starkerealm wrote: »

I mean, you get some details right, like how you can slot werewolf abilities while in human form. Though, you certainly don't have to. Because your werewolf transform is a different skill bar, which I'd think you'd know if you'd ever run one. Sort of like how your second weapon and Overload produce new skill bars...

I wish I got a separate skill bar for my WW transformation, but I don't. When I transform, I see the same skill bar, with everything not WW ability faded out. (I just logged in to double-check it.)

If this is something wrong with my account/toon, I withdrawn the objection, but I'm not sure how I can fix it. Reload the software, maybe.

Brassmonkey wrote: »

I want to know where the mundus stone is for stamina regen because the atronach one increases magicka regen to 210. Seems fair in my book that WW get stamina regen without the ult slotted. The major problem I have is that it doesn't follow lore. If it did then it would be balanced. I mean just think about it, you have to find a WW npc to bite you during a fullmoon. Yet as a player you are not penalized in the same way?

It's probably worth pointing out, the Mundus Stones increase your stats by roughly 10%. So, the stone doesn't increase your regen to 210. It's just that your native regen was 191 (or something close to that) and when you applied the +10%, it boosted yours to 210.

It also goes up at higher levels, so you end up with characters who have a Stamina regen over 1k.

imredneckson wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

imredneckson wrote: »

-Has to lvl skills in WW form

That's not true. You can slot an entire skill bar full of your WW skills in human form if you want. You can't use them, but you can slot the skills on your bar so that you level them as you earn XP.

Sorry about that I ment the skill line like vamps can be lvled from 1 to 10 like normal players gain lvls but to my knowledge WWs need to be in WW form to lvl their line from 1 to 10

Oh, OK, if you meant the skill line itself rather than the individual skills, you are indeed correct. You can also level it from 1 to 10 in an hour, though, regardless of what level you are. I've got 6 different WW characters who I got to WW 10 before leaving the solo instance where you do the quest to become a WW (it's easy to do it there because you can stay in WW form indefinitely and just kill all the mobs there as they respawn). You can also just go to a low level area with lots of targets and go on a rampage to level it in about an hour or so - you level the skill line by getting kills while in WW form, but it doesn't matter what you kill. You don't have to kill stuff that would actually earn you XP.

starkerealm wrote: »

Okay, so... ZoS revising the systems so that players who are werewolves have to, you know, actually be werewolves. Beings that have been horribly cursed with awesome powers by an ambivalent and slightly snide god, so that they can transform into monstrous killing machines.

The death knell for them is that they'll actually have to be monsters? You know, like they were supposed to be anyway?

I used to play WoW. I'd compare werewolf to the feral bear Druid.

The WW ultimate should be a toggle. It should be an ultimate costing 0 or 1 ultimate. You sacrifice an ultimate slot for a third action bar. You can go WW at any time but you only have 1 ultimate nuke like meteor.

All other ultimates that cost a lot of ultimate are big nukes.

Funny thing for me, I never knew you didn't have to have the WW ult slotted to receive buff so my entire play style has been around that... so this literally changes nothing for me

acw37162 wrote: »

I actually agree withe the OP on the principle of the argument. WW is not even in the same league as vamp as far as usefulness goes.

Its passives compared to vampire suck.
WW costs the utility of one of two ultimate spots.
Your on a timer when you decide you actually do want to use your WW

In the next patch the one perk WW had is going to cost you an ultimate slot to keep.

Except you could have made your entire point without railing on vampires, 40 % or 25 % extra fire damage in not "easy" to mitigate. Any add or group of adds that does fire damage can 1 to 2 shot you if your not looking.

Without ridiculously priced resist fire glyphs (monetary barrier)
High end enchanter (skill point/time/ingredients barrier)
Champion Points (time barrier @ roughly 10 champion points per 5% reduction is 50 for 25% reduction which the math is not quite accurate because of diminishing returns or 80 CP is with 150 CP total or 240 total just to get close to normal mitigation)
Dark Elf choice (limit character creation choice)

So no 40 % fire damage is not "easy" to mitigate it actually a pain the ass to mitigate

But vamps get so much more benefits, it blatenly tells you that you'll get 40% fire dmg when you become a vamp yet people still cry that they die to fire dmg a lot?

So next patch makes ww useful, buff's vamps because they cried a lot.

Vigarr wrote: »

Is this really a long winded whine about having to slot the werewolf ultimate to get the passive?

Yes

While I agree that werewolves should have an "always on" poison vulnerability as well as the "always on" stam regen for the sake of balance and downsides I still think they should have to slot the Ult. Otherwise you're not "really" a werewolf, are you? Now granted I think werewolves have been designed HORRIBLY from the start. The transformation should have been a skill that you could hit and, like Mage Light, just stayed on. The Ult should be the thing that makes them hit like Mack trucks and only available while transformed. They should definitely have had a skill line similar to vampires.

On the other hand, vampires have ALSO been designed HORRIBLY for this game and need to be completely reworked.

What I find "interesting" is that the OP rails against those awful spoiled vampires while campaigning for making things better for werewolves. In-group Bias is a fascinating thing to watch.

MornaBaine wrote: »

While I agree that werewolves should have an "always on" poison vulnerability as well as the "always on" stam regen for the sake of balance and downsides I still think they should have to slot the Ult. Otherwise you're not "really" a werewolf, are you? Now granted I think werewolves have been designed HORRIBLY from the start. The transformation should have been a skill that you could hit and, like Mage Light, just stayed on. The Ult should be the thing that makes them hit like Mack trucks and only available while transformed. They should definitely have had a skill line similar to vampires.

