Tanking Just got real and here's why it should stay! (Reactive Armour Set / CC-Burst Build Counter)

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Reactive is ok for pvp. While u r cc ed u cant deal dmg. Ok u can when u r rooted.
Good thing is it saves your stam since u wont break free.

Since you can attack while rooted with this set....it's to OP. It should really only be CC's where you cannot attack back.

Yup, so thoughtlessly spamming your root might not be such a great idea against all players now. I am okay with that.

Exactly, people do claim that the set has to much but you should just not spam CC's. You still have to play smart.

sabresandiego_ESO · August 2015

This armor set is fantastic because it punishes players who blindly spam immobilizes and CC's. Smart players will know not to use immobilize or CC against a player wearing this set, nullifying their 5 piece set bonus. This is clearly one of the best sets in the game, just like the phoenix set. Imperial city sets are actually really good for pvp.

Gilvoth · August 2015

olsborg wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

When I saw '35%' damage reduction first, I knew this seems too much. They might reduce it a bit

They should reduce it quite abit, I mean, light of cyrodiil used to have 30% damage reduction while casting, but they lowered it to 25%. Why are these 2 sets treated so differently. *disgruntled*

thats right, and they also removed the speed buff from armor Night Mother set, and they also removed the bleed from the twin sister set. basicly this is reverse and contradictory to all the other sets that got YANKED out of position because of complaints by only a few people. why would this set be any different? YANK and Nerf please, its only fair!

hellkrasher · August 2015

Sry for my English, but...

This sets give you the ultimate defense build, but can reach decent dmg too, remember you can now put spell power in your jewelry, so you can add 3 spell pow bonuses from enchanting and 1 bonus from a jewelry set + another bonus from for example heavy torgus pieces you craft + new mundus stone + pots.

So you gain the best defense in game, but you keep decent damage and you are inmune to stuns (since u reach 100% or almost 100% mitigation, which is normaly the way to kill current normal defensive builds...).
Yeah, this can be countered by high burst builds, even by high dps builds, but what about any other type of build? they are pretty much usesells against this, and this build ill probly beat them too, since it has good sustain, crazy defense and decent dmg, while a regular balanced build wont do enough dmg, and doesnt have enough defense to survive for such a long fight.

Why allow builds that can only be countered for a SPECIFIC type of build but are really good against multiple? Dont see any good reason for this.
Pvp right now its pretty decent in terms of which builds can beat others. Highly bursty builds can be beaten by balanced ones, defensive ones and other bursting builds. Defensive builds the same, they can be beaten by all the other types, it just depends on skill, and yeah, some builds may be a little stronger than others, but this new sets creates a new meta of super defensive ppl which can do decent dmg and have sustain.

Fun for u, not fun for others. I get ppl like to be able to survive using the lowest amount of skill or ability, but come on. I say you guys L2P, use the normal defensive builds, they are quite good if u know what to do, theres no need for this one. Im sry if you are not able to survive long enough, is not that is not posible, you need skill to do it. Giving you this type of defense with no skill requiered... yeah i dont think so.

timidobserver · August 2015

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

When I saw '35%' damage reduction first, I knew this seems too much. They might reduce it a bit

They should reduce it quite abit, I mean, light of cyrodiil used to have 30% damage reduction while casting, but they lowered it to 25%. Why are these 2 sets treated so differently. *disgruntled*

thats right, and they also removed the speed buff from armor Night Mother set, and they also removed the bleed from the twin sister set. basicly this is reverse and contradictory to all the other sets that got YANKED out of position because of complaints by only a few people. why would this set be any different? YANK and Nerf please, its only fair!

You are right. I expect that the nightblade players to build their entire strategy around fearing you every time your immunity goes down and the DK players that build their entire strategy around keeping you talons 100% of the time are going to complain until this gets nerfed.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

@hellkrasher You need to have the rock, paper, scissor's element in the game. Right now most build's relie on just burst and CC. Even with this build a lot of your abilities are still built toward's sustain and tanking.

Your saying there is no place for new build's that counter build's (over populated build's) ?

This is a breathe of fresh air. This build still require's skill. You could say the same for sheild spamming Sorc's or Snipe spamming Nb's. No skill there either.

You only have the ultimate defence when your using "ultimate's". Who would of thought defensive ult's would be the ultimate defence.

hellkrasher · August 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@hellkrasher You need to have the rock, paper, scissor's element in the game. Right now most build's relie on just burst and CC. Even with this build a lot of your abilities are still built toward's sustain and tanking.

Your saying there is no place for new build's that counter build's (over populated build's) ?

This is a breathe of fresh air. This build still require's skill. You could say the same for sheild spamming Sorc's or Snipe spamming Nb's. No skill there either.

You only have the ultimate defence when your using "ultimate's". Who would of thought defensive ult's would be the ultimate defence.

Dont agree just 15min ego we were pvping against a stam NB with this set... almost INMORTAL, i mean, vigor+stealth+fear plus complete inmunity when CCed. And btw, he was doing 5k surprise attacks, spaming it, so no buffs, just simple spam.

