Come on ZoS, look at all the posts! 0 Stam regen while blocking will ruin this game!

Wing · August 2015

the dynasty still has semi monthly meeting with ZoS, but its mostly limited to things involving guild traders and the like.

I still would like to see the damage reduction from blocking come down a wee bit and flat DR added as a bonus to heavy armor, this both nerfs blocking a slight bit and improves heavy armor a bit, and that sounds okay.

I know personofsecrets has pointed out blocking and flat DR don't scale well, and while that's true im not trying to suggest something that makes blocking still be required, I would really like heavy armor to be able to stand and tank on its own, and sword and board to add *further* defense but not be a required option and be able to stand on its own as well.

in my mind 5 medium 2 heavy sword and board should be on par with something like 5 heavy 2 medium two hander in terms of defensive / offensive strength. giving you multiple choices in how you approach tanking, but not compound into 1 best way. as is currently required in 5-full heavy sword and board.

Stalwart385 · August 2015

Wing wrote: »

the dynasty still has semi monthly meeting with ZoS, but its mostly limited to things involving guild traders and the like.

I still would like to see the damage reduction from blocking come down a wee bit and flat DR added as a bonus to heavy armor, this both nerfs blocking a slight bit and improves heavy armor a bit, and that sounds okay.

I know personofsecrets has pointed out blocking and flat DR don't scale well, and while that's true im not trying to suggest something that makes blocking still be required, I would really like heavy armor to be able to stand and tank on its own, and sword and board to add *further* defense but not be a required option and be able to stand on its own as well.

in my mind 5 medium 2 heavy sword and board should be on par with something like 5 heavy 2 medium two hander in terms of defensive / offensive strength. giving you multiple choices in how you approach tanking, but not compound into 1 best way. as is currently required in 5-full heavy sword and board.

If true endgame trials builds did not require perma-blocking (or the best dps in the game) it would be okay. As of now you just have to figure out a gimpy build so you can keep perma-blocking. The content isn't setup for this change.

Wing · August 2015

Stalwart385 wrote: »

As of now you just have to figure out a gimpy build so you can keep perma-blocking. The content isn't setup for this change.

agreed so much, this games content has been designed since its inception with this feature being available to players. you cant just say "all cars can now only have two wheels" and expect everything to be okay.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

stuff

No changes to PvE, but you actively voice your opinion about TV stones in your signature, if you had credibility, it's gone now.

Infinite resources while mitigating tons of damage doesn't make sense and the change is a correction in a really bad design flaw. Having a high amount of health, spell resist, and armor while blocking major attacks does make sense however.

They are changing a lot of design flaws in this game, this is a major one with many to come. Managing resources in this should have been paramount from the start.

Infinite resources and tons of damage don't either, but nobody thinks that DPS getting their resources nerfd will make the game more fun.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Sorry about that. my guild is currently 475 strong and has talks with the devs also. we have an inactive policy of 10 days and usaully about 50-75 memebrs on at any time. Our sister guild we started to take our overflow is about 250 strong with about 40-50 active at any time. so perhaps there is a problem with the recruting.

I have active guilds too. I just mean to show that 1.6 took a beating on many players.

The CP system was a pain in the butt and didn't pass as content. I watched as multiple guilds, with gosh darn good & dedicated players, slowly went away. They were frustrated with ZOS and now, going into 1.7/2.1 a bunch of new players are going to be frustrated with ZOS.

Like I said, these were people that had ZOS guild talks. What did they talk about? I'm not sure, but I think it is safe to assume that ESO didn't go in the direction that the guild wanted.

Asrien · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

This is a terribly hard sell when you don't assuage the concerns of naysayers. It's all fair and good to tell us that this is good for the long-term health of the game, but that doesn't shed light on how or why, nor does it provide any comfort to people who're used to playing as tanks, which is becoming increasingly non-viable as a play-style. Especially for tanks who rely on stamina. I'm sure you've got great reasoning, and if we were privy to it a bit more we might be more understanding but as things stand this decision just stands to alienate and divide players. So I'd request more info on precisely why things are going in this direction and how it benefits the game, because seeing the pros instead of just the cons could go a long way.

olemanwinter · August 2015

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

This game (more and more) is being designed for the ultra hard-core elite and the completely oblivious roleplayers. If you are anywhere between those two, this company is going to repeatedly kick you in the nuts.

