Sharpened fixed or no, confirm ZOS?

Ryuho · August 2015

I ve tested yesterday on my tempar with nice NA nb penetration yesterday. Thanks for testing mate. The results were as follow (with k, to lazy to note exact numbers):
Templar - 20k armor unbuffed, 28k armor buffed
NB - 3k wpn dmg, buffed ~4k, 20 points in penetration CP

Test with 2 swords eq by NB - sharpened:
Without cricle temp buff
suprise - 3k +, crit 5k +
With temp circle buff
suprise - 2k +, crit 4k +

Test with 2 maaces eq by NB - sharpened:
Without cricle temp buff
suprise - 5k +, crit 8k +
With temp circle buff
suprise - 4k +, crit 6k +

Its around 2k diffrence in dmg, with crit even ~3k with maces equiped.. @ZOS_GinaBruno confirm is that intended? Or bug still is around?

Also why u added armor debuff to suprise.. Seriously previous version was more balanced, u applied debuff from sneak and attacked.. Now stmaina nbs are able to spam debuff all the time.. In such situation maybe add spell resist debuff to sorc crystal, spell resist debuff to templar jabs (armor debuff to stam version), spell resist debuff to DKs whip.. Casue evrything is about balance, righty?

Idk why is point using heavy armor, if som1 is able to cut u esly like a butter..

Jeckll · August 2015

Sharpened is working now correctly and Surprise Attack has always applied Major Fracture.
Here are my testings for further info.

Ryuho · August 2015

Thanks for sharing. But I want confirmation from ZOS anyway, cause my resuslts show insane numbers..

Jeckll · August 2015

Ryuho wrote: »

Thanks for sharing. But its pve test, I want confirmation from pvp perspective.

The combat system doesnt care if you hit a person or a mob. If it's fixed vs a Mammoth, it's also working on players. I will do tests vs players to confirm the best weapon set combinations for both, pvp and pve later this week.

I will share that info as well as soon as I'm finished.

Ryuho · August 2015

Jeckll wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

Thanks for sharing. But its pve test, I want confirmation from pvp perspective.

The combat system doesnt care if you hit a person or a mob. If it's fixed vs a Mammoth, it's also working on players. I will do tests vs players to confirm the best weapon set combinations for both, pvp and pve later this week.

I will share that info as well as soon as I'm finished.

Aye I know, corected myself. Really apreciate that info. Anyway 20% more dmg, just wearing 2 maces... Nice..

Jeckll · August 2015

Ryuho wrote: »

Jeckll wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

Thanks for sharing. But its pve test, I want confirmation from pvp perspective.

The combat system doesnt care if you hit a person or a mob. If it's fixed vs a Mammoth, it's also working on players. I will do tests vs players to confirm the best weapon set combinations for both, pvp and pve later this week.

I will share that info as well as soon as I'm finished.

Aye I know, corected myself. Really apreciate that info. Anyway 20% more dmg, just wearing 2 maces... Nice..

Well it's not the whole story. double precise dagger give you 17% extra crit compared to sharpened mace. With the major buff to the Shadow Mundus, that's also a major damage increase.

Ryuho · August 2015

Jeckll wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

Jeckll wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

Thanks for sharing. But its pve test, I want confirmation from pvp perspective.

The combat system doesnt care if you hit a person or a mob. If it's fixed vs a Mammoth, it's also working on players. I will do tests vs players to confirm the best weapon set combinations for both, pvp and pve later this week.

I will share that info as well as soon as I'm finished.

Aye I know, corected myself. Really apreciate that info. Anyway 20% more dmg, just wearing 2 maces... Nice..

Well it's not the whole story. double precise dagger give you 17% extra crit compared to sharpened mace. With the major buff to the Shadow Mundus, that's also a major damage increase.

GG @ZOS_GinaBruno

Soris · August 2015

And the major flaw is, the more armor you have the more it reduced by debuffs. It's just like a punishment.
Say a heavy armor user have 20k base armor. When someone use dual maces and major debuff on you, your armor is left for 10k
And as a light armor say you have 10k armor, it reduced to 5k.
How good is that..?

