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Puncturing Sweep & Biting Jabs Isn't Really That Interactive or Fun
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SeptimusDova✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok to make biting jabs more interactive and fun. Have the last strike confer the wabbajack morph upon the target.
the puncturing sweep morph should have a proc chance to award the user with skooma AND play the Andy Griffin Whistle song. On last strike it summons Godzilla !!!
SKOOMA FOR THE WIN FUREVER !!!!!5 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭Yes because we just need more things that stop regeneration...Personofsecrets wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert
I hope you can pass on a sentiment that several people have had here about Biting Jabs and Puncturing Sweep.
Right now those abilities have lead to Templars getting some of the highest DPS and that is fine, but the play style involved with those abilities isn't really that interactive and it isn't really that fun.
At the very basic level, using those abilities just requires using them all of the time and in succession. It is really just a single button press over and over.
I think a solution to this issue would be if players regeneration stopped while they where using Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs. The reason that this would be a solution is because it would incentivize players to use fully charged heavy attacks when they are running low on resources. It would also encourage more team play because the users of Puncturing Sweep & Biting Jabs would have to rely more on the other players in the group as sources for stamina and magic.
Anyhow, this is a pretty easy fix and I think it would be best for the future of the game. I hope to see this implemented. Thanks!
@Wing @MaximusDargus
Can you show examples where this is the norm that Templars spam this over and over and again and do not run out of resources, nor need to use heavy attacks to get resources back?
This is a pretty horrendous suggestion honestly. We do not need more abilities that make regen laughable. You will just force Templars to spam Force Pulse or Wrecking Blow instead.
As someone who plays a Templar, I quite like Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps and know many who do that would not support this change.Jadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
It's softcaps not only CS. CS just makes it worse. Didn't you read what I wrote?Personofsecrets wrote: »
Why bother when there are people to make those threads, right?Personofsecrets wrote: »
So the problem isnt only jabs you see? But hey nerf jabs and we pretend all goodPersonofsecrets wrote: »
Hey, go ahead an make a thread to change the things that you think are the must unfun and uninteractive.
Having no softcaps coupled with champion system is the root of the problem. Isn't that so obvious?
So why not bringing it back instead of this and block/dodge nerfs?
I'm not totally sure what you mean, but I see your point about champion points as possibly being valid. You should make a thread detailing your opinions about champion points and how they effect players power level and play style.
That being said, I don't see the champion point system as going anywhere so I therefore think what would be best for the health of the game is the slight tweak to abilities that I discuss in the original post.
Anyways.
I'll just step back a bit and watch the fun. While hoping the best for game that ZOS will finally start listening reasonable feedbacks.
As I wrote, I'm not totally sure what you mean. You should really give your feedback so that ZOS has some fresh opinions to consider.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.1 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭bosmern_ESO wrote: »Your asking for a nerf for Templars, the single templar ability that is actually good.
It isn't a nerf to a skill so much as it is a buff to combat as a whole. People are just going to have to change their thinking about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.1 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »Your asking for a nerf for Templars, the single templar ability that is actually good.
It isn't a nerf to a skill so much as it is a buff to combat as a whole. People are just going to have to change their thinking about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
It's a direct nerf to the skill.
It's a direct nerf to combat. You are lowering the overall DPS of any Templar that uses that as their main DPS ability.
If you want to change combat, then make it so you lose regen while using any ability with a cast time, not just Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps.Jadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
Kaliki✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »Your asking for a nerf for Templars, the single templar ability that is actually good.
It isn't a nerf to a skill so much as it is a buff to combat as a whole. People are just going to have to change their thinking about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
All that will do is make me have no alternative to Crushing Shock spam. And that is more fun?
Essentially relying on 1 dps skill is a flaw in the class that you can only come by through buffing some other skills or providing synergies with weapon skill lines.
- Templars: Slower by Design® -0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »Your asking for a nerf for Templars, the single templar ability that is actually good.
It isn't a nerf to a skill so much as it is a buff to combat as a whole. People are just going to have to change their thinking about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
It's a direct nerf to the skill.
It's a direct nerf to combat. You are lowering the overall DPS of any Templar that uses that as their main DPS ability.
If you want to change combat, then make it so you lose regen while using any ability with a cast time, not just Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps.Personofsecrets wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »Your asking for a nerf for Templars, the single templar ability that is actually good.
