Deeply disappointed with the changes to key skills in the destruction line

Armitas · August 2015

Prior to 1.7 impulse and force shock had a 40% chance to apply secondary effects. This allowed for a combo using impulse twice to apply burning on all the mobs then switch to force pulse which then ping pongs across all the burning enemies and becomes an aoe itself. Once I started using force pulse after the crushing shock nerf I thought it was great combo, ESO finally has some real combo moves, I no longer have to spam impulse over and over and over again. But...now you just removed that combo by taking the burning chance from impulse and force pulse that allowed Force pulse to effectively become an AOE. Why? Why destroy this really great combo and turn everything back into just spamming one skill over and over? This is a loss to the Destruction line not a gain. Please reconsider this change. Return the secondary effect chance to impulse and force shock and save one of the few combo moves in the game.

F7sus4 · August 2015

This is really bad info for Sorcerers.

Mojmir · August 2015

Nerf grinding maybe? And the main aoe of most dps magicka builds? Zos would never: p

Dracane · August 2015

Indeed. The main problem here, is that 1 destruction staff abilitiy is now 100% useless.

Force Pulse, Morph of Force Shock. The AoE effect won't trigger anymore. I made a few threads about it. Since Force Shock doesn't trigger elemental effects anymore .It MIGHT trigger them in theory, but I didn't get 1 single elemental effect by spamming 100 times force pulse against an enemy in a test. Which equals never in my book.
Force Pulse became even more useless compare to crushing shock than it already was.

I see why they wanted to make global rules for elemental proc chances. But abilities that highly rely on them, such as Force pulse, are dead now. Btw, the patchnotes say '20% chance for elemental effects to proc' 20% is still an existing chance, though elemental effect never proc for me when using force shock.

OtarTheMad · August 2015

The destruction staff line is indeed getting a little under powered and nerfed for no reason. They already made Unstable Wall almost useless (Haven't tested if that has changed honestly)

We'll have to wait and see how ZOS changes things moving forward, a lot can happen to abilities while an update is in PTS.

Sacadon · August 2015

Anyone test whether wall of elements will proc force pulse?

Dracane · August 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

Anyone test whether wall of elements will proc force pulse?

Force Pulse can proc, if an enemy is burning, shocked or chilled.
Provided Wall of elements can proc one of these, it might proc it, as long as 2 enemies have elemental effects on them.
I doubt Wall of Elements will proc any. But I can go test that now on pts for you.

Dracane · August 2015

Look how non existing the chance is. It is there, but not noticeable. Especially since 1 elemental effect only lasts for a few seconds. Very dissapointing, there is no 20% chance to proc elmental effects. It's more like 0,20%

Burning procced only 1 time in 141 wall procs. The tooltip says 3, because the burning effect ticks for fire damage 3 times.
Only 4 shock effect procs in 259 wall ticks

Armitas · August 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

Anyone test whether wall of elements will proc force pulse?

Area of effect damage over time abilities have a 1% chance to proc secondary effects like burning. So effectively the answer is no. Apparently secondary effects are the warlock rings of 1.7 with the exception of weapon glyph which from what I heard may not be working at 20%.

Secondary effects have their own chance to proc third effects, so I wonder just how unlikely it is to proc those third effects now.

Joy_Division · August 2015

Just the tip of the iceberg:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202512/observations-on-destruction-staffs-some-bugs-and-where-we-have-come-since-1-6#latest

Forestd16b14_ESO · August 2015

The destruction line isn't getting nerfed just fire staffs incase you missed it Frost staffs are getting buffed to give damage shields on completed heavy attacks while wall of frost has gain a immoveable effect when enemies step into it while shock staff deals more splash damage to more enemies up to 6 now while shock touch can stun enemies now.

So it's just fire staffs that got nerf not the entire weapon system so it doesn't mean the end of the weapon just impulse spammer like you cause there are no combos when it came to impulse just spam.

Dracane · August 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

The destruction line isn't getting nerfed just fire staffs incase you missed it Frost staffs are getting buffed to give damage shields on completed heavy attacks while wall of frost has gain a immoveable effect when enemies step into it while shock staff deals more splash damage to more enemies up to 6 now while shock touch can stun enemies now.

So it's just fire staffs that got nerf not the entire weapon system so it doesn't mean the end of the weapon just impulse spammer like you cause there are no combos when it came to impulse just spam.

Of course. Elemental effects were a big selling point of destruction staff spells. Now that they practically don't occure anymore, destruction staff is much less effective.

Armitas · August 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

The destruction line isn't getting nerfed just fire staffs incase you missed it Frost staffs are getting buffed to give damage shields on completed heavy attacks while wall of frost has gain a immoveable effect when enemies step into it while shock staff deals more splash damage to more enemies up to 6 now while shock touch can stun enemies now.

