Bretons' cost reduction passive reduces a 3k mana ability by 90 mana

KenaPKK · August 2015

Yes, your average ability cast is 90 mana cheaper.

Can we make this passive relevant please? 3% is negligible.

Wing · August 2015

at this point you really don't want ZOS to try and "balance" anything, they will drop it to 1% but then if you use a fully charged heavy attack its "effectiveness will be increased by 500%!!!!" for about 2 seconds.

seriously, negligible is actually really good these days.

KenaPKK · August 2015

Sadly, this is very true.

MrGrimey · August 2015

Agreed, 3% is nothing with current champ points and the removal of soft caps

Anhedonie · August 2015

3% is a joke, agree. They could give us at least 6%.

lostavalon · August 2015

or scrap it and give a 4% increase to magic dmg ^_^

Ezareth · August 2015

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yes, your average ability cast is 90 mana cheaper.

Can we make this passive relevant please? 3% is negligible.

Actually that is incorrect. Breton Passive makes a 3K ability 81 Mana cheaper in the best possible scenario.

If you have triple V16 Legendary Magicka cost reduction enchants it only saves you 61 Magicka.

If you have 100 Champion Points in Magician it saves you 66 Magicka.

If you have both the enchants and 100 points into Magician it only saves you 49 Magicka for a 3000 (Base) cost spell.

Waylander · August 2015

Sadly this passive diminishes in effectiveness the more reduction you apply vs increasing regeneration which gets stronger the more you invest into it.

Buff Bretons.

MrGrimey · August 2015

Funny thing is, that when they did decide to buff a magicka class, it was high elves regen at the beginning of the patch. Yeah, they reverted that buff, but it just goes to show where their heads are at.

KenaPKK · August 2015

What heads? Their balance decisions lack all thought.

Alucardo · August 2015

So much for being magically gifted amirite

PlagueMonk · August 2015

Be thankful for what you got.......Us Lizards got a 2% increase to potion effects! Woohoo, talk about your imperceptible difference.

Anhedonie · August 2015

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Be thankful for what you got.......Us Lizards got a 2% increase to potion effects! Woohoo, talk about your imperceptible difference.

That's actually better. And considering last fixes it's 8% now

MrGrimey · August 2015

That's funny... Cost reduction is the only passive that gets worse with with the more cost reduction stats and champ points you get

KenaPKK · August 2015

Breton passive may reduce abilities' costs by a percentage of their base cost, calculated before reduction effects are applied.

Can anyone confirm?

Regardless, still useless.

Asayre · August 2015

The spell cost formula is

Spell cost=(Base-Flat CR)*(1+0.25*(Lvl-1)-%CR+Molag Kena[2P])*(1-Magician)

I agree that it is pretty weak

glavius · August 2015

Overall breton still has decent racials. Better than Dunmer imo if you don't use fire damage. So either leave it, or buff all other races to same level as altmer.

Rayste · August 2015

glavius wrote: »

Overall breton still has decent racials. Better than Dunmer imo if you don't use fire damage. So either leave it, or buff all other races to same level as altmer.

Hmm maybe depending on class.... but for the most part I would disagree. Dunmer has some of the better racials in the game. Lots of +stat with some nice fire resist (if it works) and damage. Naa, dunmer is a master race for DK esp.

MrGrimey · August 2015

glavius wrote: »

Overall breton still has decent racials. Better than Dunmer imo if you don't use fire damage. So either leave it, or buff all other races to same level as altmer.

How so, Dunmer has one of the best stat increases in the game 2nd to imperial

Artis · August 2015

ZOS please change the passive.

Also, look at this math... Bretons have 3% cost reduction, Altmer have what 15% or 12% magicka recovery? Aren't they supposed to be kinda balance considering that both races have 10% max magicka.
Now go open your champion system and see how much each passive is worth in champion points...
So are bretons supposed to be worse than altmer?

p.s. but ideally let each race be good in anything - give every race stamina,magicka,hp passives. Different but more or less balanced so that we could see more stamina-altmer and magicka-bosmer etc.. so people can play the race they like and choose a playstyle they like and not gimp themselves. I'm pretty sure that will be good for diversity not to mention that we will see many more argonians running around. That race is awesome but it's in trend to complain that they are underpowered => they are not popular.

