Perfect solution. I was thinking the same.
I think, Negate Magic should be similar to Soul Assault and Dawnbreaker when it comes to uptime, considering the tiny effect of it. It deals no damage and does nothing against stamina. This high cost is not justified.

I don't feel like doing this.
I think they should probably just replace this skill with a /fart emote, that would be more useful.

Ok or how about just make one morph a single target ability that was exactly as powerful as it previously was but make it give the major newb debuff meaning it cant be affected by break free. :DD

I don't really feel like 75% reduced duration will make it useful at all, I'm sorry. We might as well just slot purge. I guess they're kinda different, but the effect will kinda be similar, kinda pointing out the suppression is only good for its buffs. :P

One morph with great bonus (the major mending/protection seem to be a good idea in my opinion), and one with a good aoe dot (a sort of magical pressure sphere). Like that, this ultimate will be more useful.

Flaminir wrote: »

Decrease its duration?

Those changes make it virtually a normal skill and not at all like an ultimate should be.

Though I like the fact that you've brought up that changes need to be made.

They nerfed it SO hard that I haven't actually seen a single sorc use this in months. Meteor, Stormy, Overload.... but no negates.

On the basis that they aren't going to revert it to how it used to be (Though they should... it was a great skill)... they need to add more/stronger buffs to it. A tiny amount of Spell pen is useless so may as well be removed... same goes for the laughable regen buffs that most will already have on themselves and won't stack.

MORPH 1
Add major mending & major protection. This is the defensive morph that will decrease damage taken and increase healing so will also help out sorc healers (And my word do they need some help!). It's only 12 secs long so wouldn't be OP.

MORPH 2
Add major Berserk to increase damage done by 25%. This would be the offensive morph.

I was thinking about a support skill with an equal usage/uptime to an ultimate like soul harvest (50 ultimate cost) for nightblades.

I like the idea about the buffs however i feel this would again greatly improve massive blobs more than smaller grps.

How much it costs atm idk but,

I'd say fixed cost at 100 or 150, bigger area, duration increase and affect stamina skills as well.
Also all of these should be same for NPC negates as well, such as bosses and keep/resource mages. Only then it would make sense.

Negate is still useful in pvp, a negate in a zerg before bursting him generally kill all the buff and heal for the first 5 second. 5 second, one zerg done.
But in pve, negare is just bad. Sorc can only have a decent mono dps by spamming overload LA, so negate is even worse because you loose your primary dps ability, and for heal or tank it's as bad as for dps (war horn and barrier are far more useful).

Zlater wrote: »

I've tried it so much before, I found it useful in places like DSA when things are getting hairy and you just want a bit of breathing room, otherwise not anywhere else. PvP its useless, I don't know why you think its any good @manny254 but a negate can just be rolled or Broken out of, just depends on whether you're heavy or medium armor. And yes everyone does know that because NPC's still use the old negate in cyro. I don't know where you are hearing negate is any good, because its just not the case.

Here instead of just talking about it I will give some examples.

In the first clip @ 0:40. You have to understand what is happening in it. The enemy group pushed forward, but then fell back to regroup. We shifted into full disruption to keep the enemy spread out. With the numbers advantage if the enemy was allowed to regroup and turn on us we would be dead instantly. One DK called they where leaping into the back portion of the group, and another responded by leaping into the front half. The rest of the group focused damage at this time, and the enemy responded by focusing there damage/ults. There damage is actually able to kill one of our group member and nearly kill me. Although the day is saved by a Negate used by Voss. This ensured our victory and was the "Checkmate" of this fight.

In the 4th clip @ 3:30. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 6th clip @ 4:18. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 7th clip @ 5:05. SSJ uses a defensive Negate at the tower entrance to protect and allow the group to reform. Ashirok then lays an offensive negate in the base of the tower, and the enemy groups walks into their deaths.

Edit: @ 7:40 I am able to kill an enemy group leader with the aid of an NPC negate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUlQVrMi4kM

Negate is a super power full skill, but it requires others around you to be competent. Heck one day me and Vinny duo wiped a 24 man group on a breach at Ash with you guessed it a negate.

manny254 wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

I've tried it so much before, I found it useful in places like DSA when things are getting hairy and you just want a bit of breathing room, otherwise not anywhere else. PvP its useless, I don't know why you think its any good @manny254 but a negate can just be rolled or Broken out of, just depends on whether you're heavy or medium armor. And yes everyone does know that because NPC's still use the old negate in cyro. I don't know where you are hearing negate is any good, because its just not the case.