It isn't a nerf to a skill so much as it is a buff to combat as a whole. People are just going to have to change their thinking about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
All that will do is make me have no alternative to Crushing Shock spam. And that is more fun?
Essentially relying on 1 dps skill is a flaw in the class that you can only come by through buffing some other skills or providing synergies with weapon skill lines.
I'm open to my small tweak being applied to all abilities that get used over and over. That being said, this thread is about what I feel is the worst offender of the single skill button play style, puncturing sweep and biting jabs.
Let's be honest. The adjustment that I suggest wouldn't be that bad and, besides, how do you even know it would be bad without having tested the change first?
Hopefully someone at ZOS can initiate my suggested tweak so that we can start playing that way and testing as soon as possible.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.2 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »Your asking for a nerf for Templars, the single templar ability that is actually good.
It isn't a nerf to a skill so much as it is a buff to combat as a whole. People are just going to have to change their thinking about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
It's a direct nerf to the skill.
It's a direct nerf to combat. You are lowering the overall DPS of any Templar that uses that as their main DPS ability.
If you want to change combat, then make it so you lose regen while using any ability with a cast time, not just Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps.Personofsecrets wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »Your asking for a nerf for Templars, the single templar ability that is actually good.
It isn't a nerf to a skill so much as it is a buff to combat as a whole. People are just going to have to change their thinking about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
All that will do is make me have no alternative to Crushing Shock spam. And that is more fun?
Essentially relying on 1 dps skill is a flaw in the class that you can only come by through buffing some other skills or providing synergies with weapon skill lines.
I'm open to my small tweak being applied to all abilities that get used over and over. That being said, this thread is about what I feel is the worst offender of the single skill button play style, puncturing sweep and biting jabs.
Let's be honest. The adjustment that I suggest wouldn't be that bad and, besides, how do you even know it would be bad without having tested the change first?
Hopefully someone at ZOS can initiate my suggested tweak so that we can start playing that way and testing as soon as possible.
You are singling out one ability over the many that are used in the context of what your suggesting...that is why people bring up more than just this one ability in your thread. Are we not allowed to talk about this because you don't want us to? We are looking at your proposal, and if it goes through, which I sure as hell hope it doesn't, making suggestions so that it does not completely nerf one of the only good DPS abilities that Templars currently have.
Yes, the adjustment would be bad. Haha, I mean how can you honestly say that? How do you even know your suggestion would be good without having tested the change first? I can say the same thing back to you.
You are talking about either A. making regen useless for people who want to use Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps or B. making the ability not worth the slot on the ability bar.
I'd much rather have ZOS work on fixing broken abilities, bugs, and new content than giving this thought the light of day.Jadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »Your asking for a nerf for Templars, the single templar ability that is actually good.
It isn't a nerf to a skill so much as it is a buff to combat as a whole. People are just going to have to change their thinking about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
It's a direct nerf to the skill.
It's a direct nerf to combat. You are lowering the overall DPS of any Templar that uses that as their main DPS ability.
If you want to change combat, then make it so you lose regen while using any ability with a cast time, not just Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps.Personofsecrets wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »Your asking for a nerf for Templars, the single templar ability that is actually good.
It isn't a nerf to a skill so much as it is a buff to combat as a whole. People are just going to have to change their thinking about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
All that will do is make me have no alternative to Crushing Shock spam. And that is more fun?
Essentially relying on 1 dps skill is a flaw in the class that you can only come by through buffing some other skills or providing synergies with weapon skill lines.
I'm open to my small tweak being applied to all abilities that get used over and over. That being said, this thread is about what I feel is the worst offender of the single skill button play style, puncturing sweep and biting jabs.
Let's be honest. The adjustment that I suggest wouldn't be that bad and, besides, how do you even know it would be bad without having tested the change first?
Hopefully someone at ZOS can initiate my suggested tweak so that we can start playing that way and testing as soon as possible.
You are singling out one ability over the many that are used in the context of what your suggesting...that is why people bring up more than just this one ability in your thread. Are we not allowed to talk about this because you don't want us to? We are looking at your proposal, and if it goes through, which I sure as hell hope it doesn't, making suggestions so that it does not completely nerf one of the only good DPS abilities that Templars currently have.
