Crime needs fixing

starkerealm · August 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Remember kids, fix your pets and any stray criminals you come across in Tamriel.

We're already fixed, as it were. Trying to fix the fixing.
BTW, that's unconstitutional. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinner_v._Oklahoma

Unfortunately, the United States Constitution was never ratified by any Tamerillic Empire. So, while the citation is a nice touch... it's also completely irrelevant.

ZakuBeta · August 2015

My problem with the thieving system, is that it is the best way to make money. I made in 20 minutes of stealing stuff in town, what I made in 4 hours of questing/delving. Far to good of a reward for thieving, or not enough for fighting mobs at a higher level than me. I do the orange and red quests whenever possible. I do the green quests as an oops forgot to do that one.

Prof_Bawbag · August 2015

I'm still perplexed to this day that in Skyrim you could kill npcs in front of guards and other npcs and were treated leniently. Kill a chicken in a town or city, the entire city would kerb stomp your head. Even out in the wild, kill a chicken and if you left one alive, the remaining chicken could report the crime to the authorities.

Prof_Bawbag · August 2015

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

People want things to be more real,..then make the guards killable.Not becausee I want to go aroun killing them,but if I get caught thieving,there IS that option to flee.Only thing is,you cant flee.The kill you instantly,or fight you until your fingers die of exhaustion! In reality they'd die. Plus,I always wonder how they can tell I have stolen anything? Those who accuse you are usually indoors.They dont run outside and find a guard. If you make it outside,how can they tell you have anything on you??

You might not, but there are plenty of people who would wipe entire cities/towns with their buddies. Some already attempt to do so.

starkerealm · August 2015

ZakuBeta wrote: »

My problem with the thieving system, is that it is the best way to make money. I made in 20 minutes of stealing stuff in town, what I made in 4 hours of questing/delving. Far to good of a reward for thieving, or not enough for fighting mobs at a higher level than me. I do the orange and red quests whenever possible. I do the green quests as an oops forgot to do that one.

At higher levels this flips. At vet, I get more out of an hour of questing and killing things than I will from burning my entire fence limit. At ~level 30-40, it's a wash. Below that, larceny is the way to go.

Rikal · August 2015

I'm in the camp that thinks OP has it totally backwards. Crime needs fixing but it needs to be harder, not easier, to get away with crime. I'll accept having guards in unrealistic places if that's what it takes, no problemo.

CapnPhoton · August 2015

GreySix wrote: »

I like the system as it is. Stupid and careless criminals get mercilessly curb-stomped. Frankly, it's too easy on criminals right now.

Bring in the Justice system so my character can ruthlessly hunt down and destroy criminal scum, and then I'll support some of the OP's ideas.

This sounds good.

KiraTsukasa · August 2015

"Crime needs fixing."

Do I need to call Batman?

Artheiron · August 2015

-guards shouldn't be immortal killing machines
-we need a prison, and a prison break fun
-bounty link between cities or maybe factions needs to be broken.
-bounty hunter system needs to be added, yes pvp portion of the justice system
-in future when they decide to add stuff like housing, some of these useless stolen items needs to be converted to decorations or something more useful. looks a little cheap when you steal something and the item you stole is all about name and a RP story tooltip.

ok this part is all about pvp and cyrodiil and totally unrealistic please don't read it if you don't like long texts.

- after reaching crazy amount of bounty, bounty stops. your faction banishes you and you join the 4th faction with bunch of criminals like you. island with bunch of outlaws. an area open for pvp and there can be a pve dungeon etc. you gain a skill tree different than mages and fighters guild but you lose both guilds skill trees.
- this island can be invaded and with pvp you can gain and lose stuff something similar to tel var stones. let's call them hell var stones. : P
- as the 4th faction they have different plans, they don't care crowning an emperor but to assassinate him. destory the system all together. (anarchy in the eso) in cyrodiil they have a base in area where the anvil was. places like kvatch skingard and all other villages can be attacked by these bandits, npcs murdered and houses burned while you are gaining alliance points and the stones by killing players.
- after villages successfully attacked, these places can be used as new bases. and they can block the links between the keeps once every city in cyrodiil captured, emperor loses some of his emp buffs, resources can't provide materials to improve keeps. until he/she gets these cities back.
- with underground tunnels they can port between their captured villages.
- of course they need to fight against molag bal forces like all men do. after capturing cloud ruler temple they can make a ritual and curse all 3 factions and the guy who's on top their leaderboard becomes the crimelord gains similar emp buffs.