So it's just fire staffs that got nerf not the entire weapon system so it doesn't mean the end of the weapon just impulse spammer like you cause there are no combos when it came to impulse just spam.

On live Impulse and Force shock have a special 40% chance to apply secondary effects. Current to 1.7 the special chance for these skills has been removed. That is the case for all 3 elements not just fire. That is a nerf to the destruction line, 2 skills in the destruction line in fact. The consequence of that nerf is greater than just the remove of a special chance at applying secondary effects, it is actually a huge nerf by consequence of that.

In 1.6 Force pulse is an AOE, in 1.7 it is purely single target aside from the occasional and rare proc of a secondary effect. That is the case regardless of what elemental type you are using. And keep in mind it doesn't take just 1 proc, it will take 2 secondary effect procs within the first secondary effects time limit for force pulse to be a full AOE.

Dracane · August 2015

Armitas wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

The destruction line isn't getting nerfed just fire staffs incase you missed it Frost staffs are getting buffed to give damage shields on completed heavy attacks while wall of frost has gain a immoveable effect when enemies step into it while shock staff deals more splash damage to more enemies up to 6 now while shock touch can stun enemies now.

So it's just fire staffs that got nerf not the entire weapon system so it doesn't mean the end of the weapon just impulse spammer like you cause there are no combos when it came to impulse just spam.

On live Impulse and Force shock have a special 40% chance to apply secondary effects. Current to 1.7 the special chance for these skills has been removed. That is the case for all 3 elements not just fire. That is a nerf to the destruction line, 2 skills in the destruction line in fact. The consequence of that nerf is greater than just the remove of a special chance at applying secondary effects, it is actually a huge nerf by consequence of that.

In 1.6 Force pulse is an AOE, in 1.7 it is purely single target aside from the occasional and rare proc of a secondary effect. That is the case regardless of what elemental type you are using. And keep in mind it doesn't take just 1 proc, it will take 2 secondary effect procs within the first secondary effects time limit for force pulse to be a full AOE.

And I wonder, what the Destruction passive 'Elemental Force' is supposed to do. Increases the chance of elemental effects to apply by 100%. Seems like Increasing 0 by 100% is still 0

ColtPython · August 2015

I'm more disappointed in the Tri-focus passive nerf. All of the bonuses will only proc now on fully charged heavy attacks. =(

Dracane · August 2015

ColtPython wrote: »

I'm more disappointed in the Tri-focus passive nerf. All of the bonuses will only proc now on fully charged heavy attacks. =(

As for fire staves, this might true. But the gap between fire staves and other staves has been an issue and there were many complains about it.
With this change, the gap is not that big anymore. Fire is still the king, but not THAT superior anymore

People should have a choice, which element they want to use without feeling inferior, because fire is just too good and if you don't use it, you would loose potential.

timidobserver · August 2015

I think that one of the other goals of this patch is to kill off Skoria builds. They nerfed the set bonus and now are a major source of dot is being nerfed.

Armitas · August 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

I think that one of the other goals of this patch is to kill off Skoria builds. They nerfed the set bonus and now are a major source of dot is being nerfed.

Yeah that skoria nerf makes no sense compared to Neiren eth set. Crushing weave is 4 hits per set at 10% chance each hit, and there is likely other ways to have more hits per set. The Skoria nerf/Nerieneth buff makes about as much sense as impulse compared to steel tornado right now.

Sacadon · August 2015

Wow, if the burning/chilled/concussed affect %'s are so low in all cases then there is just no point in creating a build around them. At best they just increased the cost to maintain and support something no one deliberately uses.

Surely this is an oversight given they invested time in working to make other 2ndary effects for weapon skills useful across 1.5 and 1.6 (such as bleeds). Hopefully Eric and/or Rich is lurking in on this one.

Dracane · August 2015

Armitas wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I think that one of the other goals of this patch is to kill off Skoria builds. They nerfed the set bonus and now are a major source of dot is being nerfed.

Yeah that skoria nerf makes no sense compared to Neiren eth set. Crushing weave is 4 hits per set at 10% chance each hit, and there is likely other ways to have more hits per set. The Skoria nerf/Nerieneth buff makes about as much sense as impulse compared to steel tornado right now.

Exactly O.o Impulse is a joke compared to steel tornado, there is no point in using Impulse and now it's even less usefull, because Impulse totally lost one of it's main components: The elemental effect. While steel tornado is as op as always.

Sacadon wrote: »

Wow, if the burning/chilled/concussed affect %'s are so low in all cases then there is just no point in creating a build around them. At best they just increased the cost to maintain and support something no one deliberately uses.

Surely this is an oversight given they invested time in working to make other 2ndary effects for weapon skills useful across 1.5 and 1.6 (such as bleeds). Hopefully Eric and/or Rich is lurking in on this one.

