PvE - RIP Stamina classes in PvE Trials/Arena

Alcast · August 2015

We did a run on PTS (Ping 190/ FPS huge drops bc of god knows what)

Single Target:
Stamina DK/Temp average dps on Manti 13-16k
Magicka Sorc average dps on Manti 25k+
Magicka DK average dps on Manti 18k+
Stamina AoE does 3x less dmg than on live.

On live(without this freaking ping+no fps drops) Stamina might be able to get 17-20k dps.
But Sorcs are going to hit 35k+ dps.

I feel that there is another rebalancing needed after the sharpened bug got fixed, many people already reported those issues in 1.6 PTS. It is good that the bug is fixed, but now redo rebalancing Stamina vs Magicka

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober

Xantaria · August 2015

Sharpened Fix hits Stamina Builds so hard that they are hardly competitive at all compared to Magicka. I don't really see a way to fix that unless you would nerf all monster armour values in PvE.

SeptimusDova · August 2015

ping/fps server refresh

what is the server refresh rate ?

this bites I like watching your jabsmanian devil videos.
Dagnibbit this aint funny anymore.

Alcast · August 2015

SeptimusDova wrote: »

ping/fps server refresh

what is the server refresh rate ?

this bites I like watching your jabsmanian devil videos.
Dagnibbit this aint funny anymore.

Stamina Templar got even hit harder than Stamina DK

The biggest issue is tho, if a Sorc pulls double the dps than a stam dude, RIP stamina and reroll sorc

SeptimusDova · August 2015

I am sorry to see this. You have put so much work into your templar and with a single patch poof gone. I think Ill just run around cyrodiil naked on my cat for free kills.

trimsic_ESO · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

We did a run on PTS (Ping 190/ FPS huge drops bc of god knows what)

Single Target:
Stamina DK/Temp average dps on Manti 13-16k
Magicka Sorc average dps on Manti 25k+
Magicka DK average dps on Manti 18k+
Stamina AoE does 3x less dmg than on live.

On live(without this freaking ping+no fps drops) Stamina might be able to get 17-20k dps.
But Sorcs are going to hit 35k+ dps.

so its either reroll Sorc or quit the game

Its good that you fixed Sharpened bug, but now balance is broken once again gg.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober

Did you remember when I posted a message 2 weeks ago and the PTS just opened? I said RIP stamina.

And I think in PVP it will be even worse, but the NB.

dday3six · August 2015

Well let's hope ZOS does something before IC goes live...

DDuke · August 2015

I knew it'd be less than on Live, but I didn't expect that drastic differences.

Sharpened Mace on live should "only" be providing a 10-15% difference.

I'd be curious about what gear you were wearing, since many of the current sets are now pretty bad on PTS.

5x Hunding's, 5x Ravager & 2x Nerien'eth/Kena will probably end up being the way to go

Scyantific · August 2015

I call BS. I main a Sorc and even I know that magicka Sorcs have the worst sustained DPS out of all the classes.

Please check your facts.

Nikkiy · August 2015

Scyantific wrote: »

I call BS. I main a Sorc and even I know that magicka Sorcs have the worst sustained DPS out of all the classes.

Please check your facts.

lol

Alcast · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

I knew it'd be less than on Live, but I didn't expect that drastic differences.

Sharpened Mace on live should "only" be providing a 10-15% difference.

I'd be curious about what gear you were wearing, since many of the current sets are now pretty bad on PTS.

5x Hunding's, 5x Ravager & 2x Nerien'eth/Kena will probably end up being the way to go

Same as on live, 5x Hundings, 5x Ravager, 2x Master Dagger (Sharpened)

Scyantific wrote: »

I call BS. I main a Sorc and even I know that magicka Sorcs have the worst sustained DPS out of all the classes.

Please check your facts.

dude, just lol, I dont even know where to begin to tell you how wrong you are..

Thalmor-Nordmaster · August 2015

I wonder what is going to happen when this goes live

Smolt · August 2015

Any idea what mag nb's are pulling? Seems like they might be a good option too. Sharpened was an issue in pvp, but it hardly made stam nb op in pve, still lower than mag even with sharpened and camo hunter.

Smolt · August 2015

Also, the mag builds will do huge damage in pvp without nirn.

Rayste · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I knew it'd be less than on Live, but I didn't expect that drastic differences.

Sharpened Mace on live should "only" be providing a 10-15% difference.

I'd be curious about what gear you were wearing, since many of the current sets are now pretty bad on PTS.

5x Hunding's, 5x Ravager & 2x Nerien'eth/Kena will probably end up being the way to go

Same as on live, 5x Hundings, 5x Ravager, 2x Master Dagger (Sharpened)

Scyantific wrote: »

I call BS. I main a Sorc and even I know that magicka Sorcs have the worst sustained DPS out of all the classes.