RoyJade · August 2015

Altmer have 10% magicka regen, no more. 2.1.0 give then 12% regen, but 2.1.1 revert it.

The main problem is the diminishing return with glyph and cp. Every passives are boosted by gear/CP except this one.
If the breton passive was a flat reduction before other reduction or an additive reduction, it would be far more useful and not overpowered.
And I agree, boost some other race before breton, we aren't in the worst case (argonian

).

Derra · August 2015

Altmer have 9% magica regen. It heavily depends on the build you´re running if that´s more or less effective than 3% cost reduce.
Although while the altmer reg is boosted by CPs the breton 3000 spellresist behaves in the same way. With 2.1 and spellresist becoming meaningful this is an extremely underappreciated passive imho.

Any build constantly spamming abilities (on the gcd for abilities) is better off being breton up to a nonbuffed regen to about 1100 IF the altmer 4% elemental dmg is a nonissue.

Altmer is better for builds with extended periods of regeneration where no magica ability is used or build rocking extremely high magica reg to overcome the potential of ~170 magica saved every two seconds.

Ishammael · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yes, your average ability cast is 90 mana cheaper.

Can we make this passive relevant please? 3% is negligible.

Actually that is incorrect. Breton Passive makes a 3K ability 81 Mana cheaper in the best possible scenario.

If you have triple V16 Legendary Magicka cost reduction enchants it only saves you 61 Magicka.

If you have 100 Champion Points in Magician it saves you 66 Magicka.

If you have both the enchants and 100 points into Magician it only saves you 49 Magicka for a 3000 (Base) cost spell.

Summary: the 2nd worst racial passive in the game.

Ishammael · August 2015

Derra wrote: »

Altmer have 9% magica regen. It heavily depends on the build you´re running if that´s more or less effective than 3% cost reduce.
Although while the altmer reg is boosted by CPs the breton 3000 spellresist behaves in the same way. With 2.1 and spellresist becoming meaningful this is an extremely underappreciated passive imho.

Any build constantly spamming abilities (on the gcd for abilities) is better off being breton up to a nonbuffed regen to about 1100 IF the altmer 4% elemental dmg is a nonissue.

Altmer is better for builds with extended periods of regeneration where no magica ability is used or build rocking extremely high magica reg to overcome the potential of ~170 magica saved every two seconds.

It only takes 1000 base mana regen for the altmer 9% passive to be better than 3% cost reduction. If you're not at base 1000 regen, you're probably doing something wrong. The key which makes the Altmer passive so much better is that is continues to scale as your mana regen increases.

ColtPython · August 2015

Well crap. I wish I had this math before lvling my Breton.

ColtPython · August 2015

If I had realized how negligible this was, then I might have just gone with Argonian like I really wanted

Ezareth · August 2015

Asayre wrote: »

The spell cost formula is

Spell cost=(Base-Flat CR)*(1+0.25*(Lvl-1)-%CR+Molag Kena[2P])*(1-Magician)

I agree that it is pretty weak

This is not correct.

There is a .877% "Nerf" in the actual formula that is multiplicative with all non-CP spell cost reduction (which is additive with each other) which includes the Breton Passive. This went live in a 1.6

The Breton 3% cost reduction is actually only ever %2.631 and that is further reduced by the CP magician percentage and the Magicka cost reduction enchant percentage of the base cost.

Ezareth · August 2015

Derra wrote: »

Altmer have 9% magica regen. It heavily depends on the build you´re running if that´s more or less effective than 3% cost reduce.
Although while the altmer reg is boosted by CPs the breton 3000 spellresist behaves in the same way. With 2.1 and spellresist becoming meaningful this is an extremely underappreciated passive imho.

Any build constantly spamming abilities (on the gcd for abilities) is better off being breton up to a nonbuffed regen to about 1100 IF the altmer 4% elemental dmg is a nonissue.

Altmer is better for builds with extended periods of regeneration where no magica ability is used or build rocking extremely high magica reg to overcome the potential of ~170 magica saved every two seconds.