As long as the very best twitch-streaming players who's lives revolve around gaming can beat something while also using a 12 person conference call then it's all well and good.

You disagree? Here's a pet fox you can buy and frolic with.

Anxileel · August 2015

Stalwart385 wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

stuff

No changes to PvE, but you actively voice your opinion about TV stones in your signature, if you had credibility, it's gone now.

Infinite resources while mitigating tons of damage doesn't make sense and the change is a correction in a really bad design flaw. Having a high amount of health, spell resist, and armor while blocking major attacks does make sense however.

They are changing a lot of design flaws in this game, this is a major one with many to come. Managing resources in this should have been paramount from the start.

Yet they designed the game without this from the start. Leading to this being a hack that fits poorly into the game.

Indeed

Anxileel · August 2015

Asrien wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

This is a terribly hard sell when you don't assuage the concerns of naysayers. It's all fair and good to tell us that this is good for the long-term health of the game, but that doesn't shed light on how or why, nor does it provide any comfort to people who're used to playing as tanks, which is becoming increasingly non-viable as a play-style. Especially for tanks who rely on stamina. I'm sure you've got great reasoning, and if we were privy to it a bit more we might be more understanding but as things stand this decision just stands to alienate and divide players. So I'd request more info on precisely why things are going in this direction and how it benefits the game, because seeing the pros instead of just the cons could go a long way.

I would like more info too.

WillS · August 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

This game (more and more) is being designed for the ultra hard-core elite and the completely oblivious roleplayers. If you are anywhere between those two, this company is going to repeatedly kick you in the nuts.

As long as the very best twitch-streaming players who's lives revolve around gaming can beat something while also using a 12 person conference call then it's all well and good.

You disagree? Here's a pet fox you can buy and frolic with.

I guess then i will move on to another game if it does happen like that...

Wing · August 2015

pajgadevchetanrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I guess then i will move on to another game if it does happen like that...

im sure you wont be alone, its what happens when you cater to the 1%, they end up making up your entire player base

bowmanz607 · August 2015

Wing wrote: »

pajgadevchetanrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I guess then i will move on to another game if it does happen like that...

im sure you wont be alone, its what happens when you cater to the 1%, they end up making up your entire player base

lol ok the 1%. These forums make up a small population of the eso community.

acw37162 · August 2015

I'm newer to the game bought it for PS4.

I have found I prefer stamina builds.

As I don't have the history with this issue others have I've just been reading a lot, pulling up video, and generally just paying attention to try to develop a solid opinion.

Having watched a couple of things and with the understanding this new mechanic basically says if you so much as tap block you loose at least 1 2 sec cycle of stamina regen which can turn into more if you hold block into another 2 second cycle or two block again regardless of taking damage or not.

If this is the case, and I am more of casual PVE then a hardcore PVP player I can't see any reason to run a stamina based build with this mechanic coupled with the dodge roll cost changes.

Magic builds are superior in any aspect of resource management. You don't loose magica regen if you block, you can devote your entire stamina pool to blocking or dodge rolling if needed and still have your primary resource to shield and do damage and you still regen your primary resource while blocking.

What am I missing?

I don't enjoy magica builds and I do not begrudge any who prefers them.

Regardless of perma blocking or block casting these changes look terrible on paper and a majority of your testers who stream are mainly rocking straight magica builds now.

kaorunandrak · August 2015

acw37162 wrote: »

I'm newer to the game bought it for PS4.

I have found I prefer stamina builds.

As I don't have the history with this issue others have I've just been reading a lot, pulling up video, and generally just paying attention to try to develop a solid opinion.

Having watched a couple of things and with the understanding this new mechanic basically says if you so much as tap block you loose at least 1 2 sec cycle of stamina regen which can turn into more if you hold block into another 2 second cycle or two block again regardless of taking damage or not.

