it all goes into what is considered an exploit by who and whom, and a lot of other factors

I did flat out say I wasnt supportive of their in game choices, but for other reasons I never felt some of their accomplishments or abilities within the game were ever in question.

the one in question i had seem numerous times play without the unspoken exploit, and he was actually knowledgeable and well honed for his profession.

So for someone in the thread to derail him for EVERYTHING he had done prior was a bit much. The guy in question was a DK long before people knew him as a sorc.

But did I ever condone his use? Not even once.


its sort of like the pats and the ball thing. Tom Brady is still one [snip] of a QB no matter if last years season is in question or not. But if indeed there was shenanigans over last season that should be stricken and the title stripped.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

just not worth it anymore

Darnathian wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

it all goes into what is considered an exploit by who and whom, and a lot of other factors

I did flat out say I wasnt supportive of their in game choices, but for other reasons I never felt some of their accomplishments or abilities within the game were ever in question.

the one in question i had seem numerous times play without the unspoken exploit, and he was actually knowledgeable and well honed for his profession.

So for someone in the thread to derail him for EVERYTHING he had done prior was a bit much. The guy in question was a DK long before people knew him as a sorc.

But did I ever condone his use? Not even once.


its sort of like the pats and the ball thing. Tom Brady is still one hell of a QB no matter if last years season is in question or not. But if indeed there was shenanigans over last season that should be stricken and the title stripped.

Title stripped? Lol. Even the colts said the Patriots could have used a basketball and still beat them. Nice try. Stay on topic

... i dont think who would win or not was even the point man, it went right over your head

Actually your response only strengthened my argument. Player X would have beat Player Y anyway, despite player X cheating... so that justifies his use of cheating because it was a foregone conclusion? nah thats why there are rules in the NFL, same as in ESO TOS that need to be enforced like when brady was fined and suspended.

The Pats and Brady are still always going to be known as a Dynasty team and deservedly so, but last years win should be stricken or punished or at very least just not acknowledged which is exactly how I approached the response to the player OP is mentioning.

Darnathian wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

it all goes into what is considered an exploit by who and whom, and a lot of other factors

I did flat out say I wasnt supportive of their in game choices, but for other reasons I never felt some of their accomplishments or abilities within the game were ever in question.

the one in question i had seem numerous times play without the unspoken exploit, and he was actually knowledgeable and well honed for his profession.

So for someone in the thread to derail him for EVERYTHING he had done prior was a bit much. The guy in question was a DK long before people knew him as a sorc.

But did I ever condone his use? Not even once.


its sort of like the pats and the ball thing. Tom Brady is still one hell of a QB no matter if last years season is in question or not. But if indeed there was shenanigans over last season that should be stricken and the title stripped.

Title stripped? Lol. Even the colts said the Patriots could have used a basketball and still beat them. Nice try. Stay on topic

... i dont think who would win or not was even the point man, it went right over your head

Actually your response only strengthened my argument. Player X would have beat Player Y anyway, despite player X cheating... so that justifies his use of cheating because it was a foregone conclusion? nah thats why there are rules in the NFL, same as in ESO TOS that need to be enforced like when brady was fined and suspended.

The Pats and Brady are still always going to be known as a Dynasty team and deservedly so, but last years win should be stricken or punished or at very least just not acknowledged which is exactly how I approached the response to the player OP is mentioning.

Didn't go over my head "man". There is no proof Tom knew anything about it. The other guys were fired. We live in America thank god innocent until proven guilty.

When they fixed the balls at half time they actually scored more in the second half. People just hate the patriots. So the like to make things bigger than they are.

I agree with you stance on exploits. Your metaphor was just bad.

Burden of proof is now on the defense unfortunately since the league already ruled. If hes exonerated, awesome, I dont hate the patriots, hell tom has been a fantasy pick by me twice over the last six seasons (rodgers most of the others). I just go by what the here and now IS vs what many feel it should be.

it also invoked recent newsworthy knowledge for a benchmark, which is why i used it. dont see how thats bad really

i'll just go out on a limb and say most of the stuff people complain about don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things, and folks getting bent out of shape about what they perceive as a massive exploit, really only boils down to small potatoes. Take for example the quad mundus that I've had for awhile. Since I've been emp in AZ and gotten so many reports about it, I think ZoS finally listened (yes I had bug reported it myself earlier) and took away the extra mundus stones. I lost about 200 dmg from my tooltip, and I'm still hitting blades for ridiculously high numbers 13-14k... So when people want to tell me that the double mundus bug is breaking the game, sure it's cheesy, but is it fundamentally changing gameplay? No. Same with the bound armor glitch. I'm sure it's kinda nice to have that extra untoggled magicka, but if you think that's the only reason someone is hitting as hard as they do... then you gotta learn how to dps.

An example of a gamebreaking bug is that vamp bug where incoming dmg is permanently nerfed by what... 85%? There are a couple well known sorc users of this, and there's also a DK archer that's started doing this recently and a Templar as well. They change the way you fundamentally play the game. This is a glitch that zos should fix and we should care about as a priority over the smaller stuff.

Other things like nirn, sharpened maces, regen stacking, these are neither exploits nor glitches. Just poorly designed gameplay that gets fixed whenever it gets fixed. Hopefully the sooner the better, but until then players are just using the meta, and the folks (honestly I'd say the most vitriolic ones are DK) who are left behind should either adapt or stop complaining. The meta is always shifting and while today it's one thing it'll quickly become something else.