giving up crime - willingly

-you need to purchase a letter from a npc or the crown store, consume it and go to your capital city. 2 guards take you the judge and you lose all the gold, tv/hv stones, ap, and ap ranks you have. and you serve your time in a cell for a really long time without a chance to break free. after released, you'll need to visit aedric shirnes, donate gold daily for a certain amount of time. duration of this depends on the currencies you had when you turned yourself in. if you don't pay it, you recieve a "burden of guilt" debuff that hinders your abilities and combat effectiveness. and debuff increases for each day you don't pay. also this can be reduced by being a successful soldier in pvp/pve lands, so stay on shining parts of the leaderboards.

unwillingly

-each time you get defeated in pvp areas your "heat" increases. once it's fully done you'll be ported to your old faction's capital city, you'll loose all of your currencies and your items will be confiscated. you won't be send to prison instead they'll send you to mines, you'll be mining there for a while. after compeleting the task they gave to you, you'll donate gold. same as above. oh btw, there are 2 ways to get your confiscated items back, 1. when the time you'll be forced to donate ends, 2 of course, just like in any tes game, you'll need to steal them back. and it won't be easy.

-

-

Kozer · August 2015

I agree with the OP on most of the points as well as the guy that said guards should watch their tongue. Seriously. Back talk me again and see what my sword says.

UrQuan · August 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

ZakuBeta wrote: »

My problem with the thieving system, is that it is the best way to make money. I made in 20 minutes of stealing stuff in town, what I made in 4 hours of questing/delving. Far to good of a reward for thieving, or not enough for fighting mobs at a higher level than me. I do the orange and red quests whenever possible. I do the green quests as an oops forgot to do that one.

At higher levels this flips. At vet, I get more out of an hour of questing and killing things than I will from burning my entire fence limit. At ~level 30-40, it's a wash. Below that, larceny is the way to go.

Pretty much this. If you're good at it (ie. you're not getting caught) you can make probably about 10K gold in an hour or so of stealing stuff (with the actual amount varying based on your fence limit and whether you're fencing everything or just the more valuable stuff - by doing just the more valuable stuff you make more before hitting your fence limit, but it takes you longer to do). That's the same regardless of your level. At low levels you could spend 5 hours questing and not make that much. At higher levels (when you're almost at vet rank, and when you're VR1-14) if you're not making more than 10K gold in every hour of questing, you're doing something wrong.

Spottswoode · August 2015

Incoming wall....

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

"Crime needs fixing."

Do I need to call Batman?

We have plenty of invincible super heroes running around to fight crime.

starkerealm wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Remember kids, fix your pets and any stray criminals you come across in Tamriel.

We're already fixed, as it were. Trying to fix the fixing.
BTW, that's unconstitutional. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinner_v._Oklahoma

Unfortunately, the United States Constitution was never ratified by any Tamerillic Empire. So, while the citation is a nice touch... it's also completely irrelevant.

Guess we need to build a portal to Tamriel.

starkerealm wrote: »

ZakuBeta wrote: »

My problem with the thieving system, is that it is the best way to make money. I made in 20 minutes of stealing stuff in town, what I made in 4 hours of questing/delving. Far to good of a reward for thieving, or not enough for fighting mobs at a higher level than me. I do the orange and red quests whenever possible. I do the green quests as an oops forgot to do that one.

At higher levels this flips. At vet, I get more out of an hour of questing and killing things than I will from burning my entire fence limit. At ~level 30-40, it's a wash. Below that, larceny is the way to go.

As far as income goes, stealing isn't the best way to get money but it is the fastest way to make some small cash. Once you get done with Cadwell's questing, it's really the only source of income you can get regularly aside from Cyrodiil quests and pvp.
Stealing is certainly faster than grinding items.

rhaulikkoub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm in the camp that thinks OP has it totally backwards. Crime needs fixing but it needs to be harder, not easier, to get away with crime. I'll accept having guards in unrealistic places if that's what it takes, no problemo.

This is how I read this.

Chaos_Deception · August 2015

Here's a Relevant Question.

How will Thieves be Notified when they are being Pursued by a Player Enforcer. And how will Player Enforcers be Identified by the Thief.

Also what is to Stop Enforcers from Waiting around Market Zones, to Wait for a Thief to Commit a Crime.

