What Faction is strongest Lorewise?

Lightninvash · August 2015

AD

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

This poll is so flawed because probably no one voting has read any of the lorebooks. I read the lorebooks and listen to the quests and AD is the worst and DC is the best and EP in the middle.

Stranglehands wrote: »

All three of them are made up of nations who have never been able to get along - I think one thing the lore is fairly clear on is that it takes a supernatural conquering force (in the form of Tiber Septim) to get them to settle down. You've probably got to think of the failure modes-

DC: The bretons are supposed to be plagued by infighting between the various aristocrats and their politics is general feudalistic chaos, so King Emeric probably had a pretty huge sword of Damocles over his head before he even got involved with the redguards. Like, the dark brotherhood probably know all the secret passages in his castle inside out. With the redguards you've got a ready made civil war due to the long-standing crown and forbear factions, and they're proud and independent so probably bear the idea of being ruled by a breton king very heavily. The diplomatic marriage is a good idea but it's just one assassination away from catastrophic failure. As for the orcs, it's only a matter of time before they lose interest in fighting for people who hate them, and I don't they could ever be relied on really. On the other hand they're unlikely to be a loose cannon if they do leave. Overall strength rating: 3/5

AD: Altmer live a long time. They don't work like humans, and just aren't impressed by the stuff Ayrenn achieves during her reign. Those deeds just serve to impress the khajiit and bosmer, who are effectively like animals to them because their lives are so comparatively short and violent. Veiled heritance aside, Ayrenn is probably going to be merely tolerated by her fellow altmer for hundreds of years to come. But then again, altmer live a long time so their real political processes take place over centuries rather than years, and they're very good at hiding their strength instead of making a great display of temporal power. I would expect they would fall away from the alliance because they're just not interested in making a play for mainland Tamriel unless they've already seen to it that victory is inevitable (which is what happens in the 4th Era). On the other hand, Summerset isn't under threat from anyone else, it's effectively impregnable. Again it took a supernatural fluke in the form of Tiber Septim for that impregnability to fail.
Whether the other two stay in line depends entirely on whether the altmer keep them in line; they're naturally enemies to each other and to co-operation with other races in general. They would probably not stand up for long against a concerted assault from a powerful foe, the inhospitability of their homelands notwithstanding. Overall strength rating: 4/5

EP: Doomed. The nords and dunmer are both more likely to succeed alone than as an alliance, whereas the argonians aren't really the conquering type - I mean, at the end of the day, they are very much like plants, occupying the areas where they can live comfortably, prudently driving out unfriendly competition and just not feeling the need to expand en masse. Neither, really, are the Dunmer - their whole identity is built around living where nobody else would want to live, and being essentially impossible to conquer on a cultural level (for example, do house Telvanni in any way resemble imperial citizens in Morrowind?) The nords do have a history and culture of conquest, but it's always been on their own terms. In a territorial war, either victory or defeat in any measure would surely fatally fracture the alliance and all three races would turn on each other. Overall strength rating: 1/5

cant tell me people don't read the lore you just havnt read this post yet rex

Moonscythe · August 2015

I like Peanuts.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Ebonheart Pact for three reasons:
1: Almalexia
2: Sotha Sil
3: Vivec

That only works for the Dunmer. Nords couldn't care less about the three and Argonians couldn't care less about any of the various gods. Besides, lore has nothing to do with strength or longevity. The various groups are racially distinct (except between Nords and Imperials and we know how much they like each other) and remain so throughout history with little tolerance for each other. The ESO alliances are all for convenience with the EP being the least likely to be able to put someone on the Ruby thrown and keep them there.

If we take only what the games have shown us then it seems clear that AD aligns much the same even in Skyrim. DC are, in ESO, a bunch of predatory pirates who have to be forced to turn their gaze out on the rest of Tamriel and by Skyrim have splintered. It is interesting that the beginning of ESO has only one active incursion from an outside alliance and that one is DC on EP. In ESO, the EP has nothing in common with its partners nor wants to and that doesn't change by Skyrim.

