Come on ZoS, look at all the posts! 0 Stam regen while blocking will ruin this game!

xaraan · August 2015

Hektik_V wrote: »

Playing the PTS it was far too easy to just run me out of stamina via unblockable CC as well as high burst abilities such as wrecking blow that I would have to block. Instead of just balancing the abilities that are overpowered, we get these giant gameplay adjustments literally every major patch.

They've heard overwhelming feedback about certain abilities like wrecking blow being too strong from a variety of sources and they choose to ignore that feedback. So the "we listen to feedback" comment they make is a bit weak at times.

What pisses me off the most about this stuff is it's not rocket science. There have been and can be some simple fixes done to really improve this game, but they refuse to do them or try something completely opposite and mess things up more.

Darnathian · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

hellkrasher wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

I like this, shows that ZOS knows what they want for the game, and will try to achive it no matter what. Every single change in the game will make some ppl happy and some not to so much. This change in particular i see it as needed for making tanking and overall defense been harder in pve and pvp.

ZOS, if you think this is the way, go for it, as you guys can make mistakes, we, the community, normally dont know what we really want, so go ahead and try it.

From Argentina i say to you all, keep the good work ^^. Have a nice day.

Well spooken *TOPIC CLOSED*

Oh because it's so hard to press three buttons to get 30k shields back up for defense? Seriously. What is wrong with you people. I want to scream. Literally. That there is so much self gain from 2 other classes. Amazing

Seriously think about the gap right now between DPS builds and tank builds in PVP right now. Blocking holds back the wave for a little then still crashes by. This makes it much worse now for survivability.

As they say. The rich get richer.

You want it harder in PVE fine. Go ahead. But for PVP as a tank since release I can tell you this is a killer for that play style.

bowmanz607 · August 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

hellkrasher wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

I like this, shows that ZOS knows what they want for the game, and will try to achive it no matter what. Every single change in the game will make some ppl happy and some not to so much. This change in particular i see it as needed for making tanking and overall defense been harder in pve and pvp.

ZOS, if you think this is the way, go for it, as you guys can make mistakes, we, the community, normally dont know what we really want, so go ahead and try it.

From Argentina i say to you all, keep the good work ^^. Have a nice day.

Well spooken *TOPIC CLOSED*

Oh because it's so hard to press three buttons to get 30k shields back up for defense? Seriously. What is wrong with you people. I want to scream. Literally. That there is so much self gain from 2 other classes. Amazing

Seriously think about the gap right now between DPS builds and tank builds in PVP right now. Blocking holds back the wave for a little then still crashes by. This makes it much worse now for survivability.

As they say. The rich get richer.

You want it harder in PVE fine. Go ahead. But for PVP as a tank since release I can tell you this is a killer for that play style.

first, sheilds have been nerfed. cut their power and made them critable aling with a new set to help take them down. they balanced sheilds pretty well compared to live. two, pure tanks were not really a reliable build to begin with in pvp. for solo well you may not die but you were def. not killing anyone. for group fighting many peolpe would ignore the people trying to tank. at least with the people i run with and know. it was a kill everyone else then gang up on the tank. or fear the crap out of them. so those types of builds really are not affected too much and again there ae work arounds if you spec out to block for a long time. pure tank builds were never good in pvp especially cause you cant taunt players. (another reason i cant wait for spell crafting which may make a pure tank viable in pvp). what this does is stops people from being able to put out very good-great dps while perma-blocking. now those players need to actually fight you. the best role imo for a person that wants to be like a tank in pvp is to be a frontline fighter. someone that can lead a push or defend a tactical retreat. a player that is durable enought o take some hits while still being able to put out at least respctable dps that makes people have to put their attn on you or die. but even then or as a oure tank in live or pts you shouldnt be able to just run into anything and take all the damage. if you are a pure tank and run into 6 players by yourself yes you should die. just as if you ran into trials by yourself you should die. tanks needed healers and group memebrs to be succesful not just be able to block all damage. even what i consider to be a frontline fighter needs to know when to push and when to fall back. bottom line is that no matter your build someone has a counter to it anyway. you spec out to perma block you get feared. you are a bolt escape artist. well i will gap close the crap out of you. you are a dot build i purge. you are durable, i have sustained. you stealth, i aoe or detect pot you. (or piercing mark..etc.). every build has a a weakness. all this change does is make a player more situationally aware of your surroundings which will make everyone a better player.

