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What's the beef with champion points?
iord_stryker
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Ok so I've been playing since console launch just got my second champion point.as a pve player I think the champion system is awesome. It gives a means of progression while bringing out vet Lvls.yet I see numerous posts of people complaining about it. So what's the problem?nhow does it ruin the game as I've heard it said?
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SkinnyDG✭✭✭Let me start! Players that have more free time to spend in the game become stronger than others that don't have as much free time. The players that don't have that kind of free time still want to be as strong as the players that do have free time.10
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Spliffo✭✭✭✭Simply they aren't ruining the game, those people complaining are just lazy and expect to be as powerfull as someone who has invested more time into the game without having to put in the effort and time themselves.
IMO they should earn it not be given it
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Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭I can agree with people deserve to be stronger with more time given to the game. But
Basically "we will call it 1 CP per hour of grinding shall we?" Think you can knock out 1 CP every 45 but whatever..
You will need to grind SIXTY SIX DAYS not hours 66 actual days of your life to reach 1600cp. -max.
Thing is MMO's survive by the number of new players being equal to or greater than the people leaving the game.. This CP system means any "new player" buying/joining the game will NEVER be able to play on a competitive level therefore no new players will ever want to join this game 6-9 months from now.
Oh and YES those 25% on stats is a huge advantage. Some people will come in here defending it, but the fact remains.
I for one have the time to grind.. I am just not happy with the way CP is for the simple fact that the CP system is death sentence to this games population.Edited by Funkopotamus on August 28, 2015 2:43AMAnything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington4 -
SkinnyDG✭✭✭It's obvious this game was not thought out very well and/or ideas where not implemented well. CP isn't the problem, veteran ranks rant the problem. To grind or not to grind, to kill pigs or not to kill pigs; none of this is the "real" problem. The real problem is we all watched some company butcher, and I mean butcher, an elder scrolls game. So bad they butchered it that we, as a forum, tell people to "not expect an elder scrolls game" when they're considering this for purchase.1
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Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭The real problem is we all watched some company butcher, and I mean butcher, an elder scrolls game. So bad they butchered it that we, as a forum, tell people to "not expect an elder scrolls game" when they're considering this for purchase.
We could all just mail Robert Altman an envelope with a card inside that said one word.
WHY?
lol
Edited by Funkopotamus on August 28, 2015 2:57AMAnything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The problem is only for certain players who don't want other players to be stronger than they are. Clearly there is no problem with CP for those who aren't comparing with other players.
There are typically 2 reasons why competitive types don't want other characters stronger than their own character:
1. They don't want anyone else more powerful than them in PvP.
2. They want to do trials and are concerned that (a) they won't be taken in a group due to lack of CP or (b) they won't get a top time due to lack of CP.
If you aren't trying to compete with others, it is hard to see a problem with CP.2 -
Mitchblue✭✭✭✭I don't know much about CP but I'd think one problem with be a player gets 500 CP, starts an alt - alt gets 500 CP. At level 1. Or 10, PVP at the lower levels could be a bit unfair. Over players who don't have a vr character.Edited by Mitchblue on August 28, 2015 3:02AMAnyone else rooting for Molag Bal?0
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Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The problem is some players have 700+ CP already and that means that say the expert skills in the atronach tree can give a 30% or 40% damage to light and heavy attacks. Now put that in the other skills such as crit, penetration, recovery and so on.1 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭
I for one an option 3.DaveMoeDee wrote: »The problem is only for certain players who don't want other players to be stronger than they are. Clearly there is no problem with CP for those who aren't comparing with other players.
There are typically 2 reasons why competitive types don't want other characters stronger than their own character:
1. They don't want anyone else more powerful than them in PvP.
2. They want to do trials and are concerned that (a) they won't be taken in a group due to lack of CP or (b) they won't get a top time due to lack of CP.
If you aren't trying to compete with others, it is hard to see a problem with CP.
I have enjoyed PvP in every MMO since Asherons Call.
I DO NOT like feeling like I am trolling another player and killing them simply because I have the CP.
Anyone that knows me in game will tell you I LOVE fair fights. Just the other night a group of four of us ran around fighting 1v1's and even sent a few messages to the other players to get a group together and 4v4 and watch 1v1s and winner take on the next guy.
