DDuke wrote: »

I believe it'll be possible to outheal whip/concealed spam even without nirn and only by using Vigor.

Of course this requires a significant amount of CPs & a build focused around weapon dmg/stamina in order to maximize the efficiency of Vigor


Not that you'd ever have to do that, since those two skills will be dodgeable (though I still hear DK whip proc is able to hit dodging players).


Oh, and nice video !

8k Heal per second? Nah bro. :P

DDuke wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I believe it'll be possible to outheal whip/concealed spam even without nirn and only by using Vigor.

Of course this requires a significant amount of CPs & a build focused around weapon dmg/stamina in order to maximize the efficiency of Vigor


Not that you'd ever have to do that, since those two skills will be dodgeable (though I still hear DK whip proc is able to hit dodging players).


Oh, and nice video !

8k Heal per second? Nah bro. :P

If you think about it... I'm currently able to outheal all DK damage on Live with just Vigor and whatever natural health regen I have. My Vigor according to tooltip is currently a 12280 heal unbuffed. This is without crits of course.

After this patch, my 50% (38.2k spell resistance with Shadow Barrier up) will go down to just 34.6% (22.2k with Shadow Barrier up). But, I can also decrease all Magic/Fire damage taken by another 9.6% by getting more CPs (or reallocating points) and I can increase the efficiency of Vigor by a loot more than what I have on live by putting points into Blessed & Quick Recovery (I have atm 65 points in Quick Recovery, 2 in Blessed).

It should be enough to make Vigor extremely strong again, but we'll see.

The thing that most people don't understand is that when they get hit by a 8-10k whip, they figure that it is the standard and that every DK with reasonable amount of CPS (250-300) should have at least 60points in elemental expert to hit that hard.

Problem is, if you put 60points in elemental expert to get those high hitting whips, you won't do any good in 1vX or any kind of small scale (as a magicka DK). Any respectable magicka DK needs the sustain to be able to do any good because of the lack of range abilities and escape moves. So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

frozywozy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I believe it'll be possible to outheal whip/concealed spam even without nirn and only by using Vigor.

Of course this requires a significant amount of CPs & a build focused around weapon dmg/stamina in order to maximize the efficiency of Vigor


Not that you'd ever have to do that, since those two skills will be dodgeable (though I still hear DK whip proc is able to hit dodging players).


Oh, and nice video !

8k Heal per second? Nah bro. :P

If you think about it... I'm currently able to outheal all DK damage on Live with just Vigor and whatever natural health regen I have. My Vigor according to tooltip is currently a 12280 heal unbuffed. This is without crits of course.

After this patch, my 50% (38.2k spell resistance with Shadow Barrier up) will go down to just 34.6% (22.2k with Shadow Barrier up). But, I can also decrease all Magic/Fire damage taken by another 9.6% by getting more CPs (or reallocating points) and I can increase the efficiency of Vigor by a loot more than what I have on live by putting points into Blessed & Quick Recovery (I have atm 65 points in Quick Recovery, 2 in Blessed).

It should be enough to make Vigor extremely strong again, but we'll see.

The thing that most people don't understand is that when they get hit by a 8-10k whip, they figure that it is the standard and that every DK with reasonable amount of CPS (250-300) should have at least 60points in elemental expert to hit that hard.

Problem is, if you put 60points in elemental expert to get those high hitting whips, you won't do any good in 1vX or any kind of small scale (as a magicka DK). Any respectable magicka DK needs the sustain to be able to do any good because of the lack of range abilities and escape moves. So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

I've been hit for 8K whips/concealed weapon *with* Nirn and I'm not a vampire. What I don't understand is how people think using Nirn is cheesy or some kind of game-changer right now. It might give you an average 10-15% reduction in magic damage taken overall if that, yet it costs you a powerful 5 piece and 2-3 other useful traits at the same time.

And as far as CPs and a magicka DK your mage points are going to be spent on either Thamaturge (magic damage), Elemental Mastery (Fire damage) or the Crit Damage increasing points. 60 points into Elemental Mastery from magicka DKs at this point is pretty much expected and most hardcore PvPers are rocking 100 points in their primary damage stat by now.

If you're using drink you should be putting points into Elfborn (Stam Regen), if you use food a mix of Elfborn and Tumbling makes sense.

Ezareth wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I believe it'll be possible to outheal whip/concealed spam even without nirn and only by using Vigor.

Of course this requires a significant amount of CPs & a build focused around weapon dmg/stamina in order to maximize the efficiency of Vigor


Not that you'd ever have to do that, since those two skills will be dodgeable (though I still hear DK whip proc is able to hit dodging players).


Oh, and nice video !

8k Heal per second? Nah bro. :P

If you think about it... I'm currently able to outheal all DK damage on Live with just Vigor and whatever natural health regen I have. My Vigor according to tooltip is currently a 12280 heal unbuffed. This is without crits of course.

After this patch, my 50% (38.2k spell resistance with Shadow Barrier up) will go down to just 34.6% (22.2k with Shadow Barrier up). But, I can also decrease all Magic/Fire damage taken by another 9.6% by getting more CPs (or reallocating points) and I can increase the efficiency of Vigor by a loot more than what I have on live by putting points into Blessed & Quick Recovery (I have atm 65 points in Quick Recovery, 2 in Blessed).

It should be enough to make Vigor extremely strong again, but we'll see.

The thing that most people don't understand is that when they get hit by a 8-10k whip, they figure that it is the standard and that every DK with reasonable amount of CPS (250-300) should have at least 60points in elemental expert to hit that hard.

Problem is, if you put 60points in elemental expert to get those high hitting whips, you won't do any good in 1vX or any kind of small scale (as a magicka DK). Any respectable magicka DK needs the sustain to be able to do any good because of the lack of range abilities and escape moves. So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

I've been hit for 8K whips/concealed weapon *with* Nirn and I'm not a vampire. What I don't understand is how people think using Nirn is cheesy or some kind of game-changer right now. It might give you an average 10-15% reduction in magic damage taken overall if that, yet it costs you a powerful 5 piece and 2-3 other useful traits at the same time.