kaorunandrak · August 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

unmmm really. 1.6 brought in a ton of people, so um ya no. apparently you think that everyone seems to think that this is a bad mechanic.based on the number of places in which ZoS gets their information from I find that it is a good balance of the player base that they listen too. with all the posts that start out like this one, there are just as many people in those posts supporting the change. moreover, it is way more common for people to yell on these forums about something they dont like then something they like. Your idead that everyone will just leave (and what the OP suggest) is based off the idea that the voices in the forums are the end all and be all of the eso community. that is simply wrong. in fact many players welcome the change. will it change builds...ofcourse it will. this is an mmo builds will constantly be changing an so will the game meta. if you do not like that then you are playing the wrong type of game. This allows for more active involvement in combat from the tanks in pve. this also opens the door for many new and diverse tanking builds along with new group mechanics while fighting in trials or DSA etc. for pvp, the change is obvious and stops perma-blocking. in fact, i tested out a magicka dk build with sword an board and i was able to block for sometime before my stamina was depleted and that was without using a potion or speccing anything into stamina. i only put about 20 points into reduce block cost. so, i can only imagine a tank actually specced out to block most of the time is able to do even with this change. moreover, in pve the bosses have animation ques for what and when the next attack will be. this gives time in between shots to stop blocking through in a light attack or heavy see the animation and block again. it really is not hat complicated it is all about timing. just as a dps needs to know th animations to be able to dodgeroll out of something before it hits you. the same idea is now spread to all roles. it requires higher situational awarness that is all. the people that will leave will do so b/c they are mad that their build and the way they learned to play will no longer work the same. that is ridiculous and i wouldnt want to play with those players anyway. many players will tweak or change their builds and practice those new uilds until they have what they want. 2 months down the road we wont even think twice about this change. good players will welcome the change and take on the opportunity to conquer a new challenge. other players it may take a little longer to figure out, but ultimately they will figure it out and it will become the norm. I ask you what is really the big issue here? you cant block forever? as it should be. it was a BS mechanic anyway. however, just as a perma-dodger can still spec to dodgeroll a hefty amount (way more then anyone needs), just as a perma-bolt escape player can still spec to bolt escape a ton (again way more than is needed), a perma-blocker can still well block for a long time (once again way more then is needed). except this time if you spec for those rolls, you will drasctically be lacking in other areas. this is how it should be. noone should be able to out dps another player while they are perma blocking. i will never get the outcry against this change. i welcome solid reasoning, but i have yet to find it. Bottom line is this makes the game much better all around, but wu=ill require some tweaking to get it right.

You say some very interesting things here, though I would suggest(not trying to be a jerk) editing the post and formatting it a bit so there's a higher chance of people reading it.

Now there is one line in your post I would like to point out and highlight here for everyone to see "For pvp, the change is obvious and stops perma-blocking. In fact, I tested out a magicka dk build with sword and board and I was able to block for sometime before my stamina was depleted and that was without using a potion or speccing anything into stamina. I only put about 20 points into reduce block cost. so, I can only imagine a tank actually specced out to block most of the time is able to do even with this change."

This right here is the LARGEST problem with the change, IT DOES NOT STOP MAGIKA BUILDS from perma-blocking during fights. Think about it bowman your a magika Dk with sword and board only using your stamina for blocking, your still able to heal/buff/attack firing off abilities using your magika surviving and killing no problem right?

Ok flip it around your a stamina build, you have built to be a weapon user so you are using STAMINA BASED abilities in combat ONTOP of using your stamina pool to block, how long do you think your going to be able to keep that block up now? How long do you think your going to be able to cast? How effective in combat do you think your going to be in a pvp situation where players are dropping high damage attacks like surprise attack or lethal arrow? Or high damage, hard cc attacks like jabs, frags, and wrecking blow forcing you to break free or block?

Now the devils advocate answer I have being hearing a lot of and I get the feeling the dev's are also leaning towards is well use more magika abilities on your bar. Now for me I'm a stamina DPS I am fully invested into stamina to maximize my stamina abilities, I do use two magika abilities Eruption to stack with caltrops for DPS and igneous shield to buff the heal on my rally not to mention grant the minor brutality and heal 5% of my stamina as a dk. I can use my magika abilties maybe 4-5? times before my magika bar is done. So how is "use more magikia" abilities an effective option for me or any of the other stamina players out there?

The answer to that question I keep seeing is "L2P spec some into magika and use more magika abilities!". So then as a stamina based toon in order to make up for this change I need to spec hybrid, a spec they will support in FUTURE patches but not currently, in an attempt to make my self more survivable in pvp and take a burst and overall DPS loss to do so. But a magika build can continue to spec ENTIRELY into magika and remain mostly unharmed by this change cause L2P newb right?

No sorry that's not fair and not balanced gameplay, magika has access to some of the best heals, buffs, damage, utility, and cc abilities in the game most of which while staying at range and out of immediate danger and all while not having to rely on an overly stressed resource pool. They need to address these issues and rethink this regen change while taking in more then "pve tanking is boring", they need to look at the effects in pvp, they need to look at the effects on stamina dps, and if not then they need to nerf magikas ass into the ground to compensate. Which btw as much as I hate magika (sorry I'm a 2 handed warrior at heart) I don't want them to do, I want them to make a real balanced change that will result in addressing the problem on both sides.

Kerioko · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

This game is about freedom and playing the way you want. Caps don't sound like freedom. The game has become much better after they've finally removed these horrible caps. Pre 1.6, everything was clear: Everything into health.
Now you can choose to spend and increase them the way you like.

People want to get the maximum out of their character, they want to push their strenghts as much as possible. Few players appreciate a balanced build, which is still easier without softcaps.

With softcaps it was everything into health, without softcaps, its get 18-20K health then everything into primary stat and spam skill that does most damage. Without softcaps, there is no more freedom than there was with them. It has gotten to where you can stack certain things in such a way that dps is insane and there is not need for tanks or healers in some content. And those that do appreciate a balanced build, there is no room for them anymore because everything is about cookie cutter builds that get the highest dps parse to steam roll content.

While softcaps were not the greatest thing, getting rid of them created more problems (balance specific) then it fixed.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

Kerioko wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

This game is about freedom and playing the way you want. Caps don't sound like freedom. The game has become much better after they've finally removed these horrible caps. Pre 1.6, everything was clear: Everything into health.
Now you can choose to spend and increase them the way you like.

People want to get the maximum out of their character, they want to push their strenghts as much as possible. Few players appreciate a balanced build, which is still easier without softcaps.

