Come on ZoS, look at all the posts! 0 Stam regen while blocking will ruin this game!

Rayste · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

Well said.

hellkrasher · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

I like this, shows that ZOS knows what they want for the game, and will try to achive it no matter what. Every single change in the game will make some ppl happy and some not to so much. This change in particular i see it as needed for making tanking and overall defense been harder in pve and pvp.

ZOS, if you think this is the way, go for it, as you guys can make mistakes, we, the community, normally dont know what we really want, so go ahead and try it.

From Argentina i say to you all, keep the good work ^^. Have a nice day.

rfennell_ESO · August 2015

There are a fair number of sets that give a stamina return to mitigate the loss of regen while holding a button down perpetually.

Then again this is probably a false flag operation, with all the pvpers that tape down their right mouse button pretending to be pve players.

Reality is not only should stamina regen be zero while blocking, it should drain your stamina over time.

Lefty_Lucy · August 2015

I'm extremely happy with the changes to block. Still able to tank in both PvP and PvE.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

Lefty_Lucy wrote: »

I'm extremely happy with the changes to block. Still able to tank in both PvP and PvE.

You are also a very good player @Lefty_Lucy . What kind of changes have you personally made to how you play? In what ways are you having more fun?

Personofsecrets · August 2015

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

There are a fair number of sets that give a stamina return to mitigate the loss of regen while holding a button down perpetually.

Then again this is probably a false flag operation, with all the pvpers that tape down their right mouse button pretending to be pve players.

Reality is not only should stamina regen be zero while blocking, it should drain your stamina over time.

Isn't it funny that reality is only setting in now?

Personofsecrets · August 2015

hellkrasher wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

I like this, shows that ZOS knows what they want for the game, and will try to achive it no matter what. Every single change in the game will make some ppl happy and some not to so much. This change in particular i see it as needed for making tanking and overall defense been harder in pve and pvp.

ZOS, if you think this is the way, go for it, as you guys can make mistakes, we, the community, normally dont know what we really want, so go ahead and try it.

From Argentina i say to you all, keep the good work ^^. Have a nice day.

Even no matter what half of their constituency doesn't want! Woo hoo!

J2JMC · August 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Also, a quick idea. I think ZOS should make forum accounts somehow linked to character account. So next to your post, it would display for example highest PVP rank out of all characters on account and classes of characters. A dedicated PVPer should not be allowed to complain and bash people who are against change that ruins PVE. A person who completed every dungeon 100 times + should not be allowed to complain that "old content is too easy".
A simple thing like that would reveal who actually is for this change (And then what selfish motives are driving them) and who actually cares for it and his feedback is viable.
Same should go to in game /feedback, whoever processes it should have information along the feedback, what is player profile of person who sends it.

I agree. I also think it should show CP so people with a lot of CP won't show up in threads saying CP isn't an issue. /s

Wing · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

TL:DR: get rekt

xaraan · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

You're wrong.

Wing · August 2015

xaraan wrote: »

You're wrong.

agreed

GCVDJ11T · August 2015

Guys you really need to try it. We 11 man cleared Hel Ra HM on the PTS. Our tank said he has to make a few adjustments but overall he said it wasn't that bad. It is an adjustment. I'm a hard core block caster and I'm not gonna lie it really made me pay attention not having to be block lazy, but even that wasn't that bad.

xaraan · August 2015

I've spoken with a lot of players that get to give 'guild feedback' and some of it is a little lacking in what they know, even more so now that a lot of major guilds have left the game and you guys seem to pick and choose who you listen to if they don't talk to you nicely enough. (Not the best way to run a business)