And as far as CPs and a magicka DK your mage points are going to be spent on either Thamaturge (magic damage), Elemental Mastery (Fire damage) or the Crit Damage increasing points. 60 points into Elemental Mastery from magicka DKs at this point is pretty much expected and most hardcore PvPers are rocking 100 points in their primary damage stat by now.

If you're using drink you should be putting points into Elfborn (Stam Regen), if you use food a mix of Elfborn and Tumbling makes sense.

I don't believe that people should not use nirnhoded at all. I use 2 pieces at the moment and I will keep using 2 pieces after the nerf because it will remain one of the best traits in the game. The problem is when people start using more than 2 pieces which bring way too much spell resistance the way nirnhoded works at the moment.

Also, if you think that a magicka DK with 250-300 CPs should put at least 60 points in Elemental Expert, you have a lot to learn about the class. He will do great in group play for sure but when he's by himself against 2 hard hitting stam nightblade, he will die in a matter of seconds. You simply cannot waste 60 points in Elemental Expert and expect to do any good in 1vX without having your defensive key CPs first. I'm doing good enough with the current setup and I don't think it could work with any less (this is buffed with abilities like entropy, gdb, hardened armor, etc, entropy slotted, epic food and without emperor as a nord vamp) :

- 40k+ spell resistances
- 25k physical resistances
- 26k hps
- 17k stam
- 22k magicka
- 900 stam regen
- 1400 magicka regen
- 2200 spell power

I have 254 CPs and 30 only in elemental expert. I simply cannot put more or I could not do any good in 1vX. Even Sypher yesterday on stream had a hard time against hard hitting stam nightblades for that specific reason. He is built for group play with extremely high damage but doesn't have the sustain for 1vX purposes when too many stam characters are involved.

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I believe it'll be possible to outheal whip/concealed spam even without nirn and only by using Vigor.

Of course this requires a significant amount of CPs & a build focused around weapon dmg/stamina in order to maximize the efficiency of Vigor


Not that you'd ever have to do that, since those two skills will be dodgeable (though I still hear DK whip proc is able to hit dodging players).


Oh, and nice video !

8k Heal per second? Nah bro. :P

If you think about it... I'm currently able to outheal all DK damage on Live with just Vigor and whatever natural health regen I have. My Vigor according to tooltip is currently a 12280 heal unbuffed. This is without crits of course.

After this patch, my 50% (38.2k spell resistance with Shadow Barrier up) will go down to just 34.6% (22.2k with Shadow Barrier up). But, I can also decrease all Magic/Fire damage taken by another 9.6% by getting more CPs (or reallocating points) and I can increase the efficiency of Vigor by a loot more than what I have on live by putting points into Blessed & Quick Recovery (I have atm 65 points in Quick Recovery, 2 in Blessed).

It should be enough to make Vigor extremely strong again, but we'll see.

The thing that most people don't understand is that when they get hit by a 8-10k whip, they figure that it is the standard and that every DK with reasonable amount of CPS (250-300) should have at least 60points in elemental expert to hit that hard.

Problem is, if you put 60points in elemental expert to get those high hitting whips, you won't do any good in 1vX or any kind of small scale (as a magicka DK). Any respectable magicka DK needs the sustain to be able to do any good because of the lack of range abilities and escape moves. So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

I've been hit for 8K whips/concealed weapon *with* Nirn and I'm not a vampire. What I don't understand is how people think using Nirn is cheesy or some kind of game-changer right now. It might give you an average 10-15% reduction in magic damage taken overall if that, yet it costs you a powerful 5 piece and 2-3 other useful traits at the same time.

And as far as CPs and a magicka DK your mage points are going to be spent on either Thamaturge (magic damage), Elemental Mastery (Fire damage) or the Crit Damage increasing points. 60 points into Elemental Mastery from magicka DKs at this point is pretty much expected and most hardcore PvPers are rocking 100 points in their primary damage stat by now.

If you're using drink you should be putting points into Elfborn (Stam Regen), if you use food a mix of Elfborn and Tumbling makes sense.

I don't believe that people should not use nirnhoded at all. I use 2 pieces at the moment and I will keep using 2 pieces after the nerf because it will remain one of the best traits in the game. The problem is when people start using more than 2 pieces which bring way too much spell resistance the way nirnhoded works at the moment.

Also, if you think that a magicka DK with 250-300 CPs should put at least 60 points in Elemental Expert, you have a lot to learn about the class. He will do great in group play for sure but when he's by himself against 2 hard hitting stam nightblade, he will die in a matter of seconds. You simply cannot waste 60 points in Elemental Expert and expect to do any good in 1vX without having your defensive key CPs first. I'm doing good enough with the current setup and I don't think it could work with any less (this is buffed with abilities like entropy, gdb, hardened armor, etc, entropy slotted, epic food and without emperor as a nord vamp) :

- 40k+ spell resistances
- 25k physical resistances
- 26k hps
- 17k stam
- 22k magicka
- 900 stam regen
- 1400 magicka regen
- 2200 spell power

I have 254 CPs and 30 only in elemental expert. I simply cannot put more or I could not do any good in 1vX. Even Sypher yesterday on stream had a hard time against hard hitting stam nightblades for that specific reason. He is built for group play with extremely high damage but doesn't have the sustain for 1vX purposes when too many stam characters are involved.

You know that Regen CPs are Green, and Elemental Expert is Blue right? Cause what you are saying makes no sense about getting your Defensive CPs first as those are Red, Green is reduction/regen and blue is damage.

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I believe it'll be possible to outheal whip/concealed spam even without nirn and only by using Vigor.

Of course this requires a significant amount of CPs & a build focused around weapon dmg/stamina in order to maximize the efficiency of Vigor


Not that you'd ever have to do that, since those two skills will be dodgeable (though I still hear DK whip proc is able to hit dodging players).


Oh, and nice video !

8k Heal per second? Nah bro. :P

If you think about it... I'm currently able to outheal all DK damage on Live with just Vigor and whatever natural health regen I have. My Vigor according to tooltip is currently a 12280 heal unbuffed. This is without crits of course.

