Imperial City- Guys Chill

Acrolas · August 2015

Even with brand-new all-legendary gear and a load of CP, you're going to need to group in IC or you're gonna get your *** handed to you most of the time.

Don't go into IC thinking about the gear or economy. Go in knowing that you're going to have to be an even better team player than you ever were in Cyrodiil. Succeed at that, and you'll get to keep all your new toys.

sadownik · August 2015

OGLezard wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Grunim wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

For anyone who is worried about Imperial City reading this thread... Go and play it on the PTS, sooth your fears!

Odd, I was excited for IC before it appeared on PTS. I went there when it first appeared on PTS and it made me very sad because they made this for hardcore people and I'm not sure this content is for me. My mid VR level DK left with ZERO TV stones after a couple of hours of play.

The mobs hit waaaay too hard and I really don't like how difficult it is to leave IC.

Same here. Add to that making ap practicly worthless along with many sets, and with todays announcement about IC (free for all) it will make the objective mass pvp useless ... well i dont think i will be paying for that. Lets wait and see how it will pan out.

@sadownik what announcement? Tag me in your reply, I am not gonna remember this thread let alone refresh it waiting :P

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202328/there-cannot-be-access-gates-to-the-imperial-city-paid-dlc/p15

So for now IC is free for all and they will think about changing it "in the future". Sadly it makes Cyrodil useless, when you add to that shared population i think cyro will be empty for some time.

JD2013 · August 2015

So, people complain if it's gated.

People complain if it's not.

What exactly do people want???

sadownik · August 2015

JD2013 wrote: »

So, people complain if it's gated.

People complain if it's not.

What exactly do people want???

Mate "people" quite naturally complain about everything if you gather enough of them. Its devs job to have a vison of the game that they want to make. I really find blaming mythical people for everything that is wrong in the game incorrect.

JD2013 · August 2015

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

So, people complain if it's gated.

People complain if it's not.

What exactly do people want???

Mate "people" quite naturally complain about everything if you gather enough of them. Its devs job to have a vison of the game that they want to make. I really find blaming mythical people for everything that is wrong in the game incorrect.

Oh no, I agree, man. Whatever ZOS do, people will complain.

I'm actually quite happy the content is going to be a big free for all. It has worked quite well for me on PTS. Much better than I thought it would.

Xendyn · August 2015

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

So, people complain if it's gated.

People complain if it's not.

What exactly do people want???

Mate "people" quite naturally complain about everything if you gather enough of them. Its devs job to have a vison of the game that they want to make. I really find blaming mythical people for everything that is wrong in the game incorrect.

Oh no, I agree, man. Whatever ZOS do, people will complain.

I'm actually quite happy the content is going to be a big free for all. It has worked quite well for me on PTS. Much better than I thought it would.

Some people enjoy the flailing about and gnashing of teeth more than others, I guess.
We should all play IC with these

WitchyWarrior · August 2015

Was playing PTS yesterday and had to send my kid out of the room because I was swearing to much. It gets really frustrating when, like stated above, you jump down and fight NPCs and right before they die, about 4 or 5 DC or AD jump me and I die...Over and over again.

However, I think once it goes live and there is more players/campaigns available, it won't be as aggravating(hopefully!).

I am VERY excited for IC to go live! I took a few months off playing ESO because, well life got in the way but it also became very boring for me.
I will gladly start paying monthly again once it is live.

My only issue(which is totally my fault, since I was gone for a few months), I am no longer in any guilds so it will be hard for me to find a group and you can only go so far in IC solo. I have completed everything except the Arena District because of that fact. But again, that's my issue because I am an idiot who lets my social anxiety take over. Oh god...I'm rambling....Sorry

I'm SO glad that I was lazy a few months ago and didn't use all the treasure maps I have saved up! So that's a plus!

Anyway, I guess I just wanted to say that as a mainly solo PVE chick, I am VERY excited for IC to finally go live.

I'll have to suck it up, and group up for parts of it, which in my old Guild was pure joy with tons of xp & ap flowing so hopefully I can either get back in or find another awesome guild to join.

Ok, I'm just gonna post this now. So sorry for the ramble! I just wanted to get it out there that so far, IC on PTS is very frustratingly fun!