If player feedback requires someone throwing spearshards - then that's a broken mechanic as you are excluding players that don't have a templar on their team. If player feedback says the dungeons are easy to run and they aren't talking vet mode of the two new ones, then the feedback is horrible b/c all the four man dungeons are a walk in the park, even scaled up and can be three-manned usually (we even two manned one) - those aren't real tests. If feedback comes from a tank that plays one class in tanking over others, then the feedback again is lacking as it doesn't take into consideration not getting stamina return from particular class skills used. Let's talk pvp instead: If I get knocked down in pvp after lifting my shield up to block a particular attack - then your game is broken and me being forced to hold the shield up constantly for protection is a necessity of that broken game. Heavy armor doesn't mitigation a lot of damage on its own with all the armor pen in the game now, so blocking is a necessity when you are getting swarmed, which will now make it easier to zerg someone down - oh, but you don't listen to all the feedback about the zerging in the game, just the little seen feedback about stam while blocking (which was never a big feedback issue).

And you're happy with the change?? How would you know what works well in the game? Really? I mean, c'mon, we've seen you guys play. Let's see you 4-man one of the new vet dungeons on hard mode without being carried by players and tell me how well your tank does. Frankly, I've done the content. It's do-able on the top end and it's also annoying and not really fun. If I'm not having fun, I'm not going to be playing a tank roll anymore. As time goes on, more and more parts of this game get less interesting.

xaraan · August 2015

Also, what this is going to do is make stam regen as important as health regen for tanks - as in - not important.

Do you know why health regen was a horrible bonus to get? Because you needed to be healed in order for it to make a difference in whether you lived or died - whether your health regen was 300 or 600 wouldn't make a difference in that scenerio.

You've done that for tanks now with stam. So now, only magicka regen is important for tanking because you have to rely on non-regen methods to recover both stam and health effectively.

So, yeah - great job making a game with even less variety in high-end builds.

Wing · August 2015

by trying to get people to block less all your doing is forcing them further into blocking, now instead of spending stamina on skills to help the group they are saving all stamina for blocking, same with enchants, people are simply going deeper into block cost reduction because every scrap of it matters now. you thought all people did was taunt and hold block? they didn't, but they sure as hell will now.

you should have made tanking without using block viable, instead of trying to make blocking less viable, and you didn't even do that right, you attacked stamina regen instead of blocking itself, and that will punish more then just tanks.

blank face golf clap, way to go.

Xsorus · August 2015

It breaks stamina based block tanks while making magicka based ones vastly superior, how anyone who's played this game for any amount of time doesn't see this boggles my mind

olemanwinter · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

I understand the PvP justification for this change. I understand what needed fixing and I AGREE it did need fixing. And if that fixes that specific problem then it is definitely a "really good thing for the long term health of"....PVP.

Not "the game" imo.

This company needs to seriously rethink it's dedication to attempting to balance the entire game, PvP and PvE, with a single wide brush.

All the people saying this is a positive change for PvE were not calling for it before it was announced. There were no (that I saw) threads of people complaining about boring tanking.

That's become a "TALKING POINT" designed to ensure the PvP change remains in effect.

This is a positive change for PvP at the expense of PvE, which would be understandable if there was some reason why they had to be treated the same.....but they don't.

Xsorus · August 2015

It's going to make pve tanking more annoying, I guarentee that they'll be forced to Change it back after it goes live due to complaints.

kaorunandrak · August 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

I understand the PvP justification for this change. I understand what needed fixing and I AGREE it did need fixing. And if that fixes that specific problem then it is definitely a "really good thing for the long term health of"....PVP.

Not "the game" imo.

This company needs to seriously rethink it's dedication to attempting to balance the entire game, PvP and PvE, with a single wide brush.

All the people saying this is a positive change for PvE were not calling for it before it was announced. There were no (that I saw) threads of people complaining about boring tanking.

That's become a "TALKING POINT" designed to ensure the PvP change remains in effect.

This is a positive change for PvP at the expense of PvE, which would be understandable if there was some reason why they had to be treated the same.....but they don't.

It's a positive change in PVP if you wear robes and cast spells, but not if you swing a weapon around. You are going to have to spec into a more hybrid build and lose overall lethality to try to survive in any exchange when compared to a pure magika caster. Until they have full support for hybrid builds that bridge the gap better a change like this should not be going in. And most people against this change have suggested a plethora of different alternatives that would still meet their end goals while not impacting stamina users negatively.