I simply just do not agree with the CP system..
Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭iord_stryker wrote: »Ok so I've been playing since console launch just got my second champion point.as a pve player I think the champion system is awesome. It gives a means of progression while bringing out vet Lvls.yet I see numerous posts of people complaining about it. So what's the problem?nhow does it ruin the game as I've heard it said?
The Champion System IS awesome. There are tons of players happily grinding away in PvE zones to improve their stats and progress their characters.
As usual, almost all the complaining you see on the forums comes from PvP players, who are always certain that they were killed because the other player had an (unfair) advantage, not because they suck, LOL. PvP players don't like the CS because they would rather ride around on their horses all day than grind mobs.
Edited by Emma_Overload on August 28, 2015 3:05AM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE5 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I would have rather seen a "Champion" skill tree become unlocked with VR1, that has just a few select passives available. You can unlock the new passives by gaining vet experience as normal. Of course these wouldn't be account wide like CPs, so it wouldn't affect non-vet PVP. And being a skill tree with limited passives it wouldn't really advance people no-lifing champion points to be above anyone else, while still giving you a reward for working your way through Veteran.0 -
TheDarkShadow✭✭✭✭✭
✭CP is not a bad thing and not ruin the game. The problem is they need to make more leagues in PvP base on CP rather than Vet rank. Or better, just throw those "veterant ranks" away, everything (gears, pvp leagues...) base on CP.1 -
Mighty_oakk✭✭✭✭✭Its just the goto excuse for people who die alot in pvp. Less then 0.1% of the player base has over 300cps yet according to these forums pvp is unplayable unless you have 300+ cps.2 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭Mighty_oakk wrote: »Its just the goto excuse for people who die alot in pvp. Less then 0.1% of the player base has over 300cps yet according to these forums pvp is unplayable unless you have 300+ cps.
Can I see where you are getting that number from?
Or would it stink to bad if you tried to show me?Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington3 -
ObsidianMichi✭✭✭If you hear the forums tell it:
"There was once a time of peace and tranquility, when all things were equal and all communities lived together in harmony. The gankers loved the other gankers, and they were killable by the masses. The vampires coexisted well with others and they were never meta'd to Dragon Knights. One shots were not a thing. The PvP community had not complaints nor were forced to PvE to gain their advantages in AvA combat. All were killable except the Emperor, who was nigh on with enough men of skill. And never were the newbies ganked by players of veteran years, for everyone stayed within their lanes and took no advantages over others. PvP was a place of (horrible battles) eternal peace. Yet, all that changed when the CHAMPION SYSTEM CAME!"2 -
Spliffo✭✭✭✭Why not just ask ZoS to give us all maxed characters from the creation screen. It seems like that would more suited to all of your style of play3
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nordsavage✭✭✭✭✭It completely wrecked game balance, is easily abused and it is a ploy to sell exp scrolls and other consumables. CP is not in place to benefit the player in the least bit. Shoulda kept the soft caps.I didn't choose tank life, tank life chose me.1 -
phillyproduct✭✭✭Ps4 player here... Im no mathematical savant but even if someone is hitting 30percent harder 30% of 10k is 3k so 13k isnt that bad versus the 10k you do if that guy has been playing a year longer than you. Sounds like a people using this as a excuseCP-750 orc nighblade ebonheart NA
Dark elf sorc ebonheart
Orc templar
Dark elf Dragon knight
Redguard warden
Vet CoA saved the day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S616Dhc2Yu42 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheDarkShadow wrote: »CP is not a bad thing and not ruin the game. The problem is they need to make more leagues in PvP base on CP rather than Vet rank. Or better, just throw those "veterant ranks" away, everything (gears, pvp leagues...) base on CP.
Well, the Vet ranks are going away someday. At least that was the plan. Of course, then ZoS digs themselves in deeper with V16 gear... which, actually makes me a little worried that, long term, the V16 gear grind is going to burn a lot of people when the Vet ranks go away.Let me start! Players that have more free time to spend in the game become stronger than others that don't have as much free time. The players that don't have that kind of free time still want to be as strong as the players that do have free time.Simply they aren't ruining the game, those people complaining are just lazy and expect to be as powerfull as someone who has invested more time into the game without having to put in the effort and time themselves.
