Grim Focus, how to make it more appealing!

Kerioko · August 2015

I run a magicka NB and my current primary dps rotation involves the core funnel cripple rotation. The only twist is every time I refresh entropy, I fire off merciless resolve and refresh it (get great use of the might of the guild passive) and it works pretty well in my rotation.

I really like the new change of having it only take 4 light attacks to proc, however, having to recast the ability to allow it to proc again makes using it after every 4th light attack weave an actual dps loss over the way I use it above.

Right now it seems that a majority of the people that use this skill only slot it for the 8% damage buff, and hardly every use the actual damage skill from it!

I think this skill would work a lot better if firing the arrow automatically refreshed the 20 second timer, instead of canceling the skill!

Draehl · August 2015

I agree and have said several times it should take 5-6 light attacks to proc, but using the projectile should re-start the original skill buff also. It makes it a little weaker, but gives significantly better combat flow.

Kerioko · August 2015

Draehl wrote: »

I agree and have said several times it should take 5-6 light attacks to proc, but using the projectile should re-start the original skill buff also. It makes it a little weaker, but gives significantly better combat flow.

5-6 would be perfect as it would be up every time you went to refresh cripple, letting the core of the rotation become:

cripple --> light attack/funnel weave x6 --> merciless resolve --> repeat

Elijah_Crow · August 2015

I agree with the effect being auto fired and auto recasting. This makes it worth weaving.

Yakidafi · August 2015

Sound good, tough 4 lm should stay in a pvp perspective, doubt anyone will use it anyhow in pvp but maybe with molag keena someone might think it worthwile.

imo

Kerioko · August 2015

Yakidafi wrote: »

Sound good, tough 4 lm should stay in a pvp perspective, doubt anyone will use it anyhow in pvp but maybe with molag keena someone might think it worthwile.

imo

I tested it with 5 overwhelming surge and molag kena using just light attacks, entropy and merciless resolve:
4 light attacks --> double tap merciless resolve --> repeat while trying to reapply entropy before every 3rd merciless resolve (to get the most out of might of the guild, while not losing cast time on unneeded entropy casts)

Granted these tests where done just rocking mammoths in cyrodiil, I was able to sustain 10-14K. Merciless resolve would crit for around 35K with both set procs. Not completely min/maxed, but good enough to give you an interesting playstyle. You would really need the auto reapply to make this work in any serious gaming situation aside from the goofing around I was doing!

Xeniph · August 2015

Just make it a long term buff. And it's poor design having to refresh it after using the proc, with time still on the buff.

SeptimusDova · August 2015

It should also have a different sound indicating it is ready to be used versus the little visual. And the sounds can even be race unique.

Argonian Grim Focus audible indicator = Godzilla Roar

Khajiit = Meow mix song clip

Nord= Mead Song

Dunmer= Morrowind theme music

Bosmer= Spam song

Altimer= rude voice

Orc= Moar

Breton= bells

Imperial = toilet flushing ( Sewers you know)

Redguard= daggerfall themed music

helediron · August 2015

Totally agree with OP. The same issue appeared already during 1.6 PTS testing. The double click is clunky and effectively halves the DPS.

pjwb16_ESO · August 2015

23 k uncrit hits on players is unappealing for you? lol

Kerioko · August 2015

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

23 k uncrit hits on players is unappealing for you? lol

I actually, really love the skill. I run it as a healer in pvp. Light attack weave with my resto staff as I spam springs, then spot an enemy at or below 75% health....BAM! 1-shot from the healer! Also used it to kill gankers, when I have it up and they try to jump the healer in the back!

As others have stated though, even with the number of light attacks decreased to 4, the skill will not be used for anything more than its 8% dmg buff because of the cast time it takes to launch it and reapply the buff.

Cast and reapply takes me about 1.8-2.5 sec. for 20-30K dmg given its clunkyness. In the same time, I can cast 3 funnel health weaves for 25-35K dmg!