Yes, the adjustment would be bad. Haha, I mean how can you honestly say that? How do you even know your suggestion would be good without having tested the change first? I can say the same thing back to you.
You are talking about either A. making regen useless for people who want to use Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps or B. making the ability not worth the slot on the ability bar.
I'd much rather have ZOS work on fixing broken abilities, bugs, and new content than giving this thought the light of day.
I have approved of every single post in the thread that suggests other skills also become more fine tuned so that they can't just be used over and over again. Please do not exaggerate by saying that I have unfairly picked one skill to change. I have verbally said that the other changes suggested in this thread are good ideas.
Content would certainly be doable with my small tweak, but players will have to make a few adjustments to their play styles. This wouldn't be a big deal at all.
I am really happy with my suggestion and stick by what I said. I think an adjustment to Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs would be good for the long term health of the game.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.2 -
Dragath✭✭✭✭players press buttons while playing ESO.
this is not interactive and fun.
please remove all buttons!
seriously, if you want skills to be interactive and fun, then ZOE has to change a lot of, if not all, skills.
do you really think that will happen? really?
im sorry for you, if you do.
and lets not forget, just going to stop the regen does not make the skill more interactive and fun at all. it just implements a penalty for button pressing.
go back to the drawing board and think of something that would actually be fun and interactive.Edited by Dragath on August 17, 2015 7:15PM3 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭players press buttons while playing ESO.
this is not interactive and fun.
please remove all buttons!
seriously, if you want skills to be interactive and fun, then ZOE has to change a lot of, if not all, skills.
do you really think that will happen? really?
im sorry for you, if you do.
and lets not forget, just going to stop the regen does not make the skill more interactive and fun at all. it just implements a penalty for button pressing.
go back to the drawing board and think of something that would actually be fun and interactive.
Do you have any suggestions for ZOS to make combat more fun? I'm pretty sure that my tweak would help, but maybe the will like your feedback to =(^_^)=Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.2 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is this the part you come out and say, "Hey look, why doesn't this work for you DPS people? It worked to make tanking so much more fun." ...still waiting for it.0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Is this the part you come out and say, "Hey look, why doesn't this work for you DPS people? It worked to make tanking so much more fun." ...still waiting for it.
There are plenty of discussions about tanking already if that is what you want to discuss.
Please keep the discussion in this thread about Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs. Thank youRest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.2 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭Personofsecrets wrote: »Is this the part you come out and say, "Hey look, why doesn't this work for you DPS people? It worked to make tanking so much more fun." ...still waiting for it.
There are plenty of discussions about tanking already if that is what you want to discuss.
Please keep the discussion in this thread about Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs. Thank you
So...please explain why you'd single out one skill for this treatment.
All you've said so far is that 'it'll be more fun.' That's hardly a compelling argument.
It sounds to me more like you're trolling. Could be wrong, but I guess I won't know until you actually say something with some substance.
0 -
Rinmaethodain✭✭✭✭✭
✭Personofsecrets wrote: »Is this the part you come out and say, "Hey look, why doesn't this work for you DPS people? It worked to make tanking so much more fun." ...still waiting for it.
There are plenty of discussions about tanking already if that is what you want to discuss.
Please keep the discussion in this thread about Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs. Thank you
So...please explain why you'd single out one skill for this treatment.
All you've said so far is that 'it'll be more fun.' That's hardly a compelling argument.
It sounds to me more like you're trolling. Could be wrong, but I guess I won't know until you actually say something with some substance.
Its not only going to make it more fun. It will also be good for long term health of game. Players will just have to adapt.0 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »Is this the part you come out and say, "Hey look, why doesn't this work for you DPS people? It worked to make tanking so much more fun." ...still waiting for it.
There are plenty of discussions about tanking already if that is what you want to discuss.
Please keep the discussion in this thread about Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs. Thank you
So...please explain why you'd single out one skill for this treatment.
All you've said so far is that 'it'll be more fun.' That's hardly a compelling argument.
It sounds to me more like you're trolling. Could be wrong, but I guess I won't know until you actually say something with some substance.
Its not only going to make it more fun. It will also be good for long term health of game. Players will just have to adapt.
You're restating the things that were said about blocking. It's not that clever. Why don't you go on a rant about your conspiracy theory that ZOS only plays DPS and they want to destroy healing and tanking?