Seems like an Easy Bust for the Enforcers.

Spottswoode · August 2015

Chaos_Deception wrote: »

Here's a Relevant Question.

How will Thieves be Notified when they are being Pursued by a Player Enforcer. And how will Player Enforcers be Identified by the Thief.

Also what is to Stop Enforcers from Waiting around Market Zones, to Wait for a Thief to Commit a Crime.

Seems like an Easy Bust for the Enforcers.

One would assume thieves would be flagged for combat and Enforcers would be visible with the red outline as enemies are. Similar to how guards are outlined when you are KOS.

Stealing isn't probably going to get you flagged for Enforcers. We're probably going to have a monetary limitation (required bounty amount) before Enforcers can go after you. Stealing a tomato isn't going to flag you for PVP, most likely. (Then again, with the market value of tomatoes....) I don't think Enforcers camping high crime spots will be a problem if there is a buildup required.
Well...other than players ganking said flagged criminal.

Shimmer · August 2015

sounds like someone had a bad experience...

Also buy some invisibility potions

Shimmer · August 2015

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

"Crime needs fixing."

Do I need to call Batman?

Dekkameron · August 2015

Crime is a *** that needs wiping out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxY5fDn5sjQ

Spottswoode · August 2015

Sylance9 wrote: »

sounds like someone had a bad experience...

Also buy some invisibility potions

Yeah that two seconds every three minutes is a lifesaver. Totally corrects all of the other problems. NB's are matched against the stealth of my invis pots. (Not saying they should be equal, but it's not anywhere near the potency it needs be to assist with thievery.)

Spottswoode · August 2015

Here's a few videos highlighting the peripheral vision problem.

https://youtu.be/9U3RYhnS920

https://youtu.be/tD5kQP-mBIU
Now, I can sneak past the guard in the first example.

Rikal · August 2015

The problem with crime is they won't implement "real" punishments. People wouldn't have it. Without "real" punishments they have to fudge up other stuff to deter crime or else crime runs rampant to a ridiculous extent. That's not a game I'm interested in playing.

-guards shouldn't be immortal killing machines

What are you talking about? Guards can't kill you. Your characters don't die. They magically reappear no matter what you do. Players are immortal and face no serious consequences for their crimes, so to compensate they have to make guards OP and put them in "unrealistic" places.

DaveMoeDee · August 2015

Nothing should be done to make stealing easier.

I don't get the complaint of the OP that he can't safely hang out outside the refuge. Uh, go inside. Simple. Or stand by the back door that is outside of town. There is no reason why you should feel safe by the refuge door in town.

If you are referring to the door outside of town, yeah, that shouldn't have guards around.

Guards should remain invincible. Yeah, it doesn't make sense for roleplaying, but it is needed for balance.

DaveMoeDee · August 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

Chaos_Deception wrote: »

Here's a Relevant Question.

How will Thieves be Notified when they are being Pursued by a Player Enforcer. And how will Player Enforcers be Identified by the Thief.

Also what is to Stop Enforcers from Waiting around Market Zones, to Wait for a Thief to Commit a Crime.

Seems like an Easy Bust for the Enforcers.

One would assume thieves would be flagged for combat and Enforcers would be visible with the red outline as enemies are. Similar to how guards are outlined when you are KOS.

Stealing isn't probably going to get you flagged for Enforcers. We're probably going to have a monetary limitation (required bounty amount) before Enforcers can go after you. Stealing a tomato isn't going to flag you for PVP, most likely. (Then again, with the market value of tomatoes....) I don't think Enforcers camping high crime spots will be a problem if there is a buildup required.
Well...other than players ganking said flagged criminal.

Would you let multiple thieves team up on an enforcer? Would you get rid of guards and townie combat since the enforcer shouldn't have NPCs helping.

And how would you handle levels? Keep in mind that an "enforcement" could happen in town, or it could happen out in the wild in the middle of combat.

I don't see this enforcer system happening in any of the current zones. The changes needed would be too drastic. Nice to think about, but there are some serious barriers.

arowz · August 2015

The one thing I'd like to see is the ability to Bribe a guard. If I have a bunch of stolen crap on me I don't want to lose when paying a bounty, I'd like the option to offer the guard a bribe for him to look the other way. My bounty would remain, and that guard would come at me again if I stood around for more than 30 seconds. Plus all other guards would still be on the lookout for me. Just let me pay like 2k to avoid losing my hard-earned stolen daedric motif.

