What are the downsides for changing races?

NovaMarx · August 2015

There is no real downside to race change. Or class change, for that matter. It is mostly about build.

There is no doubt in my (or anyone's) mind that it will be a possibility in the future (along with name change, barbershop, and alliance change) as it would be a gold mine for ZOS.

However, there should (and hopefully will) be limitations. Like, unless you have the Imperial Edition, you can't change to Imperial race or choose any race in any alliance, unless you have this feature already as well. And there should either be a cooldown after use, or limit to how many times you can change a character's race/class.

Junkogen · August 2015

If there's FOTM then the passives aren't balanced and ZOS should be doing something anyway. If they truly balance them, then people will change races because they actually like the look or passives of the other race better, not simply to be the most powerful race.

ChibiMechaX78 · August 2015

Junkogen wrote: »

If there's FOTM then the passives aren't balanced and ZOS should be doing something anyway. If they truly balance them, then people will change races because they actually like the look or passives of the other race better, not simply to be the most powerful race.

Would it be a stretch to suggest that, if we are allowed to ability to change our race, we are forced to keep the passives from our original race? That way we don't have people switching from race to race when race passives get a little tweaked.

This works for the people who simply want to change the look rather than the passives, and this solution ignores the people who would want to change their race to gain different passives to only be left with the only option of making a new character.

I understand that this solution wouldn't make sense from the lore perspective, but it's a solution to one problem nonetheless.
While also giving ZOS a new purchaseable item on the Crown Store for them to make money.

KerinKor · August 2015

Baconfat79 wrote: »

What kind of downsides ARE there for proper verb conjugation?

A degree of literacy not found in some forum posters.

KerinKor · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

The only downside I can think of is that you may end up with loads of people swapping to whatever the flavour of the month is for the best race.

And therein lies the fundamental reason race change should never be implemented.

1) The side of the game most affected by FoTM-itis is PVP.

2) Race determines faction unless you have the EP or AP and clearly race change shouldn't give you a perk you otherwise don't have.

Thus race change would be used by PVP FoTMers to change FACTION thereby destroying any remnants of plans ZOS may have to try to balance faction imbalance.

Junkogen · August 2015

ChibiMechaX78 wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

If there's FOTM then the passives aren't balanced and ZOS should be doing something anyway. If they truly balance them, then people will change races because they actually like the look or passives of the other race better, not simply to be the most powerful race.

Would it be a stretch to suggest that, if we are allowed to ability to change our race, we are forced to keep the passives from our original race? That way we don't have people switching from race to race when race passives get a little tweaked.

This works for the people who simply want to change the look rather than the passives, and this solution ignores the people who would want to change their race to gain different passives to only be left with the only option of making a new character.

I understand that this solution wouldn't make sense from the lore perspective, but it's a solution to one problem nonetheless.
While also giving ZOS a new purchaseable item on the Crown Store for them to make money.

No, I think people will definitely want to switch races to get other passives, as well. I don't see anything wrong with that. The game is long. You might start out as a magicka Nightblade and figure out down the road that you'd rather be stamina-based, but you chose a Breton. I don't see what's wrong with optimizing your play style. Again, if ZOS would balance the passives, then it's not an issue of jumping around constantly to the best race. Instead, it's about not having to start over just to better match your playstyle.

The one downside I see is that ZOS sets the price too high and gouges us. It's kind of annoying, actually, that they've changed the game so much and don't already allow race changes. That's not fair, either. As an Argonian NB, I know all too well about getting screwed royally by their changes.

Enodoc · August 2015

Elsir wrote: »

You can notice that your racial XP is not in line with your actual XP. Not entirely sure what causes this to happen but that is why I would imagine a racial change would be treated like the werewolf/vampire system and you'd have to earn XP yet again for that new line.

I've never seen that happen, and I thought that the Race line was always aligned with your level. It would be interesting if you had to level up through your "new race" though, and earn all the new passives from scratch.