Callous2208 · August 2015

EP

Because I'm a Nord warrior in every TES game and totally biased! But, also, with respect to the other factions, EP has been war-forged through the Akaviri invasion. Their strength has been measured. The only problem is I don't see any of the races having much interest in the political side of things with the empire. More of a, leave us the hell alone mentality.

waterfairy · August 2015

Arandear wrote: »

someone said AD stays together

Nope they break up and reform several times.

riverdragon72 · August 2015

I like Peanuts.

peanuts have less lag.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · August 2015

EP

I like Peanuts.
milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »
Ebonheart Pact for three reasons:
1: Almalexia
2: Sotha Sil
3: Vivec
Pfft, those jumped-up Chimer magicians masquerading as gods aren't worth Peanuts!!!!

Tell that to Mehrunes Dagon.

TheShadowScout · August 2015

EP

My half-crown contribution...

For the current ESO time, I'd say the Pact is theoretically strongest, lore-wise... though also brittle, and more isolationist then expansionist (at least the dunmer and argonians - the nords would like to conquer all they see, but don't have the budget for it

). While they technically have the most power thanks to having three sort of demigods within their ranks, and the numidium gathering dust somewhere, they are also only fighting in defense, as the dunmer and argonians basically just want to be left alone, and -as has been stated- they are merely an alliance of convinience, and will hold together only as long as the memories of the akaviri invasion from ten years ago and the current three banners war trouble last. Once the external need to band together vanishes, the dunmer will go back to feeling all superior, calling the nords brainless brutes and the argonians beasts of burden; the nord will go back to their meadhalls, and call the dunmer milkdrinkers while forgetting abolut the argonians altogether; and the argonians will go back to their marsh, fend off dunmer slavers and eventually prepare for the events to come in TES:Morrowind & TES:Ovlivion, as the hist warns them of future tidings.

The Covenant is also very fractured, and pretty much only held together my skillful politicing from Emric, and the external threat of the three banners war. As soon as Emric dies, it would start to crumble as various breton families schemed for making their own candidate the next "high king", which more likely then not would have the orcs see this weakness as an opportunity to remind the bretons about an old orsimer saying "Wait 'till next time..." and the redguards might not be too willing to jump into the fire this time, remembering how the bretons had turned on them in an previous alliance against the orcs. I'd count the DC as the weakest of the alliances...

AD is actually the most stable of the alliances, barely missing out on the "strongest" spot in my eyes only due to not having some semi-demigods like the tribunal to call on for emergencies. The Bosmer and Khajiit have always been friendly enough, so no tension there, and while noone really likes the stuck up altmer and their "better then thou" attitude, the bosmer can put up with it due to their "cousin" status, and the khajiit just make dirty jokes about it behind the altmers backs (and occasionally go and secude their wives with their furry wiles

) The only real weakness they have is the "veiled heritage" type altmer who always try to fu... uhm... fudge things up for everyone until they get their "altmer supremacy" worldview made reality. But them aside, its no surprise that in the lore, the dominion always gets reconstructed now and then, while the other two factions fall apart a generation or so after the events in ESO...

One faction forgotten is the Empire... which right now is at its lowest, barely worth mentioning, a corpse for the three factions to fight over... though of course, all that will change in about 300 or so years with Tiber Septim.

AngryNord · August 2015

DC

Selique wrote: »

They're also the only race to invade Oblivion during the Oblivion crisis.

This game takes place about 800 years before the Oblivion crisis...

Selique · August 2015

EP

AngryNord wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

They're also the only race to invade Oblivion during the Oblivion crisis.

This game takes place about 800 years before the Oblivion crisis...

Doesn't change the Argonians' personality, style, or skill.

nothing2591 · August 2015

DC

DC ofc, they have castels and a king and if you look a cities on the dc side they just seem much more wealthy , AD lives in tree houses and EP have argonians

starkerealm · August 2015

Selique wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

They're also the only race to invade Oblivion during the Oblivion crisis.

This game takes place about 800 years before the Oblivion crisis...

Doesn't change the Argonians' personality, style, or skill.

While the Argonians are seriously badass, I kinda suspect their actions during the Oblivion Crisis had more to do with Black Marsh being more messed up than most planes of Oblivion, and less with them being the most badass badasses that ever badassed on Tamriel.