Here instead of just talking about it I will give some examples.

In the first clip @ 0:40. You have to understand what is happening in it. The enemy group pushed forward, but then fell back to regroup. We shifted into full disruption to keep the enemy spread out. With the numbers advantage if the enemy was allowed to regroup and turn on us we would be dead instantly. One DK called they where leaping into the back portion of the group, and another responded by leaping into the front half. The rest of the group focused damage at this time, and the enemy responded by focusing there damage/ults. There damage is actually able to kill one of our group member and nearly kill me. Although the day is saved by a Negate used by Voss. This ensured our victory and was the "Checkmate" of this fight.

In the 4th clip @ 3:30. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 6th clip @ 4:18. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 7th clip @ 5:05. SSJ uses a defensive Negate at the tower entrance to protect and allow the group to reform. Ashirok then lays an offensive negate in the base of the tower, and the enemy groups walks into their deaths.

Edit: @ 7:40 I am able to kill an enemy group leader with the aid of an NPC negate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUlQVrMi4kM

Negate is a super power full skill, but it requires others around you to be competent. Heck one day me and Vinny duo wiped a 24 man group on a breach at Ash with you guessed it a negate.

I see what you mean and what you are referring to, but I'm also seeing a lot of barriers getting thrown around. And in Honesty from what I can tell its these that are really keeping your guys up for long enough. A well placed ice comet has the same effect as a negate, but you can kill stuff with it. I once wiped a whole zerg that got stuck at a keep outer door with 1 ice comet, If I had placed a negate those kills wouldn't have happened, maybe only a couple perhaps, but that would have only been afterwards.

RoyJade wrote: »

Zlater : negate is useful in group versus group situation. Wait for the first group to launch all his ulti and big attack (proxi detonation, barrier, war horn…), and launch a negate. Just one in your group. It's very, very, very useful. And you cut their heal during one or two second, that's enough to kill the majority of them.

And yes, it's very situational.

This is what I agree on, yes it has a use, but it is extremely situational, therefore you might have one person in a very organised group use it, otherwise no one uses it. And that's for very good reason.

Zlater wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

I've tried it so much before, I found it useful in places like DSA when things are getting hairy and you just want a bit of breathing room, otherwise not anywhere else. PvP its useless, I don't know why you think its any good @manny254 but a negate can just be rolled or Broken out of, just depends on whether you're heavy or medium armor. And yes everyone does know that because NPC's still use the old negate in cyro. I don't know where you are hearing negate is any good, because its just not the case.

Here instead of just talking about it I will give some examples.

In the first clip @ 0:40. You have to understand what is happening in it. The enemy group pushed forward, but then fell back to regroup. We shifted into full disruption to keep the enemy spread out. With the numbers advantage if the enemy was allowed to regroup and turn on us we would be dead instantly. One DK called they where leaping into the back portion of the group, and another responded by leaping into the front half. The rest of the group focused damage at this time, and the enemy responded by focusing there damage/ults. There damage is actually able to kill one of our group member and nearly kill me. Although the day is saved by a Negate used by Voss. This ensured our victory and was the "Checkmate" of this fight.

In the 4th clip @ 3:30. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 6th clip @ 4:18. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 7th clip @ 5:05. SSJ uses a defensive Negate at the tower entrance to protect and allow the group to reform. Ashirok then lays an offensive negate in the base of the tower, and the enemy groups walks into their deaths.

Edit: @ 7:40 I am able to kill an enemy group leader with the aid of an NPC negate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUlQVrMi4kM

Negate is a super power full skill, but it requires others around you to be competent. Heck one day me and Vinny duo wiped a 24 man group on a breach at Ash with you guessed it a negate.

I see what you mean and what you are referring to, but I'm also seeing a lot of barriers getting thrown around. And in Honesty from what I can tell its these that are really keeping your guys up for long enough. A well placed ice comet has the same effect as a negate, but you can kill stuff with it. I once wiped a whole zerg that got stuck at a keep outer door with 1 ice comet, If I had placed a negate those kills wouldn't have happened, maybe only a couple perhaps, but that would have only been afterwards.

See negate is not about YOU killing things. It is about your group killing an enemy group. You are thinking of it as only defensive because it does not deal damage, but it can cause more effective damage than any other ult. For one the silence increase the damage of any steel tornadoes in your group, but it provides your group a invaluable break in the enemy's healing to rapidly kill them. When you fight outnumbered you live and die based on how fast you can kill. It may only buy you 2-3 seconds before the enemy healers can cc break and start healing again, but if your group is strong that will be enough to turn the tide.