I consider myself a good pvper (i only lost 1 duel and was when the Stamina builds got super buffed), and the other folks in the pts most of them seems very competent.

A good player with this set is exactly what i said, an almost immortal guy running around doing more dmg than what i expected... 5k spameable insta cast skills with this build? This ill become meta, in fact in the PTS already IS.

I was against this set because i kinda knew what could happen in hands of good players, and its even worst than i thought, this set with NB is ridiculous and most prbly good stamina templars ill rock it too.

And yeah, you love it and you want it so ok, you ill find 100000 excuses. When you see half of the pts using this set... you ill realize this is not fine, and now with sharpened fixed... boom.

But ok, everyone wants the 1 kill button, so bring it.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

@hellkrasher it's currently broken right now though. The cryodil de-buff is not working the way its suppose to with this set.

If your trying to burst him after you cc, you will not win period. You consider your self a good player and your probably using a Cc-Burst build. Many build's will have to change their rotation's to counter this. Tanking will become more viable with this set but right now it is broken. It's pts, nothing is final.

Stamina nb's were always powerful. Now they have this set instead of roll spam like in live.

I'm not trying to make up 1 Million excuses. I am trying to keep the set the way it is and fix what is broken about it.

hellkrasher · August 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@hellkrasher it's currently broken right now though. The cryodil de-buff is not working the way its suppose to with this set.

If your trying to burst him after you cc, you will not win period. You consider your self a good player and your probably using a Cc-Burst build. Many build's will have to change their rotation's to counter this. Tanking will become more viable with this set but right now it is broken. It's pts, nothing is final.

Stamina nb's were always powerful. Now they have this set instead of roll spam like in live.

I'm not trying to make up 1 Million excuses. I am trying to keep the set the way it is and fix what is broken about it.

Funny in fact im using a DK with a balanced build. I do good dmg yes, burst? Lol no that much. Its broken? Dont say, my crushing shock when someone stunned him was doing 3x200 and i have 20% fire dmg + 2500 SpellPow (from Mages guild buff that i have 100% active).

Also i dont know if its that broken, as many in this place has stated, when cced this ppl pbly has 80% mitigation anyway, thats to much, period. This kind of extreme mitigation should bring a high counterpart, something like reduce your dmg while you have this equipped or similar. You want really have survivability? Cool, but you cant have survivability and more than decent dmg. With mundus stones, wep dmg in jewelry and other sets you can get really high dmg even using 5 pieces of heavy. They can use heavy attacks and whatever they want to sustain cos you cant paralize them or CCed them or any type of controll, so they are basicly free to do whatever they want.

And btw, i wasnt using stuns or other CCs. I did the first 5 seconds, then quickly realize i wasn't doing any dmg and pretty much knew he was using this set.

Imo, the mitigation should be lowered, its not balanced that someone with 5 heavy pieces can get that much mitigation sacrificing so little. Also, this effect shouldn't work with soft cc like paralyze.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

@hellkrasher I agree , any CC which allow's you to still do damage should not be possible with this set.

Don't worry though, the mitigation is broken because of the cyro de-buff. Also soft cc's included, it will get fixed up. Pts will alway's have crap like this. Heavy armour damage mitigation is being added with the cyro de-buff as well.

I think this set will be fine in the future.
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ALL damage mitigation is broken right now. Mist Form / etc.

Artis · August 2015

I don't understand your math.

Let's assume you take X damage with no mitigation other than your armor. Using bolstering darkness you take (1-0.6)X=0.4X damage, 40% because 60% is mitigated.
Now when you are CCed while inside bolstering darkness you will take 35% less damage => you will take 65% of damage that you would take if you weren't CCed.

That means you take 0.65*0.4*X=0.26*X => you take 26% of damage. It is huge mitigation for sure, but you can only take 0 damage if you... take zero damage. 0.26*X=0 only if X=0.

Can you or whoever commented with "great theorycrafting job" explain how it works? Because my math doesn't give me 0 damage (100% mitigation) in the end.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

@Artemis The cyrodil de-buff may be the problem altogether or just how the value's are being totaled up.

Is it possible to get hit by 0 damage. I've seen it.

Now i believe the damage mitigation is additive to do so. You should not be able to hit 0's if mitigation was multiplying.

If you add the mitigation you can easily get 100%. Which has been proven since you don't take any damage with mist form active alone (cryodil debuff 50% + mist form 75% = 125%)
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If damage was to change and multiply, i'm not sure how the order would be totaled up either. Highest to lowest? What ever is applied first? It should be multiplying but it dosen't seem that way.

Artis · August 2015

There's no way to prove that's how it works. What if there's some different formula, maybe a typo somewhere lol.
125%? what if it is 113% or 200%, we will never know

Hopefully ZOS will look into it.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

Artemis wrote: »

There's no way to prove that's how it works. What if there's some different formula, maybe a typo somewhere lol.
125%? what if it is 113% or 200%, we will never know Hopefully ZOS will look into it.

Yeah, i would defiantly like to know if damage mitigation is working as intended.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Help us!