Junkogen wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert

Description of Argonians:

"Argonians are a beast race of reptilian humanoids consistently portrayed throughout the Elder Scrolls series of games as intelligent, quick and agile, tending towards the in-game character classes of the mage and the thief. Within the ES world, Argonians inhabit the swampy inhospitable region of Black Marsh, home to sentient trees called the Hist, which are worshiped by Argonians and play an essential part in their religion and life cycle. Years of defending their homeland has made them masters of guerrilla warfare. They can breathe underwater and are resistant to poison and diseases."

Aside from the disease and poison resistance, how do Argonians in ESO resemble that description? Answer is, they don't. Please redesign the racial passives to redeem yourselves in the eyes of the void-lord Sithis. Seriously, the "tweaks" made for the Imperial City DLC aren't even Band-aids. They're insults to true Argonian fans. You need to get rid of the potion and healing received passives and give us something more universally useful and resembling the aforementioned description of Argonians.

Eric Wrobel must be stopped...and, @ZOS_RichLambert , you have the power to stop him. You would be a hero to Argonians throughout Tamriel. You're name would be passed down through generations of Argonians as the savior our race. Please, help us. You're our only hope. Bring this madness to an end.

Well to be honest I actually enjoy the potion passive. Getting a little more from a potion has help me a lot in different situations.

Junkogen wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert

Description of Argonians:

"Argonians are a beast race of reptilian humanoids consistently portrayed throughout the Elder Scrolls series of games as intelligent, quick and agile, tending towards the in-game character classes of the mage and the thief. Within the ES world, Argonians inhabit the swampy inhospitable region of Black Marsh, home to sentient trees called the Hist, which are worshiped by Argonians and play an essential part in their religion and life cycle. Years of defending their homeland has made them masters of guerrilla warfare. They can breathe underwater and are resistant to poison and diseases."

Aside from the disease and poison resistance, how do Argonians in ESO resemble that description? Answer is, they don't. Please redesign the racial passives to redeem yourselves in the eyes of the void-lord Sithis. Seriously, the "tweaks" made for the Imperial City DLC aren't even Band-aids. They're insults to true Argonian fans. You need to get rid of the potion and healing received passives and give us something more universally useful and resembling the aforementioned description of Argonians.

Eric Wrobel must be stopped...and, @ZOS_RichLambert , you have the power to stop him. You would be a hero to Argonians throughout Tamriel. You're name would be passed down through generations of Argonians as the savior our race. Please, help us. You're our only hope. Bring this madness to an end.

Well to be honest I actually enjoy the potion passive. Getting a little more from a potion has help me a lot in different situations.

You wouldn't rather just have a straight up regen or max stat increase? A potion is on a cool down and isn't up all the time. It's significantly disadvantaged compared to other passives that are always active.

Well

Junkogen wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert

Description of Argonians:

"Argonians are a beast race of reptilian humanoids consistently portrayed throughout the Elder Scrolls series of games as intelligent, quick and agile, tending towards the in-game character classes of the mage and the thief. Within the ES world, Argonians inhabit the swampy inhospitable region of Black Marsh, home to sentient trees called the Hist, which are worshiped by Argonians and play an essential part in their religion and life cycle. Years of defending their homeland has made them masters of guerrilla warfare. They can breathe underwater and are resistant to poison and diseases."

Aside from the disease and poison resistance, how do Argonians in ESO resemble that description? Answer is, they don't. Please redesign the racial passives to redeem yourselves in the eyes of the void-lord Sithis. Seriously, the "tweaks" made for the Imperial City DLC aren't even Band-aids. They're insults to true Argonian fans. You need to get rid of the potion and healing received passives and give us something more universally useful and resembling the aforementioned description of Argonians.

Eric Wrobel must be stopped...and, @ZOS_RichLambert , you have the power to stop him. You would be a hero to Argonians throughout Tamriel. You're name would be passed down through generations of Argonians as the savior our race. Please, help us. You're our only hope. Bring this madness to an end.

Well to be honest I actually enjoy the potion passive. Getting a little more from a potion has help me a lot in different situations.

You wouldn't rather just have a straight up regen or max stat increase? A potion is on a cool down and isn't up all the time. It's significantly disadvantaged compared to other passives that are always active.

Well they just made it so we can get more out of potions and increase our max health and increase the healing we received. I am fine with this because I keep my regen and max any stat by using armor. Other races cannot even do this and I notice the different when I am not on my Argonians characters. Plus I use potions anyway since they increase magic regen, health, or stamina. Best thing is that all my characters can benefit from the potion use unlike some of the other races racial passives.

Swimming faster is nice, but useless due to water being a no-combat and no-dive zone. Needs to stay though.

For starters, the poison/disease resistance should be significant; at least double current amount;

Increased Health and Magicka regen;

And, to simulate the inherent awesomeness of their tails, increased weapon damage and minor damage reflection.

This might have the intended side effect of lizard envy and OP outrages.

"We will wallow in the mud of elation..."

argonian mages are more often the female "life phase" while the male phase is more thief/assassin oriented. Also, play Oblivion half the guildmasters are argonian

I agree, my second favourite character is an argonian, but despite that, it is also one of my least played characters due to how crap the argonian passives are, even after the "buff". Why play as an argonian when I can do better on almost everyone of my other classes? Literally the only reason I play it is because I like argonians.

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Emissary_Vex wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

towards the in-game character classes of the mage and the thief

While there is allot of lore that indicates Argonian's being thieves/assassins; I don't know of any lore that indicates they are adept mages. Nor of any lore mentioning any notable mages being Argonian.

Either way, their current passives don't represent them well. This game would have you believe that they're healers primarily.