With softcaps it was everything into health, without softcaps, its get 18-20K health then everything into primary stat and spam skill that does most damage. Without softcaps, there is no more freedom than there was with them. It has gotten to where you can stack certain things in such a way that dps is insane and there is not need for tanks or healers in some content. And those that do appreciate a balanced build, there is no room for them anymore because everything is about cookie cutter builds that get the highest dps parse to steam roll content.

While softcaps were not the greatest thing, getting rid of them created more problems (balance specific) then it fixed.

Soft caps were also removed selectively.

Tanks still have to deal with soft and hard caps on damage mitigation as well as block cost mitigation.

bowmanz607 · August 2015

kaorunandrak wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

unmmm really. 1.6 brought in a ton of people, so um ya no. apparently you think that everyone seems to think that this is a bad mechanic.based on the number of places in which ZoS gets their information from I find that it is a good balance of the player base that they listen too. with all the posts that start out like this one, there are just as many people in those posts supporting the change. moreover, it is way more common for people to yell on these forums about something they dont like then something they like. Your idead that everyone will just leave (and what the OP suggest) is based off the idea that the voices in the forums are the end all and be all of the eso community. that is simply wrong. in fact many players welcome the change. will it change builds...ofcourse it will. this is an mmo builds will constantly be changing an so will the game meta. if you do not like that then you are playing the wrong type of game. This allows for more active involvement in combat from the tanks in pve. this also opens the door for many new and diverse tanking builds along with new group mechanics while fighting in trials or DSA etc. for pvp, the change is obvious and stops perma-blocking. in fact, i tested out a magicka dk build with sword an board and i was able to block for sometime before my stamina was depleted and that was without using a potion or speccing anything into stamina. i only put about 20 points into reduce block cost. so, i can only imagine a tank actually specced out to block most of the time is able to do even with this change. moreover, in pve the bosses have animation ques for what and when the next attack will be. this gives time in between shots to stop blocking through in a light attack or heavy see the animation and block again. it really is not hat complicated it is all about timing. just as a dps needs to know th animations to be able to dodgeroll out of something before it hits you. the same idea is now spread to all roles. it requires higher situational awarness that is all. the people that will leave will do so b/c they are mad that their build and the way they learned to play will no longer work the same. that is ridiculous and i wouldnt want to play with those players anyway. many players will tweak or change their builds and practice those new uilds until they have what they want. 2 months down the road we wont even think twice about this change. good players will welcome the change and take on the opportunity to conquer a new challenge. other players it may take a little longer to figure out, but ultimately they will figure it out and it will become the norm. I ask you what is really the big issue here? you cant block forever? as it should be. it was a BS mechanic anyway. however, just as a perma-dodger can still spec to dodgeroll a hefty amount (way more then anyone needs), just as a perma-bolt escape player can still spec to bolt escape a ton (again way more than is needed), a perma-blocker can still well block for a long time (once again way more then is needed). except this time if you spec for those rolls, you will drasctically be lacking in other areas. this is how it should be. noone should be able to out dps another player while they are perma blocking. i will never get the outcry against this change. i welcome solid reasoning, but i have yet to find it. Bottom line is this makes the game much better all around, but wu=ill require some tweaking to get it right.

You say some very interesting things here, though I would suggest(not trying to be a jerk) editing the post and formatting it a bit so there's a higher chance of people reading it.

Now there is one line in your post I would like to point out and highlight here for everyone to see "For pvp, the change is obvious and stops perma-blocking. In fact, I tested out a magicka dk build with sword and board and I was able to block for sometime before my stamina was depleted and that was without using a potion or speccing anything into stamina. I only put about 20 points into reduce block cost. so, I can only imagine a tank actually specced out to block most of the time is able to do even with this change."

This right here is the LARGEST problem with the change, IT DOES NOT STOP MAGIKA BUILDS from perma-blocking during fights. Think about it bowman your a magika Dk with sword and board only using your stamina for blocking, your still able to heal/buff/attack firing off abilities using your magika surviving and killing no problem right?

Ok flip it around your a stamina build, you have built to be a weapon user so you are using STAMINA BASED abilities in combat ONTOP of using your stamina pool to block, how long do you think your going to be able to keep that block up now? How long do you think your going to be able to cast? How effective in combat do you think your going to be in a pvp situation where players are dropping high damage attacks like surprise attack or lethal arrow? Or high damage, hard cc attacks like jabs, frags, and wrecking blow forcing you to break free or block?

Now the devils advocate answer I have being hearing a lot of and I get the feeling the dev's are also leaning towards is well use more magika abilities on your bar. Now for me I'm a stamina DPS I am fully invested into stamina to maximize my stamina abilities, I do use two magika abilities Eruption to stack with caltrops for DPS and igneous shield to buff the heal on my rally not to mention grant the minor brutality and heal 5% of my stamina as a dk. I can use my magika abilties maybe 4-5? times before my magika bar is done. So how is "use more magikia" abilities an effective option for me or any of the other stamina players out there?

The answer to that question I keep seeing is "L2P spec some into magika and use more magika abilities!". So then as a stamina based toon in order to make up for this change I need to spec hybrid, a spec they will support in FUTURE patches but not currently, in an attempt to make my self more survivable in pvp and take a burst and overall DPS loss to do so. But a magika build can continue to spec ENTIRELY into magika and remain mostly unharmed by this change cause L2P newb right?