(I play a Tank, a Healer and a DPS, by the way.)0 -
Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There's also like 5-6 buffs/dots I try to keep up too! Just because it's our main source of damage doesn't mean we just spam it non stop.Daggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||0 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »Is this the part you come out and say, "Hey look, why doesn't this work for you DPS people? It worked to make tanking so much more fun." ...still waiting for it.
There are plenty of discussions about tanking already if that is what you want to discuss.
Please keep the discussion in this thread about Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs. Thank you
So...please explain why you'd single out one skill for this treatment.
All you've said so far is that 'it'll be more fun.' That's hardly a compelling argument.
It sounds to me more like you're trolling. Could be wrong, but I guess I won't know until you actually say something with some substance.
Its not only going to make it more fun. It will also be good for long term health of game. Players will just have to adapt.
You're restating the things that were said about blocking. It's not that clever. Why don't you go on a rant about your conspiracy theory that ZOS only plays DPS and they want to destroy healing and tanking?
(I play a Tank, a Healer and a DPS, by the way.)
Hahahaha this almost made me spit out my coffee. It's completely true, and they have been pissed at ZOS because it's the only answer they have really given about the 0 stamina regen while blocking too.Jadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
Speely✭✭✭✭I am all for combat being more interactive and fun. I don't think rendering a skill useless would make it any more fun, however. Moreover, I find Jabs/Sweep to be wonderfully fun and satisfying. Strafing around packs of enemies and catching them all in a conal fury of laser stabs is pretty much awesome. Plus since it's a channel, one has to be aware of incoming attacks and cut it off to block. That makes it way more interactive than any block-castable skill already.1 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »Is this the part you come out and say, "Hey look, why doesn't this work for you DPS people? It worked to make tanking so much more fun." ...still waiting for it.
There are plenty of discussions about tanking already if that is what you want to discuss.
Please keep the discussion in this thread about Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs. Thank you
So...please explain why you'd single out one skill for this treatment.
All you've said so far is that 'it'll be more fun.' That's hardly a compelling argument.
It sounds to me more like you're trolling. Could be wrong, but I guess I won't know until you actually say something with some substance.
Its not only going to make it more fun. It will also be good for long term health of game. Players will just have to adapt.
You're restating the things that were said about blocking. It's not that clever. Why don't you go on a rant about your conspiracy theory that ZOS only plays DPS and they want to destroy healing and tanking?
(I play a Tank, a Healer and a DPS, by the way.)
Again, please stop attempting to derail the thread. It is about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
If you would like to discuss how to make those skills more fun and interactive, then please voice your opinion, but do not drag a bunch of unrelated ideas into the discussion.Edited by Personofsecrets on August 17, 2015 7:36PMRest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.2 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »Your asking for a nerf for Templars, the single templar ability that is actually good.
It isn't a nerf to a skill so much as it is a buff to combat as a whole. People are just going to have to change their thinking about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
It's a direct nerf to the skill.
It's a direct nerf to combat. You are lowering the overall DPS of any Templar that uses that as their main DPS ability.
If you want to change combat, then make it so you lose regen while using any ability with a cast time, not just Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps.Personofsecrets wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »Your asking for a nerf for Templars, the single templar ability that is actually good.
It isn't a nerf to a skill so much as it is a buff to combat as a whole. People are just going to have to change their thinking about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
All that will do is make me have no alternative to Crushing Shock spam. And that is more fun?
Essentially relying on 1 dps skill is a flaw in the class that you can only come by through buffing some other skills or providing synergies with weapon skill lines.
I'm open to my small tweak being applied to all abilities that get used over and over. That being said, this thread is about what I feel is the worst offender of the single skill button play style, puncturing sweep and biting jabs.
Let's be honest. The adjustment that I suggest wouldn't be that bad and, besides, how do you even know it would be bad without having tested the change first?
Hopefully someone at ZOS can initiate my suggested tweak so that we can start playing that way and testing as soon as possible.
You are singling out one ability over the many that are used in the context of what your suggesting...that is why people bring up more than just this one ability in your thread. Are we not allowed to talk about this because you don't want us to? We are looking at your proposal, and if it goes through, which I sure as hell hope it doesn't, making suggestions so that it does not completely nerf one of the only good DPS abilities that Templars currently have.