THEDKEXPERIENCE · August 2015

Carde wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Yes IC is so much fun with:

- pvp exploits
- gank stalkers who wait untill you attack PVE monsters so they can snipe you and backstab you while PVE monsters ignore them complety
- people who steal all your stones just because 90% of the damage was done by PVE monster but they poked you just for 10% and it still counts as "death by player"
- cowards who will lure all monsters on you, dissapear and come back when every monster grabbed aggro on you
- zerging
- your own faction players who will rather have someone kill you, instead of helping you, so when they kill your killer, they get both yours and his stones

So much fun, such healthy community, all the joy in the world around new Gank City DLC, the paradise of harassment.

Not to mention IC is basically just another PVE area, with absolutely no PVP specific mechanics and only "enabled PVP". No district control, no CTF, no KOH or other PVP teamplay activities. Just brainless "DPS sees, DPS kills".

All that because someone at ZOS had a dream, a dream where everyone do PVP, so in order to make it happen they created a zone with PVP enable, but in order to bring everyone there, they filled it with PVE content only Because apparently PVPers love the "challenge" of killing someone who is talking to NPC, doing PVE quest, or minding their own business killing mobs.

I'd genuinely like to know what your ideal style of PvP is if you truly believe these things to be "harassment".

I see griefing, harassing, etc all used in conjunction with "ganking" from players that despise PvP. I don't understand it.

I just really want to know what your acceptable PvP setting is. Is it head on 1v1 duels? Is that the only thing that works for people like this?

I wonder about this every day.

Fight with an army? You suck because you Zerg.
Sneak up on someone? You suck because you're a ganker.
Fight someone 4 on 1? You suck because you're picking on people.
Fight someone 1 on 4? You suck because only someone with 11,462,429 Champion Points could do that.

I'm thinking that some people believe the only valid way to PVP is lining up 30 paces from each other and shooting at exactly the count of 3, while using the same gear ... and getting a trophy for it.

IOUAT · August 2015

Actually no. There was no need to add more vet ranks

Dahkoht · August 2015

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Carde wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Yes IC is so much fun with:

- pvp exploits
- gank stalkers who wait untill you attack PVE monsters so they can snipe you and backstab you while PVE monsters ignore them complety
- people who steal all your stones just because 90% of the damage was done by PVE monster but they poked you just for 10% and it still counts as "death by player"
- cowards who will lure all monsters on you, dissapear and come back when every monster grabbed aggro on you
- zerging
- your own faction players who will rather have someone kill you, instead of helping you, so when they kill your killer, they get both yours and his stones

So much fun, such healthy community, all the joy in the world around new Gank City DLC, the paradise of harassment.

Not to mention IC is basically just another PVE area, with absolutely no PVP specific mechanics and only "enabled PVP". No district control, no CTF, no KOH or other PVP teamplay activities. Just brainless "DPS sees, DPS kills".

All that because someone at ZOS had a dream, a dream where everyone do PVP, so in order to make it happen they created a zone with PVP enable, but in order to bring everyone there, they filled it with PVE content only Because apparently PVPers love the "challenge" of killing someone who is talking to NPC, doing PVE quest, or minding their own business killing mobs.

I'd genuinely like to know what your ideal style of PvP is if you truly believe these things to be "harassment".

I see griefing, harassing, etc all used in conjunction with "ganking" from players that despise PvP. I don't understand it.

I just really want to know what your acceptable PvP setting is. Is it head on 1v1 duels? Is that the only thing that works for people like this?

I wonder about this every day.

Fight with an army? You suck because you Zerg.
Sneak up on someone? You suck because you're a ganker.
Fight someone 4 on 1? You suck because you're picking on people.
Fight someone 1 on 4? You suck because only someone with 11,462,429 Champion Points could do that.

I'm thinking that some people believe the only valid way to PVP is lining up 30 paces from each other and shooting at exactly the count of 3, while using the same gear ... and getting a trophy for it.

Fairness , it has to be everywhere all the time.

Thankfully there's a bit of backlash of it in some places now , I don't think in the 70's/80's they gave these out for us , but I agree with the sentiment. The participation trophy is a display of how good you were at not winning.

