[Bug?] Precise Strikes only increases the extra dmg you gain on critting

Xantaria · August 2015

So yeah ... let's say your base dmg is 100. If you crit it is 150 (base Values). If you have 6 % increased critical dmg through Precise Strikes it is currently 153.

If you use the shadow which grants 12% critical dmg and no precise strikes you will deal 162 dmg on a critical strike. Which is working correctly.

So can anybody explain why the 12% from shadow are actually 12% and the 6% from Precise Strikes are actually only 3%?

To me it looks like Precise Strikes only increases the extra dmg you gain on critting. Instead of using the 100 base damage to calculate, it uses the 50 extra dmg you gain on a crit.

Adding this because somebody asked:

If you use Shadow and 6% Precise Strikes you gain 12% + 3% dmg which means that your hit will deal 165 dmg.

Also the Shadow is definitely not bugged. They also buffed the Thief up to 12% crit which is equivalent to how strong the Shadow is when it works as it is working currently (12% of base dmg added on crit). So I am 100% sure Shadow is working as intended. but Precise Strikes are fishy.

I think everything might be working as intended but then as somebody mentioned in the comments the tooltip should be changed to 'Increases the bonus critical damage of physical attacks by x%'

aco5712 · August 2015

Because this is how it was intended to work as far as I know. Impenetrable works on the same principle. Maybe the mundus isn't working properly

Ludof · August 2015

Mundus is additive to base dmg.
CPs are multiplicative to extra dmg gained on a crit.

I have the feeling they messed up something

@Xantaria Can you try using both Shadow+Precise Strikes?

hrothbern · August 2015

Perhaps it makes sense that ZOS writes down a extended tooltip AND a general logic manual on game mechanics.

Would be great for the casual players, who have no time to find out themselves with addons

AND it would me more than convenient for the coding people to have some guidance about the content

Makes me BTW wonder.... What is the employment retention rate of the coding people ?

This kind of mistakes, learning every time everything all over again, is often the effect of newly hired coding people all the time...

Jeckll · August 2015

You might be interested in my testings on the current PTS regarding Precise Strikes. @Ludof seems to be at least

When I tested Shadow + Precise Strikes, I was wearing 2x Divines = 15% Mundus effect, was realising it too late and didnt have time yet to redo without divines. The upper part without mundus stays the same, though

Ludof · August 2015

Jeckll wrote: »

You might be interested in my testings on the current PTS regarding Precise Strikes. @Ludof seems to be at least

When I tested Shadow + Precise Strikes, I was wearing 2x Divines = 15% Mundus effect, was realising it too late and didnt have time yet to redo without divines. The upper part without mundus stays the same, though

Really good job for the upper part !! @Jeckll
Let's compare the results for the lower part (Mundus+100 Precise Strikes):

Base dmg:1379
Mundus dmg increase (2 pieces Divines):173.125
CP dmg increase (100 Precise Strikes):172.375
Crit dmg:2414

We are going to realise this:
-Mundus is additive to base dmg.
-CPs are multiplicative to extra dmg gained on a crit.
-Mundus effect (with 2 Divines pieces) is better than 100 CP one.

At this point I think something is REALLY wrong:is it the Shadow or Precise Strikes ?

Jeckll · August 2015

@Ludolf I think Shadow is additive, isnt it? Like it give 12% and those are added to the 50% like 50%+12% = 62% while all other Crit Damage increasing effects seem multiplicative to the base crit damage value.

While Shadow gives 12% flat, 100 Precise Strikes should give 25% of 50% = 12,5%...in my test, 100 Precise Strikes are 12% also but in all my testings, I encounter several rounding issues in ZOS side tbh.

R0M2K · August 2015

@ZOS_GinaBruno is this intended?

If so, please rework the CP text description so it doesnt misslead. Otherwise fix it.

Thanks.

Jeckll · August 2015

R0M2K wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno is this intended?

If so, please rework the CP text description so it doesnt misslead. Otherwise fix it.

Thanks.

"Increases the bonus critical damage of physical attacks by x%" would actually be the correct wording.
They did it right when writing the Hemorrhage passive.

Ludof · August 2015

Jeckll wrote: »

@Ludolf I think Shadow is additive, isnt it? Like it give 12% and those are added to the 50% like 50%+12% = 62% while all other Crit Damage increasing effects seem multiplicative to the base crit damage value.

While Shadow gives 12% flat, 100 Precise Strikes should give 25% of 50% = 12,5%...in my test, 100 Precise Strikes are 12% also but in all my testings, I encounter several rounding issues in ZOS side tbh.

@Jeckll Exactly.

Honestly I expected something better from max CP than Mundus; besides we didn't consider 7 Legendary pieces Divines to Max Mundus Effect (+52.5%).

Jeckll · August 2015

Ludof wrote: »

Honestly I expected something better from max CP than Mundus; besides we didn't consider 7 Legendary pieces Divines to Max Mundus Effect (+52.5%).

Well Precise Strikes is kind of in line with Piercing for example, if you check this recent testing, the damage increase is still okay...

