Sorcerer, a Dying Class in PvP

twistedmonk · August 2015

MMO designers always seem to rotate which class is dominate in PvP.

Used to be DK, then Sorc, now NB....and then there is templar..umm...yeah, some day templar, some day...

well Sorc can enjoy being dominate in PvE next patch so there is that.

sorc is still the best dueling class, NB is just better in open world

Vatter · August 2015

I would like to see ZOS make hardened ward and all morphs scale with health not magicka and spell power.

OR make all other shields (blazing) scale off of spell power / magicka.

Leandor · August 2015

Vatter wrote: »

I would like to see ZOS make hardened ward and all morphs scale with health not magicka and spell power.

OR make all other shields (blazing) scale off of spell power / magicka.

My stamina DK strongly objects. My magicka templar on the other hand vehemently agrees.

Me? I go sit in the corner until the voices shut up.

Xael · August 2015

TheBull wrote: »

Are you fricken serious OP? This has to be the funniest thread of the year.

Dude considering I just rolled another on DC right? And Stam to boot!

Emma_Overload · August 2015

Vatter wrote: »

I would like to see ZOS make hardened ward and all morphs scale with health not magicka and spell power.

OR make all other shields (blazing) scale off of spell power / magicka.

You're not the first person to suggest this, but what would it really accomplish? All that would happen is that you would chase both Magicka and Stamina Sorcs into "tanky" PvP builds. Our shields would be just as big, but now we'd have 35K health as a buffer if the shield is wiped. We'd probably be harder to kill than ever! It would suck for PvE, though, because your DPS would suffer if you stacked Health instead of Magicka. Seems pointless.

Darlgon · August 2015

Skipping all the posts. FYI, ANY class I play is a dying class in Cyrodiil I am usually the chopped meat appetizer.

Cathexis · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

I say, restore Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, buff single shields and good.

14 Agrees

bosmern_ESO · August 2015

Every bad player: "SORCS ARE GETTING SO NERFED, THEY ARE USELESS, THEY ARE A DEAD CLASS!!!"

In reality for strong classes-
1. Nightblade
2. Sorcerer
3. Templar
4. DK

Xael · August 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Every bad player: "SORCS ARE GETTING SO NERFED, THEY ARE USELESS, THEY ARE A DEAD CLASS!!!"

In reality for strong classes-
1. Nightblade
2. Sorcerer
3. Templar
4. DK

That's not reality at all. DKs are not even close to being weak, let alone the weakest. This is typical forum parroting...

danno8 · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

I say, restore Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, buff single shields and good.

What kind of single shield size are we talking about?

'Cause the way I see this is now Sorcerers can have 1 giant shield instead of having to take the time/magicka/skill slots to stack 3, and fill those slots with even more offense/utility. All with infinite Bolt Escape?

Kronuxx · August 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Every bad player: "SORCS ARE GETTING SO NERFED, THEY ARE USELESS, THEY ARE A DEAD CLASS!!!"

In reality for strong classes-
1. Nightblade
2. Sorcerer
3. Templar
4. DK

There is so much truth to this. I've done multiple test runs on PTS playing both as a DK and Sorcerer and without a doubt, using FTC to calculate dps, I consistently kill quicker and die less often as a sorcerer compared to a DK. Mind you my main is a DK on live, and I've never really had much experience playing with a sorcerer. Thus it just goes to show the overall power a sorcerer can wield without needing much experience or skill to play as one. You guys can whine all you want, but I for one will be rolling a sorcerer when the new patch goes live.

AfkNinja · August 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Every bad player: "SORCS ARE GETTING SO NERFED, THEY ARE USELESS, THEY ARE A DEAD CLASS!!!"

In reality for strong classes-
1. Nightblade
2. Sorcerer
3. DK
4. Templar

Fixed for you.

Derra · August 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I say, restore Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, buff single shields and good.

I agree but people would still QQ about sorcs bolting away, plus BoL would be OP again..