Lastly... I'd hope that players are smart enough to not be taken in by all of this exploit talk and start believing outlandish things. I remember when people in my pvp guild got on a long thing about blaming havoc for all the lag... deliberately causing all the lag. I remember hearing accusations that our own EP actor toon would multibox ddos attacks on eso specifically on keep pushes and defenses to crash the server in order to save their skin (presumably because they're all baddies too ofc). I remember trying to protest the ridiculousness of such accusations, how they run contrary to our own fights with havoc, our own experiences with lag, etc. etc. but for months the talk continued on. It is like the Salem witch trials had come to life.

That accusatory mentality is something that drives me crazy because 95% of the time it's just players who are bad making excuses for being bad or ignorant about how the game works. In the immortal words of one of the few NB's who dps' harder than me, you folks need to learn how to "git gud."

We will fundamentally disagree Yonkit. While I agree many of these issues arent major game changers, allowing them to continue or just minimizing their impact as trivial just makes the whole situation worse

There needs to be a line that cannot be crossed, and ZoS needs to boldly and definitively draw that line. And then follow through with punishments that actually have teeth.

not to mention there are legitimate hacks and exploits in this game that go far beyond mundus anything (you illustrated one of the worst in your own post, but there are others just as bad)

Rylana wrote: »

We will fundamentally disagree Yonkit. While I agree many of these issues arent major game changers, allowing them to continue or just minimizing their impact as trivial just makes the whole situation worse

There needs to be a line that cannot be crossed, and ZoS needs to boldly and definitively draw that line. And then follow through with punishments that actually have teeth.

not to mention there are legitimate hacks and exploits in this game that go far beyond mundus anything (you illustrated one of the worst in your own post, but there are others just as bad)

I'm minimalizing stuff that does small incremental changes to dps like mundus stones because... they're minimal. The CP gap between myself at 600, someone other EP emp at 2500286202, and nubs at 0 is so much more important of an issue in pvp than even if I or other players had all the mundus stones at once. I don't know if people realize this, but 100cp is worth totes more than a double mundus. It's just math.

Now as for drawing a line in the sand, sure I'm okay with that. It should be a "okay this is outside parameters don't do this again" and when they do it again a ban. That would require a more active and vigilant and competent zos team than we've ever seen before. I called in my quad mundus really early on in 1.6. It's fixed today. We know how zos works, it's slow goin'.

Yonkit wrote: »

i'll just go out on a limb and say most of the stuff people complain about don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things, and folks getting bent out of shape about what they perceive as a massive exploit, really only boils down to small potatoes. Take for example the quad mundus that I've had for awhile. Since I've been emp in AZ and gotten so many reports about it, I think ZoS finally listened (yes I had bug reported it myself earlier) and took away the extra mundus stones. I lost about 200 dmg from my tooltip, and I'm still hitting blades for ridiculously high numbers 13-14k... So when people want to tell me that the double mundus bug is breaking the game, sure it's cheesy, but is it fundamentally changing gameplay? No. Same with the bound armor glitch. I'm sure it's kinda nice to have that extra untoggled magicka, but if you think that's the only reason someone is hitting as hard as they do... then you gotta learn how to dps.

An example of a gamebreaking bug is that vamp bug where incoming dmg is permanently nerfed by what... 85%? There are a couple well known sorc users of this, and there's also a DK archer that's started doing this recently and a Templar as well. They change the way you fundamentally play the game. This is a glitch that zos should fix and we should care about as a priority over the smaller stuff.

Other things like nirn, sharpened maces, regen stacking, these are neither exploits nor glitches. Just poorly designed gameplay that gets fixed whenever it gets fixed. Hopefully the sooner the better, but until then players are just using the meta, and the folks (honestly I'd say the most vitriolic ones are DK) who are left behind should either adapt or stop complaining. The meta is always shifting and while today it's one thing it'll quickly become something else.

Lastly... I'd hope that players are smart enough to not be taken in by all of this exploit talk and start believing outlandish things. I remember when people in my pvp guild got on a long thing about blaming havoc for all the lag... deliberately causing all the lag. I remember hearing accusations that our own EP actor toon would multibox ddos attacks on eso specifically on keep pushes and defenses to crash the server in order to save their skin (presumably because they're all baddies too ofc). I remember trying to protest the ridiculousness of such accusations, how they run contrary to our own fights with havoc, our own experiences with lag, etc. etc. but for months the talk continued on. It is like the Salem witch trials had come to life.

That accusatory mentality is something that drives me crazy because 95% of the time it's just players who are bad making excuses for being bad or ignorant about how the game works. In the immortal words of one of the few NB's who dps' harder than me, you folks need to learn how to "git gud."

But thats only if you consider these peole only use 1 exploit in isolation.
Anyone who is happy to use 1 exploit is more than happy to use as many as they can get.
Yes they might not seem like much individually....but like the CP....they all add up.

See again people just explain away and minimize cheating.

"It's not that big a deal" "I am just as good without it"

Blah blah blah. Perception is reality. It's hurting the game when people are getting angry about it. And the response isn't to make a stink about it, and keep posting until ZOS acknowledges us. The response is to criticize players for getting angry about it!

