Each sale in guild store give 7% to the guild (aka the owner).

With 1M sales / week, it's 70k for the owner,
For 20M, it's 1.4M for the owner. spots don't cost that much.

Exemple of gold in guilds ? buy tri-stats pots, yellow tremps, xp pots, xp pot recipe, get crafters with nirm, dwemer style,

new glass motif
new crafts resources ..

who will be stuffed with v16 gear?

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Ayantir wrote: »

Each sale in guild store give 7% to the guild (aka the owner).

With 1M sales / week, it's 70k for the owner,
For 20M, it's 1.4M for the owner. spots don't cost that much.

Exemple of gold in guilds ? buy tri-stats pots, yellow tremps, xp pots, xp pot recipe, get crafters with nirm, dwemer style,

new glass motif
new crafts resources ..

who will be stuffed with v16 gear?

no, its 3-4% of income from taxes not 7%

3,5% to be exact

I'm on the PS4 and belong to a couple of guilds. I am the guild master of a small guild with a guild store but no guild trader. I have bid a couple of times (last bid was 111,000gold) but have never won the bid. I'm not complaining overall, but there is really no way for our small guild to compete with the larger ones. I am also not saying we even should be trying to compete with them. Our small guild of 62 people will never recoup the gold outlay it would cost us to win a guild trader, so our store is our own, for now.

I am also a member of one of the big trading guilds, with about 500 members. I have to pay 1999gold each week for the opportunity to sell my wares there. I'm happy to do this because this week alone, I've made over 100k gold just selling alchemy reagents. What I do, to make myself more informed as a merchant, is to look at the sales history of this guild. As a member, I am allowed to do this. To get to this history (on PS4), follow this:

Options -> Social -> Guilds -> (select guild to look at) -> History -> Sales: Show All -> click then scroll through the last 10 days of sales.

I use this to get an idea of what things are selling for, not what they are listed for. I'm interested in SALES, not PRICES. Using this information, I've created a spreadsheet of items, their selling price, and how much per item (for those sold as a number greater than one). I use this to competitively price my items and I've been able to make a good profit on the things I've sold.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Yes we all know guild traders are rip-offs who charge stuff way over priced and we need either a global auction house or player man vendors that players can run such as in Ragonarok online 2.

I am getting tired of wasting piles of gold just for a few alchemy or black smithing materials and no being able to sell anything.

Oh no, not again someone starting with "we all know", especially when it comes to the trading system !!! There are enough threads on this topic on this forum to know that people's opinions about it are very split, about 50/50, so please don't start with "we all know" because that's plain wrong. What you state is JUST YOUR OPINION.

And why the hell do you buy things that you think are overpriced ????? Overprice means that you could get it cheaper somewhere else. Why don't you do that ? Or farm the damn item yourself ? Or live without it ? The things you mention (crafting mats, alchemy ingredients) are extremely easy to farm.

If there are indeed overpriced items, this is not the system's fault, it's entirely because there are people buying at such prices. Action House wouldn't change that.

IRL is different : there are things that you NEED (food, heating, housing...) but INGAME, there is absolutely nothing that you cannot farm yourself quite easily or that you cannot play without quite easily too.

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

The idea of needing to be in a guild to sell to other players is, and always will be, completely stupid. Right now, I have an Argonian and Altmer motif sitting in my inventory gathering dust. I would LOVE to sell these, but I'm not joining a guild that I don't even want to be a part of in the first place and is most likely going to charge me for membership, just to sell two items. Instead, my only options are to NPC them and get 10 gold each, or let them sit and take up space. I would need a hundred of them just to make up for the price I COULD be selling them for. And the bank and inventory space are EXTREMELY limited even without dead weight sitting there, which I could expand IF I could make a decent amount of gold in this game. So basically, my only two options are non-options. The most insane thing about this is that people think this is GOOD.

It's incredible how people have definite opinions on stuff and systems that they haven't even tried nor experienced !!!

Why are you so stubborn that you don't even want to try and join a trading guild ??? Why don't you join a guild that does not require weekly fees ? (which, by the way, are by no means a "rip-off" of members, but rather a shared investment).

Sounds like a child who decided to not and never ever eat spinach. He does even know the taste of spinach but he definitely wants fries instead.

The trading system is good because it's a game in itself. And creates another types of relationships between players than PvPvE guilds. Social interaction are good for an MMO.

An auction house would be convenient (but bad for correct pricing and easy for malicious people to manipulate), but NO FUN. Guild and kiosk system provides correct pricing and FUN.

So you're saying that an auction house is exploitable but this horrid kiosk system is entirely infallible? What a world of candy and rainbows you must live in.

I've been in these discussions for awhile now, and I've yet to see a sensible argument for this guild trader system that trumps what has been proven to work countless times over.