IMO they should earn it not be given it
Yep. Also, they try to invent the numbers actually being stronger than they really are... which, you know, will sound hilarious coming from me a second from now.Scyantific wrote: »Not enough diminishing returns. Simple as that.
Yeah. Right now, 10 points get you 20% up. Which... I mean, that's a start, but really, it needs to be something like each point pushes you 10% from where you are to where you are to the final bonus. So your first point on a 25% star should be +2.5%, your second one would be 2.25%, 2.03%, 1.82%... ect. Instead, especially on the 13% stars, it's nearly linear in places. Front ending the first 50 or so stars for the biggest push would probably be a good idea. That said the first couple hundred aren't actually that hard to come by.
I mean, I've been busy and the free time I've had was spent more on leveling non-vets since the system hit (with a side of having mostly burned out PvE content on my main before CP... screwing myself slightly in the transfer), and... I've still got over 100 now.
EDIT: I just ran the numbers, on a lark. 10% would actually cause problems, where above 70 points you couldn't really see the value change. However, on a two place decimal, 5% would actually give a nice visible curve up to 95 points.Edited by starkerealm on August 28, 2015 3:33AM0 -
jkemmery✭✭✭✭Funkopotamus wrote: »Mighty_oakk wrote: »Its just the goto excuse for people who die alot in pvp. Less then 0.1% of the player base has over 300cps yet according to these forums pvp is unplayable unless you have 300+ cps.
Can I see where you are getting that number from?
Or would it stink to bad if you tried to show me?
It's not unplayable under 300, I only have like 115 and I do OK in PVP.
The issue for me is what has been stated before ... it forces newer players to grind out cp just to keep up, which many of us feel is bad for the game in the long run. That and there really isn't very good balance between the classes, which they keep "tweaking".
So for someone new, PVP can become frustrating, which could lead them to eventually just give up and go somewhere else, which will end the game.
Also, like others who don't like the system, it rewards time in game more than pure skill. So you get people who have no real life and it strokes their little egos making them annoying to play with.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So for someone new, PVP can become frustrating, which could lead them to eventually just give up and go somewhere else, which will end the game.
Actually, that's kind of the issue with PvP in general with this game. It's not CP, because this was going on way before CP was a part of the game. It's just that PvP heavily favors players who have experience... let's just call it "exploiting" and be done with it. Players who have experience exploiting the game mechanics. CP doesn't really factor into their behavior. Just like it wasn't the V14 gold gear before 1.6 that made players impossible to kill. Or the batswarm emperors before them.1 -
Dru1076✭✭✭✭The cp system is crucial to the future of ESO.
Sadly, it could also be a major stumbling block to attracting new players, which could rob the game of said future.
A mate of mine quit the game the moment he read about ESO going F2P. I thought he was being silly. But since then I have learned about the free to play business model and it isn't pretty for casual or new players. I totally understand now what he meant when he said it would spoil the game. I'm not going into details here, but you guys should go see where casual and new players fit in the basic F2P model.
I am trying hard to believe ZOS have a more idealised plan in mind, and there has been some evidence of that. It certainly is not the worst example and that's for sure. But things like the XP boosters, and dragging of feet when it comes to things like cp free campaigns for PVP make it impossible for me to say ZOS are without question avoiding the basic free to play model.
Cp's are needed to keep the core players happy, but not everyone who wants to play Elder Scrolls can take advantage of a system that is based around how much time you can play. Oh... And the majority of people concerned about this are not too lazy to grind out points as some keep saying. i believe that they probably would much rather be doing that than going to their day jobs.Ask not what your sweetroll can do for you....0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What's the beef with CP?
Well, it does create a bit of a power gap for time played. Outside of that, it's mostly people that aren't very good using it as an excuse to blame their performance and accusing people better than them of having thousands of CP. Sorry to say, but it's true.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The cp system is crucial to the future of ESO.
Sadly, it could also be a major stumbling block to attracting new players, which could rob the game of said future.