Yes, the adjustment would be bad. Haha, I mean how can you honestly say that? How do you even know your suggestion would be good without having tested the change first? I can say the same thing back to you.
You are talking about either A. making regen useless for people who want to use Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps or B. making the ability not worth the slot on the ability bar.
I'd much rather have ZOS work on fixing broken abilities, bugs, and new content than giving this thought the light of day.
I have approved of every single post in the thread that suggests other skills also become more fine tuned so that they can't just be used over and over again. Please do not exaggerate by saying that I have unfairly picked one skill to change. I have verbally said that the other changes suggested in this thread are good ideas.
Content would certainly be doable with my small tweak, but players will have to make a few adjustments to their play styles. This wouldn't be a big deal at all.
I am really happy with my suggestion and stick by what I said. I think an adjustment to Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs would be good for the long term health of the game.
Except you did pick just one skill...these are your words not mine. While you've said that you approve you've still stuck with just this one ability instead of conceding that this would be bad for the game and a wide sweeping change would be needed for this to be effective or else it is a direct nerf to the ability.
It's not a big deal, your just proposing changes that would make the ability much worse and questionable to use when given the others available.Jadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Biting Jabs spam is no different then any other spam, be it Crushing Shock, Flame Lash, etc....its the Templar;s defining thing..i say leave it alone....
if anything they need to raise the last hit damage back up to 170%
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak2 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭Personofsecrets wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »Is this the part you come out and say, "Hey look, why doesn't this work for you DPS people? It worked to make tanking so much more fun." ...still waiting for it.
There are plenty of discussions about tanking already if that is what you want to discuss.
Please keep the discussion in this thread about Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs. Thank you
So...please explain why you'd single out one skill for this treatment.
All you've said so far is that 'it'll be more fun.' That's hardly a compelling argument.
It sounds to me more like you're trolling. Could be wrong, but I guess I won't know until you actually say something with some substance.
Its not only going to make it more fun. It will also be good for long term health of game. Players will just have to adapt.
You're restating the things that were said about blocking. It's not that clever. Why don't you go on a rant about your conspiracy theory that ZOS only plays DPS and they want to destroy healing and tanking?
(I play a Tank, a Healer and a DPS, by the way.)
Again, please stop attempting to derail the thread. It is about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
If you would like to discuss how to make those skills more fun and interactive, then please voice your opinion, but do not drag a bunch of unrelated ideas into the discussion.
So...answer my question then?
Why this one skill?0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am all for combat being more interactive and fun. I don't think rendering a skill useless would make it any more fun, however. Moreover, I find Jabs/Sweep to be wonderfully fun and satisfying. Strafing around packs of enemies and catching them all in a conal fury of laser stabs is pretty much awesome. Plus since it's a channel, one has to be aware of incoming attacks and cut it off to block. That makes it way more interactive than any block-castable skill already.
My suggested tweak would in no way make the skill useless. It would still be very good, albeit a change that people would have to adapt to, but the adjustment would encourage mixing up attacks and team play.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.2 -
Dragath✭✭✭✭
Oh, there is a lot of stuff that could be done in a better way.Personofsecrets wrote: »players press buttons while playing ESO.
this is not interactive and fun.
please remove all buttons!
seriously, if you want skills to be interactive and fun, then ZOE has to change a lot of, if not all, skills.
do you really think that will happen? really?
im sorry for you, if you do.
and lets not forget, just going to stop the regen does not make the skill more interactive and fun at all. it just implements a penalty for button pressing.
go back to the drawing board and think of something that would actually be fun and interactive.
Do you have any suggestions for ZOS to make combat more fun? I'm pretty sure that my tweak would help, but maybe the will like your feedback to =(^_^)=
everyone that does have some experience with designing (MMO)RPGs can see that. this game has quite a few clunky mechanics.
ZOE got a lot of good and bad feedback in the forum, but they dont seem to be able to understand the underlying problems in their system and design decisions.
personally, i think they just lack the experience, time and money to do whats necessary.
basically, you can suggest as much as you want, they won't get it right.
you will have to live with the fact, that this game will never be as good as it could be.
play it and have fun, but don't expect big changes in the future.
that is the reason why i dont bother to give them good advice. they did get a lot of it in the past, but they didnt make much use of it, for the reasons i stated above.
if you still believe this will change, feel free to do so.