BullNetch · August 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

I like the system as it is. Stupid and careless criminals get mercilessly curb-stomped. Frankly, it's too easy on criminals right now.

Bring in the Justice system so my character can ruthlessly hunt down and destroy criminal scum, and then I'll support some of the OP's ideas.

I'm not advocating softening the punishment end of things, with the sole exception of removing full murder penalties from failed pickpocketing. (Which still makes you wanted.) I don't know where you all get this from. I'm advocating making the mechanics better. If you get caught, you go down. Asking for the detection to be less gimmicky and actually giving players a chance to sneak in the dark isn't asking for leniency from the system.
I'm with everyone on player enforcers.

But I have an idea: let's give all criminal players electrified keyboards that give them lethal electrocution whenever they die in game. Maybe that's harsh enough. (/sarcasm)

You should get a harsher penalty for killing an NPC after a failed pocket picking.

This is an medieval fantasy RPG. We want more brutal archaic justice.

If you max out your bounty, a fanatical NPC should jump you in the middle of Tamriel. "Lady Almalexia sent me to kill you! I swear on house Indoril, your victims shall be avenged!"

There is an elf on the stocks in Rawl'kha. I was laughing and wishing there was a tomato chucking mini-game.

This game also needs more NPS peasants willing to chase you down with their pitchforks. Remember the Oblivion mob justice? Mess with one NPC and all the others would join the guards trying to kill you.

Spottswoode · August 2015

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Nothing should be done to make stealing easier.

I don't get the complaint of the OP that he can't safely hang out outside the refuge. Uh, go inside. Simple. Or stand by the back door that is outside of town. There is no reason why you should feel safe by the refuge door in town..

Actually I can do just that at the intown door to the refuge at Elden Root. And I have a very big reason why.... If the guards catch me because I am careless, that would be one thing. If the guards catch me because the game is acting unfairly or lagging, that's another.
Stealing is actually pretty easy as it is. The thing I want to fix is escaping. It makes no sense for master thieves to get spotted easily.

arowz wrote: »

The one thing I'd like to see is the ability to Bribe a guard. If I have a bunch of stolen crap on me I don't want to lose when paying a bounty, I'd like the option to offer the guard a bribe for him to look the other way. My bounty would remain, and that guard would come at me again if I stood around for more than 30 seconds. Plus all other guards would still be on the lookout for me. Just let me pay like 2k to avoid losing my hard-earned stolen daedric motif.

If the bribe was in excess of the value of the items stolen, I would be ok with that. Ledgermain perks to reduce the markup would be ok too. This would help you sell motifs and other very high items at the cost of forking over the fence item cash.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

Chaos_Deception wrote: »

Here's a Relevant Question.

How will Thieves be Notified when they are being Pursued by a Player Enforcer. And how will Player Enforcers be Identified by the Thief.

Also what is to Stop Enforcers from Waiting around Market Zones, to Wait for a Thief to Commit a Crime.

Seems like an Easy Bust for the Enforcers.

One would assume thieves would be flagged for combat and Enforcers would be visible with the red outline as enemies are. Similar to how guards are outlined when you are KOS.

Stealing isn't probably going to get you flagged for Enforcers. We're probably going to have a monetary limitation (required bounty amount) before Enforcers can go after you. Stealing a tomato isn't going to flag you for PVP, most likely. (Then again, with the market value of tomatoes....) I don't think Enforcers camping high crime spots will be a problem if there is a buildup required.
Well...other than players ganking said flagged criminal.

Would you let multiple thieves team up on an enforcer? Would you get rid of guards and townie combat since the enforcer shouldn't have NPCs helping.

And how would you handle levels? Keep in mind that an "enforcement" could happen in town, or it could happen out in the wild in the middle of combat.

I don't see this enforcer system happening in any of the current zones. The changes needed would be too drastic. Nice to think about, but there are some serious barriers.

@DaveMoeDee I have a strong suspicion that enforcers will greatly outnumber organized thieves. Add the regular guards into the mix and I don't think that will be much of an issue.
I would actually prefer that Enforcers have to act outside of town and let the town guards handle crime inside town, mainly to reduce lag from non-participating players.
As far as levels go, I would think a buff similar to the Cyrodiil buff would be active for Enforcers.