They could reduce the range on every consecutive teleport by 2 meters capped at 50% range reduction with a cd of 5 seconds.
15m 13m 11m 9m 7m

This would enable to use the morph streak as an offensive option but heavily reduce the "bolt into the sunset" vaibility.

bosmern_ESO · August 2015

Xael wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Every bad player: "SORCS ARE GETTING SO NERFED, THEY ARE USELESS, THEY ARE A DEAD CLASS!!!"

In reality for strong classes-
1. Nightblade
2. Sorcerer
3. Templar
4. DK

That's not reality at all. DKs are not even close to being weak, let alone the weakest. This is typical forum parroting...

Have you even tried out a dk on the PTS? My flame lash (with weakness to elements and engulfing flames) on a target hit 2.8k on someone, on my Nightblade my sap essence hits people for 3k for EACH PERSON.

NB aoe hits harder than DK's strongest single target ability while my DK had all that increased damage and more spell damage.

bosmern_ESO · August 2015

AfkNinja wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Every bad player: "SORCS ARE GETTING SO NERFED, THEY ARE USELESS, THEY ARE A DEAD CLASS!!!"

In reality for strong classes-
1. Nightblade
2. Sorcerer
3. DK
4. Templar

Fixed for you.

sometimes it varies, but I think Templar is only slightly better because they can heal people and aren't totally useless like DK's now.

Mr_Nobody · August 2015

So the guy is crying that he wont be able to survive against someone who uses this set, yet doesnt take way higher spell damage than it is on live in account to actually burst the person who is using it. Some people are weird.

Darnathian · August 2015

Murmeltier wrote: »

Hi,

normaly i play a Templar Healer but at the Moment i twink my Sorcerer to VR14. I can understand that some Mechanics are very unbalanced, like Shieldstacking or endless Streaks / Bol. But there are enough Ideas and Options to Balance them, without destroying the best defensiv Mechanics completley.

Streak / Bol: the Changes there are too high. I can use Stealth on my Magicka NB very very often, i can heal with my Templar very very often but i see no raise in the Cost there. I think the Idea of raising Costs for really unbalanced Mechanics is ok, but then for all Classes please and with moderate Numbers.

Shieldbreaker - Set: This Set can be used very well with the Molag Kena Set and i am sure that many Players will use this Set or have this as a backup Set in PvP. As a Shield User you cant know which Person is using it, so you dont want to use your Shields anymore.

How long a Sorcerer will Survive without his Shields, how long he can get away with this terrible Malus in Cost for Streak / Bol?

For any DK, Templar and Healing Ward using Class, it is the same but these Classes have a Selfheal, the Sorcerer not. The Restoration Staff Skills arent good enough to Counter Green Dragonblood or Breath of Life.

I think it is a important Part to Balance the Skills from each Classes but these Changes, the higher Cost of Streak / Bol and the unbeleavable Shieldbreaker Set, destroys the most defensive Options a Sorcerer have.

What Sets coming next, maybe a Set which can detect every Stealth Character on 20m and do double Damage on him, or a Set that does Damage to every Person who recieved a Heal?

There are many Options to Change the Shield stacking Problem, like remove it and let only one Shield work at the same Time for an Example. But no Zos, you implement a Set that destroys the using for Shields completley.

What do you mean a Sorcerer now can do if he gets attacked from another Classes, ports away, no i dont think so because every Person uses a Gapcloser in PvP. Uses a Damageshield to Counter Damage, because he cant heal good enough like other Classes or stealth away, no i dont think so because he will go down and die faster then i can say " I thought the Shieldbreaker Set is not common and no one uses this".

It is ok to Balance some Skills out, but it isnt ok to destroy some of the most important Skills a Sorcerer, DK and Templers have. Remove Shieldstacking, raise the Cost with moderate Numbers maybe but erase the Shieldbreaker Set, and throw away any of this Ideas for Sets like this.

Or they sorcs could have been reasonable and agreed with making hardened ward scale off health. You reap what you sow.

k2blader · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

I say, restore Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, buff single shields and good.

You pretty much hit it.