After this patch, my 50% (38.2k spell resistance with Shadow Barrier up) will go down to just 34.6% (22.2k with Shadow Barrier up). But, I can also decrease all Magic/Fire damage taken by another 9.6% by getting more CPs (or reallocating points) and I can increase the efficiency of Vigor by a loot more than what I have on live by putting points into Blessed & Quick Recovery (I have atm 65 points in Quick Recovery, 2 in Blessed).

It should be enough to make Vigor extremely strong again, but we'll see.

The thing that most people don't understand is that when they get hit by a 8-10k whip, they figure that it is the standard and that every DK with reasonable amount of CPS (250-300) should have at least 60points in elemental expert to hit that hard.

Problem is, if you put 60points in elemental expert to get those high hitting whips, you won't do any good in 1vX or any kind of small scale (as a magicka DK). Any respectable magicka DK needs the sustain to be able to do any good because of the lack of range abilities and escape moves. So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

I've been hit for 8K whips/concealed weapon *with* Nirn and I'm not a vampire. What I don't understand is how people think using Nirn is cheesy or some kind of game-changer right now. It might give you an average 10-15% reduction in magic damage taken overall if that, yet it costs you a powerful 5 piece and 2-3 other useful traits at the same time.

And as far as CPs and a magicka DK your mage points are going to be spent on either Thamaturge (magic damage), Elemental Mastery (Fire damage) or the Crit Damage increasing points. 60 points into Elemental Mastery from magicka DKs at this point is pretty much expected and most hardcore PvPers are rocking 100 points in their primary damage stat by now.

If you're using drink you should be putting points into Elfborn (Stam Regen), if you use food a mix of Elfborn and Tumbling makes sense.

I don't believe that people should not use nirnhoded at all. I use 2 pieces at the moment and I will keep using 2 pieces after the nerf because it will remain one of the best traits in the game. The problem is when people start using more than 2 pieces which bring way too much spell resistance the way nirnhoded works at the moment.

Also, if you think that a magicka DK with 250-300 CPs should put at least 60 points in Elemental Expert, you have a lot to learn about the class. He will do great in group play for sure but when he's by himself against 2 hard hitting stam nightblade, he will die in a matter of seconds. You simply cannot waste 60 points in Elemental Expert and expect to do any good in 1vX without having your defensive key CPs first. I'm doing good enough with the current setup and I don't think it could work with any less (this is buffed with abilities like entropy, gdb, hardened armor, etc, entropy slotted, epic food and without emperor as a nord vamp) :

- 40k+ spell resistances
- 25k physical resistances
- 26k hps
- 17k stam
- 22k magicka
- 900 stam regen
- 1400 magicka regen
- 2200 spell power

I have 254 CPs and 30 only in elemental expert. I simply cannot put more or I could not do any good in 1vX. Even Sypher yesterday on stream had a hard time against hard hitting stam nightblades for that specific reason. He is built for group play with extremely high damage but doesn't have the sustain for 1vX purposes when too many stam characters are involved.

You know that Regen CPs are Green, and Elemental Expert is Blue right? Cause what you are saying makes no sense about getting your Defensive CPs first as those are Red, Green is reduction/regen and blue is damage.

Ever heard of Blessed ?

Yes...That is one CP, not a lot of CPs.

So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

The bolded parts. How does one sacrifice damage which is blue, to get reduction in green?

I'm not being an ass, I'm genuinely curious on your train of thought on why a DK can't put a lot of points into Elemental Expert and be missing out on defensive CPs in the blue trees. I know of Ripose in the middle one but that is 30 points into basic attacks that you barely use and is a bit of a waste unless you are a perma blocker or have tons of CPs.

I have ~350 CPs and on my magicka DK I've got 100 points into Elemental Expert with the rest in Erosion, Blessed and Elfborn. I have lots of reduction and a bit of regen in green, my red is a lot of block cost and shield increase, healing increase, and damage reduction in Fire/Disease/DoT.

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I believe it'll be possible to outheal whip/concealed spam even without nirn and only by using Vigor.

Of course this requires a significant amount of CPs & a build focused around weapon dmg/stamina in order to maximize the efficiency of Vigor


Not that you'd ever have to do that, since those two skills will be dodgeable (though I still hear DK whip proc is able to hit dodging players).


Oh, and nice video !

8k Heal per second? Nah bro. :P

If you think about it... I'm currently able to outheal all DK damage on Live with just Vigor and whatever natural health regen I have. My Vigor according to tooltip is currently a 12280 heal unbuffed. This is without crits of course.

After this patch, my 50% (38.2k spell resistance with Shadow Barrier up) will go down to just 34.6% (22.2k with Shadow Barrier up). But, I can also decrease all Magic/Fire damage taken by another 9.6% by getting more CPs (or reallocating points) and I can increase the efficiency of Vigor by a loot more than what I have on live by putting points into Blessed & Quick Recovery (I have atm 65 points in Quick Recovery, 2 in Blessed).

It should be enough to make Vigor extremely strong again, but we'll see.

The thing that most people don't understand is that when they get hit by a 8-10k whip, they figure that it is the standard and that every DK with reasonable amount of CPS (250-300) should have at least 60points in elemental expert to hit that hard.

Problem is, if you put 60points in elemental expert to get those high hitting whips, you won't do any good in 1vX or any kind of small scale (as a magicka DK). Any respectable magicka DK needs the sustain to be able to do any good because of the lack of range abilities and escape moves. So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

I've been hit for 8K whips/concealed weapon *with* Nirn and I'm not a vampire. What I don't understand is how people think using Nirn is cheesy or some kind of game-changer right now. It might give you an average 10-15% reduction in magic damage taken overall if that, yet it costs you a powerful 5 piece and 2-3 other useful traits at the same time.

And as far as CPs and a magicka DK your mage points are going to be spent on either Thamaturge (magic damage), Elemental Mastery (Fire damage) or the Crit Damage increasing points. 60 points into Elemental Mastery from magicka DKs at this point is pretty much expected and most hardcore PvPers are rocking 100 points in their primary damage stat by now.

If you're using drink you should be putting points into Elfborn (Stam Regen), if you use food a mix of Elfborn and Tumbling makes sense.