JamilaRaj · August 2015

Nighn_9 wrote: »

You get killed, sure u lose TS, but you rez right back up top and then jump down again and go get revenge.....

So, it's basically like Cyrodiil ping pong except with respawn points closer to each other that griefers can not set UA and prevent people from respawning, spoiling everything?

But, to be honest, proximity of respawn points, while bad, is secondary problem. I watched the video with the devs playing the IC and with the exception of initial phase with them trying to farm the boss (who apparently did most of the killing), PvP was markedly similar to what has been recorded to happen when zergballs clash at a flag inside a keep; people frenetically mash buttons, spam skills and...nothing happens, few if any of them die. They just stood there spamming with neither purpose nor result.
I am sure there might be something else, as Cyrodiil too can be fun sometimes, even if more like by accident, but if that was typical PvP of the IC, then...wow, can it be so bad?

sadownik · August 2015

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Nighn_9 wrote: »

You get killed, sure u lose TS, but you rez right back up top and then jump down again and go get revenge.....

So, it's basically like Cyrodiil ping pong except with respawn points closer to each other that griefers can not set UA and prevent people from respawning, spoiling everything?

But, to be honest, proximity of respawn points, while bad, is secondary problem. I watched the video with the devs playing the IC and with the exception of initial phase with them trying to farm the boss (who apparently did most of the killing), PvP was markedly similar to what has been recorded to happen when zergballs clash at a flag inside a keep; people frenetically mash buttons, spam skills and...nothing happens, few if any of them die. They just stood there spamming with neither purpose nor result.
I am sure there might be something else, as Cyrodiil too can be fun sometimes, even if more like by accident, but it that was typical PvP of the IC, then...wow, can it be so bad?

Well we shouldnt expect anything else should we? We will see how it will look in first days of IC when propably whole campaign population will be there.

Sandmanninja · August 2015

JD2013 wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Yes IC is so much fun with:

- pvp exploits
- gank stalkers who wait untill you attack PVE monsters so they can snipe you and backstab you while PVE monsters ignore them complety
- people who steal all your stones just because 90% of the damage was done by PVE monster but they poked you just for 10% and it still counts as "death by player"
- cowards who will lure all monsters on you, dissapear and come back when every monster grabbed aggro on you
- zerging
- your own faction players who will rather have someone kill you, instead of helping you, so when they kill your killer, they get both yours and his stones

So much fun, such healthy community, all the joy in the world around new Gank City DLC, the paradise of harassment.

Not to mention IC is basically just another PVE area, with absolutely no PVP specific mechanics and only "enabled PVP". No district control, no CTF, no KOH or other PVP teamplay activities. Just brainless "DPS sees, DPS kills".

All that because someone at ZOS had a dream, a dream where everyone do PVP, so in order to make it happen they created a zone with PVP enable, but in order to bring everyone there, they filled it with PVE content only Because apparently PVPers love the "challenge" of killing someone who is talking to NPC, doing PVE quest, or minding their own business killing mobs.

I'm just guessing here, but . . . I'm sensing that you don't like PVP?

*** PvP.

I'm looking forward to the dungeons. Just absolutely tired of all the love PvP is getting this xpac.

ItsMeToo · August 2015

FYI - Cyrodiil has always had a lot of PvE content quests in it. It's a PvP zone with PvE and so is IC.

I play both PvE and PvP. I like them both, but I don't think I will be buying IC. I don't like the idea of loosing any TV Stones to either mobs or players. I've played on the PTS a few times and it wasn't fun to me. I even banked some TV Stones.

For those of you that will get the DLC, I hope you have fun.

kevlarto_ESO · August 2015

IC is fun now, I hope it stays that way after the DLC goes live, I just see blobs of TV/AP farmers roaming the streets sucking the fun out of it for most people, but I like the changes I like the longer TTK have has some good fights as opposed to some cheap one shot out of stealth. I just hope after the shine wears off there will still be life in IC, I guess time will tell.

Brightxdawn · August 2015

Will there be non vet zones? Or will non vet players have to play against veteran ranked players?