Please check your facts.

dude, just lol, just soooooo LOL. You could not be more wrong, like omg, even on live now, Sorcs single target DPs is insane

I am guessing this is an overload issue.... thoughts?

wrathofrraath · August 2015

Did you try out sunderflame ? 1.7 will be the rise of the vCoA sets im callin it out

Alcast · August 2015

Rayste wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I knew it'd be less than on Live, but I didn't expect that drastic differences.

Sharpened Mace on live should "only" be providing a 10-15% difference.

I'd be curious about what gear you were wearing, since many of the current sets are now pretty bad on PTS.

5x Hunding's, 5x Ravager & 2x Nerien'eth/Kena will probably end up being the way to go

Same as on live, 5x Hundings, 5x Ravager, 2x Master Dagger (Sharpened)

Scyantific wrote: »

I call BS. I main a Sorc and even I know that magicka Sorcs have the worst sustained DPS out of all the classes.

Please check your facts.

dude, just lol, just soooooo LOL. You could not be more wrong, like omg, even on live now, Sorcs single target DPs is insane

I am guessing this is an overload issue.... thoughts?

A part of it yes.

The issue is, Stamina Classes were only able to compete in PvE due to the sharpened bug.
Stamina still had less Single Target DPS but more AoE
Magicka had more Single Target DPS but less AoE

Now, magicka has A LOT more Single Target DPS + same AoE . It is not only Sorcs, basically all Magicka classes will be far more superior to their stamina counter parts.

For PvP it will be the same issue with this Nirn thingy going + the 100% armor rise of Light armor

Ahzek · August 2015

@Alcast Why master daggers ? You basically loose 200 weapondamage from V14 to V16 with only 92 for the dagger enchantment to make up for that, while preventing the use of another enchant themselfes ( 200 wep dmg on hit anyone ? ) and prevent yourself from using an undaunted 2 piece. Is the damage bonus to Twin Slashes really that high ?

Dracane · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

We did a run on PTS (Ping 190/ FPS huge drops bc of god knows what)

Single Target:
Stamina DK/Temp average dps on Manti 13-16k
Magicka Sorc average dps on Manti 25k+
Magicka DK average dps on Manti 18k+
Stamina AoE does 3x less dmg than on live.

On live(without this freaking ping+no fps drops) Stamina might be able to get 17-20k dps.
But Sorcs are going to hit 35k+ dps.

so its either reroll Sorc or quit the game

Its good that you fixed Sharpened bug, but now balance is broken once again gg.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober

Assumption or fact ?
And 18k is fairly low for a Magicka dk, replace that DK with a better one.
I feel like you just mixed some numbers wrong.
Should look like this:

Magicka DK: 25k+
Stamina Templar: 18k+
Magicka Sorc 13-16k

That's how it is in dungeons usually.

MrGrimey · August 2015

What's the rotation you're using for the Magicka sorc? My numbers are nowhere near that

Alcast · August 2015

Ahzek wrote: »

@Alcast Why master daggers ? You basically loose 200 weapondamage from V14 to V16 with only 92 for the dagger enchantment to make up for that, while preventing the use of another enchant themselfes ( 200 wep dmg on hit anyone ? ) and prevent yourself from using an undaunted 2 piece. Is the damage bonus to Twin Slashes really that high ?

had nothing else, same setup as on live

Dracane wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

We did a run on PTS (Ping 190/ FPS huge drops bc of god knows what)

Single Target:
Stamina DK/Temp average dps on Manti 13-16k
Magicka Sorc average dps on Manti 25k+
Magicka DK average dps on Manti 18k+
Stamina AoE does 3x less dmg than on live.

On live(without this freaking ping+no fps drops) Stamina might be able to get 17-20k dps.
But Sorcs are going to hit 35k+ dps.

so its either reroll Sorc or quit the game

Its good that you fixed Sharpened bug, but now balance is broken once again gg.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober

Assumption or fact ?
And 18k is fairly low for a Magicka dk, replace that DK with a better one.
I feel like you just mixed some numbers wrong.
Should look like this:

Magicka DK: 25k+
Stamina Templar: 18k+
Magicka Sorc 13-16k

That's how it is in dungeons usually.

As I said, Lag issues might mix the numbers a bit. But sorc was so far off the top with Overload build its unreal, even compared to other Magicka classes.

Glantir · August 2015

Rayste wrote: »

I am guessing this is an overload issue.... thoughts?

Overload + Molag Kena

I'm a Magicka Sorc and by reading this dps numbers I cant get the smile out of my face

.
But I dont like it that the Sorc dps is depending on the Overload Ultimate, one fail on a Boss and your dps on the next try is ..... like throw a cotton ball.

Maybe this fact gives ZoS the motivation to revise the Sorc class and give the possibility to have good dps without Overload
But we all know ZoS they will nerf it to the ground

.....