I saw a very well know sorc literally take off and fly the other day.

I have seen videos on this forums of people Bolt Escaping to imperial city and getting nothing but Kudos!

If I was ZOS, and read these forums, I would assume that players just don't give a [snip] about cheating. They seem to think it's pretty cool!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Yonkit wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

i'll just go out on a limb and say most of the stuff people complain about don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things, and folks getting bent out of shape about what they perceive as a massive exploit, really only boils down to small potatoes. Take for example the quad mundus that I've had for awhile. Since I've been emp in AZ and gotten so many reports about it, I think ZoS finally listened (yes I had bug reported it myself earlier) and took away the extra mundus stones. I lost about 200 dmg from my tooltip, and I'm still hitting blades for ridiculously high numbers 13-14k... So when people want to tell me that the double mundus bug is breaking the game, sure it's cheesy, but is it fundamentally changing gameplay? No. Same with the bound armor glitch. I'm sure it's kinda nice to have that extra untoggled magicka, but if you think that's the only reason someone is hitting as hard as they do... then you gotta learn how to dps.

An example of a gamebreaking bug is that vamp bug where incoming dmg is permanently nerfed by what... 85%? There are a couple well known sorc users of this, and there's also a DK archer that's started doing this recently and a Templar as well. They change the way you fundamentally play the game. This is a glitch that zos should fix and we should care about as a priority over the smaller stuff.

Other things like nirn, sharpened maces, regen stacking, these are neither exploits nor glitches. Just poorly designed gameplay that gets fixed whenever it gets fixed. Hopefully the sooner the better, but until then players are just using the meta, and the folks (honestly I'd say the most vitriolic ones are DK) who are left behind should either adapt or stop complaining. The meta is always shifting and while today it's one thing it'll quickly become something else.

Lastly... I'd hope that players are smart enough to not be taken in by all of this exploit talk and start believing outlandish things. I remember when people in my pvp guild got on a long thing about blaming havoc for all the lag... deliberately causing all the lag. I remember hearing accusations that our own EP actor toon would multibox ddos attacks on eso specifically on keep pushes and defenses to crash the server in order to save their skin (presumably because they're all baddies too ofc). I remember trying to protest the ridiculousness of such accusations, how they run contrary to our own fights with havoc, our own experiences with lag, etc. etc. but for months the talk continued on. It is like the Salem witch trials had come to life.

That accusatory mentality is something that drives me crazy because 95% of the time it's just players who are bad making excuses for being bad or ignorant about how the game works. In the immortal words of one of the few NB's who dps' harder than me, you folks need to learn how to "git gud."

But thats only if you consider these peole only use 1 exploit in isolation.
Anyone who is happy to use 1 exploit is more than happy to use as many as they can get.
Yes they might not seem like much individually....but like the CP....they all add up.

These are not exploits as are classically defined but...

Steel tornado by itself is not particularly strong
Nor is a nirnhoned piece of gear
Nor is a sharpened weapon
Nor is an out of the box stamina build

But you put those four together and maximize them....

Double mundus, toggle, mistploit, terrain clipping (another common actual exploit thats hard to reproduce but once done basically gives you near immortality due to being nearly invisible or untargetable but able to hit people OUTWARD while you appear inside an object)

Put those together and youd have a monster. Actually I can name two EP ones off the top of my head but i wont.

But these two are not monsters... whatever is involved in their glitch renders them so weak that their damage output is insanely low. The dmg reduction is great i'm sure, but... they're really weak. Hardly monsters and really just distractions that we like to chase and obsess over.

Why do you minimize cheating?

Stikato wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

i'll just go out on a limb and say most of the stuff people complain about don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things, and folks getting bent out of shape about what they perceive as a massive exploit, really only boils down to small potatoes. Take for example the quad mundus that I've had for awhile. Since I've been emp in AZ and gotten so many reports about it, I think ZoS finally listened (yes I had bug reported it myself earlier) and took away the extra mundus stones. I lost about 200 dmg from my tooltip, and I'm still hitting blades for ridiculously high numbers 13-14k... So when people want to tell me that the double mundus bug is breaking the game, sure it's cheesy, but is it fundamentally changing gameplay? No. Same with the bound armor glitch. I'm sure it's kinda nice to have that extra untoggled magicka, but if you think that's the only reason someone is hitting as hard as they do... then you gotta learn how to dps.

An example of a gamebreaking bug is that vamp bug where incoming dmg is permanently nerfed by what... 85%? There are a couple well known sorc users of this, and there's also a DK archer that's started doing this recently and a Templar as well. They change the way you fundamentally play the game. This is a glitch that zos should fix and we should care about as a priority over the smaller stuff.

Other things like nirn, sharpened maces, regen stacking, these are neither exploits nor glitches. Just poorly designed gameplay that gets fixed whenever it gets fixed. Hopefully the sooner the better, but until then players are just using the meta, and the folks (honestly I'd say the most vitriolic ones are DK) who are left behind should either adapt or stop complaining. The meta is always shifting and while today it's one thing it'll quickly become something else.