Selique · August 2015

EP

starkerealm wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

They're also the only race to invade Oblivion during the Oblivion crisis.

This game takes place about 800 years before the Oblivion crisis...

Doesn't change the Argonians' personality, style, or skill.

While the Argonians are seriously badass, I kinda suspect their actions during the Oblivion Crisis had more to do with Black Marsh being more messed up than most planes of Oblivion, and less with them being the most badass badasses that ever badassed on Tamriel.

Maybe.... Or maybe they really are just that badass

RedTalon · August 2015

I like Peanuts.

The sea elves

tplink3r1 · August 2015

AD

Stranglehands wrote: »

whereas the argonians aren't really the conquering type - I mean, at the end of the day, they are very much like plants

lol.
I think both EP and AD are very strong, but EP has too many political problems. Dunmer and Nords in the same alliance? That can't go right.
DC are just peasants.

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2015

I like Peanuts.

The Cyrodiilic Empire, which you neglected to include. They were the only faction that conquered all of Tamriel.

snackrat · August 2015

AD

AD I'd say. The bosmer and khajiit seem satisfied with their alliance, Veiled Heritance notwithstanding.

For DC, the orcs are mistrustful of both redguards and bretons, due to their history of sacking the orcs' territories over and over again.
For EP, there are the obvious tensions between slavers and slaves - dunmer and argonian. The nords are kind of the odd man out, but they still think "ugh elves" while dunmer think "ugh apemen".

Eriquito3 · August 2015

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Ebonheart Pact for three reasons:
1: Almalexia
2: Sotha Sil
3: Vivec

Those 3 dont do anything. They are losing their power trying to keep Dagoth Ur under red mountain.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · August 2015

AD

I'm going to say AD, my reasoning being based on the fact that we hadn't even HEARD of the Ebonheart Pact or the Daggerfall Covenant in the Third and Fourth Era games, suggesting to me that the Aldmeri Dominion lasted the longest of the three and/or left the deepest mark on history. The other two alliances didn't even survive well enough to be remembered.

BullNetch · August 2015

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Ebonheart Pact for three reasons:
1: Almalexia
2: Sotha Sil
3: Vivec

The Bosmer have their own Triumvirate, too.

The Green Lady
Silvenar
Wilderking

The High Elves horde powerful ancient artifacts and high elf wizards that can go Mannimarco on you.

Ebonheart Pact... strongest ground troops, most battle hardened. Nords and Dunmer are the tough guys. Argonians have scales.
Aldmeri Dominion... most well rounded. Best at jungle warfare. Best spies.
Daggerfall Covenant... strongest Navy. Bretons and Redguards are fighting to restore the continental economy.

F7sus4 · August 2015

AD

Really nice to see AD (40%) on the first place, peanuts on the second (31%) and then the rest of the peasants -- I mean, even more peanus.

Prof_Bawbag · August 2015

Purely going on Skyrim, the AD would win the day. Why, because my crystal ball tells me something bad is gonna happen in Morrowind, something bad is gonna happen in Cyrodiil and the AD [Altmer] are gonna use this to their advantage, whilst shitting all over the Bosmer in the process.

PBpsy · August 2015

I like Peanuts.

.

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Purely going on Skyrim, the AD would win the day. Why, because my crystal ball tells me something bad is gonna happen in Morrowind, something bad is gonna happen in Cyrodiil and the AD [Altmer] are gonna use this to their advantage, whilst shitting all over the Bosmer in the process.

The AD from Skyrim is not the same AD from TESO. The fact that they involve the Altmer and the name is kind of the only thing they have in common.

What happens is that they break up and at some point some other completely new entity forms and decides to use the name.The new AD also falls and then after quite some time yet another entity forms and uses the name. This third AD is the one from TES 5. There is no conclusion that can be drawn about the short term future following TESO from the later ADs.

Prof_Bawbag · August 2015

PBpsy wrote: »

.

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Purely going on Skyrim, the AD would win the day. Why, because my crystal ball tells me something bad is gonna happen in Morrowind, something bad is gonna happen in Cyrodiil and the AD [Altmer] are gonna use this to their advantage, whilst shitting all over the Bosmer in the process.