No sorry that's not fair and not balanced gameplay, magika has access to some of the best heals, buffs, damage, utility, and cc abilities in the game most of which while staying at range and out of immediate danger and all while not having to rely on an overly stressed resource pool. They need to address these issues and rethink this regen change while taking in more then "pve tanking is boring", they need to look at the effects in pvp, they need to look at the effects on stamina dps, and if not then they need to nerf magikas ass into the ground to compensate. Which btw as much as I hate magika (sorry I'm a 2 handed warrior at heart) I don't want them to do, I want them to make a real balanced change that will result in addressing the problem on both sides.

You make a solid point. And u apologize for coming off like a jerk. And formatting is bad cause I used my phone. I should specity the situation I was in to make that possible. I was in a group of about 12 and was not really single targeted. I will be doing more solo testing on the build today to see how long my stamina last in a situation where I am targeted. Also, I do apologize I specced 32 points into reduce block for what it is worth. That said, I completely agree that stamina builds took a hit in this patch again. The sustainability is much lower cause no sheilds,l increased. Ost etc. Although I do think that this does need to be addressed like you suggest I do beleive a L2P is also apllicable. For instance, on my stam nb I use siphoning attacks coupled with that new set that pros stamina and health. I do pretty well with that. Ofcourse that is just one build. Other stam builds I found myself using my enviromwnt more. For instance, not just simply dodgerolling but dodge rolling around a wall. As a stamina build in live I never locked unless no choice what so ever. I always used dodge roll. The dodgeroll nerf does not really effect me b/c I never really find myself in a situation to dodge more then 2 times. I would like to see more sustain for stamina. As it stands now magicka is easier but u don't not think of it as superior.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

kaorunandrak wrote: »

No sorry that's not fair and not balanced gameplay

Thank you @kaorunandrak for detailing one of the issues as you see it.

Your sentiments are also how I feel as a PVE tank when going into PVP. We tanks have to do very specific things for our builds and that includes specifications to champion points and attribute points.

Not only is it already difficult to go straight into PVP as anything other than a tank (because of those specifications we have to make), but the stamina regeneration nerf, as you point out, compounds the problem of needing to spread out resources in order to get good, but being less effective as a result of spreading out those resources.

In the end, this isn't just a nerf to stamina regeneration, it is a nerf to DPS abilities that cost stamina, it is a nerf to utility spells that cost stamina, it is a nerf to our attributes, it is a nerf to our champion points, it is a nerf to our gear, and no amount of adjusting can compensate for what is taken away.

It is also strange that the developers see this nerf as about to bring more fun and interaction to the game when that is the opposite of what the nerf is doing. They know nerfs are not fun and they claim to handle nerfs with "kid gloves," but they persist.

bowmanz607 · August 2015

Kerioko wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

This game is about freedom and playing the way you want. Caps don't sound like freedom. The game has become much better after they've finally removed these horrible caps. Pre 1.6, everything was clear: Everything into health.
Now you can choose to spend and increase them the way you like.

People want to get the maximum out of their character, they want to push their strenghts as much as possible. Few players appreciate a balanced build, which is still easier without softcaps.

With softcaps it was everything into health, without softcaps, its get 18-20K health then everything into primary stat and spam skill that does most damage. Without softcaps, there is no more freedom than there was with them. It has gotten to where you can stack certain things in such a way that dps is insane and there is not need for tanks or healers in some content. And those that do appreciate a balanced build, there is no room for them anymore because everything is about cookie cutter builds that get the highest dps parse to steam roll content.

While softcaps were not the greatest thing, getting rid of them created more problems (balance specific) then it fixed.

That's the problem. People think that there is one way to play. It is simply not true. You know who makes those cookie cutter builds right. The people that seek to maximize their playstyle and then post it. People then choose to follow that strategy b/c it was what popped up on google. Evry person has their own playstyle. You seek to maximize what you are trying to do not pthers. I could go a choose to use a deltia or sypher model and ya I maybe effective with it but that does not it mean it is the most effective way for me to play. Even sypher stated that you should seek to play the way that is comfortable to you. So although someone found a way to maximize their comfortability qith WHT they posted does not mean the same is true for me. The best players don't worry about cookie cutter builds but play a way that both is comfortable to them and makes them more effective based on their playstyle. For instance, if I practiced with sypher builds for awhile sure I would do weel, but when I face sypher he WI owne b/c that build is tailored to what he likes and how to maximize that. However, if I was to use a build I created which maximized my comfortability and playstyle I would stand a chance and do much better. There us no one build fits all and in the end the thing I always remember is tour playing the player not their toon. I always try to shock and awe the player I am facing. Using a cookie cutter build makes you more predictable and not suprising. Not to mention the are easy to identify. People like sypher make their builds available to others but the way the utilize it in combat is much different and much more creative then someone who is seeking to play outside their comfort zone.

Also, this idea of play as you want is true. The problem is that people seem to confuse play as you want with play as you want and be effective no matter what. Thing is you can play as you want but that does not mean you don't have weaknesses or draw backs. For instance, you state that you have troubles in pvp cause your specced to pve tank. Well your drawback is pvp viability. When I go from pvp to pve I do not expect to use the same setup. I change gear and skills etc. Another example I will use myself. I prefer bow and dw. I like to weaken them 1v1 with a bow and them close in with dw to pressure and go for a high burst combo seeking to kill utilizing dw e,tra damage to low health. The problem with my build is survivability. I have ni self heal without killing someone and being stam based I can knly use cloack so many times. If I use it touch I can't fear or buff or debuff. I recognize that my playstyle is harder to survive but I trade off for higher burst damage. I also recognize my weakness and use my bow to stay at a distance until I am ready to strike. Staying at a distance allows me an escape option and to control the fight more often then not. So although I could use a 2h cookie cutter build I prefer not to and am still just as effective if not more effective than people who use cookie cutters because that is how I am comfortable playing.