I don't believe that people should not use nirnhoded at all. I use 2 pieces at the moment and I will keep using 2 pieces after the nerf because it will remain one of the best traits in the game. The problem is when people start using more than 2 pieces which bring way too much spell resistance the way nirnhoded works at the moment.

Also, if you think that a magicka DK with 250-300 CPs should put at least 60 points in Elemental Expert, you have a lot to learn about the class. He will do great in group play for sure but when he's by himself against 2 hard hitting stam nightblade, he will die in a matter of seconds. You simply cannot waste 60 points in Elemental Expert and expect to do any good in 1vX without having your defensive key CPs first. I'm doing good enough with the current setup and I don't think it could work with any less (this is buffed with abilities like entropy, gdb, hardened armor, etc, entropy slotted, epic food and without emperor as a nord vamp) :

- 40k+ spell resistances
- 25k physical resistances
- 26k hps
- 17k stam
- 22k magicka
- 900 stam regen
- 1400 magicka regen
- 2200 spell power

I have 254 CPs and 30 only in elemental expert. I simply cannot put more or I could not do any good in 1vX. Even Sypher yesterday on stream had a hard time against hard hitting stam nightblades for that specific reason. He is built for group play with extremely high damage but doesn't have the sustain for 1vX purposes when too many stam characters are involved.

You know that Regen CPs are Green, and Elemental Expert is Blue right? Cause what you are saying makes no sense about getting your Defensive CPs first as those are Red, Green is reduction/regen and blue is damage.

Ever heard of Blessed ?

Yes...That is one CP, not a lot of CPs.

So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

The bolded parts. How does one sacrifice damage which is blue, to get reduction in green?

I'm not being an ass, I'm genuinely curious on your train of thought on why a DK can't put a lot of points into Elemental Expert and be missing out on defensive CPs in the blue trees. I know of Ripose in the middle one but that is 30 points into basic attacks that you barely use and is a bit of a waste unless you are a perma blocker or have tons of CPs.

I have ~350 CPs and on my magicka DK I've got 100 points into Elemental Expert with the rest in Erosion, Blessed and Elfborn. I have lots of reduction and a bit of regen in green, my red is a lot of block cost and shield increase, healing increase, and damage reduction in Fire/Disease/DoT.

I have mentioned one because I am not here to reveal every little detail about my build. I have already said alot about it stats wise. But anyway, my overall point without playing with words was that people focusing on 8-10k hitting whips won't last long in 1vX against great stam characters. That's all.

You can have a build that hits for 8-10k whips against all those pesky nb vamps while having 25k PR 50k SR and running drink so that your stam recovery is around 1200 and mag recovery is around 1800...

But isn't this one of those points where a single player against multiple "great players" shouldn't be able to survive? If I run into two great DK's as a stam nb vamp... I'm gonna die if I don't just run away first. I might be able to hold out against a couple of sorcs for awhile, but what are you gonna do against a couple "great" shield stacking sorcs who also healing ward each other when their buddy is in trouble so even cc locks don't end the fight.

One thing I learned early on, even as a baddie NB, was that two skilled players working together will 9 times out of 10 beat one skilled player. It's just math. If you're used to winning 1v5 fights, then you were able to find 5 players who weren't either working together or particularly great at the game.

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I believe it'll be possible to outheal whip/concealed spam even without nirn and only by using Vigor.

Of course this requires a significant amount of CPs & a build focused around weapon dmg/stamina in order to maximize the efficiency of Vigor


Not that you'd ever have to do that, since those two skills will be dodgeable (though I still hear DK whip proc is able to hit dodging players).


Oh, and nice video !

8k Heal per second? Nah bro. :P

If you think about it... I'm currently able to outheal all DK damage on Live with just Vigor and whatever natural health regen I have. My Vigor according to tooltip is currently a 12280 heal unbuffed. This is without crits of course.

After this patch, my 50% (38.2k spell resistance with Shadow Barrier up) will go down to just 34.6% (22.2k with Shadow Barrier up). But, I can also decrease all Magic/Fire damage taken by another 9.6% by getting more CPs (or reallocating points) and I can increase the efficiency of Vigor by a loot more than what I have on live by putting points into Blessed & Quick Recovery (I have atm 65 points in Quick Recovery, 2 in Blessed).

It should be enough to make Vigor extremely strong again, but we'll see.

The thing that most people don't understand is that when they get hit by a 8-10k whip, they figure that it is the standard and that every DK with reasonable amount of CPS (250-300) should have at least 60points in elemental expert to hit that hard.

Problem is, if you put 60points in elemental expert to get those high hitting whips, you won't do any good in 1vX or any kind of small scale (as a magicka DK). Any respectable magicka DK needs the sustain to be able to do any good because of the lack of range abilities and escape moves. So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

I've been hit for 8K whips/concealed weapon *with* Nirn and I'm not a vampire. What I don't understand is how people think using Nirn is cheesy or some kind of game-changer right now. It might give you an average 10-15% reduction in magic damage taken overall if that, yet it costs you a powerful 5 piece and 2-3 other useful traits at the same time.

And as far as CPs and a magicka DK your mage points are going to be spent on either Thamaturge (magic damage), Elemental Mastery (Fire damage) or the Crit Damage increasing points. 60 points into Elemental Mastery from magicka DKs at this point is pretty much expected and most hardcore PvPers are rocking 100 points in their primary damage stat by now.

If you're using drink you should be putting points into Elfborn (Stam Regen), if you use food a mix of Elfborn and Tumbling makes sense.

I don't believe that people should not use nirnhoded at all. I use 2 pieces at the moment and I will keep using 2 pieces after the nerf because it will remain one of the best traits in the game. The problem is when people start using more than 2 pieces which bring way too much spell resistance the way nirnhoded works at the moment.