A mate of mine quit the game the moment he read about ESO going F2P. I thought he was being silly. But since then I have learned about the free to play business model and it isn't pretty for casual or new players. I totally understand now what he meant when he said it would spoil the game. I'm not going into details here, but you guys should go see where casual and new players fit in the basic F2P model.
ESO's going free to play? Really. Damn.
Ooooh, wait, you mean this? No, this is not free to play. Under a F2P game you could expect something like a hard cap per day of grindable CP progression (say 10k XP) while CP could be outright purchased in the store for real money, without affecting the grind cap at all. You'd also expect to see something like a flat bonus per point, so instead of armor being on diminishing returns, you'd see something like a flat +1% to armor per point...
You could also expect the XP requirements for higher CR characters to scale up. Because, if you're buying CP, you get a direct advantage. In a really vicious system, the CR system wouldn't even be capped. You could just keep buying CP until you had to file for Chapter 11 protections. Also, and this is important, you'd stick the CR out, front and center, to tell people, "hey, pay money for this, and you could be this awesome. Who cares if your next CP will take 15 hours of grinding spread over the entire week, you can pay us $1.25 and get it now."
Yes, I have had horrific F2P transition experiences, why do you ask?I am trying hard to believe ZOS have a more idealised plan in mind, and there has been some evidence of that. It certainly is not the worst example and that's for sure. But things like the XP boosters, and dragging of feet when it comes to things like cp free campaigns for PVP make it impossible for me to say ZOS are without question avoiding the basic free to play model.
You're getting a CP free campaign. I mean, I still think CP should be handled like Dark Souls II's soul memory, so you're permanently bracketed in PvP based on your CR, and not allowed out of your box. But, again, it's not the player with +12% physical damage I'm worried about. It's the part where they've been doing this longer than a newbie, so when they hit Blackwater Blade, it honestly doesn't matter if they have access to their CP or not, they can still vastly outclass other players using high end crafted gear and consumables, that a newbie won't yet have access to, and can't afford to obtain (much less burn).
Once the Vet ranks go away, and the only option will be CP free or not, things will actually get worse. Because the one "safe zone" that newbies have now, will be even more decimated by the players will now be able to bring their mains with end game gear in and mess up the newbies.Cp's are needed to keep the core players happy, but not everyone who wants to play Elder Scrolls can take advantage of a system that is based around how much time you can play. Oh... And the majority of people concerned about this are not too lazy to grind out points as some keep saying. i believe that they probably would much rather be doing that than going to their day jobs.
Well, who doesn't want to play a game all day instead of doing their job? Like I said earlier, the diminishing returns should be steeper, so you actually get up to speed faster. But as many people have pointed out, once you hit ~300cp, it's all downhill from here. The value of each point drops sharply beyond that point.0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭Funkopotamus wrote: »Mighty_oakk wrote: »Its just the goto excuse for people who die alot in pvp. Less then 0.1% of the player base has over 300cps yet according to these forums pvp is unplayable unless you have 300+ cps.
Can I see where you are getting that number from?
Or would it stink to bad if you tried to show me?
It's not unplayable under 300, I only have like 115 and I do OK in PVP.
The issue for me is what has been stated before ... it forces newer players to grind out cp just to keep up, which many of us feel is bad for the game in the long run. That and there really isn't very good balance between the classes, which they keep "tweaking".
So for someone new, PVP can become frustrating, which could lead them to eventually just give up and go somewhere else, which will end the game.
Also, like others who don't like the system, it rewards time in game more than pure skill. So you get people who have no real life and it strokes their little egos making them annoying to play with.
On the same page with you.
I do OK in PvP with around the same number of CPs. But I don't kid myself and say, "'skill' will allow me to beat players with 300+ (or insert other random large number)," or "If you have no CPs and have skill you can beat me." Laughable.
What I will at least respect is folks' honesty in admitting CPs give them a definite advantage. The problem is most high-CP types don't.
Disabling the grass may improve performance.3 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭What's the beef with CP?
Well, it does create a bit of a power gap for time played. Outside of that, it's mostly people that aren't very good using it as an excuse to blame their performance and accusing people better than them of having thousands of CP. Sorry to say, but it's true.
That is the typical argument. But here's a question for you:
Does your having higher CPs than someone else give you an advantage over them?
Disabling the grass may improve performance.0