On the other hand, vampires have ALSO been designed HORRIBLY for this game and need to be completely reworked.

What I find "interesting" is that the OP rails against those awful spoiled vampires while campaigning for making things better for werewolves. In-group Bias is a fascinating thing to watch.

I don't like the idea of only "being a werewolf" if I slot the ultimate. Meaningful choice, unless you unslot one skill...

RustedValor wrote: »

Both ultimate slots is a little over kill.

Option1: Having to slot it in only 1 ultimate slot to get the regen should be enough of a draw back. That way you still have 1 class ultimate and the werewolf ultimate for when you want to transform. That would balance it enough for my taste.

Option2: Greatly increase the transformation timer. I see no need for a short timer since you are losing your class skills and an ultimate while transformed, plus poison/fighters guild weakness.

Option 3: Give a passive in addition to stam regen while slotted such as weapon/spellpower% or Damage reduction%

Option 4: Remove the timer, Remove ultimate activation cost, reduce the devour time so it can be used as an effective combat heal, and hour buff to stamina regen after devouring please and thank you!

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

In theory vampires are STRONGER than werewolf because they have

-intelligences(just like how human beings are able to dominate the world while werewolf are mindless berserker's),

You are aware that Werewolves in The Elder Scrolls retain their intelligence when transformed, right?

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

-undead ( they are the ones that make zombies) as wel can call upon the dead to do their job.

Um, not that I recall.

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

-able to transform in to a vampire beast that can FLY

Wait, we're talking about ESO, right?

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

-can even control the minds of others(weaker minds).

I'm pretty sure that's just called, "being the raid leader," not "vampirism."

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

-the older the vamp the stronger he is( opposite of humans like young people are stronger than old)

That... doesn't seem to be doing them many favors, judging by my vampire body count in game.

Oooh, wait, you mean vampires can level up? Yeah, so can werewolves.

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

-vamp can come out of their hide as soon as it is dark while for WW,the can transform when their is a full moon

No, werewolves can transform anytime they've generated 300 Ultimate. If that's taking you four weeks, then something's gone very, very wrong.

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

So, now you know what they are!. They are no less than a devil or dedera (in the elder scroll lore)

My strangely reptilian gods, they're Dagoth Ur... no, wait...

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

While a werewolf is just a werewolf.
So,what ZOS as done is nothing wrong they understand perfectly well the difference between a vamp and a WW

Right.

Prothwata wrote: »

RustedValor wrote: »

Both ultimate slots is a little over kill.

Option1: Having to slot it in only 1 ultimate slot to get the regen should be enough of a draw back. That way you still have 1 class ultimate and the werewolf ultimate for when you want to transform. That would balance it enough for my taste.

Option2: Greatly increase the transformation timer. I see no need for a short timer since you are losing your class skills and an ultimate while transformed, plus poison/fighters guild weakness.

Option 3: Give a passive in addition to stam regen while slotted such as weapon/spellpower% or Damage reduction%

Option 4: Remove the timer, Remove ultimate activation cost, reduce the devour time so it can be used as an effective combat heal, and hour buff to stamina regen after devouring please and thank you!

If you read the ZOS post the WW transformation is no longer an ultimate!!!!
You can continuously press it.
From ZOS post http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1/p1
Werewolf
You can now safely press the button for the werewolf ultimate repeatedly without fear of immediately reverting back to normal again.

@starkerealm

lol, seriously man I couldn't stop laughing...;)

SedoUmbra wrote: »

In the Dawnguard DLC for Skyrim you were given additional abilities for transforming but you still had Vampiric Drain, night vision, calm (and maybe others) while in human form.

I'm not going to bring out the "this is not Skyrim" gag... but...

The Vampire Lord transform is a very unusual power, in setting. It's almost completely undocumented. Meaning, the people who see this rarely live long enough to report about it... and also meaning it's very rare, or someone would have seen something.

Second, player vampires in ESO already get one very unusual high end power. Complete daylight immunity. Something not even the Vampire Lords get. So... I guess the lesson to take away is, "don't be greedy."

SedoUmbra wrote: »

Also, WWs have extra Stamina even while in human form while their poison weakness only effects them in WW form.

Man, the days when we got a straight stamina up are long gone. Now it's a combat stamina regen up... which is really where this thread started.

After 1.7, the regen will be always on, instead of combat only, but it will require a player to actually have the transform slotted, or it will turn off, and your werewolf will just be like any other player.

SedoUmbra wrote: »

Vampires on the other hand have a permanent weakness to fire. WWs have access to CC attacks, knockdowns, DoT, distance-closing and self healing abilities. All except the healing requires Stamina which is recharged by your Strong attacks, so those are spammable. And since in WW you have nothing else to use Magicka on your healing should be commonly available as well. Not to mention you get extended WW time and heal back when you Devour something. And lets not forget you can switch back at any time during your Transformation.

And vampires get Devouring Swarm. Also, don't forget that Essence Drain is getting a really nice boost with the next patch. It will no longer set the fed state, meaning you can use it multiple times, and you can now use it on enemies that are stun immune or have a temporary acquired CC immunity. So you can stun them, but you can always hit someone with it. Including bosses.

Beyond that, werewolves have a very strong loadout, but, as you said, it's a temporary mode. So, while the powers synergize together well, you do need some skill to actually drag it out and stay there. It's an altered game mode that cranks the game into a kind of skill challenge you don't find anywhere else in the game, while Vampires are... really just an alternate skill line you can pick up.