Lastly... I'd hope that players are smart enough to not be taken in by all of this exploit talk and start believing outlandish things. I remember when people in my pvp guild got on a long thing about blaming havoc for all the lag... deliberately causing all the lag. I remember hearing accusations that our own EP actor toon would multibox ddos attacks on eso specifically on keep pushes and defenses to crash the server in order to save their skin (presumably because they're all baddies too ofc). I remember trying to protest the ridiculousness of such accusations, how they run contrary to our own fights with havoc, our own experiences with lag, etc. etc. but for months the talk continued on. It is like the Salem witch trials had come to life.

That accusatory mentality is something that drives me crazy because 95% of the time it's just players who are bad making excuses for being bad or ignorant about how the game works. In the immortal words of one of the few NB's who dps' harder than me, you folks need to learn how to "git gud."

But thats only if you consider these peole only use 1 exploit in isolation.
Anyone who is happy to use 1 exploit is more than happy to use as many as they can get.
Yes they might not seem like much individually....but like the CP....they all add up.

These are not exploits as are classically defined but...

Steel tornado by itself is not particularly strong
Nor is a nirnhoned piece of gear
Nor is a sharpened weapon
Nor is an out of the box stamina build

But you put those four together and maximize them....

Double mundus, toggle, mistploit, terrain clipping (another common actual exploit thats hard to reproduce but once done basically gives you near immortality due to being nearly invisible or untargetable but able to hit people OUTWARD while you appear inside an object)

Put those together and youd have a monster. Actually I can name two EP ones off the top of my head but i wont.

But these two are not monsters... whatever is involved in their glitch renders them so weak that their damage output is insanely low. The dmg reduction is great i'm sure, but... they're really weak. Hardly monsters and really just distractions that we like to chase and obsess over.

Why do you minimize cheating?

Because you like most players have an overinflated view of what cheating is, how it works, and what to do to combat it.

Rylana wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

i'll just go out on a limb and say most of the stuff people complain about don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things, and folks getting bent out of shape about what they perceive as a massive exploit, really only boils down to small potatoes. Take for example the quad mundus that I've had for awhile. Since I've been emp in AZ and gotten so many reports about it, I think ZoS finally listened (yes I had bug reported it myself earlier) and took away the extra mundus stones. I lost about 200 dmg from my tooltip, and I'm still hitting blades for ridiculously high numbers 13-14k... So when people want to tell me that the double mundus bug is breaking the game, sure it's cheesy, but is it fundamentally changing gameplay? No. Same with the bound armor glitch. I'm sure it's kinda nice to have that extra untoggled magicka, but if you think that's the only reason someone is hitting as hard as they do... then you gotta learn how to dps.

An example of a gamebreaking bug is that vamp bug where incoming dmg is permanently nerfed by what... 85%? There are a couple well known sorc users of this, and there's also a DK archer that's started doing this recently and a Templar as well. They change the way you fundamentally play the game. This is a glitch that zos should fix and we should care about as a priority over the smaller stuff.

Other things like nirn, sharpened maces, regen stacking, these are neither exploits nor glitches. Just poorly designed gameplay that gets fixed whenever it gets fixed. Hopefully the sooner the better, but until then players are just using the meta, and the folks (honestly I'd say the most vitriolic ones are DK) who are left behind should either adapt or stop complaining. The meta is always shifting and while today it's one thing it'll quickly become something else.

Lastly... I'd hope that players are smart enough to not be taken in by all of this exploit talk and start believing outlandish things. I remember when people in my pvp guild got on a long thing about blaming havoc for all the lag... deliberately causing all the lag. I remember hearing accusations that our own EP actor toon would multibox ddos attacks on eso specifically on keep pushes and defenses to crash the server in order to save their skin (presumably because they're all baddies too ofc). I remember trying to protest the ridiculousness of such accusations, how they run contrary to our own fights with havoc, our own experiences with lag, etc. etc. but for months the talk continued on. It is like the Salem witch trials had come to life.

That accusatory mentality is something that drives me crazy because 95% of the time it's just players who are bad making excuses for being bad or ignorant about how the game works. In the immortal words of one of the few NB's who dps' harder than me, you folks need to learn how to "git gud."

But thats only if you consider these peole only use 1 exploit in isolation.
Anyone who is happy to use 1 exploit is more than happy to use as many as they can get.
Yes they might not seem like much individually....but like the CP....they all add up.

These are not exploits as are classically defined but...

Steel tornado by itself is not particularly strong
Nor is a nirnhoned piece of gear
Nor is a sharpened weapon
Nor is an out of the box stamina build

But you put those four together and maximize them....

Double mundus, toggle, mistploit, terrain clipping (another common actual exploit thats hard to reproduce but once done basically gives you near immortality due to being nearly invisible or untargetable but able to hit people OUTWARD while you appear inside an object)

Put those together and youd have a monster. Actually I can name two EP ones off the top of my head but i wont.

But these two are not monsters... whatever is involved in their glitch renders them so weak that their damage output is insanely low. The dmg reduction is great i'm sure, but... they're really weak. Hardly monsters and really just distractions that we like to chase and obsess over.

Also... I don't use nirn. Heals in this game are already way too op (which we know and could be called an exploit just like ST, nirn, sharpened weapons etc since it's getting a mega nerf in the next patch) to actually need nirn in group play. You guys wearing nirn have been conned for anything but 1vX this whole time.