Also, if you think that a magicka DK with 250-300 CPs should put at least 60 points in Elemental Expert, you have a lot to learn about the class. He will do great in group play for sure but when he's by himself against 2 hard hitting stam nightblade, he will die in a matter of seconds. You simply cannot waste 60 points in Elemental Expert and expect to do any good in 1vX without having your defensive key CPs first. I'm doing good enough with the current setup and I don't think it could work with any less (this is buffed with abilities like entropy, gdb, hardened armor, etc, entropy slotted, epic food and without emperor as a nord vamp) :

- 40k+ spell resistances
- 25k physical resistances
- 26k hps
- 17k stam
- 22k magicka
- 900 stam regen
- 1400 magicka regen
- 2200 spell power

I have 254 CPs and 30 only in elemental expert. I simply cannot put more or I could not do any good in 1vX. Even Sypher yesterday on stream had a hard time against hard hitting stam nightblades for that specific reason. He is built for group play with extremely high damage but doesn't have the sustain for 1vX purposes when too many stam characters are involved.

You know that Regen CPs are Green, and Elemental Expert is Blue right? Cause what you are saying makes no sense about getting your Defensive CPs first as those are Red, Green is reduction/regen and blue is damage.

Ever heard of Blessed ?

Yes...That is one CP, not a lot of CPs.

So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

The bolded parts. How does one sacrifice damage which is blue, to get reduction in green?

I'm not being an ass, I'm genuinely curious on your train of thought on why a DK can't put a lot of points into Elemental Expert and be missing out on defensive CPs in the blue trees. I know of Ripose in the middle one but that is 30 points into basic attacks that you barely use and is a bit of a waste unless you are a perma blocker or have tons of CPs.

I have ~350 CPs and on my magicka DK I've got 100 points into Elemental Expert with the rest in Erosion, Blessed and Elfborn. I have lots of reduction and a bit of regen in green, my red is a lot of block cost and shield increase, healing increase, and damage reduction in Fire/Disease/DoT.

I have mentioned one because I am not here to reveal every little detail about my build. I have already said alot about it stats wise. But anyway, my overall point without playing with words was that people focusing on 8-10k hitting whips won't last long in 1vX against great stam characters. That's all.

Okay but I'm not asking you to reveal your build here for all to see. I'm asking strictly about the blue CP tree...you mentioned there is a lot of defensive CPs in there but I don't see it? So I went over the trees and heres an outline of what I've found.

There is one single defensive CP, Blessed. Unless you consider Elfborn to be defensive because it increases critical heals, so two. The rest are all increasing either your damage, critical damage, or armor/spell penetration.

For passives the only defensive ones are Riposte which has a 15% chance of doing weapon damage *2 to your attacker once every 10 seconds. Tactician in the same tree which sets your opponents off balance if you roll dodge and their attack misses, but you don't have enough CP for that in your example of 250-300 CP. Opportunist I suppose is defensive, as the 10 point passive in The Ritual which gives you a 15% damage boost on an attack after you interrupt the target. The Atronach has Vengeance which ensures your next spell is a critical after blocking 3 spells.

Is there something I'm not seeing or understanding?

Yah it was pretty clear I was just ignoring sypher for the most part and trying to get on with what my raid lead was calling. It wasn't until I was almost past nikel and then surrounded by 8-10 total that I even tried to engage. But whatever stories we gotta tell ourselves you know?

Also... 8k whip glass cannon build? 16k whip is a glass cannon build. You need some dps perspective...

Yonkit wrote: »

Yah it was pretty clear I was just ignoring sypher for the most part and trying to get on with what my raid lead was calling. It wasn't until I was almost past nikel and then surrounded by 8-10 total that I even tried to engage. But whatever stories we gotta tell ourselves you know?

Also... 8k whip glass cannon build? 16k whip is a glass cannon build. You need some dps perspective...

lol dude.. there were 700players watching stream when that happened. Sypher was attacked by 4 of you very agressively, then he manged to kill 3 of your friends. As soon as he killed the last one, we clearly saw you turning around and running away. At that moment, Sypher hasn't realized yet that you were emperor so he was wondering why you were so hard to kill. Then only after he killed you he read chat and realized it. Good try though

16k whips? Show me a screenshot of someone hitting you for 16k whip with 40k spell resistance and I'm gonna give you 50k gold.

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I believe it'll be possible to outheal whip/concealed spam even without nirn and only by using Vigor.

Of course this requires a significant amount of CPs & a build focused around weapon dmg/stamina in order to maximize the efficiency of Vigor


Not that you'd ever have to do that, since those two skills will be dodgeable (though I still hear DK whip proc is able to hit dodging players).


Oh, and nice video !

8k Heal per second? Nah bro. :P

If you think about it... I'm currently able to outheal all DK damage on Live with just Vigor and whatever natural health regen I have. My Vigor according to tooltip is currently a 12280 heal unbuffed. This is without crits of course.

After this patch, my 50% (38.2k spell resistance with Shadow Barrier up) will go down to just 34.6% (22.2k with Shadow Barrier up). But, I can also decrease all Magic/Fire damage taken by another 9.6% by getting more CPs (or reallocating points) and I can increase the efficiency of Vigor by a loot more than what I have on live by putting points into Blessed & Quick Recovery (I have atm 65 points in Quick Recovery, 2 in Blessed).

It should be enough to make Vigor extremely strong again, but we'll see.

The thing that most people don't understand is that when they get hit by a 8-10k whip, they figure that it is the standard and that every DK with reasonable amount of CPS (250-300) should have at least 60points in elemental expert to hit that hard.

Problem is, if you put 60points in elemental expert to get those high hitting whips, you won't do any good in 1vX or any kind of small scale (as a magicka DK). Any respectable magicka DK needs the sustain to be able to do any good because of the lack of range abilities and escape moves. So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

I've been hit for 8K whips/concealed weapon *with* Nirn and I'm not a vampire. What I don't understand is how people think using Nirn is cheesy or some kind of game-changer right now. It might give you an average 10-15% reduction in magic damage taken overall if that, yet it costs you a powerful 5 piece and 2-3 other useful traits at the same time.

And as far as CPs and a magicka DK your mage points are going to be spent on either Thamaturge (magic damage), Elemental Mastery (Fire damage) or the Crit Damage increasing points. 60 points into Elemental Mastery from magicka DKs at this point is pretty much expected and most hardcore PvPers are rocking 100 points in their primary damage stat by now.