Personofsecrets · August 2015

Sorry to hear about this. Stamina users will just have to adapt.

SeptimusDova · August 2015

Khajiit Whiskers will give you a boost to dps >^_^<

on a serious note this goes live in 11 days

AhPook_Is_Here · August 2015

Ahzek wrote: »

@Alcast Why master daggers ? You basically loose 200 weapondamage from V14 to V16 with only 92 for the dagger enchantment to make up for that, while preventing the use of another enchant themselfes ( 200 wep dmg on hit anyone ? ) and prevent yourself from using an undaunted 2 piece. Is the damage bonus to Twin Slashes really that high ?

Last I checked the dagger enchants were still bugged anyway and didn't add WP.

Rune_Relic · August 2015

...stares blankly at screen....

Domander · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I knew it'd be less than on Live, but I didn't expect that drastic differences.

Sharpened Mace on live should "only" be providing a 10-15% difference.

I'd be curious about what gear you were wearing, since many of the current sets are now pretty bad on PTS.

5x Hunding's, 5x Ravager & 2x Nerien'eth/Kena will probably end up being the way to go

Same as on live, 5x Hundings, 5x Ravager, 2x Master Dagger (Sharpened)

Scyantific wrote: »

I call BS. I main a Sorc and even I know that magicka Sorcs have the worst sustained DPS out of all the classes.

Please check your facts.

dude, just lol, just soooooo LOL. You could not be more wrong, like omg, even on live now, Sorcs single target DPs is insane

I am guessing this is an overload issue.... thoughts?

A part of it yes.

The issue is, Stamina Classes were only able to compete in PvE due to the sharpened bug.
Stamina still had less Single Target DPS but more AoE
Magicka had more Single Target DPS but less AoE

Now, magicka has A LOT more Single Target DPS + same AoE . It is not only Sorcs, basically all Magicka classes will be far more superior to their stamina counter parts.

For PvP it will be the same issue with this Nirn thingy going + the 100% armor rise of Light armor

Maces still add armor pen

The apprentice stone (spell pen) was nerfed, and weapon damage is still much easier to stack higher.

Nirnhoned still increases spell resist, but not to such broken amounts.

So...

ADarklore · August 2015

Domander wrote: »

The apprentice stone (spell pen) was nerfed, and weapon damage is still much easier to stack higher.

Apprentice Stone wasn't 'nerfed' it was changed to Spell Damage... albeit it still turned out to be a nerf because they apparently didn't take the time to even make the Spell Damage equal to Spell Penetration, even though this change is supposed to be an "improvement" to the Apprentice.

Wing · August 2015

and all that is in addition to stamina defenses being crippled this patch as well (blocking and doge rolling respectively.)

Kerioko · August 2015

Smolt wrote: »

Any idea what mag nb's are pulling? Seems like they might be a good option too. Sharpened was an issue in pvp, but it hardly made stam nb op in pve, still lower than mag even with sharpened and camo hunter.

Stam NB on live with 5 hunding, 5 ravanger, master daggers and master bow, I pull 15-18K on average without abusing the mace/sharpened exploit (because I use precise master daggers)!

Magicka NB with 4 martial knowledge, 2 cyrodiil light, 2, torug, 2 adoitness, master destro + master daggers (execute bar), I pull 12-15K on live!

I tested the same set-up on pts and my stam damage went down to about 14-16K due to the changes that now affect ravager procs! There look to be some new sets that may replace the ravager/hunding set-up to get a little higher dps for someone like me without the perfect rotation, or completely min/maxed.

Magicka NB is still about the same on PTS with the same gear set-up. The new change to grim focus doesn't really help dps because you have to reapply the buff every time you fire the arrow, so while I can get it to crit for about 30K it is really clunky!

I think magicka NB gets the most benefit from molag kena set because our funnel health spam is so cheep that we can afford to max spell damage and still spam funnel with decent sustain!

Running molag kena with 5 piece overwhelming surge, I was able to average about 15-17K on my magicka NB!

Miwerton · August 2015

Well one of the reasons to lowered damage with stam users against bosses is that mighty (currently, fix it dammit) only boosts damage against mobs, (anyone that isnt a boss, world bosses might be exluded, dont know) but doesnt boost damage against bosses.

Where about the only one to boost damage against a boss as a stam dps, is piercing (well that and the fact that a good portion of class stam abilities still doesnt scale of armor pen, but spell pen) On the other hand magicka users can get damage boost from elemental and thaumaturge which works on bosses aswell including spell pen.

Then again, i dont run the 5 ravager set, (never liked wearing heavy armor that didnt mix with my other leather armor, aestetics is important to) So ive not really experienced that blow.

Then again maybe the Molag Kena doesnt increase the cost of overload, (maybe the ulti cost, but not how quickly it burns up using it).