Yeah but see thats the funny thing Yonk, they COULD do massive damage if they tried. I dont know why they dont, you put that mistsploit on my sorc and id destroy people. For whatever reason they just have awful damage output or just suck at doing damage, i dunno?

Bad rotations, reliance on trolling with being unkillable for so long. But as a duo they do pretty adequate damage against someone really. then again any two will

Regarding nirn - Yonk the only thing that ever kills my DK is a stamina ability, seriously. Prox dets hit Dannika for less than 3k while blocking. its the armor pen making the armor worthless not the magicka damage people use. I giggle with glee when we engage sorcs for a reason man. Its funny to feel them tickle. But then some spintowintard walks up and im like ocrap

One of the competing theories for these guys is that they have to wear certain sets to accomplish this which cripples their dps. My own encounters with them in 1v1 situations seems to corroborate this as well because their attacks hit for significantly less than I would expect. Still needs to be fixed as no one should be that tanky outside petros, but the more I fight them and their acolytes, the more I just kinda ignore them.

Rylana wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

i'll just go out on a limb and say most of the stuff people complain about don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things, and folks getting bent out of shape about what they perceive as a massive exploit, really only boils down to small potatoes. Take for example the quad mundus that I've had for awhile. Since I've been emp in AZ and gotten so many reports about it, I think ZoS finally listened (yes I had bug reported it myself earlier) and took away the extra mundus stones. I lost about 200 dmg from my tooltip, and I'm still hitting blades for ridiculously high numbers 13-14k... So when people want to tell me that the double mundus bug is breaking the game, sure it's cheesy, but is it fundamentally changing gameplay? No. Same with the bound armor glitch. I'm sure it's kinda nice to have that extra untoggled magicka, but if you think that's the only reason someone is hitting as hard as they do... then you gotta learn how to dps.

An example of a gamebreaking bug is that vamp bug where incoming dmg is permanently nerfed by what... 85%? There are a couple well known sorc users of this, and there's also a DK archer that's started doing this recently and a Templar as well. They change the way you fundamentally play the game. This is a glitch that zos should fix and we should care about as a priority over the smaller stuff.

Other things like nirn, sharpened maces, regen stacking, these are neither exploits nor glitches. Just poorly designed gameplay that gets fixed whenever it gets fixed. Hopefully the sooner the better, but until then players are just using the meta, and the folks (honestly I'd say the most vitriolic ones are DK) who are left behind should either adapt or stop complaining. The meta is always shifting and while today it's one thing it'll quickly become something else.

Lastly... I'd hope that players are smart enough to not be taken in by all of this exploit talk and start believing outlandish things. I remember when people in my pvp guild got on a long thing about blaming havoc for all the lag... deliberately causing all the lag. I remember hearing accusations that our own EP actor toon would multibox ddos attacks on eso specifically on keep pushes and defenses to crash the server in order to save their skin (presumably because they're all baddies too ofc). I remember trying to protest the ridiculousness of such accusations, how they run contrary to our own fights with havoc, our own experiences with lag, etc. etc. but for months the talk continued on. It is like the Salem witch trials had come to life.

That accusatory mentality is something that drives me crazy because 95% of the time it's just players who are bad making excuses for being bad or ignorant about how the game works. In the immortal words of one of the few NB's who dps' harder than me, you folks need to learn how to "git gud."

But thats only if you consider these peole only use 1 exploit in isolation.
Anyone who is happy to use 1 exploit is more than happy to use as many as they can get.
Yes they might not seem like much individually....but like the CP....they all add up.

These are not exploits as are classically defined but...

Steel tornado by itself is not particularly strong
Nor is a nirnhoned piece of gear
Nor is a sharpened weapon
Nor is an out of the box stamina build

But you put those four together and maximize them....

Double mundus, toggle, mistploit, terrain clipping (another common actual exploit thats hard to reproduce but once done basically gives you near immortality due to being nearly invisible or untargetable but able to hit people OUTWARD while you appear inside an object)

Put those together and youd have a monster. Actually I can name two EP ones off the top of my head but i wont.

But these two are not monsters... whatever is involved in their glitch renders them so weak that their damage output is insanely low. The dmg reduction is great i'm sure, but... they're really weak. Hardly monsters and really just distractions that we like to chase and obsess over.

Why do you minimize cheating?

Because you like most players have an overinflated view of what cheating is, how it works, and what to do to combat it.

Rylana wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

i'll just go out on a limb and say most of the stuff people complain about don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things, and folks getting bent out of shape about what they perceive as a massive exploit, really only boils down to small potatoes. Take for example the quad mundus that I've had for awhile. Since I've been emp in AZ and gotten so many reports about it, I think ZoS finally listened (yes I had bug reported it myself earlier) and took away the extra mundus stones. I lost about 200 dmg from my tooltip, and I'm still hitting blades for ridiculously high numbers 13-14k... So when people want to tell me that the double mundus bug is breaking the game, sure it's cheesy, but is it fundamentally changing gameplay? No. Same with the bound armor glitch. I'm sure it's kinda nice to have that extra untoggled magicka, but if you think that's the only reason someone is hitting as hard as they do... then you gotta learn how to dps.

