Dual Wield & Major Brutality - The Big Issue

DDuke · August 2015

Hello.
After playing several days on the PTS, this is how I see the changes to Hidden Blade and inclusion of Major Brutality buff to Dual Wield.

First off, let me pose you all a question: when you want to play a stealthy assassin in a game, what is the first weapon combination that comes to your mind?

Now, I can already tell the answer is likely going to be "Dual Wield" or "Bow/Crossbow".

And this is where we're going to have a problem, if things don't change.

Currently, to play a stealthy assassin in ESO, your best bet is going to be playing a character wielding big cumbersome two-handed sword (atleast on one bar).

Why is this? Because outside of sorcerers' Surge ability & weapon damage potion (not a viable option for most players), your only source for Major Brutality to boost your stealth damage is going to be Rally.

Giving Flying Blade Major Brutality is cool, but ultimately it does not enable the stealthy "assassin" archetype since it does nothing to promote using stealth as part of your playstyle.

If you want stealth damage - equip a 2H weapon, or spend hundreds of thousands of gold in potions (which also means you wont be able to use other types of potions). Or well, be a sorcerer (that's right, sorcerer>dual wielding nightblade for sneak attacks *grumble*).

Now, to not make this a rant and in order to provide some constructive feedback, here are some ideas on how this issue could be fixed:

Option One: Make Hidden Blade grant Major Brutality passively, as long as it is on your bar (similar to Magelight/Expert Hunter crit bonuses). Now, this comes with an obvious issue: you need to slot it on both bars (if you plan on using both), and if you're using Bow on second bar for instance you'll be SOL.
Option Two: Give Major Brutality to the only self buff skill on Dual Wield tree - Blade Cloak. This skill however pops you out of stealth any time it is being used (unlike Rally for instance), which is an issue that should be fixed first.
Option Three: Make Flying Blade restealth you after impact on opponent, you can nerf the damage to compensate. This could be very interesting, but also very OP so it probably isn't the best option.
Option Four: Nerf Rally and make it reveal you when cast while sneaking or in cloak. Now, no one likes nerfs so this should be the last option to even consider.

Also, I'd be remiss not to mention that I really enjoy the concept of the new Hidden Blade morph that makes the blade bounce to nearby enemies.

Thanks for reading, if anyone has feedback/comments to add, please do

dday3six · August 2015

I thought of a 5th option to consider. Make it work similarly to Shadow Image. When the Buff isn't active pressing it applies the Buff, and pressing it while the Buff is active would throw the knife.

Wing · August 2015

why not just add it to blade cloak?

DovresMalven · August 2015

completely agree with OP - please give major brutality to blade cloak!!!

Xeniph · August 2015

That's just one of the issues.

DW has nothing on 2h when it comes to stealth play. The heavy and light attacks are much, much less on the stealth opener even with the increase of weapon damage. While I prefer the look of DW, it just can't compete with 2h when going for burst.
The only situation that DW does compete is if the player never uses light/heavies or slots only class abilities. Which would be self gimping yourself.

I suppose you could argue the AOE and ranged abilities are competitive, which they are when not relying on stealth. But again that hits on your first point.

I think the easiest solution would be to allow the ability to be cast with/without a target. Casting without a target would buff you and subsequent casts with a target would refresh the buff.

DDuke · August 2015

Xeniph wrote: »

That's just one of the issues.

DW has nothing on 2h when it comes to stealth play. The heavy and light attacks are much, much less on the stealth opener even with the increase of weapon damage. While I prefer the look of DW, it just can't compete with 2h when going for burst.
The only situation that DW does compete is if the player never uses light/heavies or slots only class abilities. Which would be self gimping yourself.

Really? I've always thought that's one thing Dual Wield does better (burst) as long as you pop a potion for Major Brutality (or have 2H on 2nd bar and use Rally).

I'm critting 20k+ from stealth with Dual Wield heavies on my NB, though I confess I haven't tested 2H ones yet.

Xael · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Hello.
After playing several days on the PTS, this is how I see the changes to Hidden Blade and inclusion of Major Brutality buff to Dual Wield.

First off, let me pose you all a question: when you want to play a stealthy assassin in a game, what is the first weapon combination that comes to your mind?

Now, I can already tell the answer is likely going to be "Dual Wield" or "Bow/Crossbow".

And this is where we're going to have a problem, if things don't change.

Currently, to play a stealthy assassin in ESO, your best bet is going to be playing a character wielding big cumbersome two-handed sword (atleast on one bar).