If this is the case, and I am more of casual PVE then a hardcore PVP player I can't see any reason to run a stamina based build with this mechanic coupled with the dodge roll cost changes.

Magic builds are superior in any aspect of resource management. You don't loose magica regen if you block, you can devote your entire stamina pool to blocking or dodge rolling if needed and still have your primary resource to shield and do damage and you still regen your primary resource while blocking.

What am I missing?

I don't enjoy magica builds and I do not begrudge any who prefers them.

Regardless of perma blocking or block casting these changes look terrible on paper and a majority of your testers who stream are mainly rocking straight magica builds now.

This is the issue in deed. In group PVE it won't be as noticeable unless you don't run with a tank and are pulling aggro. But in pvp situations, where tank taunts don't matter and you can get focused/ganked/ or spammed with frags/wrecking blow/suprise attack/etc it will matter a lot more. So yeah magika builds are the way to go so far they are easier and more efficient to play, have more resources, more range, more powers to choose from, better damage mitigation, etc etc etc.

block frags for 1 second lose a chunk of stamina- no stamina regen for 2 seconds- dodge roll second frags lose chunk of stamina- still not regening stamina- block third frags lose more stamina- still in regen decay and dodge roll cost increase- eat fourth frags cause your just loosing stamina trying to get to sorc who's laughing his ass off cause he knows your resources are declining to fast- die

Mantic0r3 · August 2015

Can someone explain to me why they didnt add this "0 regen while blocking"-*** to battle cry (or whatever the buff you get in cyrodiil is called) instead ? So pvp would be fixed and pve would not be touched instead of this mess...

LazyLewis · August 2015

xaraan wrote: »

I'm agreeing with LazyLewis.

If that doesn't tell you something, nothing will.

This made me laugh. Me Xaraan have never really got on lol

LazyLewis · August 2015

Ive just worked the last 5 days in a row and haven't played this game sicne Wednesday. I came online to 195 notifications on the forums. I could not remember what I posted about and was like WTF!!

CP5 · August 2015

kaorunandrak wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

I'm newer to the game bought it for PS4.

I have found I prefer stamina builds.

As I don't have the history with this issue others have I've just been reading a lot, pulling up video, and generally just paying attention to try to develop a solid opinion.

Having watched a couple of things and with the understanding this new mechanic basically says if you so much as tap block you loose at least 1 2 sec cycle of stamina regen which can turn into more if you hold block into another 2 second cycle or two block again regardless of taking damage or not.

If this is the case, and I am more of casual PVE then a hardcore PVP player I can't see any reason to run a stamina based build with this mechanic coupled with the dodge roll cost changes.

Magic builds are superior in any aspect of resource management. You don't loose magica regen if you block, you can devote your entire stamina pool to blocking or dodge rolling if needed and still have your primary resource to shield and do damage and you still regen your primary resource while blocking.

What am I missing?

I don't enjoy magica builds and I do not begrudge any who prefers them.

Regardless of perma blocking or block casting these changes look terrible on paper and a majority of your testers who stream are mainly rocking straight magica builds now.

This is the issue in deed. In group PVE it won't be as noticeable unless you don't run with a tank and are pulling aggro. But in pvp situations, where tank taunts don't matter and you can get focused/ganked/ or spammed with frags/wrecking blow/suprise attack/etc it will matter a lot more. So yeah magika builds are the way to go so far they are easier and more efficient to play, have more resources, more range, more powers to choose from, better damage mitigation, etc etc etc.

block frags for 1 second lose a chunk of stamina- no stamina regen for 2 seconds- dodge roll second frags lose chunk of stamina- still not regening stamina- block third frags lose more stamina- still in regen decay and dodge roll cost increase- eat fourth frags cause your just loosing stamina trying to get to sorc who's laughing his ass off cause he knows your resources are declining to fast- die

But remember, its fun! Gotta think of the future of the game here.

Rinmaethodain · August 2015

Another week, another PTS update. 2.1.2 confirms what we have seen so far.