An example of a gamebreaking bug is that vamp bug where incoming dmg is permanently nerfed by what... 85%? There are a couple well known sorc users of this, and there's also a DK archer that's started doing this recently and a Templar as well. They change the way you fundamentally play the game. This is a glitch that zos should fix and we should care about as a priority over the smaller stuff.

Other things like nirn, sharpened maces, regen stacking, these are neither exploits nor glitches. Just poorly designed gameplay that gets fixed whenever it gets fixed. Hopefully the sooner the better, but until then players are just using the meta, and the folks (honestly I'd say the most vitriolic ones are DK) who are left behind should either adapt or stop complaining. The meta is always shifting and while today it's one thing it'll quickly become something else.

Lastly... I'd hope that players are smart enough to not be taken in by all of this exploit talk and start believing outlandish things. I remember when people in my pvp guild got on a long thing about blaming havoc for all the lag... deliberately causing all the lag. I remember hearing accusations that our own EP actor toon would multibox ddos attacks on eso specifically on keep pushes and defenses to crash the server in order to save their skin (presumably because they're all baddies too ofc). I remember trying to protest the ridiculousness of such accusations, how they run contrary to our own fights with havoc, our own experiences with lag, etc. etc. but for months the talk continued on. It is like the Salem witch trials had come to life.

That accusatory mentality is something that drives me crazy because 95% of the time it's just players who are bad making excuses for being bad or ignorant about how the game works. In the immortal words of one of the few NB's who dps' harder than me, you folks need to learn how to "git gud."

But thats only if you consider these peole only use 1 exploit in isolation.
Anyone who is happy to use 1 exploit is more than happy to use as many as they can get.
Yes they might not seem like much individually....but like the CP....they all add up.

These are not exploits as are classically defined but...

Steel tornado by itself is not particularly strong
Nor is a nirnhoned piece of gear
Nor is a sharpened weapon
Nor is an out of the box stamina build

But you put those four together and maximize them....

Double mundus, toggle, mistploit, terrain clipping (another common actual exploit thats hard to reproduce but once done basically gives you near immortality due to being nearly invisible or untargetable but able to hit people OUTWARD while you appear inside an object)

Put those together and youd have a monster. Actually I can name two EP ones off the top of my head but i wont.

But these two are not monsters... whatever is involved in their glitch renders them so weak that their damage output is insanely low. The dmg reduction is great i'm sure, but... they're really weak. Hardly monsters and really just distractions that we like to chase and obsess over.

Also... I don't use nirn. Heals in this game are already way too op (which we know and could be called an exploit just like ST, nirn, sharpened weapons etc since it's getting a mega nerf in the next patch) to actually need nirn in group play. You guys wearing nirn have been conned for anything but 1vX this whole time.

Yeah but see thats the funny thing Yonk, they COULD do massive damage if they tried. I dont know why they dont, you put that mistsploit on my sorc and id destroy people. For whatever reason they just have awful damage output or just suck at doing damage, i dunno?

Bad rotations, reliance on trolling with being unkillable for so long. But as a duo they do pretty adequate damage against someone really. then again any two will

Regarding nirn - Yonk the only thing that ever kills my DK is a stamina ability, seriously. Prox dets hit Dannika for less than 3k while blocking. its the armor pen making the armor worthless not the magicka damage people use. I giggle with glee when we engage sorcs for a reason man. Its funny to feel them tickle. But then some spintowintard walks up and im like ocrap

One of the competing theories for these guys is that they have to wear certain sets to accomplish this which cripples their dps. My own encounters with them in 1v1 situations seems to corroborate this as well because their attacks hit for significantly less than I would expect. Still needs to be fixed as no one should be that tanky outside petros, but the more I fight them and their acolytes, the more I just kinda ignore them.

All other things aside, Petros is the only Tank allowed in Cyrodiil. 60k non emp health too stronk


I heard much the same about the set(s) but if its the same five piece i heard, my sorc already uses two, and putting another three on wouldnt kill my DPS by much (id lose what, 250 spell power, trivial when you consider i run over 3k) O_o

Yah it's not just the 5pc cyrodil light set, i'm guessing it's like the ***'s. an exploit on a lowbie set.

why did the word *** get a ***?

why did editting the comment make the original *** go away? this game -_-

Rylana wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

i'll just go out on a limb and say most of the stuff people complain about don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things, and folks getting bent out of shape about what they perceive as a massive exploit, really only boils down to small potatoes. Take for example the quad mundus that I've had for awhile. Since I've been emp in AZ and gotten so many reports about it, I think ZoS finally listened (yes I had bug reported it myself earlier) and took away the extra mundus stones. I lost about 200 dmg from my tooltip, and I'm still hitting blades for ridiculously high numbers 13-14k... So when people want to tell me that the double mundus bug is breaking the game, sure it's cheesy, but is it fundamentally changing gameplay? No. Same with the bound armor glitch. I'm sure it's kinda nice to have that extra untoggled magicka, but if you think that's the only reason someone is hitting as hard as they do... then you gotta learn how to dps.

An example of a gamebreaking bug is that vamp bug where incoming dmg is permanently nerfed by what... 85%? There are a couple well known sorc users of this, and there's also a DK archer that's started doing this recently and a Templar as well. They change the way you fundamentally play the game. This is a glitch that zos should fix and we should care about as a priority over the smaller stuff.