Why is this? Because outside of sorcerers' Surge ability & weapon damage potion (not a viable option for most players), your only source for Major Brutality to boost your stealth damage is going to be Rally.

Giving Flying Blade Major Brutality is cool, but ultimately it does not enable the stealthy "assassin" archetype since it does nothing to promote using stealth as part of your playstyle.

If you want stealth damage - equip a 2H weapon, or spend hundreds of thousands of gold in potions (which also means you wont be able to use other types of potions). Or well, be a sorcerer (that's right, sorcerer>dual wielding nightblade for sneak attacks *grumble*).

Now, to not make this a rant and in order to provide some constructive feedback, here are some ideas on how this issue could be fixed:
Option One: Make Hidden Blade grant Major Brutality passively, as long as it is on your bar (similar to Magelight/Expert Hunter crit bonuses). Now, this comes with an obvious issue: you need to slot it on both bars (if you plan on using both), and if you're using Bow on second bar for instance you'll be SOL.

Option Two: Give Major Brutality to the only self buff skill on Dual Wield tree - Blade Cloak. This skill however pops you out of stealth any time it is being used (unlike Rally for instance), which is an issue that should be fixed first.

Option Three: Make Flying Blade restealth you after impact on opponent, you can nerf the damage to compensate. This could be very interesting, but also very OP so it probably isn't the best option.

Option Four: Nerf Rally and make it reveal you when cast while sneaking or in cloak. Now, no one likes nerfs so this should be the last option to even consider.

Also, I'd be remiss not to mention that I really enjoy the concept of the new Hidden Blade morph that makes the blade bounce to nearby enemies.

Thanks for reading, if anyone has feedback/comments to add, please do

Normally I agree with your posts but I can't get behind this.

First of all, a players idea of what a "rogue" should or shouldn't be is neither here nor there.
Second, up until recently you had no problem showcasing yourself as a viable dw nightblade in PvP videos. I don't see how this addition changes anything.

Your list:

1. Out of your 4 options, this one is the better. Provided we are limited to your 4 options...
2. Having to slot Blade Cloak for a damage buff is silly, more importantly if it breaks stealth. Moreover it's still not as good as Rally as Rally provides an excellent heal that lasts over 20 seconds. Also Blade Cloak already functions as a movement buff for DKs and Templars who lack mobility. So you are saying either remove this movement speed or stack a damage buff on top of it? Nightblades already use Double Take which is almost mandatory now in melee combat, having 2 buffs like this is redundant.
3. This is problematic. First of all, having an attack that allows you to restealth is just crazy. You would have to obviously only allow it once and then somehow readjust combat (for this one ability) to deal with misses or anything else that can go wrong. Secondly Flying Blade damage has already been nerfed and it's currently the backbone of Dual Wield damage (non class). No thanks.
4. Hell no. Rally is good as it is, it even costs more this update and is less effective. This option should not even be considered. The fact you suggest a possible nerf to a different skill line is the same vein of whining certain Sorcerers were doing to Nightblades when Bolt Escape got nerfed. You of all people should remember and relate to the "nerf cloak, Bolt got nerfed, it's unfair" crap.

A lot of nightblades will still use 2h for double heals. Rally is just good and it's the only option outside of Vigor a lot of stamina templates have to heal. I understand you would probably love to be DW/Bow and still have your Major Brutality buff. But let's be fair, what about 1hS? Where is their buff? What about Bow? Why doesn't bow get one? In fact I would love to make a bow/bow build of some sorts, but that is currently impossible for 2 reasons, reflect, and no Major Brut.

While I personally don't like having an opener that doesn't have the Major Brut buff already active, there are better solutions than nerfing something unrelated.

Here is an option:

1. Have the buff effect the first attack and start a timer after impact. I am pretty sure Focused Aim (snipe) does this with the Armor debuff. In other words the Snipe doesn't just apply it, it factors it into the actual attack as well.

I just don't forsee a way to have a buff similar to Rally under the DW tree without a complete overhaul of one of the skills. To be quite honest I will be reticent to add another DW ability to my bar just for the sake of a buff that lacks a heal. That's what makes Rally appealing, the heal. More importantly I think 1hS and Bow need a way to provide Major Brutality. It's bad enough Magelight no longer gives the Empower proc.

Domander · August 2015

Where's the spellpower buff that I can get for free before an attack from stealth?

Oh, I have to use a potion to get it? Or be a sorc?

Could we get that before giving stamina another one, plus sneak attack bonus?