Jeckll · August 2015

Soris wrote: »

And the major flaw is, the more armor you have the more it reduced by debuffs. It's just like a punishment.
Say a heavy armor user have 20k base armor. When someone use dual maces and major debuff on you, your armor is left for 10k
And as a light armor say you have 10k armor, it reduced to 5k.
How good is that..?

It's not a punishment, its a trade off. If I run double sharpened mace, I have a benefit against heavy armor targets while against low armor targets, swords or daggers would be better by a large margin. The game offers choice (now that its working correctly)...do I want do be a tank buster or do I want to prefor better against ligth armor targets...

All coins have two sides, you know.

Soris · August 2015

Jeckll wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

And the major flaw is, the more armor you have the more it reduced by debuffs. It's just like a punishment.
Say a heavy armor user have 20k base armor. When someone use dual maces and major debuff on you, your armor is left for 10k
And as a light armor say you have 10k armor, it reduced to 5k.
How good is that..?

It's not a punishment, its a trade off. If I run double sharpened mace, I have a benefit against heavy armor targets while against low armor targets, swords or daggers would be better by a large margin. The game offers choice (now that its working correctly)...do I want do be a tank buster or do I want to prefor better against ligth armor targets...

All coins have two sides, you know.

But the point is heavy armor is already flawed by not giving any real bonuses. You gimp your damage and regen values for a bit of more passive defences. The most useful passive was the bracing passive and now blocking got nerfed. Ofc it still has its use, but not as good as before.

And on top of these, it is punished by percentage values. You are almost as squishy as a light armor user vs a good nightblade. And you dont have the passive bonusses of light armor. So why would anyone choose heavy armor over light or medium armor? There is not much answers that actually make some sense.

Ryuho · August 2015

20% inc dmg is not fair, gimme something like that for spell pene and i am happy with that, ty. For example change elemental weakness to instant dmg dealing 8k crit like nbs suprise with proper spell powa and i am happy with keeping mace like they are now..

Lorkhan · August 2015

yes, sharpened maces has a a advantage agaist heavy armor, but it's useless against damage shields.
it's really a trade off, because swords are better against magika shields and light armor
precise daggers shine in pve. and axes.....well...it sucks.

Ryuho · August 2015

Lorkhan wrote: »

yes, sharpened maces has a a advantage agaist heavy armor, but it's useless against damage shields.
it's really a trade off, because swords are better against magika shields and light armor
precise daggers shine in pve. and axes.....well...it sucks.

agree, its trade off for DW user, but how about opponent? heavy armor user trade regens to get defense, but vs som1 with 2 maces he is almost naked, balanced? i think no

Jeckll · August 2015

Ryuho wrote: »

20% inc dmg is not fair, gimme something like that for spell pene and i am happy with that, ty.

Well mate, you HAVE something like that. Light Armor passive plus Nirnhorned or Sharpened is a pretty nice penetration value as well.

Ryuho wrote: »

agree, its trade off for DW user, but how about opponent? heavy armor user trade regens to get defense, but vs som1 with 2 maces he is almost naked, balanced? i think no

Heavy Armor users are strong against targets without stacked penetration and wear against others.
Penetration Stackers are strong against targets with stacked Armor/Spell Resistance but weak against others.

It's the same thing. Everyone trades something the get something else.

Cinbri · August 2015

Don't know is it work as intended, but it is not nice to eat 8k WB while with 25k physical armor.

Lorkhan · August 2015

Ryuho wrote: »

Lorkhan wrote: »

yes, sharpened maces has a a advantage agaist heavy armor, but it's useless against damage shields.
it's really a trade off, because swords are better against magika shields and light armor
precise daggers shine in pve. and axes.....well...it sucks.

agree, its trade off for DW user, but how about opponent? heavy armor user trade regens to get defense, but vs som1 with 2 maces he is almost naked, balanced? i think no

why not? maces are the only counter to your build.
do you know Rock paper scissors?

Ryuho · August 2015

so i trade evrything to gain spell resist + armor, which wont work if som1 stacks penetration... yeah great, so maybe remove heavy armor completly, and bring back 1.1 or lwoer when we experienced light armor tanks

i am just saying maces need tweaking..