No, I've done the math before (I'd hope to not have to search for it in the forums).

There is absolutely no scenario where the Breton Passive is better than the Altmer Magic regen and in most cases the Altmer regen beats the Breton passive by a factor of 2:1 or more sadly.

This is why I was a bit surprised (even being an Altmer) that they proposed buffing that along with the Bosmer passives. That was probably my biggest WTF balance change moment in the whole original patch notes.

Ezareth · August 2015

Here is my quote from that thread:

Ezareth wrote: »

djyrb wrote: »

@Ezareth - thanks for posting those numbers, it's a splash of cold water in the face for me, with 3 VR14 Breton characters. I liked to try out healing with all classes, so their cost reduction racial, albeit minor even before 1.6, was seen as an advantage for resource sustain, which is critical for a healer.

I always knew that Altmer would make the better DPS sorc, but I figured Breton would be able to have a smoother transition between roles, yet still be a viable magicka DPS.

However, in light of that stealth nerf, would you say that the Altmer combat recovery bonus > Breton cost reduction for a healer as well?

It depends on your existing Regen. In my case it works out to 211 magicka regen and will eventually be worth 224 Magicka regen.

Since the global cooldown on spells is exactly 1 second based upon my existing regen of 211 it works out to exactly 105.5 Cost reduction in the absolute best possible situation for cost reduction. Even in the best case scenario that I outlined above the Breton Racial saves you 81 magicka a cast.

The reality is practically no one is playing under that best case scenario and you're almost never casting spells continuously every 1 second for long. This means that the 9% Magicka regen is actually far better than the Breton racial any way you look at it, I'd say by a factor of 2-3 or more if I had to estimate use-case scenarios.

byrom101b16_ESO · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Altmer have 9% magica regen. It heavily depends on the build you´re running if that´s more or less effective than 3% cost reduce.
Although while the altmer reg is boosted by CPs the breton 3000 spellresist behaves in the same way. With 2.1 and spellresist becoming meaningful this is an extremely underappreciated passive imho.

Any build constantly spamming abilities (on the gcd for abilities) is better off being breton up to a nonbuffed regen to about 1100 IF the altmer 4% elemental dmg is a nonissue.

Altmer is better for builds with extended periods of regeneration where no magica ability is used or build rocking extremely high magica reg to overcome the potential of ~170 magica saved every two seconds.

No, I've done the math before (I'd hope to not have to search for it in the forums).

There is absolutely no scenario where the Breton Passive is better than the Altmer Magic regen and in most cases the Altmer regen beats the Breton passive by a factor of 2:1 or more sadly.

This is why I was a bit surprised (even being an Altmer) that they proposed buffing that along with the Bosmer passives. That was probably my biggest WTF balance change moment in the whole original patch notes.

Indeed - the Breton passive is far worse than the Altmer ones. The spell resistance is also terrible when compared to the extra damage Altmer get as well.

The reduction should be raised to 6% at least, and the spell resistance changed to 5% damage reduction vs. magick and elemental damage.

SorataArisugawa · August 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Altmer have 9% magica regen. It heavily depends on the build you´re running if that´s more or less effective than 3% cost reduce.
Although while the altmer reg is boosted by CPs the breton 3000 spellresist behaves in the same way. With 2.1 and spellresist becoming meaningful this is an extremely underappreciated passive imho.

Any build constantly spamming abilities (on the gcd for abilities) is better off being breton up to a nonbuffed regen to about 1100 IF the altmer 4% elemental dmg is a nonissue.

Altmer is better for builds with extended periods of regeneration where no magica ability is used or build rocking extremely high magica reg to overcome the potential of ~170 magica saved every two seconds.

It only takes 1000 base mana regen for the altmer 9% passive to be better than 3% cost reduction. If you're not at base 1000 regen, you're probably doing something wrong. The key which makes the Altmer passive so much better is that is continues to scale as your mana regen increases.

Why should I get 1000 base reg? I would never take this stat from setbonus or at my jewelry. I will allways take SD or magica. Everybody will do this. Without setbonus or jewelryglyphs you wont get higher than 900 base reg.

So which passiv is better???