Their passives lead me believe that they heal remarkably well. And that's something that HAS been shown for Argonians in past games. Or are you forgetting the Histskin racial power that they possess in Skyrim? Their passives also tell me that they are better in water than other races (which they are) and that they are highly resistant to disease (which they are). So it lookes like their racial passives represent them just fine.

Actually their passives are more tanky. Healing taken is usually a tank's passive while healing done is healer's.

Back on topic though: argonians' passives suck compared to any other race and there's no point denying it.

seems odd ZOS really pushing the potions theme for angonians still but for pvp/resource management it would be nice if the values are good enough, but I've never tried it.

posions and disease resistance is another nice PVP resistance with more and more poison related gear and stamina NB bow users being popular. and people using syphers advice about disease enchants to debuff healing it could be very nice. but it never seemed like much of a resistance. id rather a flat % rather than a number and a decent % at that. considering other than via bow most the posion and disease damage effects come from enchants so only make up a fraction of the damage. and resistance is unclear is it resistance to the damage they do or to the debuff/dot effects also?

for me though its the first passive i didnt like. quick to mend.....healing recieved 6% increase. like with kajhiit "robust" just doesnt go with what they are trying to make the class do.... you give some very nice PVP passives only to give healing recieved? okay i guess but 6% isnt all that considering value for healing arent very high to begin with.

take it away and put in something that works but is also feasible for angonians. like something similar to dunmer + x% magicka/stamina if you are going with theif mage theme. or even make them even more tailored to pvp and give them something like reduce dodge-roll cost by 10/20/30%.

IMO Argos aren't that bad. But if you really want to make a case with the devs, I suggest exaggerating less, and include some actual data if you want to argue based on performance.

As far as lore/RP goes, poison/disease resist and swimming speed are obviously spot on. Healing received and +pots I can easily imagine that as Argos having a "fast metabolism" or some such physiological difference compared to other races. Arguments based on lore are highly subjective. ESO should make a reasonable effort to fit in with established lore, but there is a point of diminishing returns.

No wonder they are forced to work as lusty maids

I'm actually fine with the passives. I mainly play an Argonian too. The heal passive affects a lot of my Templar abilities that give me health when I attack or heal. Health passive helps me a lot since I have light armor on, I'm alright with the potion passive since I always make sure use a potion in combat. The poison passive is useful too for PvP. I wanna see the changes coming with the next patch before I make any judgement calls yet.

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

I'm actually fine with the passives. I mainly play an Argonian too. The heal passive affects a lot of my Templar abilities that give me health when I attack or heal. Health passive helps me a lot since I have light armor on, I'm alright with the potion passive since I always make sure use a potion in combat. The poison passive is useful too for PvP. I wanna see the changes coming with the next patch before I make any judgement calls yet.

Yes, but if you were a Breton, Dunmer, or Altmer you'd have more max magicka so your spells would hit harder and thus heal you more. Plus, you have more magicka to cast not only more healing spells, but also any other spells, as well. Once you factor in how max stats affect more than just your resource pool, it becomes much clearer how much weaker the Argonians are.

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

I'm actually fine with the passives. I mainly play an Argonian too. The heal passive affects a lot of my Templar abilities that give me health when I attack or heal. Health passive helps me a lot since I have light armor on, I'm alright with the potion passive since I always make sure use a potion in combat. The poison passive is useful too for PvP. I wanna see the changes coming with the next patch before I make any judgement calls yet.

Yes, but if you were a Breton, Dunmer, or Altmer you'd have more max magicka so your spell would hit harder and thus heal you more. Plus, you have more magicka to cast not only more healing spells, but also any other spells, as well. Once you factor in how max stats affect more than just your resource pool, it becomes much clearer how much weaker the Argonians are.

I do not really compare my race buffs vs the buffs of the other races. I sit and look at what I have in front of me, and what tools my toon has access to. If I can successfully kill people AND support well in PvP, then my toon is doing what I built him to do. This is what makes me happy. If I were a Breton I would not be happy. Because I wouldn't be playing my Argonian. If I told you...that when my friends ask me for advice on a Templar...I tell them to make a Breton one? Just because of the passives? However, I've been told by my friends that some of the best healers they met, least on PS4 have been Argonian. And none of my friends who I've told to go Breton for Templar, actually WANT to go Breton. They want a Argonian Templar. No other race would do it for them.

If you don't care about balance that's fine. Some people just want to play Argonian no matter how underpowered they are. I also want to play an Argonian, but I also care how balanced they are compared to other races.

starkerealm wrote: »

Emissary_Vex wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

towards the in-game character classes of the mage and the thief

While there is allot of lore that indicates Argonian's being thieves/assassins; I don't know of any lore that indicates they are adept mages. Nor of any lore mentioning any notable mages being Argonian.

They've gotten increased starting mage skills in every single player game I've actually played one in. So, that one's not actually that out there. IIRC in both Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim they were explicitly a spellthief pick.

Spell thief is where I think they should take them. Right now the stealthy races are geared toward stamina builds. I think Argonians should fill the void and ZOS should redesign them to be magicka-based thieves.

Selique wrote: »

Argonian Nightblades should get a cool passive for being epic Shadowscales....

Right? The whole Shadowfen questline revolves around Shadowscales and then you look at the Argonian passives and wonder how that fits. I think ZOS really dropped the ball and the only way it has a chance of getting corrected is if we all speak up, write in-game feedback, and demand that they fix the Argonians.

Dahkoht wrote: »

Where's the dunmer when you need them ? Can't you all keep the lizard folk in line please ?

Boooooo!

Just say no to slavery.