ChibiMechaX78 wrote: »

Would it be a stretch to suggest that, if we are allowed to ability to change our race, we are forced to keep the passives from our original race? That way we don't have people switching from race to race when race passives get a little tweaked.

This works for the people who simply want to change the look rather than the passives, and this solution ignores the people who would want to change their race to gain different passives to only be left with the only option of making a new character.

I understand that this solution wouldn't make sense from the lore perspective, but it's a solution to one problem nonetheless.
While also giving ZOS a new purchaseable item on the Crown Store for them to make money.

I think changing the passives is "the point" of having a race change option though.

When race changes are implemented, all I would say is that they have to be fair. You can only change to Imperial if you have the Imperial Edition; and if you don't have Any Race, Any Alliance, you can only change to other races in your alliance.

vamp_emily · August 2015

I don't think there is a downside, BUT ZOS will need to charge for this service.

ChibiMechaX78 · August 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Elsir wrote: »

You can notice that your racial XP is not in line with your actual XP. Not entirely sure what causes this to happen but that is why I would imagine a racial change would be treated like the werewolf/vampire system and you'd have to earn XP yet again for that new line.

I've never seen that happen, and I thought that the Race line was always aligned with your level. It would be interesting if you had to level up through your "new race" though, and earn all the new passives from scratch.

ChibiMechaX78 wrote: »

Would it be a stretch to suggest that, if we are allowed to ability to change our race, we are forced to keep the passives from our original race? That way we don't have people switching from race to race when race passives get a little tweaked.

This works for the people who simply want to change the look rather than the passives, and this solution ignores the people who would want to change their race to gain different passives to only be left with the only option of making a new character.

I understand that this solution wouldn't make sense from the lore perspective, but it's a solution to one problem nonetheless.
While also giving ZOS a new purchaseable item on the Crown Store for them to make money.

I think changing the passives is "the point" of having a race change option though.

When race changes are implemented, all I would say is that they have to be fair. You can only change to Imperial if you have the Imperial Edition; and if you don't have Any Race, Any Alliance, you can only change to other races in your alliance.

"The point" of a race change depends on the person really. One wants passives, one wants a fresh different look, one may want both. Plus I'd imagine they'd allow us to tweak not only race, but tweak your character's features as well otherwise there would be no point for the ones who change just to look different.

As far as the Any Race, Any Alliance feature, I'd be more inclined to actually buy it if my race was something I could change mid-game.

UrQuan · August 2015

KerinKor wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

The only downside I can think of is that you may end up with loads of people swapping to whatever the flavour of the month is for the best race.

And therein lies the fundamental reason race change should never be implemented.

1) The side of the game most affected by FoTM-itis is PVP.

2) Race determines faction unless you have the EP or AP and clearly race change shouldn't give you a perk you otherwise don't have.

Thus race change would be used by PVP FoTMers to change FACTION thereby destroying any remnants of plans ZOS may have to try to balance faction imbalance.

Wait what? That's quite a leap you've made there... Nobody in this thread is talking about whether faction changes should be allowed. If race change was put in place I would expect that you wouldn't be able to change your faction, and that you would therefore be restricted as far as which race you could change to based on which races are available to you in your faction. So if you just have the base game, you can only swap to one of the other 2 races in your faction. If you have Imperial Edition you can swap to one of the other 2 races in your faction or Imperial. If you have Explorer Pack or Adventurer Pack you can switch to any race aside from Imperial. If you have Imperial Edition and Explorer Pack or Adventurer Pack you can switch to any.

That's the way it would make sense for it to be implemented as far as I'm concerned.

JamilaRaj · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

The only downside I can think of is that you may end up with loads of people swapping to whatever the flavour of the month is for the best race.

Personally it wouldn't affect me because I don't really care what other people do with their characters' races, and I wouldn't even consider changing the race of any of my own characters.

*nods* Yes, what other players do or don't do, really won't affect the rest of us playing. It won't be as if they'll have an option to change to a far 'better' race that is only available through the crown store.