Or maybe this = have cake, eat too

DDuke · August 2015

Xael wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Hello.
After playing several days on the PTS, this is how I see the changes to Hidden Blade and inclusion of Major Brutality buff to Dual Wield.

First off, let me pose you all a question: when you want to play a stealthy assassin in a game, what is the first weapon combination that comes to your mind?

Now, I can already tell the answer is likely going to be "Dual Wield" or "Bow/Crossbow".

And this is where we're going to have a problem, if things don't change.

Currently, to play a stealthy assassin in ESO, your best bet is going to be playing a character wielding big cumbersome two-handed sword (atleast on one bar).

Why is this? Because outside of sorcerers' Surge ability & weapon damage potion (not a viable option for most players), your only source for Major Brutality to boost your stealth damage is going to be Rally.

Giving Flying Blade Major Brutality is cool, but ultimately it does not enable the stealthy "assassin" archetype since it does nothing to promote using stealth as part of your playstyle.

If you want stealth damage - equip a 2H weapon, or spend hundreds of thousands of gold in potions (which also means you wont be able to use other types of potions). Or well, be a sorcerer (that's right, sorcerer>dual wielding nightblade for sneak attacks *grumble*).

Now, to not make this a rant and in order to provide some constructive feedback, here are some ideas on how this issue could be fixed:
Option One: Make Hidden Blade grant Major Brutality passively, as long as it is on your bar (similar to Magelight/Expert Hunter crit bonuses). Now, this comes with an obvious issue: you need to slot it on both bars (if you plan on using both), and if you're using Bow on second bar for instance you'll be SOL.

Option Two: Give Major Brutality to the only self buff skill on Dual Wield tree - Blade Cloak. This skill however pops you out of stealth any time it is being used (unlike Rally for instance), which is an issue that should be fixed first.

Option Three: Make Flying Blade restealth you after impact on opponent, you can nerf the damage to compensate. This could be very interesting, but also very OP so it probably isn't the best option.

Option Four: Nerf Rally and make it reveal you when cast while sneaking or in cloak. Now, no one likes nerfs so this should be the last option to even consider.

Also, I'd be remiss not to mention that I really enjoy the concept of the new Hidden Blade morph that makes the blade bounce to nearby enemies.

Thanks for reading, if anyone has feedback/comments to add, please do

Normally I agree with your posts but I can't get behind this.

First of all, just because it does live up to your standard of what you think a "rogue" should be is neither here nor there.
Second, up until recently you sure had no problem showcasing yourself as a viable dw nightblade in PvP videos. I don't see how this addition changes anything.

I don't have a problem on live playing as DW/DW or DW/Bow because I chug potions like crazy

Now, I've had many people interested in my build, but unable to play it due to the high "maintenance cost".

I have already tested a DW/DW setup on PTS and it works fine, but the problem is you still have to keep chugging these potions and the change to Hidden Blade, while probably well-meant, doesn't alleviate this problem at all and ends up useless.

Also, in a meta where TTK is much much higher, not having a detection potion or tri-pot available can mean a big deal.

Xael wrote: »

Your list:
1. Out of your 4 options, this one is the better. Provided we are limited to your 4 options...

Of course we are not limited to these options, they're just my random thoughts

Xael wrote: »

2. Having to slot Blade Cloak for a damage buff is silly, more importantly if it breaks stealth. Moreover it's still not as good as Rally as Rally provides an excellent heal that lasts over 20 seconds. Also Blade Cloak already functions as a movement buff for DKs and Templars who lack mobility. So you are saying either remove this movement speed or stack a damage buff on top of it? Nightblades already use Double Take which is almost mandatory now in melee combat, having 2 buffs like this is redundant.

I think having to slot rally for damage buff is silly as well, and because it isn't as strong as Rally, isn't that a perfect reason to buff it? And yes, I think giving it Major Brutality on top of the short Major Expedition buff is perfectly fine and would bring it in line with Rally (more or less).

If you want to run it with Double Take, you can morph it to Deadly Cloak instead (no movement speed, but a toggle that throws a dagger).

When I first heard about this skill before 1.6, I wanted to run it with this morph.
Deadly Cloak while sneaking, throw the toggle dagger and ambush into melee was the plan, but it ultimately didn't work because:
1. It breaks stealth if used while sneaking or cloaked.
2. It gains no stealth dmg modifier either if you somehow manage to restealth.
3. DPS is much slower than Flying Blade (you have to hit the skill button twice to throw one dagger).