Skiserony · August 2015

Sandmanninja wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Yes IC is so much fun with:

- pvp exploits
- gank stalkers who wait untill you attack PVE monsters so they can snipe you and backstab you while PVE monsters ignore them complety
- people who steal all your stones just because 90% of the damage was done by PVE monster but they poked you just for 10% and it still counts as "death by player"
- cowards who will lure all monsters on you, dissapear and come back when every monster grabbed aggro on you
- zerging
- your own faction players who will rather have someone kill you, instead of helping you, so when they kill your killer, they get both yours and his stones

So much fun, such healthy community, all the joy in the world around new Gank City DLC, the paradise of harassment.

Not to mention IC is basically just another PVE area, with absolutely no PVP specific mechanics and only "enabled PVP". No district control, no CTF, no KOH or other PVP teamplay activities. Just brainless "DPS sees, DPS kills".

All that because someone at ZOS had a dream, a dream where everyone do PVP, so in order to make it happen they created a zone with PVP enable, but in order to bring everyone there, they filled it with PVE content only Because apparently PVPers love the "challenge" of killing someone who is talking to NPC, doing PVE quest, or minding their own business killing mobs.

I'm just guessing here, but . . . I'm sensing that you don't like PVP?

*** PvP.

I'm looking forward to the dungeons. Just absolutely tired of all the love PvP is getting this xpac.

First love we get since launch. PvE always has gotten the love, and even now there's love for PvE.

Love PvP man, peace.

Artheiron · August 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Yes IC is so much fun with:

- pvp exploits
- gank stalkers who wait untill you attack PVE monsters so they can snipe you and backstab you while PVE monsters ignore them complety
- people who steal all your stones just because 90% of the damage was done by PVE monster but they poked you just for 10% and it still counts as "death by player"
- cowards who will lure all monsters on you, dissapear and come back when every monster grabbed aggro on you
- zerging
- your own faction players who will rather have someone kill you, instead of helping you, so when they kill your killer, they get both yours and his stones

So much fun, such healthy community, all the joy in the world around new Gank City DLC, the paradise of harassment.

Not to mention IC is basically just another PVE area, with absolutely no PVP specific mechanics and only "enabled PVP". No district control, no CTF, no KOH or other PVP teamplay activities. Just brainless "DPS sees, DPS kills".

All that because someone at ZOS had a dream, a dream where everyone do PVP, so in order to make it happen they created a zone with PVP enable, but in order to bring everyone there, they filled it with PVE content only Because apparently PVPers love the "challenge" of killing someone who is talking to NPC, doing PVE quest, or minding their own business killing mobs.

As a hardcore PVP'er I agree. got nothing more to say. So grats! you ended buff campains by removing former emp buffs. and gave people something more appealing, end game items! and now what's gonna happen is they won't stop zerging until campains turn into their buff campain and turn imperial city into a *** Crackwood cave.

IC is the worst design decision that zos've ever made.

eliisra · August 2015

JD2013 wrote: »

So, people complain if it's gated.

People complain if it's not.

What exactly do people want???

Very different things, depending on person maybe?

ZOS cant make everyone happy, so people will always complain about their decisions.

I'm personally happy with the removal of gated IC. But I do understand why people with a different agenda and playstyle, feel unhappy right now. Will be much harder for them to PvE and farm stones in peace, when any faction can enter IC.

sadownik · August 2015

Artheiron wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Yes IC is so much fun with:

- pvp exploits
- gank stalkers who wait untill you attack PVE monsters so they can snipe you and backstab you while PVE monsters ignore them complety
- people who steal all your stones just because 90% of the damage was done by PVE monster but they poked you just for 10% and it still counts as "death by player"
- cowards who will lure all monsters on you, dissapear and come back when every monster grabbed aggro on you
- zerging
- your own faction players who will rather have someone kill you, instead of helping you, so when they kill your killer, they get both yours and his stones

So much fun, such healthy community, all the joy in the world around new Gank City DLC, the paradise of harassment.

Not to mention IC is basically just another PVE area, with absolutely no PVP specific mechanics and only "enabled PVP". No district control, no CTF, no KOH or other PVP teamplay activities. Just brainless "DPS sees, DPS kills".

All that because someone at ZOS had a dream, a dream where everyone do PVP, so in order to make it happen they created a zone with PVP enable, but in order to bring everyone there, they filled it with PVE content only Because apparently PVPers love the "challenge" of killing someone who is talking to NPC, doing PVE quest, or minding their own business killing mobs.