Also sorcs are not the only class that can use meteor so I don't know why that is what it is being compared with. I am not evaluating it based on how effective it is when someone roams around solo. This about the what really matters in Cyrodiil, and all classes have ults that are almost useless while solo.

manny254 wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

I've tried it so much before, I found it useful in places like DSA when things are getting hairy and you just want a bit of breathing room, otherwise not anywhere else. PvP its useless, I don't know why you think its any good @manny254 but a negate can just be rolled or Broken out of, just depends on whether you're heavy or medium armor. And yes everyone does know that because NPC's still use the old negate in cyro. I don't know where you are hearing negate is any good, because its just not the case.

Here instead of just talking about it I will give some examples.

In the first clip @ 0:40. You have to understand what is happening in it. The enemy group pushed forward, but then fell back to regroup. We shifted into full disruption to keep the enemy spread out. With the numbers advantage if the enemy was allowed to regroup and turn on us we would be dead instantly. One DK called they where leaping into the back portion of the group, and another responded by leaping into the front half. The rest of the group focused damage at this time, and the enemy responded by focusing there damage/ults. There damage is actually able to kill one of our group member and nearly kill me. Although the day is saved by a Negate used by Voss. This ensured our victory and was the "Checkmate" of this fight.

In the 4th clip @ 3:30. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 6th clip @ 4:18. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 7th clip @ 5:05. SSJ uses a defensive Negate at the tower entrance to protect and allow the group to reform. Ashirok then lays an offensive negate in the base of the tower, and the enemy groups walks into their deaths.

Edit: @ 7:40 I am able to kill an enemy group leader with the aid of an NPC negate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUlQVrMi4kM

Negate is a super power full skill, but it requires others around you to be competent. Heck one day me and Vinny duo wiped a 24 man group on a breach at Ash with you guessed it a negate.

I see what you mean and what you are referring to, but I'm also seeing a lot of barriers getting thrown around. And in Honesty from what I can tell its these that are really keeping your guys up for long enough. A well placed ice comet has the same effect as a negate, but you can kill stuff with it. I once wiped a whole zerg that got stuck at a keep outer door with 1 ice comet, If I had placed a negate those kills wouldn't have happened, maybe only a couple perhaps, but that would have only been afterwards.

See negate is not about YOU killing things. It is about your group killing an enemy group. You are thinking of it as only defensive because it does not deal damage, but it can cause more effective damage than any other ult. For one the silence increase the damage of any steel tornadoes in your group, but it provides your group a invaluable break in the enemy's healing to rapidly kill them. When you fight outnumbered you live and die based on how fast you can kill. It may only buy you 2-3 seconds before the enemy healers can cc break and start healing again, but if your group is strong that will be enough to turn the tide.

Also sorcs are not the only class that can use meteor so I don't know why that is what it is being compared with. I am not evaluating it based on how effective it is when someone roams around solo. This about the what really matters in Cyrodiil, and all classes have ults that are almost useless while solo.

It´s got it´s use for your large grp. That´s fine. Still there is no purpose in running negate if you don´t have atleast 12 people in your grp. That´s not the case for any other ultimate in the game.

manny254 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

I've tried it so much before, I found it useful in places like DSA when things are getting hairy and you just want a bit of breathing room, otherwise not anywhere else. PvP its useless, I don't know why you think its any good @manny254 but a negate can just be rolled or Broken out of, just depends on whether you're heavy or medium armor. And yes everyone does know that because NPC's still use the old negate in cyro. I don't know where you are hearing negate is any good, because its just not the case.

Here instead of just talking about it I will give some examples.

In the first clip @ 0:40. You have to understand what is happening in it. The enemy group pushed forward, but then fell back to regroup. We shifted into full disruption to keep the enemy spread out. With the numbers advantage if the enemy was allowed to regroup and turn on us we would be dead instantly. One DK called they where leaping into the back portion of the group, and another responded by leaping into the front half. The rest of the group focused damage at this time, and the enemy responded by focusing there damage/ults. There damage is actually able to kill one of our group member and nearly kill me. Although the day is saved by a Negate used by Voss. This ensured our victory and was the "Checkmate" of this fight.

In the 4th clip @ 3:30. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 6th clip @ 4:18. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 7th clip @ 5:05. SSJ uses a defensive Negate at the tower entrance to protect and allow the group to reform. Ashirok then lays an offensive negate in the base of the tower, and the enemy groups walks into their deaths.