Other things like nirn, sharpened maces, regen stacking, these are neither exploits nor glitches. Just poorly designed gameplay that gets fixed whenever it gets fixed. Hopefully the sooner the better, but until then players are just using the meta, and the folks (honestly I'd say the most vitriolic ones are DK) who are left behind should either adapt or stop complaining. The meta is always shifting and while today it's one thing it'll quickly become something else.

Lastly... I'd hope that players are smart enough to not be taken in by all of this exploit talk and start believing outlandish things. I remember when people in my pvp guild got on a long thing about blaming havoc for all the lag... deliberately causing all the lag. I remember hearing accusations that our own EP actor toon would multibox ddos attacks on eso specifically on keep pushes and defenses to crash the server in order to save their skin (presumably because they're all baddies too ofc). I remember trying to protest the ridiculousness of such accusations, how they run contrary to our own fights with havoc, our own experiences with lag, etc. etc. but for months the talk continued on. It is like the Salem witch trials had come to life.

That accusatory mentality is something that drives me crazy because 95% of the time it's just players who are bad making excuses for being bad or ignorant about how the game works. In the immortal words of one of the few NB's who dps' harder than me, you folks need to learn how to "git gud."

But thats only if you consider these peole only use 1 exploit in isolation.
Anyone who is happy to use 1 exploit is more than happy to use as many as they can get.
Yes they might not seem like much individually....but like the CP....they all add up.

These are not exploits as are classically defined but...

Steel tornado by itself is not particularly strong
Nor is a nirnhoned piece of gear
Nor is a sharpened weapon
Nor is an out of the box stamina build

But you put those four together and maximize them....

Double mundus, toggle, mistploit, terrain clipping (another common actual exploit thats hard to reproduce but once done basically gives you near immortality due to being nearly invisible or untargetable but able to hit people OUTWARD while you appear inside an object)

Put those together and youd have a monster. Actually I can name two EP ones off the top of my head but i wont.

But these two are not monsters... whatever is involved in their glitch renders them so weak that their damage output is insanely low. The dmg reduction is great i'm sure, but... they're really weak. Hardly monsters and really just distractions that we like to chase and obsess over.

Why do you minimize cheating?

Because you like most players have an overinflated view of what cheating is, how it works, and what to do to combat it.

Rylana wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

i'll just go out on a limb and say most of the stuff people complain about don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things, and folks getting bent out of shape about what they perceive as a massive exploit, really only boils down to small potatoes. Take for example the quad mundus that I've had for awhile. Since I've been emp in AZ and gotten so many reports about it, I think ZoS finally listened (yes I had bug reported it myself earlier) and took away the extra mundus stones. I lost about 200 dmg from my tooltip, and I'm still hitting blades for ridiculously high numbers 13-14k... So when people want to tell me that the double mundus bug is breaking the game, sure it's cheesy, but is it fundamentally changing gameplay? No. Same with the bound armor glitch. I'm sure it's kinda nice to have that extra untoggled magicka, but if you think that's the only reason someone is hitting as hard as they do... then you gotta learn how to dps.

An example of a gamebreaking bug is that vamp bug where incoming dmg is permanently nerfed by what... 85%? There are a couple well known sorc users of this, and there's also a DK archer that's started doing this recently and a Templar as well. They change the way you fundamentally play the game. This is a glitch that zos should fix and we should care about as a priority over the smaller stuff.

Other things like nirn, sharpened maces, regen stacking, these are neither exploits nor glitches. Just poorly designed gameplay that gets fixed whenever it gets fixed. Hopefully the sooner the better, but until then players are just using the meta, and the folks (honestly I'd say the most vitriolic ones are DK) who are left behind should either adapt or stop complaining. The meta is always shifting and while today it's one thing it'll quickly become something else.

Lastly... I'd hope that players are smart enough to not be taken in by all of this exploit talk and start believing outlandish things. I remember when people in my pvp guild got on a long thing about blaming havoc for all the lag... deliberately causing all the lag. I remember hearing accusations that our own EP actor toon would multibox ddos attacks on eso specifically on keep pushes and defenses to crash the server in order to save their skin (presumably because they're all baddies too ofc). I remember trying to protest the ridiculousness of such accusations, how they run contrary to our own fights with havoc, our own experiences with lag, etc. etc. but for months the talk continued on. It is like the Salem witch trials had come to life.

That accusatory mentality is something that drives me crazy because 95% of the time it's just players who are bad making excuses for being bad or ignorant about how the game works. In the immortal words of one of the few NB's who dps' harder than me, you folks need to learn how to "git gud."

But thats only if you consider these peole only use 1 exploit in isolation.
Anyone who is happy to use 1 exploit is more than happy to use as many as they can get.
Yes they might not seem like much individually....but like the CP....they all add up.

These are not exploits as are classically defined but...

Steel tornado by itself is not particularly strong
Nor is a nirnhoned piece of gear
Nor is a sharpened weapon
Nor is an out of the box stamina build

But you put those four together and maximize them....

Double mundus, toggle, mistploit, terrain clipping (another common actual exploit thats hard to reproduce but once done basically gives you near immortality due to being nearly invisible or untargetable but able to hit people OUTWARD while you appear inside an object)

Put those together and youd have a monster. Actually I can name two EP ones off the top of my head but i wont.