BullNetch wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

I like the system as it is. Stupid and careless criminals get mercilessly curb-stomped. Frankly, it's too easy on criminals right now.

Bring in the Justice system so my character can ruthlessly hunt down and destroy criminal scum, and then I'll support some of the OP's ideas.

I'm not advocating softening the punishment end of things, with the sole exception of removing full murder penalties from failed pickpocketing. (Which still makes you wanted.) I don't know where you all get this from. I'm advocating making the mechanics better. If you get caught, you go down. Asking for the detection to be less gimmicky and actually giving players a chance to sneak in the dark isn't asking for leniency from the system.
I'm with everyone on player enforcers.

But I have an idea: let's give all criminal players electrified keyboards that give them lethal electrocution whenever they die in game. Maybe that's harsh enough. (/sarcasm)

You should get a harsher penalty for killing an NPC after a failed pocket picking.

This is an medieval fantasy RPG. We want more brutal archaic justice.

If you max out your bounty, a fanatical NPC should jump you in the middle of Tamriel. "Lady Almalexia sent me to kill you! I swear on house Indoril, your victims shall be avenged!"

There is an elf on the stocks in Rawl'kha. I was laughing and wishing there was a tomato chucking mini-game.

So should drown female players committing adultery?

BullNetch · August 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Nothing should be done to make stealing easier.

I don't get the complaint of the OP that he can't safely hang out outside the refuge. Uh, go inside. Simple. Or stand by the back door that is outside of town. There is no reason why you should feel safe by the refuge door in town..

Actually I can do just that at the intown door to the refuge at Elden Root. And I have a very big reason why.... If the guards catch me because I am careless, that would be one thing. If the guards catch me because the game is acting unfairly or lagging, that's another.
Stealing is actually pretty easy as it is. The thing I want to fix is escaping. It makes no sense for master thieves to get spotted easily.

arowz wrote: »

The one thing I'd like to see is the ability to Bribe a guard. If I have a bunch of stolen crap on me I don't want to lose when paying a bounty, I'd like the option to offer the guard a bribe for him to look the other way. My bounty would remain, and that guard would come at me again if I stood around for more than 30 seconds. Plus all other guards would still be on the lookout for me. Just let me pay like 2k to avoid losing my hard-earned stolen daedric motif.

If the bribe was in excess of the value of the items stolen, I would be ok with that. Ledgermain perks to reduce the markup would be ok too. This would help you sell motifs and other very high items at the cost of forking over the fence item cash.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

Chaos_Deception wrote: »

Here's a Relevant Question.

How will Thieves be Notified when they are being Pursued by a Player Enforcer. And how will Player Enforcers be Identified by the Thief.

Also what is to Stop Enforcers from Waiting around Market Zones, to Wait for a Thief to Commit a Crime.

Seems like an Easy Bust for the Enforcers.

One would assume thieves would be flagged for combat and Enforcers would be visible with the red outline as enemies are. Similar to how guards are outlined when you are KOS.

Stealing isn't probably going to get you flagged for Enforcers. We're probably going to have a monetary limitation (required bounty amount) before Enforcers can go after you. Stealing a tomato isn't going to flag you for PVP, most likely. (Then again, with the market value of tomatoes....) I don't think Enforcers camping high crime spots will be a problem if there is a buildup required.
Well...other than players ganking said flagged criminal.

Would you let multiple thieves team up on an enforcer? Would you get rid of guards and townie combat since the enforcer shouldn't have NPCs helping.

And how would you handle levels? Keep in mind that an "enforcement" could happen in town, or it could happen out in the wild in the middle of combat.

I don't see this enforcer system happening in any of the current zones. The changes needed would be too drastic. Nice to think about, but there are some serious barriers.

@DaveMoeDee I have a strong suspicion that enforcers will greatly outnumber organized thieves. Add the regular guards into the mix and I don't think that will be much of an issue.
I would actually prefer that Enforcers have to act outside of town and let the town guards handle crime inside town, mainly to reduce lag from non-participating players.
As far as levels go, I would think a buff similar to the Cyrodiil buff would be active for Enforcers.

BullNetch wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

I like the system as it is. Stupid and careless criminals get mercilessly curb-stomped. Frankly, it's too easy on criminals right now.

Bring in the Justice system so my character can ruthlessly hunt down and destroy criminal scum, and then I'll support some of the OP's ideas.