Apparently to keep "good long term health of game" ZOS new policy is to ignore any feedback that is coming from the players who are actually being the subject to nerf/game mechanics change.

DDuke · August 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Another week, another PTS update. 2.1.2 confirms what we have seen so far.

Apparently to keep "good long term health of game" ZOS new policy is to ignore any feedback that is coming from the players who are actually being the subject to nerf/game mechanics change.

They have already addressed it multiple times.

Just because you don't like what they've said doesn't mean they've ignored you.

World does not revolve around @MaximusDargus

Rinmaethodain · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Another week, another PTS update. 2.1.2 confirms what we have seen so far.

Apparently to keep "good long term health of game" ZOS new policy is to ignore any feedback that is coming from the players who are actually being the subject to nerf/game mechanics change.

They have already addressed it multiple times.

Just because you don't like what they've said doesn't mean they've ignored you.

World does not revolve around @MaximusDargus

An empty argument like "its for the good of long term health of game" is not "addressing issue". Not to mention that all made up ZOS explanation was disproved by actual PVE tanks, not PVP DPSes like you who find personal gains in this unjustified nerf. This is not "addressing" issue. Its a slap in face of PVE tanks and one big mockery.

The world does not revolve around me, and it is far from revolving around true PVE tanks because world is already "taken" by NB DPSes who dictate every change in game (with ZOS devs who openly supports widespread harassment of tanks)

mrdankles · August 2015

I just care about the 33% increase in rolls. How the hell am I suppose to survive in PVP when a group of stealthed NBs attack me?!

bowmanz607 · August 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Another week, another PTS update. 2.1.2 confirms what we have seen so far.

Apparently to keep "good long term health of game" ZOS new policy is to ignore any feedback that is coming from the players who are actually being the subject to nerf/game mechanics change.

They have already addressed it multiple times.

Just because you don't like what they've said doesn't mean they've ignored you.

World does not revolve around @MaximusDargus

An empty argument like "its for the good of long term health of game" is not "addressing issue". Not to mention that all made up ZOS explanation was disproved by actual PVE tanks, not PVP DPSes like you who find personal gains in this unjustified nerf. This is not "addressing" issue. Its a slap in face of PVE tanks and one big mockery.

The world does not revolve around me, and it is far from revolving around true PVE tanks because world is already "taken" by NB DPSes who dictate every change in game (with ZOS devs who openly supports widespread harassment of tanks)

So one, ppl seem to forget that NB use to be a joke to many ppl just saying. classes will fluctuate. it is the nature of an MMO.

two, maybe tanks you run with are having trouble. maybe tell them to try and not use the same build they used in live. Many of the tanks I run with have been able to adapt and change leading to a much more interactive experience. Although they find it somewhat more difficult, they have had great success and have felt more immersed in the gameplay. Tanking should be difficult. you are taking a bunch of damage from many different sources in different ways. Holding block and spamming abilities is mindless. moreover, check out deltias video. He has even stated that when you change your build accroding to the new mechanics tanking really is not much worse of then it was before.

I agree with Duke. just because we have a different opinion or experience then you does not mean we do not play the game. it merely means that we disagree with you.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

@MaximusDargus @ZOS_RichLambert

Swarog · August 2015

mrdankles wrote: »

I just care about the 33% increase in rolls. How the hell am I suppose to survive in PVP when a group of stealthed NBs attack me?!

DDs does cares about expensive roll because they feel the problem and don't cares about zero stamina regen because it's not about them and it has profit for them. Such a hypocrisy.

tordr86b16_ESO · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

DDuke · August 2015

Swarog wrote: »

mrdankles wrote: »

I just care about the 33% increase in rolls. How the hell am I suppose to survive in PVP when a group of stealthed NBs attack me?!

DDs does cares about expensive roll because they feel the problem and don't cares about zero stamina regen because it's not about them and it has profit for them. Such a hypocrisy.

Actually, I spend more time blocking in PvP than roll dodging (since I'm not a rollerblade), and I frequently run vet dungeons without a tank (since holding RMB when attacked is all you need to complete them).