The AD from Skyrim is not the same AD from TESO. The fact that they involve the Altmer and the name is kind of the only thing they have in common.

What happens is that they break up and at some point some other completely new entity forms and decides to use the name.The new AD also falls and then after quite some time yet another entity forms and uses the name. This third AD is the one from TES 5. There is no conclusion that can be drawn about the short term future following TESO from the later ADs.

I know all that. Hence the reason I used my crystal ball rather than seriously state "the AD for the reasons I have given". Jeez, I'd hate to be the guy who steps on the toes of the lore buffs. Oh wait ...

Resipsa131 · August 2015

Egonieser wrote: »

Nords and Dunmer hate each other... But they hate Altmer more.

Its far more likely that the EP and DC align to screw over the AD. Then they divvy up Cyrodil and go back to enslaving Argonians and hanging out in Morrowwind

Darlgon · August 2015

I like Peanuts.

Well, since your char plays all of them thru Cadwell...

None of them. I take Peanuts.

jkemmery · August 2015

I like Peanuts.

Lightninvash wrote: »

the queen is obviously the boss of the other 2

Queen Kate can be my boss any time ...

starkerealm · August 2015

PBpsy wrote: »

.

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Purely going on Skyrim, the AD would win the day. Why, because my crystal ball tells me something bad is gonna happen in Morrowind, something bad is gonna happen in Cyrodiil and the AD [Altmer] are gonna use this to their advantage, whilst shitting all over the Bosmer in the process.

The AD from Skyrim is not the same AD from TESO. The fact that they involve the Altmer and the name is kind of the only thing they have in common.

What happens is that they break up and at some point some other completely new entity forms and decides to use the name.The new AD also falls and then after quite some time yet another entity forms and uses the name. This third AD is the one from TES 5. There is no conclusion that can be drawn about the short term future following TESO from the later ADs.

Interestingly, though, the Thalmor are the same organization. I'd made the mistake of thinking there were a new group co-opting the name, until I was reading something in Skyrim (The Rising Threat, I think), and noticed that, no, after the Oblivion crisis they became more aggressive, but they'd always been, basically what we see in ESO.

chevalierknight · August 2015

DC

Dc all 3 races a war races orcs strongholds warriers tribes redgards and bretons who war all the time

DaveMoeDee · August 2015

AD

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

None of them are stronger, which is why we have a three way deadlock going on right now. If one of them was stronger, the other two would either band together and wipe them out, or the stronger faction would sweep the other two and control all of Tamriel and the game would be pointless.

The deadlock is just to make 3 alliance PvP work. It is very artificial, groups together groups that hate each other, and ignores inherent strengths of regions. It is lore-irrelevant. The OP asked 'lore-wise'.

Darlgon · August 2015

I like Peanuts.

starkerealm wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

.

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Purely going on Skyrim, the AD would win the day. Why, because my crystal ball tells me something bad is gonna happen in Morrowind, something bad is gonna happen in Cyrodiil and the AD [Altmer] are gonna use this to their advantage, whilst shitting all over the Bosmer in the process.

The AD from Skyrim is not the same AD from TESO. The fact that they involve the Altmer and the name is kind of the only thing they have in common.

What happens is that they break up and at some point some other completely new entity forms and decides to use the name.The new AD also falls and then after quite some time yet another entity forms and uses the name. This third AD is the one from TES 5. There is no conclusion that can be drawn about the short term future following TESO from the later ADs.

Interestingly, though, the Thalmor are the same organization. I'd made the mistake of thinking there were a new group co-opting the name, until I was reading something in Skyrim (The Rising Threat, I think), and noticed that, no, after the Oblivion crisis they became more aggressive, but they'd always been, basically what we see in ESO.

PRETTY SURE one of the quests related to the Thalmor in Skyrim said something like, "The Thalmor disappeared from the scene in xxx 2E. A new group found their ideology and adapted it to their own purposes after the Summerset Isles left the Empire and the fall of the White Gold Tower." (Been too long, cant remember the wording.)