Anxileel · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

And how will getting rid of 100% of Stamina Regen whilst Blocking be good for the Long Term Health of the Game; care to give me details on why this extreme decision was made and how about a better idea since you guys are too stubborn to think in the middle of the percentage how about a reduction of 50% or less. LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY and stop being so vague in your descriptions.

bowmanz607 · August 2015

Anxileel wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

And how will getting rid of 100% of Stamina Regen whilst Blocking be good for the Long Term Health of the Game; care to give me details on why this extreme decision was made and how about a better idea since you guys are too stubborn to think in the middle of the percentage how about a reduction of 50% or less. LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY and stop being so vague in your descriptions.

They are listening to the community. The forums are but one means to do so and do not represent the thoughts of the community as a whole.

Anxileel · August 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Anxileel wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

And how will getting rid of 100% of Stamina Regen whilst Blocking be good for the Long Term Health of the Game; care to give me details on why this extreme decision was made and how about a better idea since you guys are too stubborn to think in the middle of the percentage how about a reduction of 50% or less. LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY and stop being so vague in your descriptions.

They are listening to the community. The forums are but one means to do so and do not represent the thoughts of the community as a whole.

I know that but they have written as if they Don't listen to the community at the same time.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Kerioko wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

This game is about freedom and playing the way you want. Caps don't sound like freedom. The game has become much better after they've finally removed these horrible caps. Pre 1.6, everything was clear: Everything into health.
Now you can choose to spend and increase them the way you like.

People want to get the maximum out of their character, they want to push their strenghts as much as possible. Few players appreciate a balanced build, which is still easier without softcaps.

With softcaps it was everything into health, without softcaps, its get 18-20K health then everything into primary stat and spam skill that does most damage. Without softcaps, there is no more freedom than there was with them. It has gotten to where you can stack certain things in such a way that dps is insane and there is not need for tanks or healers in some content. And those that do appreciate a balanced build, there is no room for them anymore because everything is about cookie cutter builds that get the highest dps parse to steam roll content.

While softcaps were not the greatest thing, getting rid of them created more problems (balance specific) then it fixed.

Thing is you can play as you want but that does not mean you don't have weaknesses or draw backs. For instance, you state that you have troubles in pvp cause your specced to pve tank. Well your drawback is pvp viability. When I go from pvp to pve I do not expect to use the same setup. I change gear and skills etc.

The developers have literally entitled players to be able to go straight from PVE to PVP and be just as effective.

"Just as effective." Those are the developers words. If that is what the developers want and that is what players want, then at what point do changes, which go against those wants, make sense?

bowmanz607 · August 2015

Anxileel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Anxileel wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

And how will getting rid of 100% of Stamina Regen whilst Blocking be good for the Long Term Health of the Game; care to give me details on why this extreme decision was made and how about a better idea since you guys are too stubborn to think in the middle of the percentage how about a reduction of 50% or less. LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY and stop being so vague in your descriptions.

They are listening to the community. The forums are but one means to do so and do not represent the thoughts of the community as a whole.

I know that but they have written as if they Don't listen to the community at the same time.

I would disagree. I mean 1.6 happened b/c of community feedback on the progression system. Stam abilities in class cause 9f community. Removing perma blocking, dodging, streak because community asked for. In fact they have seemed much more community responsive and involved since lambert took over. And it was not even bad before that.

Anxileel · August 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Anxileel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Anxileel wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

And how will getting rid of 100% of Stamina Regen whilst Blocking be good for the Long Term Health of the Game; care to give me details on why this extreme decision was made and how about a better idea since you guys are too stubborn to think in the middle of the percentage how about a reduction of 50% or less. LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY and stop being so vague in your descriptions.

They are listening to the community. The forums are but one means to do so and do not represent the thoughts of the community as a whole.

I know that but they have written as if they Don't listen to the community at the same time.

I would disagree. I mean 1.6 happened b/c of community feedback on the progression system. Stam abilities in class cause 9f community. Removing perma blocking, dodging, streak because community asked for. In fact they have seemed much more community responsive and involved since lambert took over. And it was not even bad before that.

Involved yes but not entirely since they are pretty much ignoring this issue until the deadline.

cjthibs · August 2015

Anxileel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Anxileel wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

And how will getting rid of 100% of Stamina Regen whilst Blocking be good for the Long Term Health of the Game; care to give me details on why this extreme decision was made and how about a better idea since you guys are too stubborn to think in the middle of the percentage how about a reduction of 50% or less. LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY and stop being so vague in your descriptions.

They are listening to the community. The forums are but one means to do so and do not represent the thoughts of the community as a whole.

I know that but they have written as if they Don't listen to the community at the same time.

Not listening ≠ not agreeing.

Anxileel · August 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

Anxileel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Anxileel wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

And how will getting rid of 100% of Stamina Regen whilst Blocking be good for the Long Term Health of the Game; care to give me details on why this extreme decision was made and how about a better idea since you guys are too stubborn to think in the middle of the percentage how about a reduction of 50% or less. LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY and stop being so vague in your descriptions.

They are listening to the community. The forums are but one means to do so and do not represent the thoughts of the community as a whole.

I know that but they have written as if they Don't listen to the community at the same time.

Not listening ≠ not agreeing.