If you're using drink you should be putting points into Elfborn (Stam Regen), if you use food a mix of Elfborn and Tumbling makes sense.

I don't believe that people should not use nirnhoded at all. I use 2 pieces at the moment and I will keep using 2 pieces after the nerf because it will remain one of the best traits in the game. The problem is when people start using more than 2 pieces which bring way too much spell resistance the way nirnhoded works at the moment.

Also, if you think that a magicka DK with 250-300 CPs should put at least 60 points in Elemental Expert, you have a lot to learn about the class. He will do great in group play for sure but when he's by himself against 2 hard hitting stam nightblade, he will die in a matter of seconds. You simply cannot waste 60 points in Elemental Expert and expect to do any good in 1vX without having your defensive key CPs first. I'm doing good enough with the current setup and I don't think it could work with any less (this is buffed with abilities like entropy, gdb, hardened armor, etc, entropy slotted, epic food and without emperor as a nord vamp) :

- 40k+ spell resistances
- 25k physical resistances
- 26k hps
- 17k stam
- 22k magicka
- 900 stam regen
- 1400 magicka regen
- 2200 spell power

I have 254 CPs and 30 only in elemental expert. I simply cannot put more or I could not do any good in 1vX. Even Sypher yesterday on stream had a hard time against hard hitting stam nightblades for that specific reason. He is built for group play with extremely high damage but doesn't have the sustain for 1vX purposes when too many stam characters are involved.

You know that Regen CPs are Green, and Elemental Expert is Blue right? Cause what you are saying makes no sense about getting your Defensive CPs first as those are Red, Green is reduction/regen and blue is damage.

Ever heard of Blessed ?

Yes...That is one CP, not a lot of CPs.

So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

The bolded parts. How does one sacrifice damage which is blue, to get reduction in green?

I'm not being an ass, I'm genuinely curious on your train of thought on why a DK can't put a lot of points into Elemental Expert and be missing out on defensive CPs in the blue trees. I know of Ripose in the middle one but that is 30 points into basic attacks that you barely use and is a bit of a waste unless you are a perma blocker or have tons of CPs.

I have ~350 CPs and on my magicka DK I've got 100 points into Elemental Expert with the rest in Erosion, Blessed and Elfborn. I have lots of reduction and a bit of regen in green, my red is a lot of block cost and shield increase, healing increase, and damage reduction in Fire/Disease/DoT.

I have mentioned one because I am not here to reveal every little detail about my build. I have already said alot about it stats wise. But anyway, my overall point without playing with words was that people focusing on 8-10k hitting whips won't last long in 1vX against great stam characters. That's all.

Okay but I'm not asking you to reveal your build here for all to see. I'm asking strictly about the blue CP tree...you mentioned there is a lot of defensive CPs in there but I don't see it? So I went over the trees and heres an outline of what I've found.

There is one single defensive CP, Blessed. Unless you consider Elfborn to be defensive because it increases critical heals, so two. The rest are all increasing either your damage, critical damage, or armor/spell penetration.

For passives the only defensive ones are Riposte which has a 15% chance of doing weapon damage *2 to your attacker once every 10 seconds. Tactician in the same tree which sets your opponents off balance if you roll dodge and their attack misses, but you don't have enough CP for that in your example of 250-300 CP. Opportunist I suppose is defensive, as the 10 point passive in The Ritual which gives you a 15% damage boost on an attack after you interrupt the target. The Atronach has Vengeance which ensures your next spell is a critical after blocking 3 spells.

Is there something I'm not seeing or understanding?

Once again I'm gonna quote myself here :

But anyway, my overall point without playing with words was that people focusing on 8-10k hitting whips won't last long in 1vX against great stam characters. That's all.

I talked about champion points distribition but it could also be enchants, traits, gear bonuses as a whole that affect your overall damage to be able to pull out thos big whips and giving you less resilience.

Since I´m vampire again I don´t dare to stay melee against DKs.
It´s suicide.. :P

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I believe it'll be possible to outheal whip/concealed spam even without nirn and only by using Vigor.

Of course this requires a significant amount of CPs & a build focused around weapon dmg/stamina in order to maximize the efficiency of Vigor


Not that you'd ever have to do that, since those two skills will be dodgeable (though I still hear DK whip proc is able to hit dodging players).


Oh, and nice video !

8k Heal per second? Nah bro. :P

If you think about it... I'm currently able to outheal all DK damage on Live with just Vigor and whatever natural health regen I have. My Vigor according to tooltip is currently a 12280 heal unbuffed. This is without crits of course.

After this patch, my 50% (38.2k spell resistance with Shadow Barrier up) will go down to just 34.6% (22.2k with Shadow Barrier up). But, I can also decrease all Magic/Fire damage taken by another 9.6% by getting more CPs (or reallocating points) and I can increase the efficiency of Vigor by a loot more than what I have on live by putting points into Blessed & Quick Recovery (I have atm 65 points in Quick Recovery, 2 in Blessed).

It should be enough to make Vigor extremely strong again, but we'll see.

The thing that most people don't understand is that when they get hit by a 8-10k whip, they figure that it is the standard and that every DK with reasonable amount of CPS (250-300) should have at least 60points in elemental expert to hit that hard.

Problem is, if you put 60points in elemental expert to get those high hitting whips, you won't do any good in 1vX or any kind of small scale (as a magicka DK). Any respectable magicka DK needs the sustain to be able to do any good because of the lack of range abilities and escape moves. So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

I've been hit for 8K whips/concealed weapon *with* Nirn and I'm not a vampire. What I don't understand is how people think using Nirn is cheesy or some kind of game-changer right now. It might give you an average 10-15% reduction in magic damage taken overall if that, yet it costs you a powerful 5 piece and 2-3 other useful traits at the same time.

And as far as CPs and a magicka DK your mage points are going to be spent on either Thamaturge (magic damage), Elemental Mastery (Fire damage) or the Crit Damage increasing points. 60 points into Elemental Mastery from magicka DKs at this point is pretty much expected and most hardcore PvPers are rocking 100 points in their primary damage stat by now.

If you're using drink you should be putting points into Elfborn (Stam Regen), if you use food a mix of Elfborn and Tumbling makes sense.