As a hardcore PVP'er I agree. got nothing more to say. So grats! you ended buff campains by removing former emp buffs. and gave people something more appealing, end game items! and now what's gonna happen is they won't stop zerging until campains turn into their buff campain and turn imperial city into a *** Crackwood cave.

IC is the worst design decision that zos've ever made.

I think it will be worse - since latest news is that it will be open for all - cyrodil will be empty.

Carde · August 2015

Very informative, @MrGhosty. Thank you. All of that makes perfect sense and I agree with pretty much all of it.

twistedmonk · August 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Yes IC is so much fun with:

- pvp exploits
- gank stalkers who wait untill you attack PVE monsters so they can snipe you and backstab you while PVE monsters ignore them complety
- people who steal all your stones just because 90% of the damage was done by PVE monster but they poked you just for 10% and it still counts as "death by player"
- cowards who will lure all monsters on you, dissapear and come back when every monster grabbed aggro on you
- zerging
- your own faction players who will rather have someone kill you, instead of helping you, so when they kill your killer, they get both yours and his stones
.

Looking at the PvP rules of IC, none of these are surprising to see.

I think the developers have rose colored glasses on and think everybody in the same realm is on your side. It makes perfect sense that if the goal is to collect Tel Var stones, that you want the enemy player to kill as many of your team as possible and then kill them to get all the stones for yourself. that's a no brainer.

PvP is more like Darwinism than team camaraderie.

twistedmonk · August 2015

mrdankles wrote: »

Seems like poop. 50% damage reduction ok, I can see MAYBE 25%. Why the hell should a fight last minutes?.

people are still getting 2-3 shotted in PTS. Magic detonation for example can crit for 22k aoe dmg. and the new meta pvp set - you can kill people in 4 light attacks.

Jamersonb16_ESO · August 2015

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Carde wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Yes IC is so much fun with:

- pvp exploits
- gank stalkers who wait untill you attack PVE monsters so they can snipe you and backstab you while PVE monsters ignore them complety
- people who steal all your stones just because 90% of the damage was done by PVE monster but they poked you just for 10% and it still counts as "death by player"
- cowards who will lure all monsters on you, dissapear and come back when every monster grabbed aggro on you
- zerging
- your own faction players who will rather have someone kill you, instead of helping you, so when they kill your killer, they get both yours and his stones

So much fun, such healthy community, all the joy in the world around new Gank City DLC, the paradise of harassment.

Not to mention IC is basically just another PVE area, with absolutely no PVP specific mechanics and only "enabled PVP". No district control, no CTF, no KOH or other PVP teamplay activities. Just brainless "DPS sees, DPS kills".

All that because someone at ZOS had a dream, a dream where everyone do PVP, so in order to make it happen they created a zone with PVP enable, but in order to bring everyone there, they filled it with PVE content only Because apparently PVPers love the "challenge" of killing someone who is talking to NPC, doing PVE quest, or minding their own business killing mobs.

I'd genuinely like to know what your ideal style of PvP is if you truly believe these things to be "harassment".

I see griefing, harassing, etc all used in conjunction with "ganking" from players that despise PvP. I don't understand it.

I just really want to know what your acceptable PvP setting is. Is it head on 1v1 duels? Is that the only thing that works for people like this?

I wonder about this every day.

Fight with an army? You suck because you Zerg.
Sneak up on someone? You suck because you're a ganker.
Fight someone 4 on 1? You suck because you're picking on people.
Fight someone 1 on 4? You suck because only someone with 11,462,429 Champion Points could do that.

I'm thinking that some people believe the only valid way to PVP is lining up 30 paces from each other and shooting at exactly the count of 3, while using the same gear ... and getting a trophy for it.

Actually the way I see it is just 'don't be a d**k'.

If an enemy is fighting a mob, don't wait until they're at low health and then jump in and kill them - that's being a d**k. It requires no skill and your opponent has zero chance. How is that possibly fun for you?

If you're in a group of 4 or 5 and you find a lone enemy, don't all wade in at once - that's being a d**k. See above for reasons.