But let me tell you, your example for biting jabs or any other skill that does work the same way, will not make the skill any more interactive or fun. if you can not see why, you also might need some more experience.
as i said, back to the drawing board. just don't give up. look at other games and how their systems work. i am sure, if you give it some time, you will easily find better solutions.
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Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »Your asking for a nerf for Templars, the single templar ability that is actually good.
It isn't a nerf to a skill so much as it is a buff to combat as a whole. People are just going to have to change their thinking about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
It's a direct nerf to the skill.
It's a direct nerf to combat. You are lowering the overall DPS of any Templar that uses that as their main DPS ability.
If you want to change combat, then make it so you lose regen while using any ability with a cast time, not just Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps.Personofsecrets wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »Your asking for a nerf for Templars, the single templar ability that is actually good.
It isn't a nerf to a skill so much as it is a buff to combat as a whole. People are just going to have to change their thinking about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
All that will do is make me have no alternative to Crushing Shock spam. And that is more fun?
Essentially relying on 1 dps skill is a flaw in the class that you can only come by through buffing some other skills or providing synergies with weapon skill lines.
I'm open to my small tweak being applied to all abilities that get used over and over. That being said, this thread is about what I feel is the worst offender of the single skill button play style, puncturing sweep and biting jabs.
Let's be honest. The adjustment that I suggest wouldn't be that bad and, besides, how do you even know it would be bad without having tested the change first?
Hopefully someone at ZOS can initiate my suggested tweak so that we can start playing that way and testing as soon as possible.
You are singling out one ability over the many that are used in the context of what your suggesting...that is why people bring up more than just this one ability in your thread. Are we not allowed to talk about this because you don't want us to? We are looking at your proposal, and if it goes through, which I sure as hell hope it doesn't, making suggestions so that it does not completely nerf one of the only good DPS abilities that Templars currently have.
Yes, the adjustment would be bad. Haha, I mean how can you honestly say that? How do you even know your suggestion would be good without having tested the change first? I can say the same thing back to you.
You are talking about either A. making regen useless for people who want to use Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps or B. making the ability not worth the slot on the ability bar.
I'd much rather have ZOS work on fixing broken abilities, bugs, and new content than giving this thought the light of day.
I have approved of every single post in the thread that suggests other skills also become more fine tuned so that they can't just be used over and over again. Please do not exaggerate by saying that I have unfairly picked one skill to change. I have verbally said that the other changes suggested in this thread are good ideas.
Content would certainly be doable with my small tweak, but players will have to make a few adjustments to their play styles. This wouldn't be a big deal at all.
I am really happy with my suggestion and stick by what I said. I think an adjustment to Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs would be good for the long term health of the game.
Except you did pick just one skill...these are your words not mine. While you've said that you approve you've still stuck with just this one ability instead of conceding that this would be bad for the game and a wide sweeping change would be needed for this to be effective or else it is a direct nerf to the ability.
It's not a big deal, your just proposing changes that would make the ability much worse and questionable to use when given the others available.
Again, Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs are the most visible skills that have the single button press play style. I'm glad a dialogue has started that shows how other skills could be adjusted for the better.
WIth the nerf to the Ravager set people had the same line of thought that because of a change the old way of playing would be rendered useless. Much to the contrary, people are still using that set just like they would still use Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs. It will just take a couple weeks of fine tuning champion and attribute points in order to get adjusted to the tweak.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.2 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »Is this the part you come out and say, "Hey look, why doesn't this work for you DPS people? It worked to make tanking so much more fun." ...still waiting for it.
There are plenty of discussions about tanking already if that is what you want to discuss.
Please keep the discussion in this thread about Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs. Thank you
So...please explain why you'd single out one skill for this treatment.
All you've said so far is that 'it'll be more fun.' That's hardly a compelling argument.
It sounds to me more like you're trolling. Could be wrong, but I guess I won't know until you actually say something with some substance.
Its not only going to make it more fun. It will also be good for long term health of game. Players will just have to adapt.
You're restating the things that were said about blocking. It's not that clever. Why don't you go on a rant about your conspiracy theory that ZOS only plays DPS and they want to destroy healing and tanking?