I'm currently using Mirage morph of Blur on my NB btw, but mostly because I have that Panacea of Speed (and weapon damage) up 24/7.

Xael wrote: »

3. This is problematic. First of all, having an attack that allows you to restealth is just crazy. You would have to obviously only allow it once and then somehow readjust combat (for this one ability) to deal with misses or anything else that can go wrong. Secondly Flying Blade damage has already been nerfed and it's currently the backbone of Dual Wield damage (non class). No thanks.

Good points. I also don't think Flying Blade is a skill you'd want to do something like this with.

However, I'm not completely opposed to them adding skills that synergize with stealth in the future, even ones that deal damage but don't break it (obviously damage would have to be low).

Just wanted to throw this out as an option

Xael wrote: »

4. Hell no. Rally is good as it is, it even costs more this update and is less effective. This option should not even be considered. The fact you suggest a possible nerf to a different skill line is the same vein of whining certain Sorcerers were doing to Nightblades when Bolt Escape got nerfed. You of all people should remember and relate to the "nerf cloak, Bolt got nerfed, it's unfair" crap.

A lot of nightblades will still use 2h for double heals. Rally is just good and it's the only option outside of Vigor a lot of stamina templates have to heal. I understand you would probably love to be DW/Bow and still have your Major Brutality buff. But let's be fair, what about 1hS? Where is their buff? What about Bow? Why doesn't bow get one? In fact I would love to make a bow/bow build of some sorts, but that is currently impossible for 2 reasons, reflect, and no Major Brut.

Yes, I think Rally is fine as it is, and for the exact reason I'd like to see Dual Wield get some similar love.
There are too many people currently out there who feel obligated to use 2H.

I would also like to see a bow having access to this buff (or perhaps a different one, such as Major Focus), but I'm not so sure about 1HS. 1HS does not really "require" this buff, since you aren't focused on damage.

Xael wrote: »

While I personally don't like having an opener that doesn't have the Major Brut buff already active, there are better solutions than nerfing something unrelated.

Here is an option:
1. Have the buff effect the first attack and start a timer after impact. I am pretty sure Focused Aim (snipe) does this with the Armor debuff. In other words the Snipe doesn't just apply it, it factors it into the actual attack as well.

I just don't forsee a way to have a buff similar to Rally under the DW tree without a complete overhaul of one of the skills. To be quite honest I will be reticent to add another DW ability to my bar just for the sake of a buff that lacks a heal. That's what makes Rally appealing, the heal. More importantly I think 1hS and Bow need a way to provide Major Brutality. It's bad enough Magelight no longer gives the Empower proc.

What you have proposed sure would be better than nothing, though it wouldn't allow you to sneak up to enemies & hit them with Major Brutality up (like 2H does), which is the main problem.

Wearing a big heavy 2H weapon rewards you more for stealth gameplay than trying to play a dual wielding assassin/rogue, stabbing people to death.

DDuke · August 2015

Domander wrote: »

Where's the spellpower buff that I can get for free before an attack from stealth?

Oh, I have to use a potion to get it? Or be a sorc?

Could we get that before giving stamina another one, plus sneak attack bonus?

Or maybe this = have cake, eat too

If you want to get Major Sorcery on that fire staff heavy or meteor you shoot from sneak, you can actually do that (and get Empower as well) by block canceling the skill you just casted & casting Degeneration/Entropy.
Due to differences on travel times, your Entropy should arrive first and grant you Major Sorcery (and Empower).

That said, magicka NBs & DKs who want Major Sorcery before their sneak whip/concealed weapon are SOL. Unfortunate, but not the end of the world.

You can cast Entropy/Degeneration first and then hit them with whip/concealed, it makes no difference due to lack of sneak dmg modifier (though NB will probably want to cloak before concealed for the stun).

To be honest, I think it's fine that way.

Not having sneak attack modifier is one of the defining features that separate stamina & magicka builds, creating diversity.

That said, you could make the same argument about 2H:

"2H having Major Brutality makes it different than DW"

The problem here is that you're rewarding people wearing big heavy 2H weapons with the best stealth dmg potential, rather than the more archetypical dual wielding rogue/assassin characters present in almost every (MMO)RPG.

Jar_Ek · August 2015

I have 4 possibles to add into the mix:

1. Remove Rally from 2-handed weapons and give it to the fighters guild so that everyone has access to it. Potentially you could replace Trap Beast (which is probably the least used fighters guild ability). This would allow 2-handers to then have a new skill - such as a 360 AoE.