I don't think anyone thinks the kiosk system is infallible. I think there are pros and cons to both options, and certain things about the kiosks (like the vanilla search function) can definitely be improved. But as @anitajoneb17_ESO pointed out, the kiosk system is fun for a section of the player base. Not only from a selling perspective, but also as someone who likes finding bargains. I always check traders I come across for certain items and it's always awesome when I find them cheaply.

I also find it very interesting how pricing changes over time based on supply and demand created by game changes (like Nirncrux items/stones, Psijic Ambrosia fragments/potions and perfect roe and most recently the treasure maps)

I really don't find the idea of an Auction House appealing. I'm also playing TSW and I hear it has one. Not bothered with it so far and don't miss it at all.

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

The fact that I HAVE to join one just to sell a couple items should be a HUGE red flag to anyone.

Why ? (I mean, such emphasis ... "HUGE RED FLAG".... and no argument at all...)

That would be pretty obvious if you got out of your tunnel vision and looked at the bigger picture. I don't want to be in a guild. I don't want people constantly bugging me for stuff, whether it's items or money or my time. I can't sell items to other players, which is a rudimentary part of the game, without having to do things that I don't want to be a part of. If I don't want to do PvP, I don't have to. I can easily avoid PvP without it inhibiting the rest of the game. Why is trading different? It's stupid.

I'm a member of one official "Trading Guild" (though two of my social guilds regularly get traders too) and nobody has ever asked me for anything. I do keep their guild chat on most of the time as they have some interesting discussions, are generally a nice bunch of people and I can sometimes answer questions that folks have about stuff.

Unless you are a crafter looking for customers, though, you really don't need to do that. If you are a crafter, it's useful because you will see people who are looking for an enchanter/provisioner/woodworker or something and you can deal directly with them.

But if you really don't want to join a guild, even if you never have to talk to anyone at all, you can always keep an eye on Zone Chat and if someone is looking for something you actually have, you can contact them and deal with them directly. Some people have a lot of fun selling in zone chat, but that's definitely not my cup of tea.

DigitalShibby wrote: »

Not true. I was kicked from a top trading guild on PS4 EU server for selling tempering alloys at 8500. He message me telling me I had to price them at 9-10k or be kicked.

That's bad behaviour indeed. Leave the guild.
You'll always have black sheep among the crowd whatever the system. Just don't be part of it (and if enough people react the same way, hopefully it will disappear).

In the end the customers make the prices. If they think its overpriced they shouldn't buy. This way prices will sink no matter what some abusive guilds do.

If I remember correctly there used to be such a phase on PC too, some guilds would try to force prices onto members, or ban people for undercutting. As far as I know it's completely disappeared.

Auction House / Global Market will always better than The Guild Trader System. Heres why:

• Player Reach and Ease of Access.
• Competetive Prices.
• Auction House Tax, determined by Market Conditions.
• Wider Range of Items, and Increased Availability.
• Trackable Price History.
• Faster and More Dynamic Economy.

Chaos_Deception wrote: »

Auction House / Global Market will always better than The Guild Trader System. Heres why:

• Player Reach and Ease of Access.

A solid point, and is the ultimate pro to an AH.

Chaos_Deception wrote: »

[*] Competetive Prices.

We actually have that already, albeit in a fractured way. Kiosks in the same city compete each other for the common audience, kiosks in different locations often adjust their prices to make up for not being in a prime location.

Chaos_Deception wrote: »

[*] Auction House Tax, determined by Market Conditions.

Actually not too sure what to say on this one other than that's its just as viable a gold sink as house cut we currently have.

Chaos_Deception wrote: »

[*] Wider Range of Items, and Increased Availability.

Again, convenience is perhaps the greatest pro of a global AH. However that is not always a good thing. Like everything else in life, moderation is important even with in-game economies. Global AHs are usually so flooded with goods the game overall has a massive surplus to the point that massive inflation is inevitable. With no proper gold sinks those economies usually go downhill due to the accumulative gold that does not get filtered out of the game quickly enough. It's not healthy.

Most of time its not even something the GMs can fix server side either because that usually means they have to artificially increase scarcity in world that is inherently without it (you never "run out" of reagents or rawhide. No deforestation or famine or anything...) and artificially baring players from farming it is bound to get a more negative effect.

Chaos_Deception wrote: »

[*] Trackable Price History.

All guilds have a trackable price history for members.

Chaos_Deception wrote: »

[*] Faster and More Dynamic Economy.