(I play a Tank, a Healer and a DPS, by the way.)
Again, please stop attempting to derail the thread. It is about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
If you would like to discuss how to make those skills more fun and interactive, then please voice your opinion, but do not drag a bunch of unrelated ideas into the discussion.
Except it's all related, because if this goes through it changes combat and how people tank and DPS.
You can't look at this in a vacuum.Personofsecrets wrote: »I am all for combat being more interactive and fun. I don't think rendering a skill useless would make it any more fun, however. Moreover, I find Jabs/Sweep to be wonderfully fun and satisfying. Strafing around packs of enemies and catching them all in a conal fury of laser stabs is pretty much awesome. Plus since it's a channel, one has to be aware of incoming attacks and cut it off to block. That makes it way more interactive than any block-castable skill already.
My suggested tweak would in no way make the skill useless. It would still be very good, albeit a change that people would have to adapt to, but the adjustment would encourage mixing up attacks and team play.
You completely ignored me earlier when I asked you to provide some context for how it is that currently people can just spam this one ability with nothing else and not run out of resources with nothing else.
Many of us use different attacks and do use team play, this is not just a one button "I win" ability like you make it out to be.
Currently you need shards, repentance, potions and the bonus from using synergies in Undaunted is a nice bonus to getting resources back.Jadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Oh, there is a lot of stuff that could be done in a better way.Personofsecrets wrote: »players press buttons while playing ESO.
this is not interactive and fun.
please remove all buttons!
seriously, if you want skills to be interactive and fun, then ZOE has to change a lot of, if not all, skills.
do you really think that will happen? really?
im sorry for you, if you do.
and lets not forget, just going to stop the regen does not make the skill more interactive and fun at all. it just implements a penalty for button pressing.
go back to the drawing board and think of something that would actually be fun and interactive.
Do you have any suggestions for ZOS to make combat more fun? I'm pretty sure that my tweak would help, but maybe the will like your feedback to =(^_^)=
everyone that does have some experience with designing (MMO)RPGs can see that. this game has quite a few clunky mechanics.
ZOE got a lot of good and bad feedback in the forum, but they dont seem to be able to understand the underlying problems in their system and design decisions.
personally, i think they just lack the experience, time and money to do whats necessary.
basically, you can suggest as much as you want, they won't get it right.
you will have to live with the fact, that this game will never be as good as it could be.
play it and have fun, but don't expect big changes in the future.
that is the reason why i dont bother to give them good advice. they did get a lot of it in the past, but they didnt make much use of it, for the reasons i stated above.
if you still believe this will change, feel free to do so.
But let me tell you, your example for biting jabs or any other skill that does work the same way, will not make the skill any more interactive or fun. if you can not see why, you also might need some more experience.
as i said, back to the drawing board. just don't give up. look at other games and how their systems work. i am sure, if you give it some time, you will easily find better solutions.
I agree with your general sentiments about the game development, but now we have @ZOS_RichLambert who has been doing a great job at listening to player wants and concerns. We should give him a chance.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.2 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »Is this the part you come out and say, "Hey look, why doesn't this work for you DPS people? It worked to make tanking so much more fun." ...still waiting for it.
There are plenty of discussions about tanking already if that is what you want to discuss.
Please keep the discussion in this thread about Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs. Thank you
So...please explain why you'd single out one skill for this treatment.
All you've said so far is that 'it'll be more fun.' That's hardly a compelling argument.
It sounds to me more like you're trolling. Could be wrong, but I guess I won't know until you actually say something with some substance.
Its not only going to make it more fun. It will also be good for long term health of game. Players will just have to adapt.
You're restating the things that were said about blocking. It's not that clever. Why don't you go on a rant about your conspiracy theory that ZOS only plays DPS and they want to destroy healing and tanking?
(I play a Tank, a Healer and a DPS, by the way.)
Again, please stop attempting to derail the thread. It is about Puncturing Sweeps and Biting Jabs.
If you would like to discuss how to make those skills more fun and interactive, then please voice your opinion, but do not drag a bunch of unrelated ideas into the discussion.
So...answer my question then?
Why this one skill?
You are more than welcome to make a thread discussing changes to other skills which would make the game more fun and interactive. I thank you for your input and I encourage you to follow my suggestion.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.2