A core ability of a sorc is to be mobile-- but Zeni f'd that up nicely with this 4th/5th (?) nerf to BE. I haven't seen an "endlessly bolting" sorc for weeks. Maybe because those types have already moved on to the next best-exploitable class.

Shield stacking was forced onto light armor builds as a primary defense because there is no other option. Yes, it does need to go, and the logical thing to do is what you said-- make people choose which shield they're going to use.

Personally I'd rather have better defensibility built into the class skills/passives themselves, but Zeni wants us to use bubbles or reroll.

Darnathian · August 2015

twistedmonk wrote: »

MMO designers always seem to rotate which class is dominate in PvP.

Used to be DK, then Sorc, now NB....and then there is templar..umm...yeah, some day templar, some day...

well Sorc can enjoy being dominate in PvE next patch so there is that.

sorc is still the best dueling class, NB is just better in open world

Templars are great too when played right. You haven't fought Mojican then. I turn around now and save my time when I see him. Lol

Dracane · August 2015

Sallington wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I say, restore Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, buff single shields and good.

It really does seem like it's as easy as just making shields not stack with each other.

It can't be hard. Just make 1 shield dissappear as soon as you activate another one.
Yes, it's barely possible for a Sorcerer to survive without multiple shields at the moment. That's why EACH single shield in the game must be buffed to fullfill a decent survival roll on its own.

k2blader · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I say, restore Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, buff single shields and good.

It really does seem like it's as easy as just making shields not stack with each other.

It can't be hard. Just make 1 shield dissappear as soon as you activate another one.
Yes, it's barely possible for a Sorcerer to survive without multiple shields at the moment. That's why EACH single shield in the game must be buffed to fullfill a decent survival roll on its own.

Well, people just counter by saying "30k shield stacks!!!!11" because they've seen it on a vid, read it on the forums, etc. When not every sorc has even close to that.

Makes me laugh because any decent stamina/physical weapon build, particularly any using nirn, shouldn't be having problems with most sorcs.

Dracane · August 2015

k2blader wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I say, restore Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, buff single shields and good.

It really does seem like it's as easy as just making shields not stack with each other.

It can't be hard. Just make 1 shield dissappear as soon as you activate another one.
Yes, it's barely possible for a Sorcerer to survive without multiple shields at the moment. That's why EACH single shield in the game must be buffed to fullfill a decent survival roll on its own.

Well, people just counter by saying "30k shield stacks!!!!11" because they've seen it on a vid, read it on the forums, etc. When not every sorc has even close to that.

Makes me laugh because any decent stamina/physical weapon build, particularly any using nirn, shouldn't be having problems with most sorcs.

It's not possible for an average Sorcerer, believe me. Hardened Ward for most Sorcerers will be between 9 or 11 k on pts. Even less for maaaany Sorcerers. Some Sorcerers barely have a 10k shield on live

but these are probably very unskilled ones anyway, with less than 30k Magicka
Harness Magicka can't be counted against Stamina damage, because it only works against magic. So 30k is an invalid argument anyway.

Healing Ward is stronger than Hardened ward if cast at low health.

k2blader · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I say, restore Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, buff single shields and good.

It really does seem like it's as easy as just making shields not stack with each other.

It can't be hard. Just make 1 shield dissappear as soon as you activate another one.
Yes, it's barely possible for a Sorcerer to survive without multiple shields at the moment. That's why EACH single shield in the game must be buffed to fullfill a decent survival roll on its own.

Well, people just counter by saying "30k shield stacks!!!!11" because they've seen it on a vid, read it on the forums, etc. When not every sorc has even close to that.

Makes me laugh because any decent stamina/physical weapon build, particularly any using nirn, shouldn't be having problems with most sorcs.

It's not possible for an average Sorcerer, believe me. Hardened Ward for most Sorcerers will be between 9 or 11 k on pts. Even less for maaaany Sorcerers. Some Sorcerers barely have a 10k shield on live but these are probably very unskilled ones anyway, with less than 30k Magicka
Harness Magicka can't be counted against Stamina damage, because it only works against magic. So 30k is an invalid argument anyway.