Edit: @ 7:40 I am able to kill an enemy group leader with the aid of an NPC negate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUlQVrMi4kM

Negate is a super power full skill, but it requires others around you to be competent. Heck one day me and Vinny duo wiped a 24 man group on a breach at Ash with you guessed it a negate.

I see what you mean and what you are referring to, but I'm also seeing a lot of barriers getting thrown around. And in Honesty from what I can tell its these that are really keeping your guys up for long enough. A well placed ice comet has the same effect as a negate, but you can kill stuff with it. I once wiped a whole zerg that got stuck at a keep outer door with 1 ice comet, If I had placed a negate those kills wouldn't have happened, maybe only a couple perhaps, but that would have only been afterwards.

See negate is not about YOU killing things. It is about your group killing an enemy group. You are thinking of it as only defensive because it does not deal damage, but it can cause more effective damage than any other ult. For one the silence increase the damage of any steel tornadoes in your group, but it provides your group a invaluable break in the enemy's healing to rapidly kill them. When you fight outnumbered you live and die based on how fast you can kill. It may only buy you 2-3 seconds before the enemy healers can cc break and start healing again, but if your group is strong that will be enough to turn the tide.

Also sorcs are not the only class that can use meteor so I don't know why that is what it is being compared with. I am not evaluating it based on how effective it is when someone roams around solo. This about the what really matters in Cyrodiil, and all classes have ults that are almost useless while solo.

It´s got it´s use for your large grp. That´s fine. Still there is no purpose in running negate if you don´t have atleast 12 people in your grp. That´s not the case for any other ultimate in the game.

12 people ha? We have wiped full raids with small groups of people meaning like 4-6.

Also the argument about groups size effecting other ults is inaccurate. If you have a smaller group of people you are not getting the full potential power of war horn or barrier, but people still use it pal.

I´ll be bold on this one: If you could wipe a full raid of 24 people with a grp of 4 to 6 your grp would most likely have wiped them with any ultimate and negate had absolutely nothing to do with it.

We do that too with our grp.

manny254 wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

I've tried it so much before, I found it useful in places like DSA when things are getting hairy and you just want a bit of breathing room, otherwise not anywhere else. PvP its useless, I don't know why you think its any good @manny254 but a negate can just be rolled or Broken out of, just depends on whether you're heavy or medium armor. And yes everyone does know that because NPC's still use the old negate in cyro. I don't know where you are hearing negate is any good, because its just not the case.

Here instead of just talking about it I will give some examples.

In the first clip @ 0:40. You have to understand what is happening in it. The enemy group pushed forward, but then fell back to regroup. We shifted into full disruption to keep the enemy spread out. With the numbers advantage if the enemy was allowed to regroup and turn on us we would be dead instantly. One DK called they where leaping into the back portion of the group, and another responded by leaping into the front half. The rest of the group focused damage at this time, and the enemy responded by focusing there damage/ults. There damage is actually able to kill one of our group member and nearly kill me. Although the day is saved by a Negate used by Voss. This ensured our victory and was the "Checkmate" of this fight.

In the 4th clip @ 3:30. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 6th clip @ 4:18. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 7th clip @ 5:05. SSJ uses a defensive Negate at the tower entrance to protect and allow the group to reform. Ashirok then lays an offensive negate in the base of the tower, and the enemy groups walks into their deaths.

Edit: @ 7:40 I am able to kill an enemy group leader with the aid of an NPC negate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUlQVrMi4kM

Negate is a super power full skill, but it requires others around you to be competent. Heck one day me and Vinny duo wiped a 24 man group on a breach at Ash with you guessed it a negate.

I see what you mean and what you are referring to, but I'm also seeing a lot of barriers getting thrown around. And in Honesty from what I can tell its these that are really keeping your guys up for long enough. A well placed ice comet has the same effect as a negate, but you can kill stuff with it. I once wiped a whole zerg that got stuck at a keep outer door with 1 ice comet, If I had placed a negate those kills wouldn't have happened, maybe only a couple perhaps, but that would have only been afterwards.

See negate is not about YOU killing things. It is about your group killing an enemy group. You are thinking of it as only defensive because it does not deal damage, but it can cause more effective damage than any other ult. For one the silence increase the damage of any steel tornadoes in your group, but it provides your group a invaluable break in the enemy's healing to rapidly kill them. When you fight outnumbered you live and die based on how fast you can kill. It may only buy you 2-3 seconds before the enemy healers can cc break and start healing again, but if your group is strong that will be enough to turn the tide.