Also, every competent DPS uses block (or bash) as a cancel in their DPS rotations (and then gets accused of using a "macro" in PvP - LOL).

Yet, having played PTS I know no stam regen while blocking is a good change, same as the roll dodge change.

I can look at things objectively and see the big picture, despite whatever bias I might have.
You should try that.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Swarog wrote: »

mrdankles wrote: »

I just care about the 33% increase in rolls. How the hell am I suppose to survive in PVP when a group of stealthed NBs attack me?!

DDs does cares about expensive roll because they feel the problem and don't cares about zero stamina regen because it's not about them and it has profit for them. Such a hypocrisy.

Actually, I spend more time blocking in PvP than roll dodging (since I'm not a rollerblade), and I frequently run vet dungeons without a tank (since holding RMB when attacked is all you need to complete them).

Also, every competent DPS uses block (or bash) as a cancel in their DPS rotations (and then gets accused of using a "macro" in PvP - LOL).

Yet, having played PTS I know no stam regen while blocking is a good change, same as the roll dodge change.

I can look at things objectively and see the big picture, despite whatever bias I might have.
You should try that.

>Objective
>Continuously gives biased opinion on how tanking should be.
>Uses personal anecdotes to justify ideas

Saturn · August 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Another week, another PTS update. 2.1.2 confirms what we have seen so far.

Apparently to keep "good long term health of game" ZOS new policy is to ignore any feedback that is coming from the players who are actually being the subject to nerf/game mechanics change.

They have already addressed it multiple times.

Just because you don't like what they've said doesn't mean they've ignored you.

World does not revolve around @MaximusDargus

An empty argument like "its for the good of long term health of game" is not "addressing issue". Not to mention that all made up ZOS explanation was disproved by actual PVE tanks, not PVP DPSes like you who find personal gains in this unjustified nerf. This is not "addressing" issue. Its a slap in face of PVE tanks and one big mockery.

The world does not revolve around me, and it is far from revolving around true PVE tanks because world is already "taken" by NB DPSes who dictate every change in game (with ZOS devs who openly supports widespread harassment of tanks)

So one, ppl seem to forget that NB use to be a joke to many ppl just saying. classes will fluctuate. it is the nature of an MMO.

two, maybe tanks you run with are having trouble. maybe tell them to try and not use the same build they used in live. Many of the tanks I run with have been able to adapt and change leading to a much more interactive experience. Although they find it somewhat more difficult, they have had great success and have felt more immersed in the gameplay. Tanking should be difficult. you are taking a bunch of damage from many different sources in different ways. Holding block and spamming abilities is mindless. moreover, check out deltias video. He has even stated that when you change your build accroding to the new mechanics tanking really is not much worse of then it was before.

I agree with Duke. just because we have a different opinion or experience then you does not mean we do not play the game. it merely means that we disagree with you.

I aggree with you, except for the Deltia part, he is not a person I would refer to when it comes to matters of tanking. He simply has not been tanking long enough to be a credible source. Have you seen his new tanking build? It is the exact same thing as what most people use currently on Live and he is even relying on the Engine Guardian set, which is not something you want to do.
A good tank adapts to the situation given, when they almost doubled the cost of Inner Fire back in 1.6 a lot of tanks had to adapt to that change, this is just another instance of that. Also, a quick advice to any unknowing tanks would be, Shieldplay enchant, use it.
I have tanked the two new dungeons using the same setup as I have on Live, it is no different if your healer is a templar. The problem lies with the fact that 0 stam regen ruins non-templar healers' effectiveness and 0 stam regen makes Stamina Regeneration enchants / gear effects / passives, completely and utterly redundant. Most dragonknight tanks should, if they haven't already, swap out Green Dragon Blood with Coagulating Blood.

Jules · August 2015

I understand the interest in making tanking feel more interactive. But 0% stam regen when blocking is just so incredibly harsh. They should've started at only receiving 50-60% of your regen when blocking, to start. And saw how it went. This fundamentally changes the game for magicka dks. And for all PVE tanks.