Yea I mean, why did they actually decrease the chance for elemental effects to proc ? They weren't gamebreaking or especially strong/noticeable. Elemental chances used to be 100%, then 40% until recently and now basically 0%.

Armitas · August 2015

There is also the passive "Elemental Force" which will increase your spells chance at secondary effect by 15%...which is pretty much nothing now. Base chance is 10% but with this amazing passive it will now be 11.5%. That is now a waste of 2 skill points.

Edit: see below.

Dracane · August 2015

Armitas wrote: »

There is also the passive "Elemental Force" which will increase your spells chance at secondary effect by 15%...which is pretty much nothing now. Base is 10% with this amazing passive it will now be 11.5%. That is now a waste of 2 skill points.

Elemental force increases this chance by 100% now. But this makes no difference, because elemental effects basically never occure. This must be bugged, there's no other explaination. Aren't elemental effects supposed to proc with a 20% chance now ? They don't

Domander · August 2015

I don't know if it's supposed to, but shock ring still says it has a 40% chance. I don't know if it actually does.

ADarklore · August 2015

Apparently players aren't- 'playing as intended'.

Ishammael · August 2015

@Armitas Let's reroll stamina DKs and spam steel tornado until we can get it nerfed. Then revert back to the (way more fun) magicka DK.

Armitas · August 2015

Yeah, for real.

Armitas · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

There is also the passive "Elemental Force" which will increase your spells chance at secondary effect by 15%...which is pretty much nothing now. Base is 10% with this amazing passive it will now be 11.5%. That is now a waste of 2 skill points.

Elemental force increases this chance by 100% now. But this makes no difference, because elemental effects basically never occure. This must be bugged, there's no other explaination. Aren't elemental effects supposed to proc with a 20% chance now ? They don't

Didn't see that. Looked back over the patch notes and found it applies to weapon glyphs too. So that should technically bring it back up to 40%...with the exception of the fact that it is not working as you point out. So it looks like they were thinking about the proc chance on those two skills when they made the adjustments. I thought for a moment we might be good once they fixed the proc chance, but I don't think we will

The weapon glyph will only proc once every 4 seconds so there is no way to get more than 1 enemy burning via weapon glyphs at all. The whole Force Pulse thing is still screwed even if they fix the weapon glyph proc. Sad day, such a shame.

byrom101b16_ESO · August 2015

Force Pulse and Crushing Shock are both the equivalent of throwing feathers at your opponents in the hopes of tickling them to death in IC at the moment, utterly useless except to proc shards

The same with staff attacks - heavy or otherwise - the damage and/or perhaps the penetration passive need to be upped considerably.

As for Wall of Uselessness - that needs a massive boost to be even borderline competitive, but I suspect its unspammable and crap because of lag issues it would cause if popular.

They are better off replacing it with an elemental dot or similar...

Dracane · August 2015

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Force Pulse and Crushing Shock are both the equivalent of throwing feathers at your opponents in the hopes of tickling them to death in IC at the moment, utterly useless except to proc shards

The same with staff attacks - heavy or otherwise - the damage and/or perhaps the penetration passive need to be upped considerably.

As for Wall of Uselessness - that needs a massive boost to be even borderline competitive, but I suspect its unspammable and crap because of lag issues it would cause if popular.

They are better off replacing it with an elemental dot or similar...

The way you're talking sounds funny

I like
And I agree. Wall of elements is highly underpowered in pve, and dead in pvp. It deals 700-800 damage per second. What ? This isn't worth slotting.

All destruction abilities now became very underwhelming. Force Shock is worse than other spammable abilities, wall of elements deals no damage, Impulse is nothing compared to steel tornado. And let's not even start talking about destructive touch.

The only use of destruction staff is for Elemental Drain Bots in trials and dungeons.

byrom101b16_ESO · August 2015

Yeah you're right Dracane, I wouldn't even slot Destructive Touch when using a Master's Staff... lol

Zsymon · August 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

The destruction line isn't getting nerfed just fire staffs incase you missed it Frost staffs are getting buffed to give damage shields on completed heavy attacks while wall of frost has gain a immoveable effect when enemies step into it while shock staff deals more splash damage to more enemies up to 6 now while shock touch can stun enemies now.

So it's just fire staffs that got nerf not the entire weapon system so it doesn't mean the end of the weapon just impulse spammer like you cause there are no combos when it came to impulse just spam.

An 8% health damage shield actually lowers your survivability, since such a small shield means you take the majority of an attack to the face unmitigated. It's the same with weapon glyph damage shields, they make you take more damage from an attack instead of less.

Only larger damage shields are increase defence, all the small ones decrease it. Especially now light armor gives more armor rating, the difference is larger for mages. Using small damage shields is the same as walking around with 0 armor and spell resistance.

The result of ZOS' policy to completely ignore difficult to solve bugs since beta.