Healing Ward is stronger than Hardened ward if cast at low health.

I still don't know what the word "skill" in this game really means. :-) At any rate, on live I have a 10.4k Hardened Ward, less than 30k magicka, and do fine as the vast majority of my deaths are due to being outnumbered than anything else. As for those two stats I could get them better easily, especially if I wanted to use a certain CP passive. But at this point it doesn't really matter. That all said it's refreshing to see you say something like "it's barely possible for a Sorcerer to survive without multiple shields" because from what I read on the forums I thought I was the only one.

Dracane · August 2015

k2blader wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I say, restore Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, buff single shields and good.

It really does seem like it's as easy as just making shields not stack with each other.

It can't be hard. Just make 1 shield dissappear as soon as you activate another one.
Yes, it's barely possible for a Sorcerer to survive without multiple shields at the moment. That's why EACH single shield in the game must be buffed to fullfill a decent survival roll on its own.

Well, people just counter by saying "30k shield stacks!!!!11" because they've seen it on a vid, read it on the forums, etc. When not every sorc has even close to that.

Makes me laugh because any decent stamina/physical weapon build, particularly any using nirn, shouldn't be having problems with most sorcs.

It's not possible for an average Sorcerer, believe me. Hardened Ward for most Sorcerers will be between 9 or 11 k on pts. Even less for maaaany Sorcerers. Some Sorcerers barely have a 10k shield on live but these are probably very unskilled ones anyway, with less than 30k Magicka
Harness Magicka can't be counted against Stamina damage, because it only works against magic. So 30k is an invalid argument anyway.

Healing Ward is stronger than Hardened ward if cast at low health.

I still don't know what the word "skill" in this game really means. :-) At any rate, on live I have a 10.4k Hardened Ward, less than 30k magicka, and do fine as the vast majority of my deaths are due to being outnumbered than anything else. As for those two stats I could get them better easily, especially if I wanted to use a certain CP passive. But at this point it doesn't really matter. That all said it's refreshing to see you say something like "it's barely possible for a Sorcerer to survive without multiple shields" because from what I read on the forums I thought I was the only one.

Didn't mean to insult you

What I want to say with that, those Sorcerer will barely have any damage output and won't be able to take much damage. I know you beg to differ and say, 'But I do have a good damage output' No ^^ Just joking, but it'S obviously that a 30k+ Magicka Sorc with the same skill level will perform much better.

k2blader · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I say, restore Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, buff single shields and good.

It really does seem like it's as easy as just making shields not stack with each other.

It can't be hard. Just make 1 shield dissappear as soon as you activate another one.
Yes, it's barely possible for a Sorcerer to survive without multiple shields at the moment. That's why EACH single shield in the game must be buffed to fullfill a decent survival roll on its own.

Well, people just counter by saying "30k shield stacks!!!!11" because they've seen it on a vid, read it on the forums, etc. When not every sorc has even close to that.

Makes me laugh because any decent stamina/physical weapon build, particularly any using nirn, shouldn't be having problems with most sorcs.

It's not possible for an average Sorcerer, believe me. Hardened Ward for most Sorcerers will be between 9 or 11 k on pts. Even less for maaaany Sorcerers. Some Sorcerers barely have a 10k shield on live but these are probably very unskilled ones anyway, with less than 30k Magicka
Harness Magicka can't be counted against Stamina damage, because it only works against magic. So 30k is an invalid argument anyway.

Healing Ward is stronger than Hardened ward if cast at low health.

I still don't know what the word "skill" in this game really means. :-) At any rate, on live I have a 10.4k Hardened Ward, less than 30k magicka, and do fine as the vast majority of my deaths are due to being outnumbered than anything else. As for those two stats I could get them better easily, especially if I wanted to use a certain CP passive. But at this point it doesn't really matter. That all said it's refreshing to see you say something like "it's barely possible for a Sorcerer to survive without multiple shields" because from what I read on the forums I thought I was the only one.