2. Add major brutality to Blade cloak. Remove the AoE damage mitigation from blade cloak and replace with a minor protection buff (8%). Improve the tick rate of the DoT (once per 3s is dreadful). Keep the mobility morph, change the thrown blade morph to a gap closer with the same damage.

3. Remove blade cloak. Replace with "Parry and Riposte" - which provides a major brutality buff, and a minor protection buff and minor dodge buff. Morphs could be "Flashing Blade" which would provide a speed buff and "Acrobatic Riposte" would would be a gap closer with a minor root that ends the "Parry and Riposte" but provides an Empower buff for the next skill use.

4. Rework the entire line:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/168267/can-dual-wield-be-made-to-work#latest

Xael · August 2015

Honestly I really don't care what happens to dual wield. However anything that happens to dual wield should have no bearing whatsoever on 2h or Rally. Leave Rally out of the construct please. It's in a good spot, it's fine, leave it alone

If you want stuff to be as good, buff other stuff, don't nerf/change perfectly fine abilities.

Farorin · August 2015

Yeah, I am pretty sure I am going to give up DW until they fix it properly, flying dagger or whatever it is called is useless to me as I use DW and bow, so why would I take up a skill slot on a ranged ability, when I have a whole bar dedicated to that?

Sadly, in order to be competitive, I think I will start using 2h again. I just hope they get their balances together so I can actually play the stealthy thief type like I wanted to.

Xeniph · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

That's just one of the issues.

DW has nothing on 2h when it comes to stealth play. The heavy and light attacks are much, much less on the stealth opener even with the increase of weapon damage. While I prefer the look of DW, it just can't compete with 2h when going for burst.
The only situation that DW does compete is if the player never uses light/heavies or slots only class abilities. Which would be self gimping yourself.

Really? I've always thought that's one thing Dual Wield does better (burst) as long as you pop a potion for Major Brutality (or have 2H on 2nd bar and use Rally).

I'm critting 20k+ from stealth with Dual Wield heavies on my NB, though I confess I haven't tested 2H ones yet.

Yup, I assume you are talking pve on the pts. In pve with 4k weapon damage I get 27k with DW Maces and 37.6k with a maul ( The crappy infused Agility ones they gave us) All other weapon types range 1-2k below that (sword/dagger/axe)

For pvp I have yet to test DW in 1.7 but the same maul will get you a 8-10k heavy attack. I will admit I am going to miss my 20k heavy attacks from stealth when this goes live.

Edit- In case you were referring to live, I don't recall the numbers I get in pve.

DDuke · August 2015

Xeniph wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

That's just one of the issues.

DW has nothing on 2h when it comes to stealth play. The heavy and light attacks are much, much less on the stealth opener even with the increase of weapon damage. While I prefer the look of DW, it just can't compete with 2h when going for burst.
The only situation that DW does compete is if the player never uses light/heavies or slots only class abilities. Which would be self gimping yourself.

Really? I've always thought that's one thing Dual Wield does better (burst) as long as you pop a potion for Major Brutality (or have 2H on 2nd bar and use Rally).

I'm critting 20k+ from stealth with Dual Wield heavies on my NB, though I confess I haven't tested 2H ones yet.

Yup, I assume you are talking pve on the pts. In pve with 4k weapon damage I get 27k with DW Maces and 37.6k with a maul ( The crappy infused Agility ones they gave us) All other weapon types range 1-2k below that (sword/dagger/axe)

For pvp I have yet to test DW in 1.7 but the same maul will get you a 8-10k heavy attack. I will admit I am going to miss my 20k heavy attacks from stealth when this goes live.

Edit- In case you were referring to live, I don't recall the numbers I get in pve.

No, those are actually my PvP numbers on Live :P

Heavy Attack+Surprise Attack from sneak is one of the strongest openers you can get, but I'm really surprised if 2H actually deals more damage with that.

It's usually two hits with fully charged heavy when using DW, first hit does some 15-16k dmg and second one 4-5k.

I've tested sneak attacks on PTS, but haven't really paid attention to the numbers since I'm bugged most of the time (stuck with 1k more weapon dmg than what I should have).

Xeniph · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

That's just one of the issues.

DW has nothing on 2h when it comes to stealth play. The heavy and light attacks are much, much less on the stealth opener even with the increase of weapon damage. While I prefer the look of DW, it just can't compete with 2h when going for burst.
The only situation that DW does compete is if the player never uses light/heavies or slots only class abilities. Which would be self gimping yourself.