I actually quite disagree with this one. Faster? True the rates of exchange vary from region to region in this game but overall is not necessarily slower for it. Just decentralized to a point where its not as obvious. The market reacts as fast or slow as the player populous in the region demands.
As for an AH being 'more dynamic'...I actually believe this be false. If an AH is known for one thing, it is for conglomerating everything into once space. All of those goods in one singular sector with no alternate avenue of sale(s) means that that market is the only market. In that only market only one price reigns supreme: the cheapest. That is not inherently a bad thing, but anyone who even tries to post his goods for anything more than that current cheapest price simply won't sell (it's in the buyer's nature to buy the cheapest). The only way for a price to go is lower. Goods priced a anything higher simply are not viable, and when a good is priced cheaper than usual that usually becomes the new standard and makes the formerly viable prices obsolete. Variation in prices simply does not exist in the same way it does here. You cannot go one place and hope to find items cheaper/higher there because that one market is the only market. Thus there is close to market variation at all for similar products because there is only the one.

Chaos_Deception wrote: »

With the Current System. I have to Travel all Across Tamriel looking and Hoping to find that One Guild Seller that just might have the Item that I am looking for. And even then its not Guaranteed.

That Constitutes as Unneccessary Tedium. If ZOS insist on keeping the current System as it is. Then at least allow a Global Search for required said Item from any Guild Seller.

+2 for a global search mechanism.
-1 for overuse of caps

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

I have no desire to join a guild, for any reason. The fact that I HAVE to join one just to sell a couple items should be a HUGE red flag to anyone.

That is such a silly argument. It is so easy to be part of a trading guild. I am a member of 5 and have never once communicated with a single member of any of these guilds (with the exception of several 100% optional raffles, and requesting price checks on a couple items). I just don't understand your opposition to do something which is so incredibly easy and has absolutely no negative impacts. It's like holding up a glass of water, complaining that your arm is sore, yet being adamant that you refuse to place down the glass of water, and think it is ridiculous that you are required to place down the glass to relieve the soreness in your arm.

And yes, being a member of a trading guild is about as easy as setting down a glass of water...

I don't think you even really understand what a trading guild is. You seem to think it is a group of people who are constantly communicating with each other trying to buy and sell items, when in reality a vast majority of the members join the guild, then use the guild trader, and that is the extent of their interaction with the guild.

Further highlighting the inherent flaw and tedium of the existing system.

Sure, some may like traveling across the whole of Tamriel to look for One Item.

But I certainly do not. Here's to hoping for a better solution that is a benefit to all.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Yes we all know guild traders are rip-offs who charge stuff way over priced and we need either a global auction house or player man vendors that players can run such as in Ragonarok online 2.

I am getting tired of wasting piles of gold just for a few alchemy or black smithing materials and no being able to sell anything.

Then pick you own mats?

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

I have no desire to join a guild, for any reason. The fact that I HAVE to join one just to sell a couple items should be a HUGE red flag to anyone.

That is such a silly argument. It is so easy to be part of a trading guild. I am a member of 5 and have never once communicated with a single member of any of these guilds (with the exception of several 100% optional raffles, and requesting price checks on a couple items). I just don't understand your opposition to do something which is so incredibly easy and has absolutely no negative impacts. It's like holding up a glass of water, complaining that your arm is sore, yet being adamant that you refuse to place down the glass of water, and think it is ridiculous that you are required to place down the glass to relieve the soreness in your arm.

And yes, being a member of a trading guild is about as easy as setting down a glass of water...

I don't think you even really understand what a trading guild is. You seem to think it is a group of people who are constantly communicating with each other trying to buy and sell items, when in reality a vast majority of the members join the guild, then use the guild trader, and that is the extent of their interaction with the guild.

All of which amply demonstrates why it's such a defective system.

I could at least understand the point of a system in which you could join a single guild for optimum community involvement, with that guild being the focal point for trading. But to have to join 5 guilds in order to broaden the chances of your being able to sell items through a weekly bidding process, with no guarantee that your guilds will win their bids, and with no interaction with the other members of the guilds? I just don't see the benefit of such a system.

It's akin to having an auction house in which you can only sign up with certain of the auctioneers, who will take your sale items but not necessarily offer them for sale, and who will let you know if they do sell them successfully although they won't tell you which of the items they sold or where they sold them. Meanwhile it's no good interacting with those auctioneers if you also want to buy something, instead you have to run around the world to a whole mass of remote auctioneers who may or may not have the item you want until you find the item you're after at which point you might want to keep looking anyway in case there's another one somewhere else at a better price.

It's a broken system to all but those who are making a lot of money out of it. That's primarily a few dominant trading guilds with mostly high level players.

To be effective, a trading system should be open to all, irrespective of level, alliance and other artificial barriers such as guild membership.

Tandor wrote: »

.../...
To be effective, a trading system should be open to all, irrespective of level, alliance and other artificial barriers such as guild membership.

That's because you're not interested in the "trading game" and have not experienced it at all in ESO.

What you say is quite similar to saying :

"The most effective way to achieve a quest is to run from quest giver to objective to complete it. Putting mobs and riddles in the way is an artificial barrier and mostly an annoyance, please remove it".

Trading in ESO is a GAME. A global AH would be sooo boring.