Indeed

nimander99 · August 2015

Its going to be s-hit storm when it hits live, lol. Cant wait for the 5 million complaints in forums... my popcorn popper is primed.

Anxileel · August 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

Its going to be s-hit storm when it hits live, lol. Cant wait for the 5 million complaints in forums... my popcorn popper is primed.

If it happens change will happen quite quickly.

bowmanz607 · August 2015

Anxileel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Anxileel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Anxileel wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

And how will getting rid of 100% of Stamina Regen whilst Blocking be good for the Long Term Health of the Game; care to give me details on why this extreme decision was made and how about a better idea since you guys are too stubborn to think in the middle of the percentage how about a reduction of 50% or less. LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY and stop being so vague in your descriptions.

They are listening to the community. The forums are but one means to do so and do not represent the thoughts of the community as a whole.

I know that but they have written as if they Don't listen to the community at the same time.

I would disagree. I mean 1.6 happened b/c of community feedback on the progression system. Stam abilities in class cause 9f community. Removing perma blocking, dodging, streak because community asked for. In fact they have seemed much more community responsive and involved since lambert took over. And it was not even bad before that.

Involved yes but not entirely since they are pretty much ignoring this issue until the deadline.

Well that's the thing. I and many others do not think there is a major issue here. In fact agree with what wrobell said. Some tweaking but overall is good and not an issue to me and many orhers

kaorunandrak · August 2015

@bowmanz607 You also stated you tested on a magika build not a stamina. And wrobell and the other devs were playing stamina templars and magika builds during the lets play. Feeding off of spears the entire fight and showcasing how useless light and heavy attacking is in 1Vx situations and how useless magika heals are when your not setup to be magika. And other wise ignoring the stamina change.

Play how you want is their tag line they have flat out numerous times have said we should be able to play and build how we want and still be competitive in all aspects of game play PvE or PvP. Many of the people my self included who don't agree with this change do agree there needs to be some sort of change and have given some very well thought out suggestions to make a fair and balanced change that impacts both stamina and magika users while evenly and make tanking more tactical and block-casting a more risky venture.

Some of the suggestions have been:

Flat out remove block casting, no more turtle tanks, no more block spamming in pvp.
Massive increased cost to casting ALL abilities while blocking.
Massively reduced ability damage and healing(meaning heals you initiate) while blocking.
Adding a magika regen reduction to blocking as well to even the playing field.
Changing the way regen works from a 2 second regen to a one second regen so you have a reduced chance of being stuck in the no stamina zone.
Have the no regen while blocking simply PAUSE the regen timer instead of RESETTING the regen timer
Remove blocking from stamina and give it its own resource pool such as shield durability
Remove stamina abilities from stamina and give them their own resource pool thus keeping block/dodge/breakfree on it's own universally balanced pool.
Add immediate support for hybrid builds so they can be competitive and PvE and PVP
Add a stamina heal that doesn't require a particular team make up or character class.(Spell sym for Stamina users)
Enhancing heavy armor to mitigate more flat damage and cc's to reduce the need to block.And regain more resources for sustain ability.
Hard cap/soft cap block cost to encourage more tactical blocking
Have all abilities scale off of your highest character values regardless of your build stamina/magika so even if you can't cast many abilities of your non spec they are still at least meaningful to use and work in your build.

There are a lot more I have heard and seen but to be honest they all seem better then the current change in my eyes.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

not agreeing ≠ doing what is right

Anxileel wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Its going to be s-hit storm when it hits live, lol. Cant wait for the 5 million complaints in forums... my popcorn popper is primed.

If it happens change will happen quite quickly.

Remember the stealth nerf to tanking?

That was like a 3 day issue lol

bowmanz607 · August 2015

kaorunandrak wrote: »

You also stated you tested on a magika build not a
are you talking to me ? Yes I did. But again I was specced to do it and was rarely targeted cause was I'm group. Have no tested how long it lasts with getting directly hit. As for a stamina build I always thought blocking was a worse case scenario since I need that stamina for other things. Same with a magicka build not specced for it. Blocking was worse case scenario. As for a pure stamina tank like build...I have only heard feedback from guild is that are very effective at what they do. For pve content they were able to stack stamina and reduce cost and sill be effective using magicka taunts. For pvp it was still effective to a degree. They were able to block for sometime, but there is now drawback to it. For instance, if they were holding black they could for awhile but would have to do other things to get out of the situation cause they could not dk it forever. So instead of just sitting there infinitely holding block they could hold it for awhile until they found their opportunity to strike or get into a new better position. It forces perma blockers to utilize other mechanics but with still being able to rely on blocking for a lot of mitigation. Again, it makes people for active in combat which can knly make people and the game better. Also, there are sheilds such as the undaunted one that work well based on max gealth, so putting more into health will not only allow you to take more hits but also use sheilds in between blocks. He you can even block then cast sheilds then attack for a little while you regen some then block and repeat. J mean there are so many different ways to approach this new mechanic it just seems like many people on the forums complain are either not testing and complaining or are 5 eating their current builds on live and complaing. Or perhaps they are not throughly testing and are not putting in the work it requires to find what does work and basically give up cause they don't want to invest the time.