Also sorcs are not the only class that can use meteor so I don't know why that is what it is being compared with. I am not evaluating it based on how effective it is when someone roams around solo. This about the what really matters in Cyrodiil, and all classes have ults that are almost useless while solo.

But thats exactly it, Comet is a better skill so why would you use negate? Why would you need Negate if Comet can do something very similar and is not dodge-able, cant just be broken free of and does a tonne of damage to anyone that stand in its radius. It throws everybody off the ground, in specific situations I might run negate, but I could just spam barrier too with the free ult this makes a better defensive skill and comet a better offensive group skill. Then for single target damage you'd use Soul Assault because it cant be dodged, cloaked or reflected. Why would you use a class ult if it is inferior?

Zlater wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

I've tried it so much before, I found it useful in places like DSA when things are getting hairy and you just want a bit of breathing room, otherwise not anywhere else. PvP its useless, I don't know why you think its any good @manny254 but a negate can just be rolled or Broken out of, just depends on whether you're heavy or medium armor. And yes everyone does know that because NPC's still use the old negate in cyro. I don't know where you are hearing negate is any good, because its just not the case.

Here instead of just talking about it I will give some examples.

In the first clip @ 0:40. You have to understand what is happening in it. The enemy group pushed forward, but then fell back to regroup. We shifted into full disruption to keep the enemy spread out. With the numbers advantage if the enemy was allowed to regroup and turn on us we would be dead instantly. One DK called they where leaping into the back portion of the group, and another responded by leaping into the front half. The rest of the group focused damage at this time, and the enemy responded by focusing there damage/ults. There damage is actually able to kill one of our group member and nearly kill me. Although the day is saved by a Negate used by Voss. This ensured our victory and was the "Checkmate" of this fight.

In the 4th clip @ 3:30. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 6th clip @ 4:18. The giant South Ga zerg Walks into Vinny's Negate. Nuff said

In the 7th clip @ 5:05. SSJ uses a defensive Negate at the tower entrance to protect and allow the group to reform. Ashirok then lays an offensive negate in the base of the tower, and the enemy groups walks into their deaths.

Edit: @ 7:40 I am able to kill an enemy group leader with the aid of an NPC negate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUlQVrMi4kM

Negate is a super power full skill, but it requires others around you to be competent. Heck one day me and Vinny duo wiped a 24 man group on a breach at Ash with you guessed it a negate.

I see what you mean and what you are referring to, but I'm also seeing a lot of barriers getting thrown around. And in Honesty from what I can tell its these that are really keeping your guys up for long enough. A well placed ice comet has the same effect as a negate, but you can kill stuff with it. I once wiped a whole zerg that got stuck at a keep outer door with 1 ice comet, If I had placed a negate those kills wouldn't have happened, maybe only a couple perhaps, but that would have only been afterwards.

See negate is not about YOU killing things. It is about your group killing an enemy group. You are thinking of it as only defensive because it does not deal damage, but it can cause more effective damage than any other ult. For one the silence increase the damage of any steel tornadoes in your group, but it provides your group a invaluable break in the enemy's healing to rapidly kill them. When you fight outnumbered you live and die based on how fast you can kill. It may only buy you 2-3 seconds before the enemy healers can cc break and start healing again, but if your group is strong that will be enough to turn the tide.

Also sorcs are not the only class that can use meteor so I don't know why that is what it is being compared with. I am not evaluating it based on how effective it is when someone roams around solo. This about the what really matters in Cyrodiil, and all classes have ults that are almost useless while solo.

But thats exactly it, Comet is a better skill so why would you use negate? Why would you need Negate if Comet can do something very similar and is not dodge-able, cant just be broken free of and does a tonne of damage to anyone that stand in its radius. It throws everybody off the ground, in specific situations I might run negate, but I could just spam barrier too with the free ult this makes a better defensive skill and comet a better offensive group skill. Then for single target damage you'd use Soul Assault because it cant be dodged, cloaked or reflected. Why would you use a class ult if it is inferior?

Please explain to me how in the hell Meteor is going to stop all the healers in an entire raid from healing, and how it will also stop all there magic based dps from casting.

I suppose Meteor would also do these things. Meteor also increases you groups spell pen. Meteor also gives gets rid of all enemy ground ults. Meteor also makes everyone take more damage from steel tornado. Meteor also makes an entire group cc break. Meteor also is not counted by block, reflect, templar purge, shadowcloak, eclipse, or Ball of lightning. Meteor also gives you free cookies apparently.


You have broken my will to argue with you as it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about.