Besides, i can always run with light armor, and spam healing ward like a pro, yupi

Soris · August 2015

Lorkhan wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

Lorkhan wrote: »

yes, sharpened maces has a a advantage agaist heavy armor, but it's useless against damage shields.
it's really a trade off, because swords are better against magika shields and light armor
precise daggers shine in pve. and axes.....well...it sucks.

agree, its trade off for DW user, but how about opponent? heavy armor user trade regens to get defense, but vs som1 with 2 maces he is almost naked, balanced? i think no

why not? maces are the only counter to your build.
do you know Rock paper scissors?

How can this heavy armor guy counter that penetration build then? There were once templar shield and dk shield to counter these builds, but they are history now.

It is actually more like Rock Rock and Rock. As rock penetrates paper and crushes scissors.

Jeckll · August 2015

Ryuho wrote: »

so i trade evrything to gain spell resist + armor, which wont work if som1 stacks penetration...

I dont know how to phrase it in another way.

The Sharpened Mace user trades everything to gain an advantage over heavy armor uses, which wont work if someone doesnt use Heavy Armor.

Everyone trades stuff to get another benefit. Sharpened Mace is the direct counter to heavy armor but sucks against light armor and is mediocre vs medium.

Jeckll · August 2015

Soris wrote: »

[

How can this heavy armor guy counter that penetration build then?

Wear Light or Medium is the counter to a penetration build. Because it's % based, it sucks against low armor values.

Ryuho · August 2015

Jeckll wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

so i trade evrything to gain spell resist + armor, which wont work if som1 stacks penetration...

I dont know how to phrase it in another way.

The Sharpened Mace user trades everything to gain an advantage over heavy armor uses, which wont work if someone doesnt use Heavy Armor.

Everyone trades stuff to get another benefit. Sharpened Mace is the direct counter to heavy armor but sucks against light armor and is mediocre vs medium.

Its not true.. Its great for each possible opponent..

So tell me my dear how to counter that??? Oh yea, spam healing ward.. well 1 suprise and its gone.. maybe use blazing shield?? right, its so OP

oh wait, make heavy tank perma block *** build which only blcok and not deal any dmg, great I found my way to go!! Thx!

Ryuho · August 2015

Jeckll wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

[

How can this heavy armor guy counter that penetration build then?

Wear Light or Medium is the counter to a penetration build. Because it's % based, it sucks against low armor values.

Nice.. play as u want

Thx for tip.

Teiji · August 2015

Ryuho wrote: »

Jeckll wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

[

How can this heavy armor guy counter that penetration build then?

Wear Light or Medium is the counter to a penetration build. Because it's % based, it sucks against low armor values.

Nice.. play as u want Thx for tip.

Until Heavy Armor gets updated, it will remain PvE armor extreme niche cases may occur from time-to-time where it's okay, but honestly, if you're going to play solo? Stack light armor, Healing Ward + Damp Magic, stack medium armor, Evasion and tons of weapon damage, heavy armor? Go back to your dungeons!

Ryuho · August 2015

Teiji wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

Jeckll wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

[

How can this heavy armor guy counter that penetration build then?

Wear Light or Medium is the counter to a penetration build. Because it's % based, it sucks against low armor values.

Nice.. play as u want Thx for tip.

Until Heavy Armor gets updated, it will remain PvE armor extreme niche cases may occur from time-to-time where it's okay, but honestly, if you're going to play solo? Stack light armor, Healing Ward + Damp Magic, stack medium armor, Evasion and tons of weapon damage, heavy armor? Go back to your dungeons!

Hahahahahah, i played extrmly pvp only.. and likewise.. and thanks for ur pro tip

good to know more proshieldstackers

Rune_Relic · August 2015

Any chance you can test...

sharpened mace + defending mace
sharpened mace + defending axe
sharpened axe + defending axe

sharpened mace + sharpened mace
sharpened mace + sharpened axe
sharpened axe + sharpened axe

defending mace + defending mace
defending mace + defending axe
defending axe + defending axe

Penetration increases with sharpened and armour rating (defending).
Maces give you TB&B bonus too.
Would be nice to know if everything is working properly on PTS with dual wield.
DW behaves very funky in the UI.

Thanks