I don't believe that people should not use nirnhoded at all. I use 2 pieces at the moment and I will keep using 2 pieces after the nerf because it will remain one of the best traits in the game. The problem is when people start using more than 2 pieces which bring way too much spell resistance the way nirnhoded works at the moment.

Also, if you think that a magicka DK with 250-300 CPs should put at least 60 points in Elemental Expert, you have a lot to learn about the class. He will do great in group play for sure but when he's by himself against 2 hard hitting stam nightblade, he will die in a matter of seconds. You simply cannot waste 60 points in Elemental Expert and expect to do any good in 1vX without having your defensive key CPs first. I'm doing good enough with the current setup and I don't think it could work with any less (this is buffed with abilities like entropy, gdb, hardened armor, etc, entropy slotted, epic food and without emperor as a nord vamp) :

- 40k+ spell resistances
- 25k physical resistances
- 26k hps
- 17k stam
- 22k magicka
- 900 stam regen
- 1400 magicka regen
- 2200 spell power

I have 254 CPs and 30 only in elemental expert. I simply cannot put more or I could not do any good in 1vX. Even Sypher yesterday on stream had a hard time against hard hitting stam nightblades for that specific reason. He is built for group play with extremely high damage but doesn't have the sustain for 1vX purposes when too many stam characters are involved.

You know that Regen CPs are Green, and Elemental Expert is Blue right? Cause what you are saying makes no sense about getting your Defensive CPs first as those are Red, Green is reduction/regen and blue is damage.

Ever heard of Blessed ?

Yes...That is one CP, not a lot of CPs.

So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

The bolded parts. How does one sacrifice damage which is blue, to get reduction in green?

I'm not being an ass, I'm genuinely curious on your train of thought on why a DK can't put a lot of points into Elemental Expert and be missing out on defensive CPs in the blue trees. I know of Ripose in the middle one but that is 30 points into basic attacks that you barely use and is a bit of a waste unless you are a perma blocker or have tons of CPs.

I have ~350 CPs and on my magicka DK I've got 100 points into Elemental Expert with the rest in Erosion, Blessed and Elfborn. I have lots of reduction and a bit of regen in green, my red is a lot of block cost and shield increase, healing increase, and damage reduction in Fire/Disease/DoT.

I have mentioned one because I am not here to reveal every little detail about my build. I have already said alot about it stats wise. But anyway, my overall point without playing with words was that people focusing on 8-10k hitting whips won't last long in 1vX against great stam characters. That's all.

Okay but I'm not asking you to reveal your build here for all to see. I'm asking strictly about the blue CP tree...you mentioned there is a lot of defensive CPs in there but I don't see it? So I went over the trees and heres an outline of what I've found.

There is one single defensive CP, Blessed. Unless you consider Elfborn to be defensive because it increases critical heals, so two. The rest are all increasing either your damage, critical damage, or armor/spell penetration.

For passives the only defensive ones are Riposte which has a 15% chance of doing weapon damage *2 to your attacker once every 10 seconds. Tactician in the same tree which sets your opponents off balance if you roll dodge and their attack misses, but you don't have enough CP for that in your example of 250-300 CP. Opportunist I suppose is defensive, as the 10 point passive in The Ritual which gives you a 15% damage boost on an attack after you interrupt the target. The Atronach has Vengeance which ensures your next spell is a critical after blocking 3 spells.

Is there something I'm not seeing or understanding?

Once again I'm gonna quote myself here :

But anyway, my overall point without playing with words was that people focusing on 8-10k hitting whips won't last long in 1vX against great stam characters. That's all.

I talked about champion points distribition but it could also be enchants, traits, gear bonuses as a whole that affect your overall damage to be able to pull out thos big whips and giving you less resilience.

I see, so your still dodging the question and now using strawmen...lol

And your question is totally avoiding my point which is why you should not aim for high hitting whips if you want to be successful playing a magicka dk in 1vX. Your point is to try to make me realize that there are not many defense CPs in the blue trees which I agree. I never said there were several of them. I was reffering to the overall distribution of all your points in all the trees. Some people tend to forget great utility points and this is one of the main reason why they won't be able to last long in 1vX, with the damage output or not. It is not only a matter of spending your CPs correctly, but also of the gear bonuses you choose, the enchants, traits, mstone and of the defensive abilities you cast before combat and reapply when needed.

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I believe it'll be possible to outheal whip/concealed spam even without nirn and only by using Vigor.

Of course this requires a significant amount of CPs & a build focused around weapon dmg/stamina in order to maximize the efficiency of Vigor


Not that you'd ever have to do that, since those two skills will be dodgeable (though I still hear DK whip proc is able to hit dodging players).


Oh, and nice video !

8k Heal per second? Nah bro. :P

If you think about it... I'm currently able to outheal all DK damage on Live with just Vigor and whatever natural health regen I have. My Vigor according to tooltip is currently a 12280 heal unbuffed. This is without crits of course.

After this patch, my 50% (38.2k spell resistance with Shadow Barrier up) will go down to just 34.6% (22.2k with Shadow Barrier up). But, I can also decrease all Magic/Fire damage taken by another 9.6% by getting more CPs (or reallocating points) and I can increase the efficiency of Vigor by a loot more than what I have on live by putting points into Blessed & Quick Recovery (I have atm 65 points in Quick Recovery, 2 in Blessed).

It should be enough to make Vigor extremely strong again, but we'll see.

The thing that most people don't understand is that when they get hit by a 8-10k whip, they figure that it is the standard and that every DK with reasonable amount of CPS (250-300) should have at least 60points in elemental expert to hit that hard.

Problem is, if you put 60points in elemental expert to get those high hitting whips, you won't do any good in 1vX or any kind of small scale (as a magicka DK). Any respectable magicka DK needs the sustain to be able to do any good because of the lack of range abilities and escape moves. So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

I've been hit for 8K whips/concealed weapon *with* Nirn and I'm not a vampire. What I don't understand is how people think using Nirn is cheesy or some kind of game-changer right now. It might give you an average 10-15% reduction in magic damage taken overall if that, yet it costs you a powerful 5 piece and 2-3 other useful traits at the same time.