Didn't mean to insult you What I want to say with that, those Sorcerer will barely have any damage output and won't be able to take much damage. I know you beg to differ and say, 'But I do have a good damage output' No ^^ Just joking, but it'S obviously that a 30k+ Magicka Sorc with the same skill level will perform much better.

Lol, no worries. Before I reached VR14 just recently I was pretty pumped to get all "min maxed" but have been way less motivated since hearing there'll be VR15/16 plus some pretty heavy nerfs to the fun of the class. I know I should get my butt onto the PTS to check it out but, meh... I can read your posts well enough. ;-)

Xael · August 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Every bad player: "SORCS ARE GETTING SO NERFED, THEY ARE USELESS, THEY ARE A DEAD CLASS!!!"

In reality for strong classes-
1. Nightblade
2. Sorcerer
3. Templar
4. DK

That's not reality at all. DKs are not even close to being weak, let alone the weakest. This is typical forum parroting...

Have you even tried out a dk on the PTS? My flame lash (with weakness to elements and engulfing flames) on a target hit 2.8k on someone, on my Nightblade my sap essence hits people for 3k for EACH PERSON.

NB aoe hits harder than DK's strongest single target ability while my DK had all that increased damage and more spell damage.

Actually, yes I have.
At VR14, emphasis on vr14, I was doing upwards of 9k to players with crits, 15k to mobs.
Not sure what you are doing wrong.

Dracane · August 2015

Xael wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Every bad player: "SORCS ARE GETTING SO NERFED, THEY ARE USELESS, THEY ARE A DEAD CLASS!!!"

In reality for strong classes-
1. Nightblade
2. Sorcerer
3. Templar
4. DK

That's not reality at all. DKs are not even close to being weak, let alone the weakest. This is typical forum parroting...

Have you even tried out a dk on the PTS? My flame lash (with weakness to elements and engulfing flames) on a target hit 2.8k on someone, on my Nightblade my sap essence hits people for 3k for EACH PERSON.

NB aoe hits harder than DK's strongest single target ability while my DK had all that increased damage and more spell damage.

Actually, yes I have.
At VR14, emphasis on vr14, I was doing upwards of 9k to players with crits, 15k to mobs.
Not sure what you are doing wrong.

So many people claim, Lash hits like a wet noodle

Well, if you are a tank who puts everything into defense, then everything hits like a wet noodle.
But reality is, that whip is a fast, hard hitting ability.

Rayste · August 2015

Rook_Master wrote: »

Ever since they removed softcaps sorcs have been super super OP.

If you are geared properly and are decently skilled at playing a sorc, you can absolutely wreck on 1.6 currently. 30k+ shields, stack all into magicka and get offense and defense and mobility, it's absolutely ludicrous.

I've heard good sorcs say that they never will die except to another sorc. And I've seen crap like that where the only counter to a shield spamming CF kiter is another sorc.

It's stupid, and that kind of crap has got to go. It's a long time overdue.

This shows a lack of class knowledge. Good sorcs do NOT kill each other first off. Second, good stamina players can be a sorcs bane. Think wrecking blow spam or nbs with macro from stealth. The good players already know how to counter shields ..... if you bring the 'good' sorcs down to your level, the average joe wont be able to run in IC.

melloni_aleb16_ESO · August 2015

Rayste wrote: »

This shows a lack of class knowledge. Good sorcs do NOT kill each other first off. Second, good stamina players can be a sorcs bane. Think wrecking blow spam or nbs with macro from stealth. The good players already know how to counter shields ..... if you bring the 'good' sorcs down to your level, the average joe wont be able to run in IC.

uhm..play you a Sorc ? .....uhm...and your solution is spam WB for kill Sorc ?

OK! ....

in live Sorc decides whether to fight or run away ...and his class-shield have no sense

Forestd16b14_ESO · August 2015

Yea sorry don't know what PTS you're on but there's still pleanty of sorcs on my PTS still shield stacking away and spamming crystal frags. DK on the other hand are like real dragons now and nearly extinct.