Sensesfail13 · August 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

Of course you are happy with the changes it is more than apparent that none of you actually play your own game. Look forward to a mass exodus of players following this patch, just like the 1.6 patch. Hope you enjoy your game of nerf bats now because sooner or later you wont have a job to swing them with.

unmmm really. 1.6 brought in a ton of people, so um ya no. apparently you think that everyone seems to think that this is a bad mechanic.based on the number of places in which ZoS gets their information from I find that it is a good balance of the player base that they listen too. with all the posts that start out like this one, there are just as many people in those posts supporting the change. moreover, it is way more common for people to yell on these forums about something they dont like then something they like. Your idead that everyone will just leave (and what the OP suggest) is based off the idea that the voices in the forums are the end all and be all of the eso community. that is simply wrong. in fact many players welcome the change. will it change builds...ofcourse it will. this is an mmo builds will constantly be changing an so will the game meta. if you do not like that then you are playing the wrong type of game. This allows for more active involvement in combat from the tanks in pve. this also opens the door for many new and diverse tanking builds along with new group mechanics while fighting in trials or DSA etc. for pvp, the change is obvious and stops perma-blocking. in fact, i tested out a magicka dk build with sword an board and i was able to block for sometime before my stamina was depleted and that was without using a potion or speccing anything into stamina. i only put about 20 points into reduce block cost. so, i can only imagine a tank actually specced out to block most of the time is able to do even with this change. moreover, in pve the bosses have animation ques for what and when the next attack will be. this gives time in between shots to stop blocking through in a light attack or heavy see the animation and block again. it really is not hat complicated it is all about timing. just as a dps needs to know th animations to be able to dodgeroll out of something before it hits you. the same idea is now spread to all roles. it requires higher situational awarness that is all. the people that will leave will do so b/c they are mad that their build and the way they learned to play will no longer work the same. that is ridiculous and i wouldnt want to play with those players anyway. many players will tweak or change their builds and practice those new uilds until they have what they want. 2 months down the road we wont even think twice about this change. good players will welcome the change and take on the opportunity to conquer a new challenge. other players it may take a little longer to figure out, but ultimately they will figure it out and it will become the norm. I ask you what is really the big issue here? you cant block forever? as it should be. it was a BS mechanic anyway. however, just as a perma-dodger can still spec to dodgeroll a hefty amount (way more then anyone needs), just as a perma-bolt escape player can still spec to bolt escape a ton (again way more than is needed), a perma-blocker can still well block for a long time (once again way more then is needed). except this time if you spec for those rolls, you will drasctically be lacking in other areas. this is how it should be. noone should be able to out dps another player while they are perma blocking. i will never get the outcry against this change. i welcome solid reasoning, but i have yet to find it. Bottom line is this makes the game much better all around, but wu=ill require some tweaking to get it right.

Show me the numbers because because my guild management tools dont lie and no numbers on incoming vs. outcoming players have been released by ZoS to my knowledge.

I wont even acknowledge the rest of the large run-on sentence after saying you tested out blocking on a magicka dk (WTF) and probably have never touched a trial or anything resembling a tank worthy experience. So Ill say this once, GTFO troll.

Dracane · August 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

hellkrasher wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

I like this, shows that ZOS knows what they want for the game, and will try to achive it no matter what. Every single change in the game will make some ppl happy and some not to so much. This change in particular i see it as needed for making tanking and overall defense been harder in pve and pvp.

ZOS, if you think this is the way, go for it, as you guys can make mistakes, we, the community, normally dont know what we really want, so go ahead and try it.

From Argentina i say to you all, keep the good work ^^. Have a nice day.

Well spooken *TOPIC CLOSED*

Oh because it's so hard to press three buttons to get 30k shields back up for defense? Seriously. What is wrong with you people. I want to scream. Literally. That there is so much self gain from 2 other classes. Amazing

Seriously think about the gap right now between DPS builds and tank builds in PVP right now. Blocking holds back the wave for a little then still crashes by. This makes it much worse now for survivability.

As they say. The rich get richer.

You want it harder in PVE fine. Go ahead. But for PVP as a tank since release I can tell you this is a killer for that play style.

Auri-El....
I made a joke O.o unbelieveable so many people feel offended. Have fun instead of being so negative.

bowmanz607 · August 2015

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

Of course you are happy with the changes it is more than apparent that none of you actually play your own game. Look forward to a mass exodus of players following this patch, just like the 1.6 patch. Hope you enjoy your game of nerf bats now because sooner or later you wont have a job to swing them with.

unmmm really. 1.6 brought in a ton of people, so um ya no. apparently you think that everyone seems to think that this is a bad mechanic.based on the number of places in which ZoS gets their information from I find that it is a good balance of the player base that they listen too. with all the posts that start out like this one, there are just as many people in those posts supporting the change. moreover, it is way more common for people to yell on these forums about something they dont like then something they like. Your idead that everyone will just leave (and what the OP suggest) is based off the idea that the voices in the forums are the end all and be all of the eso community. that is simply wrong. in fact many players welcome the change. will it change builds...ofcourse it will. this is an mmo builds will constantly be changing an so will the game meta. if you do not like that then you are playing the wrong type of game. This allows for more active involvement in combat from the tanks in pve. this also opens the door for many new and diverse tanking builds along with new group mechanics while fighting in trials or DSA etc. for pvp, the change is obvious and stops perma-blocking. in fact, i tested out a magicka dk build with sword an board and i was able to block for sometime before my stamina was depleted and that was without using a potion or speccing anything into stamina. i only put about 20 points into reduce block cost. so, i can only imagine a tank actually specced out to block most of the time is able to do even with this change. moreover, in pve the bosses have animation ques for what and when the next attack will be. this gives time in between shots to stop blocking through in a light attack or heavy see the animation and block again. it really is not hat complicated it is all about timing. just as a dps needs to know th animations to be able to dodgeroll out of something before it hits you. the same idea is now spread to all roles. it requires higher situational awarness that is all. the people that will leave will do so b/c they are mad that their build and the way they learned to play will no longer work the same. that is ridiculous and i wouldnt want to play with those players anyway. many players will tweak or change their builds and practice those new uilds until they have what they want. 2 months down the road we wont even think twice about this change. good players will welcome the change and take on the opportunity to conquer a new challenge. other players it may take a little longer to figure out, but ultimately they will figure it out and it will become the norm. I ask you what is really the big issue here? you cant block forever? as it should be. it was a BS mechanic anyway. however, just as a perma-dodger can still spec to dodgeroll a hefty amount (way more then anyone needs), just as a perma-bolt escape player can still spec to bolt escape a ton (again way more than is needed), a perma-blocker can still well block for a long time (once again way more then is needed). except this time if you spec for those rolls, you will drasctically be lacking in other areas. this is how it should be. noone should be able to out dps another player while they are perma blocking. i will never get the outcry against this change. i welcome solid reasoning, but i have yet to find it. Bottom line is this makes the game much better all around, but wu=ill require some tweaking to get it right.