Jeckll · August 2015

But let's stay at Precise Strikes for a moment, because there is actually a bug in the calculation. Check this @ZOS_GinaBruno and anyone interested:

Player: Nightblade VR16, Hemorrhage passive active, Shadow Mundus, no Divines trait, Skill: Surprise Attack
Taget: VR10 Mammoth

32 Precise Strikes: 6470
48 Precise Strikes: 6507
53 Precise Strikes: 6581
63 Precise Strikes: 6618
73 Precise Strikes: 6656

78 Precise Strikes: 6693
85 Precise Strikes: 6693

89 Precise Strikes: 6730
94 Precise Strikes: 6730
100 Precise Strikes: 6730

100 Precise Strikes with Warhorn: 7921 (first 10 sec)
100 Precise Strikes with Warhorn: 7063 (after 10 sec)

Isn't that KIND OF STRANGE?

Ludof · August 2015

It can be a bug or something we're not considering

Jeckll · August 2015

Ludof wrote: »

It can be a bug or something we're not considering

At first I was thinking there might be a hidden cap to crit damage increase but since it increase with Warhorn, I dont know what might be the issue.

Ludof · August 2015

@Jeckll can you test it with Trap Beast (Minor Force) ?

Jeckll · August 2015

Yeah, it's on my agenda. My todo list is pretty long as tons of stuff get changed for Stamina users...I will leave the spreadsheet here as soon as I have results.

Wisler89 · August 2015

Unfortunately no contribution for Precise Strikes but Elfborn works the same way.
And a question:
Shadow is works off 100% base damage, Precise Strikes and Elfborn work off 50% bonus crit damage
What about Warhorn and the Nightblade passive Hemorrhage(?), someone know how they work? Because I honestly can't figure it out, especially if I have 2 or 3 of these bonuses working together.

Xantaria · August 2015

would love to hear a statement from ZOS on this matter.

Jeckll · August 2015

Wisler89 wrote: »

Unfortunately no contribution for Precise Strikes but Elfborn works the same way.
And a question:
Shadow is works off 100% base damage, Precise Strikes and Elfborn work off 50% bonus crit damage
What about Warhorn and the Nightblade passive Hemorrhage(?), someone know how they work? Because I honestly can't figure it out, especially if I have 2 or 3 of these bonuses working together.

Hemorrhage works off bonus damage as stated in the tooltip. It's 10% of 50% = 5% increase.

Jeckll · August 2015

Ludof wrote: »

@Jeckll can you test it with Trap Beast (Minor Force) ?

Beast Trap: 2x 7s buff (Rearming Trap)

Light Attack:
Normal / Crit / Beast trap Crit: 1322 / 2222 / 2314

Surprise Attack:
Normal / Crit / Beast trap Crit: 3704 / 6222 / 6481

Normal Crit Modifier: 168%
With Beast Trap: 175%

So it's 7% increased crit damage.

Ludof · August 2015

Jeckll wrote: »

Ludof wrote: »

@Jeckll can you test it with Trap Beast (Minor Force) ?

Beast Trap: 2x 7s buff (Rearming Trap)

Light Attack:
Normal / Crit / Beast trap Crit: 1322 / 2222 / 2314

Surprise Attack:
Normal / Crit / Beast trap Crit: 3704 / 6222 / 6481

Normal Crit Modifier: 168%
With Beast Trap: 175%

So it's 7% increased crit damage.

LOL.

Tooltip says 12% and in fact it is 7%.

Did you test it with 100 Precise strikes+Shadow Mundus+Hemorrhage?

Jeckll · August 2015

Ludof wrote: »

LOL.

Tooltip says 12% and in fact it is 7%.

Did you test it with 100 Precise strikes+Shadow Mundus+Hemorrhage?

no, it was with shadow mundus, some divines and hemorrhage. no Precise Strikes Points.

Xantaria · August 2015

The fact that it is 7% makes it look to me as if it would be applied after all other crit multipliers are applied but again it is only taking the extra dmg you gain on a crit.

168 - 100 = 68
68 * 1,12 = 76.16
100 + 76,16 = 176,16

You got 175 tho ... it's just weird. will try for myself again. definitely test it again naked and without shadow.

Jeckll · August 2015

Xantaria wrote: »

The fact that it is 7% makes it look to me as if it would be applied after all other crit multipliers are applied but again it is only taking the extra dmg you gain on a crit.

168 - 100 = 68
68 * 1,12 = 76.16
100 + 76,16 = 176,16

You got 175 tho ... it's just weird. will try for myself again. definitely test it again naked and without shadow.

I was thinking at first it's a rounding issue because I was expecting 6% (12% of 50%). But Surprise Attack and Light Attack had the same results. I will retest it without Shadow and gear, though I dont think it will make a difference as I couldnt come up with a combination that explains 7%.

Jeckll · August 2015

second testing beast trap:

no gear, steed mundus, no hemorrhage:

Normal/Crit/Bear Trap Crit: 1212 / 1817 (150%) / 1817 (156%)
6% more crit damage

no gear, steed mundus, hemorrhage:

Normal/Crit/Bear Trap Crit: 1212 / 1878 (155%) / 1951 (161%)
6% more crit damage