As for the rest of your examples - sadly it's down to poor design by ZOS. They've created a game where there's no downside to zerging (and no, fighting with an army using tactics and organisation isn't zerging - that's the aim of the game. Zerging is where 20 other people follow such a group mindlessly with no thought for tactics). As a result, mindless zerging is the overwhelming mechanic - poor game design.

Sneaking up on someone? Again, sadly poor game design means you can very easily 1or 2 shot someone from stealth, or stun lock them to death. As a result, sneaking up in someone changes from a legitimate tactic where you gain a slight advantage from the element of surprise to a d**k ganker move - it requires zero skill and your opponent has zero chance. Poor game design.

The one area I agree with you on is the standard response to someone winning a 1v4 - the immediate response is a whine about CP rather than anyone bothering to learn from the encounter. Sadly this is again poor design by ZOS in introducing a vertical progression system based on length of time played. Vets will always have a stat advantage and that allows people who may in fact have been beaten by superior player skill an easy 'out' to blame it on.

Basically it's one poor PvP design decision piled on top of another which has resulted in a pretty crappy PvP experience. Thank god for an ongoing tech alpha which might finally give us a PvP game worth playing..

ItsMeToo · August 2015

What's this "player skill" you're talking about?

It's just mashing keys with a faster internet connection = win.

Not any skill in that.

delushin · August 2015

I am super pumped as #RGC is getting ready push harder into PvP, yea ok the game has been out on console for awhile and we are a little behind but having an active mature community comes first.

Now we will start to lock down are official PvP days get our streams fired up and soon position ourselves as the guild causing tears in IC.

GreySix · August 2015

Hmm. Thanks for the info.

Will avoid that DLC like the plague.

Osteos · August 2015

I've been on the pts the past 2 nights. I made a new vet 16 templar healer and have been running amok in the memorial district. Not in a group, well occasionally 1 friend joins me, just sticking with the other DC healing them and its been a blast!

So far in 2 days, couple of hours of play time for each, I've accumulated about 2000 stones. I haven't been very careful and I have lost large amounts, 400+ on one death, but its the pts so I really don't care about losing them now.

Memorial district seems to be where the pvpers have gathered to fight. So if you decide to try out the pts and don't want to pvp I would avoid that district for now. I have been avoiding the other districts to give the pve people room to roam. When I went in alone on my DK to explore I was able to move around and kill npcs without too much trouble in the other districts.

If you can, go on the pts and try it out. Use the rope ladders by the bank and you will spawn in an elevated safe location. Stealth and observe the district before you drop down.

Troneon · August 2015

A few things I have noticed that could improve IC a lot and get rid a lot of issues.

Champion Points balance needs to be fixed asap, pvp is not competitive until they do and is easy to stay alive and instant kill people when you have 1000+ champion points against those that have none or less than 100....

Faction spawn locations need to be rotated every week to mix things up a bit. Is weird they have not done this anyway...

Nightblades and Sorcs are insanely strong on PTS, class balance needs another look.

Spawn Camping, on PTS this happens 99% of the time, even if your in a group, as soon as you leave spawn, expect to get picked off by 3-4 nightblades spamming you until you die even if your with a large force, if they fail to kill you, they just run off and hide again. The troll nightblades are also all over the place, griefers who do not care about killing you, just keeping you in combat and hiding again over and over to annoy the crap out of you and stop you doing what you are trying to.

Spawn camp farming will get old and stupid kind of fast, widening the "safe" areas to give more entrances and exit options on each spawn location will force campers to have to scatter out more, players will have more options on how to leave spawn giving a bit more diversity while keeping the high risks there for gankers.

The damage nerf was too much on PTS, it needs to be brought up again, not a lot but just a little more. Fights can last forever with both parties just not killing each other, especially in solo fights or 1vX's, I like how it's made fights be more about tactics but it means you could make 4-5 mistakes and still live without much player skill, it's a little too forgiving and makes fights last way too long sometimes, so yeah a slight increase of maybe 10-20% away from the damage nerf would fix that.

But overall it seems like a pretty awesome update, these are more small tweaks and balance changes that really do need to be addressed sooner rather than later or people will just get fed up and stop playing after the first "hype" new content feeling wears off.