Really? I've always thought that's one thing Dual Wield does better (burst) as long as you pop a potion for Major Brutality (or have 2H on 2nd bar and use Rally).

I'm critting 20k+ from stealth with Dual Wield heavies on my NB, though I confess I haven't tested 2H ones yet.

Yup, I assume you are talking pve on the pts. In pve with 4k weapon damage I get 27k with DW Maces and 37.6k with a maul ( The crappy infused Agility ones they gave us) All other weapon types range 1-2k below that (sword/dagger/axe)

For pvp I have yet to test DW in 1.7 but the same maul will get you a 8-10k heavy attack. I will admit I am going to miss my 20k heavy attacks from stealth when this goes live.

Edit- In case you were referring to live, I don't recall the numbers I get in pve.

No, those are actually my PvP numbers on Live :P

Heavy Attack+Surprise Attack from sneak is one of the strongest openers you can get, but I'm really surprised if 2H actually deals more damage with that.

It's usually two hits with fully charged heavy when using DW, first hit does some 15-16k dmg and second one 4-5k.

I've tested sneak attacks on PTS, but haven't really paid attention to the numbers since I'm bugged most of the time (stuck with 1k more weapon dmg than what I should have).

Oh, I was strictly speaking numbers in the current pts.

On live my heavies range in the 18-21k animation canceled 8-9k SA. I really wish it's wasn't more damage than DW. Since I would prefer to run that. Sadly the passives are too damn good in 2h for burst.

As I said, I will greatly miss 1.6

jebuspowers · August 2015

Sap essence also gives major brutality. Or as a Nightblade just use shadowy disguise for guaranteed crit then use whatever attack, then sap, then go crazy

Xeniph · August 2015

jebuspowers wrote: »

Sap essence also gives major brutality. Or as a Nightblade just use shadowy disguise for guaranteed crit then use whatever attack, then sap, then go crazy

Yes, but you can't pre-buff with Sap, and requires you to hit a target. Completely defeating the OP's point I believe.

KellionBane · August 2015

Xeniph wrote: »

jebuspowers wrote: »

Sap essence also gives major brutality. Or as a Nightblade just use shadowy disguise for guaranteed crit then use whatever attack, then sap, then go crazy

Yes, but you can't pre-buff with Sap, and requires you to hit a target. Completely defeating the OP's point I believe.

You might want to test that... FTC is reporting a buff on my character regardless if I hit anyone with Sap Essence. I have no clue how to check that buff though (the game is pretty *** at reporting statistical information to the player /sigh ).

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

You could just remove Major Brutality from Momentum and call it a day. Give it a resistance buff instead. Now you are not forced to use Rally just for Major Brutality and can use Vigor instead.

Revert the change's to flying blade also.

Jeckll · August 2015

KellionBane wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

jebuspowers wrote: »

Sap essence also gives major brutality. Or as a Nightblade just use shadowy disguise for guaranteed crit then use whatever attack, then sap, then go crazy

Yes, but you can't pre-buff with Sap, and requires you to hit a target. Completely defeating the OP's point I believe.

You might want to test that... FTC is reporting a buff on my character regardless if I hit anyone with Sap Essence. I have no clue how to check that buff though (the game is pretty *** at reporting statistical information to the player /sigh ).

He doesnt have to. You dont get the Major Brutality or Major Sorcery with Sap Essence without hiting a target. FTC reports a buff because the API doesnt tell FTC (yet) that there is a buff going on. All FTC does is start a conter whenever you press the button of the skill.

To the topic: While it would be nice to have Major Brutality up for the initial hit, it only affects one (!) hit in the entire fight, in one specific playstyle, on 1 specific Weapon Set. How I understood it, ZOS wants to drive away from ganky 1shot builds and those 1shot builds are the only builds that focus heavily on the initial hit. If fights some day will really take half a minute or longer, the impact of the opener will greatly diminish.

It's a VERY small issue in my book compared to the other issues that plague Update 7. You can probably still open with Snipe, swap, Flying Blade and the Major Brutality buff is applied before the Snipe hits.

Heavy Attack - Flying Blade opener does also pretty solid damage while I grant you that Heavy Attack - Surprise Attack gives you more. But it's still almost unrecoverable damage if you dont burst everything into a shield.

TL;DR: issue doesnt affect a lot of players, does only affect the opener which is supposed to mean way less in Update 7 anyways and can be played around with potions. How about finding a solution that enables me to use 1h/shield / bow and grants me access to Major Brutality as well?