AssaultLemming · August 2015

Would be fantastic if this skill could re apply itself, it would actually be worth using for more than the dang buff

olsborg · August 2015

Agreed, its a bit of a hassle that you have to reuse the grim focus right after your arrow is shot, again. Makes the using and refreshing of this a bit clunky.

pjwb16_ESO · August 2015

Kerioko wrote: »

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

23 k uncrit hits on players is unappealing for you? lol

I actually, really love the skill. I run it as a healer in pvp. Light attack weave with my resto staff as I spam springs, then spot an enemy at or below 75% health....BAM! 1-shot from the healer! Also used it to kill gankers, when I have it up and they try to jump the healer in the back!

As others have stated though, even with the number of light attacks decreased to 4, the skill will not be used for anything more than its 8% dmg buff because of the cast time it takes to launch it and reapply the buff.

Cast and reapply takes me about 1.8-2.5 sec. for 20-30K dmg given its clunkyness. In the same time, I can cast 3 funnel health weaves for 25-35K dmg!

Its about the burst you get

kojou · August 2015

Personally I'd rather they just made it grant Major Brutality and whatever the equivalent spell damage increase is and forget the silly spectral arrow. It is really hard to get the shot off smoothly in a rotation so I just use it for the stamina and minor buff... either that or have it fire off the spectral arrow automatically after the 4th light attack.

Strider_Roshin · August 2015

I'm happy with the change. Now it's actually usable in PvP. If they changed it to 5-6, they would just be making it a PvE proc like it is now.

ChefZero · August 2015

I prefer an auto-proc-mechanic. To activate the proc is more annoying than recast the buff in my opinion.

ToRelax · August 2015

I wouldn't have a problem with it if the duration would just be refreshed when you use the bow.
However, since the OP seems to be talking about PvE, wouldn't the best way to handle this be to wait until the buff has nearly run out before using the bow, then refresh the buff anyway?
So I don't quite see whats not appealing on that skill (and in PvP it will be used a lot for sure).

AhPook_Is_Here · August 2015

Kerioko wrote: »

I run a magicka NB and my current primary dps rotation involves the core funnel cripple rotation. The only twist is every time I refresh entropy, I fire off merciless resolve and refresh it (get great use of the might of the guild passive) and it works pretty well in my rotation.

I really like the new change of having it only take 4 light attacks to proc, however, having to recast the ability to allow it to proc again makes using it after every 4th light attack weave an actual dps loss over the way I use it above.

Right now it seems that a majority of the people that use this skill only slot it for the 8% damage buff, and hardly every use the actual damage skill from it!

I think this skill would work a lot better if firing the arrow automatically refreshed the 20 second timer, instead of canceling the skill!

I think this is a good idea. They should also do the same for molten/igneous weapons, if you do a heavy inside the 8 second buff it refreshes. So boring recasting buffs for any class.

Farorin · August 2015

I like the skill, but I only really use it for the buff not for the damage due to the clunkyness of it. I try to use it for the attack, but... eh... It's just kinda not worth it.

Altyrann · August 2015

This would be a great quality of life improvement. It is currently hard to tell if the double click had worked or been badly timed, and because of the nature of the skill there is not much opportunity to practice with it on normal mobs.

TheBull · August 2015

If you proc and cast the proc, you don't have to recast again in order for it to proc again. It resets on it's own.

Altyrann · August 2015

ChefZero wrote: »

I prefer an auto-proc-mechanic. To activate the proc is more annoying than recast the buff in my opinion.

Would it then be optimal to recast immediately after it procs? This could give an interesting choice between casting once every 20 seconds for the buff and one proc per cast, or recasting after the automatic proc to maximise damage.

Altyrann · August 2015

How about automatic proc EVERY 4 light attacks while buff is active, I.e. can proc more than one within 20 seconds, but with lower damage per hit. This would both make for a 20 second refresh cycle and even out the burst a bit.

F7sus4 · August 2015

Kerioko wrote: »

Granted these tests where done just rocking mammoths in cyrodiil, I was able to sustain 10-14K.