Show me the numbers because because my guild management tools dont lie and no numbers on incoming vs. outcoming players have been released by ZoS to my knowledge.

I wont even acknowledge the rest of the large run-on sentence after saying you tested out blocking on a magicka dk (WTF) and probably have never touched a trial or anything resembling a tank worthy experience. So Ill say this once, GTFO troll.

I mean it was pretty obvious the increase in players when 1.6 dropped. If you were anywhere in the game you realized the amount of players that came to the game. I mean that was straight up a large boost in player base whether it was returning players or new players the point is it was a large increase when it dropped. you would have had to be living under a rock not to notice. That said, i was stictly talking about the rise in 1.6 when it dropped not sustained after. I have also noticed a drop in the player base recently, but lets put that in perspective. it is summer here in NA, so less people will be playing b/c of vacations and you know being outdoors. Not to mention, many players are testing the PTS so you will see a reduction. and ofcourse there is no firm numbers b.c like you said ZOS never released them. it is strictly being in the game since beta and noticing the rise and fall and rise and fall of the player base. I mean just play the game to find out.

I would also like to state that i apologize for the formatting but its harder when on a phone so i mean whatever read it or not your choice.

and yes i did test it out that way. i also mentioned in a later comment the situation i was in while testing it. I by no means think this is the only way to test it, but it is one build in which i mentioned that i tested it. My point for stating that was even as a magicka build with like 9k stamina, 500 regen, and 32 points in blocking i was able to block for sometime while in that particular scenario. so before you jump down my throat and call me a troll please try to understand the context i was speaking.

I also, later stated that I did not notice much of a difference as a stamina build dps or magicka build dps w/o points specced into it or sword and board. I stated this is largely do to the fact that a dps build should only use blocking as a last resort or when dodging would put you too out of position to counter strike. a dps and healer should not be relying on block, but dodge roll to escape most of the time (at least imo) beacuse even in live it is costly.

I then went onto say in another comment that i have not tested a full tank build. the knowledge that I have comes from my guildmates who are very good at what they do. This includes trial testing and pvp. Please see above to read my comments on that b/c i do not want to repeat. furthermore, deltia and his crew has also stated that tanking really is not so bad once you figure out the new mechanics, so you dont have to take my word for it out check out his video.

Lastly, these are simply my opinions based on what I have tested so far and the feedback that I have gotten from guildmates and friends who play this game. ofcourse i have not tested every little thing. it is up to us as a community to do that. I am simplying letting the community know what i have tested and heard about and gave my opinions on the topic while telling you opinons of others. It was simply to show that not all of us hate this new change and to try to inform the community of differnet work arounds that i have and others have done to help. do i expect that everyone shares this opinion...no. Before you go running on and on about how i am a troll look at what you did. You essentially stated that you dont believe my opinion w/o contributing anything meaningful to this conversation in hopes of belittleing me i guess....that my friend is a troll.

I have no problem getting into a logical and well reasoned debate about our thoughts, but come on really?

Personofsecrets · August 2015

Here is the state of a guild that USED TO HAVE GUILD TALKS with ZOS.

bowmanz607 · August 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Here is the state of a guild that USED TO HAVE GUILD TALKS with ZOS.

Sorry about that. my guild is currently 475 strong and has talks with the devs also. we have an inactive policy of 10 days and usaully about 50-75 memebrs on at any time. Our sister guild we started to take our overflow is about 250 strong with about 40-50 active at any time. so perhaps there is a problem with the recruting.

TheBonesXXX · August 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

stuff

No changes to PvE, but you actively voice your opinion about TV stones in your signature, if you had credibility, it's gone now.

Infinite resources while mitigating tons of damage doesn't make sense and the change is a correction in a really bad design flaw. Having a high amount of health, spell resist, and armor while blocking major attacks does make sense however.

They are changing a lot of design flaws in this game, this is a major one with many to come. Managing resources in this should have been paramount from the start.

Stalwart385 · August 2015

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

stuff

No changes to PvE, but you actively voice your opinion about TV stones in your signature, if you had credibility, it's gone now.

Infinite resources while mitigating tons of damage doesn't make sense and the change is a correction in a really bad design flaw. Having a high amount of health, spell resist, and armor while blocking major attacks does make sense however.

They are changing a lot of design flaws in this game, this is a major one with many to come. Managing resources in this should have been paramount from the start.

Yet they designed the game without this from the start. Leading to this being a hack that fits poorly into the game.