I'm not advocating softening the punishment end of things, with the sole exception of removing full murder penalties from failed pickpocketing. (Which still makes you wanted.) I don't know where you all get this from. I'm advocating making the mechanics better. If you get caught, you go down. Asking for the detection to be less gimmicky and actually giving players a chance to sneak in the dark isn't asking for leniency from the system.
I'm with everyone on player enforcers.

But I have an idea: let's give all criminal players electrified keyboards that give them lethal electrocution whenever they die in game. Maybe that's harsh enough. (/sarcasm)

You should get a harsher penalty for killing an NPC after a failed pocket picking.

This is an medieval fantasy RPG. We want more brutal archaic justice.

If you max out your bounty, a fanatical NPC should jump you in the middle of Tamriel. "Lady Almalexia sent me to kill you! I swear on house Indoril, your victims shall be avenged!"

There is an elf on the stocks in Rawl'kha. I was laughing and wishing there was a tomato chucking mini-game.

So should drown female players committing adultery?

Drowning female players for committing adultery? Have you played older Elder Scrolls games or messed up quests in the Dark Brotherhood? lol... drowning.

You already have stuff similar to that in the game. There is a quest where a high elf wizard can't fulfill a contract and the wood elves are prepared to kill his wife, cook her, and feed her to him as their contract stipulated.

Bosmer put people in a village on trial for cutting a flower to cure a sick elf. At the end of the quest, someone gets fed to a tree.

It's "medieval" fantasy. Guard brutality and excessive force don't exist. This is a fantasy world where fundamentalist wood elves kill other elves for eating vegetables.

From a lore point of view, lax guards don't fit.

jircris11 · August 2015

Artheiron wrote: »

-guards shouldn't be immortal killing machines
-we need a prison, and a prison break fun
-bounty link between cities or maybe factions needs to be broken.
-bounty hunter system needs to be added, yes pvp portion of the justice system
-in future when they decide to add stuff like housing, some of these useless stolen items needs to be converted to decorations or something more useful. looks a little cheap when you steal something and the item you stole is all about name and a RP story tooltip.

ok this part is all about pvp and cyrodiil and totally unrealistic please don't read it if you don't like long texts.
- after reaching crazy amount of bounty, bounty stops. your faction banishes you and you join the 4th faction with bunch of criminals like you. island with bunch of outlaws. an area open for pvp and there can be a pve dungeon etc. you gain a skill tree different than mages and fighters guild but you lose both guilds skill trees.
- this island can be invaded and with pvp you can gain and lose stuff something similar to tel var stones. let's call them hell var stones. : P
- as the 4th faction they have different plans, they don't care crowning an emperor but to assassinate him. destory the system all together. (anarchy in the eso) in cyrodiil they have a base in area where the anvil was. places like kvatch skingard and all other villages can be attacked by these bandits, npcs murdered and houses burned while you are gaining alliance points and the stones by killing players.
- after villages successfully attacked, these places can be used as new bases. and they can block the links between the keeps once every city in cyrodiil captured, emperor loses some of his emp buffs, resources can't provide materials to improve keeps. until he/she gets these cities back.
- with underground tunnels they can port between their captured villages.
- of course they need to fight against molag bal forces like all men do. after capturing cloud ruler temple they can make a ritual and curse all 3 factions and the guy who's on top their leaderboard becomes the crimelord gains similar emp buffs.

giving up crime - willingly

-you need to purchase a letter from a npc or the crown store, consume it and go to your capital city. 2 guards take you the judge and you lose all the gold, tv/hv stones, ap, and ap ranks you have. and you serve your time in a cell for a really long time without a chance to break free. after released, you'll need to visit aedric shirnes, donate gold daily for a certain amount of time. duration of this depends on the currencies you had when you turned yourself in. if you don't pay it, you recieve a "burden of guilt" debuff that hinders your abilities and combat effectiveness. and debuff increases for each day you don't pay. also this can be reduced by being a successful soldier in pvp/pve lands, so stay on shining parts of the leaderboards.

unwillingly

-each time you get defeated in pvp areas your "heat" increases. once it's fully done you'll be ported to your old faction's capital city, you'll loose all of your currencies and your items will be confiscated. you won't be send to prison instead they'll send you to mines, you'll be mining there for a while. after compeleting the task they gave to you, you'll donate gold. same as above. oh btw, there are 2 ways to get your confiscated items back, 1. when the time you'll be forced to donate ends, 2 of course, just like in any tes game, you'll need to steal them back. and it won't be easy.
-

-

im honestly tired of hearing people who want the bounty hunter system for crime. that will just give those who have one shot kills a way to ruin the game for pvers. now perhaps instead of killing the person you get a set of "bounty" skills that simply allow you to arrest them? That and make sure there is a level limit don't need v14-18s chasing lvl 10s.