And as far as CPs and a magicka DK your mage points are going to be spent on either Thamaturge (magic damage), Elemental Mastery (Fire damage) or the Crit Damage increasing points. 60 points into Elemental Mastery from magicka DKs at this point is pretty much expected and most hardcore PvPers are rocking 100 points in their primary damage stat by now.

If you're using drink you should be putting points into Elfborn (Stam Regen), if you use food a mix of Elfborn and Tumbling makes sense.

I don't believe that people should not use nirnhoded at all. I use 2 pieces at the moment and I will keep using 2 pieces after the nerf because it will remain one of the best traits in the game. The problem is when people start using more than 2 pieces which bring way too much spell resistance the way nirnhoded works at the moment.

Also, if you think that a magicka DK with 250-300 CPs should put at least 60 points in Elemental Expert, you have a lot to learn about the class. He will do great in group play for sure but when he's by himself against 2 hard hitting stam nightblade, he will die in a matter of seconds. You simply cannot waste 60 points in Elemental Expert and expect to do any good in 1vX without having your defensive key CPs first. I'm doing good enough with the current setup and I don't think it could work with any less (this is buffed with abilities like entropy, gdb, hardened armor, etc, entropy slotted, epic food and without emperor as a nord vamp) :

- 40k+ spell resistances
- 25k physical resistances
- 26k hps
- 17k stam
- 22k magicka
- 900 stam regen
- 1400 magicka regen
- 2200 spell power

I have 254 CPs and 30 only in elemental expert. I simply cannot put more or I could not do any good in 1vX. Even Sypher yesterday on stream had a hard time against hard hitting stam nightblades for that specific reason. He is built for group play with extremely high damage but doesn't have the sustain for 1vX purposes when too many stam characters are involved.

You know that Regen CPs are Green, and Elemental Expert is Blue right? Cause what you are saying makes no sense about getting your Defensive CPs first as those are Red, Green is reduction/regen and blue is damage.

Ever heard of Blessed ?

Yes...That is one CP, not a lot of CPs.

So in the end, a magicka DK must sacrifice alot of damage to get those key champion points such as reducing the cost of dodge rolling and so on if he wanna survive longer and be able to escape bad situations.

People who cry about hard hitting DKs just haven't figured out yet that a hard hitting DK will also be easy to kill because he will lack alot of defensive key CPs. It is just a matter of running him out of stam such as using fear/fossilize/streak/shards/jabs/etc and gg.

The bolded parts. How does one sacrifice damage which is blue, to get reduction in green?

I'm not being an ass, I'm genuinely curious on your train of thought on why a DK can't put a lot of points into Elemental Expert and be missing out on defensive CPs in the blue trees. I know of Ripose in the middle one but that is 30 points into basic attacks that you barely use and is a bit of a waste unless you are a perma blocker or have tons of CPs.

I have ~350 CPs and on my magicka DK I've got 100 points into Elemental Expert with the rest in Erosion, Blessed and Elfborn. I have lots of reduction and a bit of regen in green, my red is a lot of block cost and shield increase, healing increase, and damage reduction in Fire/Disease/DoT.

I have mentioned one because I am not here to reveal every little detail about my build. I have already said alot about it stats wise. But anyway, my overall point without playing with words was that people focusing on 8-10k hitting whips won't last long in 1vX against great stam characters. That's all.

Okay but I'm not asking you to reveal your build here for all to see. I'm asking strictly about the blue CP tree...you mentioned there is a lot of defensive CPs in there but I don't see it? So I went over the trees and heres an outline of what I've found.

There is one single defensive CP, Blessed. Unless you consider Elfborn to be defensive because it increases critical heals, so two. The rest are all increasing either your damage, critical damage, or armor/spell penetration.

For passives the only defensive ones are Riposte which has a 15% chance of doing weapon damage *2 to your attacker once every 10 seconds. Tactician in the same tree which sets your opponents off balance if you roll dodge and their attack misses, but you don't have enough CP for that in your example of 250-300 CP. Opportunist I suppose is defensive, as the 10 point passive in The Ritual which gives you a 15% damage boost on an attack after you interrupt the target. The Atronach has Vengeance which ensures your next spell is a critical after blocking 3 spells.

Is there something I'm not seeing or understanding?

Once again I'm gonna quote myself here :

But anyway, my overall point without playing with words was that people focusing on 8-10k hitting whips won't last long in 1vX against great stam characters. That's all.

I talked about champion points distribition but it could also be enchants, traits, gear bonuses as a whole that affect your overall damage to be able to pull out thos big whips and giving you less resilience.

I see, so your still dodging the question and now using strawmen...lol

And your question is totally avoiding my point which is why you should not aim for high hitting whips if you want to be successful playing a magicka dk in 1vX. Your point is to try to make me realize that there are not many defense CPs in the blue trees which I agree. I never said there were several of them. I was reffering to the overall distribution of all your points in all the trees. Some people tend to forget great utility points and this is one of the main reason why they won't be able to last long in 1vX, with the damage output or not. It is not only a matter of spending your CPs correctly, but also of the gear bonuses you choose, the enchants, traits, mstone and of the defensive abilities you cast before combat and reapply when needed.

Froz, the whole point i believe he is making is that getting high whip damage is completely compartmentalized from getting good sustain. You can get an 8-10k whip and still be beastmode 1vX with just 300ish champs

craigvigneaultub17_ESO wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

To the OP, damn you are good, I fought you at Nikel yesterday and got my behind handed to me. only thing that ever killed you were concealed weapon stuns combined with a bunch of people then jumping in but else people just ran in circles around you!

Thanks man (not for the conceals though )! I think I must have died at least 20 times at Nikel, I was trying really hard to just pull one or two people but it seemed like every time a lot more kept showing up. It was one of those times where I wonder if any people actually play solo in this game. Either way, good fights!

That'd exactly why I use S&B over Bow. When a single build completely destroys your build you either have to accept it or make a tradeoff to counter that build as well. Try Absorb magick and you'll actually end up preferring Magicka NBs over the stam ones!