Which is pretty much the same as medium attack weaving and Funnel Health alone.

During the time you spent on triggering Merciless Resolve's bow attack [1. initial (re)cast = no damage, 2. hit], you'd cast 2 Funnel Healths which is 99% of DPS output. This part of the ability is not DPS/time-beneficial at all.

The main gain with Merciless Resolve is, obviously, the damage buff. But since now you can fire the bow after 4th light attack, you'll need to reapply Merciless Resolve more often thus wasting even more time, thus not getting noticeable DPS increase at all.

In the end, you'll just make your rotation more fingerbreaking with close to no gain.

The ability should be:

Toggle skill (damage buff vs wasting a skill slot; similar to how Dawnbreaker worked)
Skill that would activate every 4-5th light/heavy attack granting the possibility to fire the bow (without a constant need of reapply)

Which is not likely to happen, so we're wasting our breaths.

Maulkin · August 2015

Ideally what you guys want is for the skill to work like Sorc's Crystal Frags. Passively activating and prompting you with you only having to actively fire it, until it procs again.

And though that would probably be alright for PvE DPS balance, I'm concerned that in PvP that would be a game changer and set NBs apart as by far the strongest class.

NB has a strong DoT (Cripple), two excellent spammable damage dealers (CW and Swallow Soul), best CC in game (Fear), two good escape mechanics (shadow image and cloak) and great mobility. Add an easily proc'able nuke into that mix and I don't know why everyone wouldn't be a NB.

Duukar · August 2015

This is a spike ability and would be OP if it was any easier to implement. Paired with Fear and a Soul harvest into The Arrow you are hitting for 20k without a crit........

F7sus4 · August 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

NB has a strong DoT (Cripple), two excellent spammable damage dealers (CW and Swallow Soul), best CC in game (Fear)

BS. Crippling Grasp is barely better than not using it at all when comparing to Funnel Health-spam alone. This won't kill you in PvP either unless you have massive L2P issues.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ideally what you guys want is for the skill to work like Sorc's Crystal Frags. Passively activating and prompting you with you only having to actively fire it, until it procs again.

Can't see a Crystal Frags similarity in the suggestion. I'd say - Dawnbreaker, since the Merciless Resolve proc damage is sh!t anyway and in no way comparable to Frags burst+utility.

Kerioko · August 2015

To keep it from being OP, I would be happy if it went back to 7 light attacks to proc if it would just reapply the buff upon cast. This would make it useful in a PVE rotation as it would proc at about the same time you want to reapply cripple (every 7-8 sec).

As far as PVP goes, the 4 light attacks still won't cause the ability to get more use from magicka NB's as we don't have the skill slots for it, and most magicka NB's run duel wield on offensive bar for extra damage, meaning we won't want to light attack.

Typical magicka NB already has 8 slots that are pretty mandatory and the other two are full of competition:

4 to maximize cloak:
1- cripple for speed buff, debuff
2 - purge to cleanse piercing mark (and other dots that seem to still pull us out of cloak)
3 - concealed weapon for the stealth speed boost
4 - cloak itself

4 for heals, buffs, and defense:
1 - harness magicka for shield
2 - healing ward for self heal
3 - sap or entropy for major sorcery (and might of the guild when applicable)
4 - fear as our only hard CC (maybe agony now that it is instant)

The other two slots are usually taken up by 2 of the following:
1 - piercing mark - debuff and heal
2 - prox. detonation - burst and AOE
3 - destructive touch - knockback with flame staff
4 - unmorphed ambush - gap closer
5 - double take - defense and mobility
6 - shade - for teleport

If you run destro/resto I can see it possibly getting a little use, but I think the fact you have to take that extra second to reapply it will still cause it to not be used in PVP, when there are other skills more useful for those slots! Like someone said above, you can weave funnel health or concealed weapon a few times to get the same damage in the same amount of time it takes to cause the arrow and reapply the buff!