But these two are not monsters... whatever is involved in their glitch renders them so weak that their damage output is insanely low. The dmg reduction is great i'm sure, but... they're really weak. Hardly monsters and really just distractions that we like to chase and obsess over.

Also... I don't use nirn. Heals in this game are already way too op (which we know and could be called an exploit just like ST, nirn, sharpened weapons etc since it's getting a mega nerf in the next patch) to actually need nirn in group play. You guys wearing nirn have been conned for anything but 1vX this whole time.

Yeah but see thats the funny thing Yonk, they COULD do massive damage if they tried. I dont know why they dont, you put that mistsploit on my sorc and id destroy people. For whatever reason they just have awful damage output or just suck at doing damage, i dunno?

Bad rotations, reliance on trolling with being unkillable for so long. But as a duo they do pretty adequate damage against someone really. then again any two will

Regarding nirn - Yonk the only thing that ever kills my DK is a stamina ability, seriously. Prox dets hit Dannika for less than 3k while blocking. its the armor pen making the armor worthless not the magicka damage people use. I giggle with glee when we engage sorcs for a reason man. Its funny to feel them tickle. But then some spintowintard walks up and im like ocrap

One of the competing theories for these guys is that they have to wear certain sets to accomplish this which cripples their dps. My own encounters with them in 1v1 situations seems to corroborate this as well because their attacks hit for significantly less than I would expect. Still needs to be fixed as no one should be that tanky outside petros, but the more I fight them and their acolytes, the more I just kinda ignore them.

All other things aside, Petros is the only Tank allowed in Cyrodiil. 60k non emp health too stronk


I heard much the same about the set(s) but if its the same five piece i heard, my sorc already uses two, and putting another three on wouldnt kill my DPS by much (id lose what, 250 spell power, trivial when you consider i run over 3k) O_o

Yah it's not just the 5pc cyrodil light set, i'm guessing it's like the ***'s. an exploit on a lowbie set.

why did the word *** get a ***?

why did editting the comment make the original *** go away? this game -_-

Yonkit cannot into forums

Swooooosh

Yonkit wrote: »

Why do you minimize cheating?

Because you like most players have an overinflated view of what cheating is, how it works, and what to do to combat it.

this epitomizes everything wrong with this game.

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

i'll just go out on a limb and say most of the stuff people complain about don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things, and folks getting bent out of shape about what they perceive as a massive exploit, really only boils down to small potatoes. Take for example the quad mundus that I've had for awhile. Since I've been emp in AZ and gotten so many reports about it, I think ZoS finally listened (yes I had bug reported it myself earlier) and took away the extra mundus stones. I lost about 200 dmg from my tooltip, and I'm still hitting blades for ridiculously high numbers 13-14k... So when people want to tell me that the double mundus bug is breaking the game, sure it's cheesy, but is it fundamentally changing gameplay? No. Same with the bound armor glitch. I'm sure it's kinda nice to have that extra untoggled magicka, but if you think that's the only reason someone is hitting as hard as they do... then you gotta learn how to dps.

An example of a gamebreaking bug is that vamp bug where incoming dmg is permanently nerfed by what... 85%? There are a couple well known sorc users of this, and there's also a DK archer that's started doing this recently and a Templar as well. They change the way you fundamentally play the game. This is a glitch that zos should fix and we should care about as a priority over the smaller stuff.

Other things like nirn, sharpened maces, regen stacking, these are neither exploits nor glitches. Just poorly designed gameplay that gets fixed whenever it gets fixed. Hopefully the sooner the better, but until then players are just using the meta, and the folks (honestly I'd say the most vitriolic ones are DK) who are left behind should either adapt or stop complaining. The meta is always shifting and while today it's one thing it'll quickly become something else.

Lastly... I'd hope that players are smart enough to not be taken in by all of this exploit talk and start believing outlandish things. I remember when people in my pvp guild got on a long thing about blaming havoc for all the lag... deliberately causing all the lag. I remember hearing accusations that our own EP actor toon would multibox ddos attacks on eso specifically on keep pushes and defenses to crash the server in order to save their skin (presumably because they're all baddies too ofc). I remember trying to protest the ridiculousness of such accusations, how they run contrary to our own fights with havoc, our own experiences with lag, etc. etc. but for months the talk continued on. It is like the Salem witch trials had come to life.

That accusatory mentality is something that drives me crazy because 95% of the time it's just players who are bad making excuses for being bad or ignorant about how the game works. In the immortal words of one of the few NB's who dps' harder than me, you folks need to learn how to "git gud."

And I'm sure those extra mundus 'just appeared' out of no where right?

I have no respect for you or anyone else who exploits, git gud.

Actually if you wanna know, i went out to test the variant dps when 1.6 hit between the different mundus stones because, math and whatnot. I had the thief stone and tried to go get the warrior stone, when i picked it up the thief did not go away. Unsure of what to do, I went ahead and relogged and still had two stones. I then went and checked with the shadow stone and the same thing happened. Somewhat at a loss, I went and check the tower stone as well to see if it would just add instead of replace, and it did. I bug reported it and stopped adding more stones. Nothing happened for months despite reporting it, then was cleared of them today. It is a nonreplicable glitch that several people have had. What can you do hm? One person suggested deleting my v14 toon and rerolling. I did not take this advice.