I could see how PVP folks might be concerned about people swapping to FotM races. Wouldn't make any difference to me though.

I can imagine PvE people kicking other PvE people out of groups for not having the right skin colour for a role they are to fill, and, ironically, not on RP grounds. Nothing PvP-specific here.

Leeric · August 2015

It does decide what faction you fight for unless you have all alliances unlocked. So that would be an issue. Beyond that it wouldn't really matter.

Athas24 · August 2015

Baconfat79 wrote: »

What kind of downsides ARE there for proper verb conjugation?

BWAHAHA

ChibiMechaX78 · August 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Elsir wrote: »

You can notice that your racial XP is not in line with your actual XP. Not entirely sure what causes this to happen but that is why I would imagine a racial change would be treated like the werewolf/vampire system and you'd have to earn XP yet again for that new line.

I've never seen that happen, and I thought that the Race line was always aligned with your level. It would be interesting if you had to level up through your "new race" though, and earn all the new passives from scratch.

ChibiMechaX78 wrote: »

Would it be a stretch to suggest that, if we are allowed to ability to change our race, we are forced to keep the passives from our original race? That way we don't have people switching from race to race when race passives get a little tweaked.

This works for the people who simply want to change the look rather than the passives, and this solution ignores the people who would want to change their race to gain different passives to only be left with the only option of making a new character.

I understand that this solution wouldn't make sense from the lore perspective, but it's a solution to one problem nonetheless.
While also giving ZOS a new purchaseable item on the Crown Store for them to make money.

I think changing the passives is "the point" of having a race change option though.

When race changes are implemented, all I would say is that they have to be fair. You can only change to Imperial if you have the Imperial Edition; and if you don't have Any Race, Any Alliance, you can only change to other races in your alliance.

There could be something else ZOS could do instead of simply just adding a item that allows us to change our races which would open the FOTM can of worms that nobody wants to open.

It'd take more work, but it would add more reward, and a gold sink.

What I was on thinking on while I was at work, you could make the races costumes. Costumes that you would be rewards from the achievements in the game.

I'd recommend something that takes much effort, but not entirely ludicrous. For example, add a race costume to the achievement where you complete all the quests in Reapers March which would unlock Kahajit race costume. Auridon quest completion would unlock altmer, Stonefalls quest completion would unlock argonian and so on.

That way it would take considerable effort and time. It's a reward. Then once you unlock them you get a free chance to edit the look of the costume by editing the body structure, features, etc. However afterwards if you want to edit it again you go to a tailor or some special merchant that would allow you to edit your costume for about so much gold like maybe 1000-2000
gold.

It doesn't disregard lore, because it's a costume.... A very real looking costume lol, and plus you have to go through considerable effort to unlock all of them. Having to experience all the alliances too and complete all the quests in the appropriate areas to unlock them all except imperial.

The one problem arises with this is that people who have already done this wouldn't have to do really anything. They would just unlock them right off since they already have done it. Also this means this wouldn't be a crown store purchaseable...... Or could it? Also this would require more effort.

We could potentially make all of the races costumes that you can edit for later.

Perhaps that over just a simple race change item.

Skiserony · August 2015

A lot of races not being played anymore, that's why we need racial balance most importantly.

However, I don't think everyone will swap around with races every month or so because it will cost some money, and I don't expect it to be 5$.

The cons do not outweigh the pros for me.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2015

The only downside I see was hinted at above. Where did all the Argonians go? That being said, I don't see many Argonians anyways...

I would not say there is a FoTM for races, but most people that are trying to min/max keep to a handful of races. Stamina users typically opt for Redguard or Imperial, Magic uses Like Brenton or Altmer, Magic DKs specifically like Dunmer, etc. I think there has already been a shift towards more of these races with people simply re-rolling, but that might be accelerated.

I ultimately think it's a good thing, especially if they are changing the passives that existed when people selected the race in the first place. I am not sure I would run out and change any of my characters, but I don't think the option hurts anything.