Spottswoode · August 2015

BullNetch wrote: »

Drowning female players for committing adultery? Have you played older Elder Scrolls games or messed up quests in the Dark Brotherhood? lol... drowning.

You already have stuff similar to that in the game. There is a quest where a high elf wizard can't fulfill a contract and the wood elves are prepared to kill his wife, cook her, and feed her to him as their contract stipulated
Bosmer put people in a village on trial for cutting a flower to cure a sick elf. At the end of the quest, someone gets fed to a tree.

It's "medieval" fantasy. Guard brutality and excessive force don't exist. This is a fantasy world where fundamentalist wood elves kill other elves for eating vegetables.

The Green Pact is a very strong exception. It's not a legal contract, it's a compact with an Eldritch Force. They enforce it to the letter for d@mn good reasons. Most of the other cultures in Tamriel have varying level of justice practices.
Let's not forget that the Bosmer and Khajiit cultures have very strong affinity for theft. Theft, in Bosmer culture, bestows rights.

wrote:

From a lore point of view, lax guards don't fit.

Bro, did you even Thieves Guild in Skyrim? I would very often ask guards to look the other way for petty fines and just tell them I was with the guild or the Jarl's Thane.

Btw, the drowning comment was to illustrate the practical difficulties and need for reasonable limitation to the actual practical application of the justice system.

BullNetch · August 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

BullNetch wrote: »

Drowning female players for committing adultery? Have you played older Elder Scrolls games or messed up quests in the Dark Brotherhood? lol... drowning.

You already have stuff similar to that in the game. There is a quest where a high elf wizard can't fulfill a contract and the wood elves are prepared to kill his wife, cook her, and feed her to him as their contract stipulated
Bosmer put people in a village on trial for cutting a flower to cure a sick elf. At the end of the quest, someone gets fed to a tree.

It's "medieval" fantasy. Guard brutality and excessive force don't exist. This is a fantasy world where fundamentalist wood elves kill other elves for eating vegetables.

The Green Pact is a very strong exception. It's not a legal contract, it's a compact with an Eldritch Force. They enforce it to the letter for d@mn good reasons. Most of the other cultures in Tamriel have varying level of justice practices.
Let's not forget that the Bosmer and Khajiit cultures have very strong affinity for theft. Theft, in Bosmer culture, bestows rights.

wrote:

From a lore point of view, lax guards don't fit.

Bro, did you even Thieves Guild in Skyrim? I would very often ask guards to look the other way for petty fines and just tell them I was with the guild or the Jarl's Thane.

Btw, the drowning comment was to illustrate the practical difficulties and need for reasonable limitation to the actual practical application of the justice system.

The outlaw's refuge already gives some of the perks of the Thieves Guild.

Every refuge has an entrance free of guards, on the edge of the town. You can pay of your bounty without a guard taking your stolen loot.

You could only get away with petty crimes by claiming to be Thane once per hold in Skyrim. In ESO, a thane wouldn't impose on an Ebonheart Pact Guard/Soldier. They only answer to Jorunn and the Pact officers, not some local thane.

Bribing guards, that should be a legerdemain skill, have a 50% chance to find a corrupt guard that will accept a bribe to let you go for a reduced price and keep your stolen goods.

The guards should not be lax. The three factions are engaged in a continental war. Undead, cultists, disease, monsters, daedra can kill any poor peasant at any time. The setting is supposed to be dark. Guards should be tough.

The Elder Scrolls games take place in a brutal Medieval-ish dark fantasy setting.

Would a peasant somewhere in Tamriel drown his wife for adultery? Absolutely and he'd probably stick her soul in a black soul gem and sell it to Molag Bal for a beer and the sic the Dark Brotherhood on her lover for the souls of the people in his village.

UltimaJoe777 · August 2015

I honestly don't remember the last time I got busted by a guard. I have become good at sneaking by them even on characters not built for stealth. I also don't steal from places with guard presence and there are some good ones at that.