Lionxoft · August 2015

Bashev wrote: »

Apokh wrote: »

For most Dungeons you don´t even need a dedicated Tank now...

Of course you dont need when you play with your friends which know all mechanics and they are geared. I also have friends and play with them and it is easy. But have you tried to get 3 random players and try a dungeon when 2 of them are new?

Getting a group of randoms should spell disaster. Pick up groups should be struggling. Group end game content is good when it takes teamwork to accomplish.

KerinKor · August 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror

If the nerf makes tanking more fun, then why don't we feel that way? Why have we pointed out the reasons that it makes tanking less fun?

If the nerf makes tanking more interactive, then why don't we feel that way? Why have we pointed out the reasons that it makes tanking less interactive?

If you developers are happy with the change, then why don't many of us tanks feel that way? Why are you happy with something that many players are not happy with?

If you developers are open to feedback and the nerf isn't set in stone, then why will you, at most, only be making minor adjustments to the nerf? Why are any of us here giving feedback to you at all?

You obviously aren't looking at 'fun' the way ZOS do, please adjust your viewpoint.

Dracane · August 2015

hellkrasher wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

I like this, shows that ZOS knows what they want for the game, and will try to achive it no matter what. Every single change in the game will make some ppl happy and some not to so much. This change in particular i see it as needed for making tanking and overall defense been harder in pve and pvp.

ZOS, if you think this is the way, go for it, as you guys can make mistakes, we, the community, normally dont know what we really want, so go ahead and try it.

From Argentina i say to you all, keep the good work ^^. Have a nice day.

Well spooken

*TOPIC CLOSED*

I_killed_Vivec · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

hellkrasher wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

I like this, shows that ZOS knows what they want for the game, and will try to achive it no matter what. Every single change in the game will make some ppl happy and some not to so much. This change in particular i see it as needed for making tanking and overall defense been harder in pve and pvp.

ZOS, if you think this is the way, go for it, as you guys can make mistakes, we, the community, normally dont know what we really want, so go ahead and try it.

From Argentina i say to you all, keep the good work ^^. Have a nice day.

Well spooken *TOPIC CLOSED*

Really need that LOL button...

Wing · August 2015

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Well spooken *TOPIC CLOSED*

Really need that LOL button...

so bad

Hektik_V · August 2015

Playing the PTS it was far too easy to just run me out of stamina via unblockable CC as well as high burst abilities such as wrecking blow that I would have to block. Instead of just balancing the abilities that are overpowered, we get these giant gameplay adjustments literally every major patch.

Sensesfail13 · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

Of course you are happy with the changes it is more than apparent that none of you actually play your own game. Look forward to a mass exodus of players following this patch, just like the 1.6 patch. Hope you enjoy your game of nerf bats now because sooner or later you wont have a job to swing them with.

Sensesfail13 · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

It is indeed healthy for the game. Nobody expects everyone to be fine with this change and everyone has to adjust his/her playstyle to adapt to this change. But it is not impossible.
There are great tools, snyergies, sets and abilities that players can use, that weren't used that much until now. This is a direct buff for many things in the game. Just like the Bolt Escape and roll dodge change was a rather indirect buff for some abilities.

You guys also introduced an interesting set together with this change, the Black Rose set which sounds incredibly strong and should support blocking. I even think, with all the available tools together, permablocking can still be possible, it only requires more sacrifises.

@KerinKor They don't need to justify this change, as it is obvious why they had to make this change.

They dont need to justify it, they need to not implement it. Its like the theory of time traveling they step on and kill a flower and in the future it has huge unintended repercussions. They keep implementing these massive game changing patches attempting to fix the massive list of problems that they made in 1.6, rather than an incremental change over time, causing the game dynamics to change completely. Not only this but they also make changes that are head scratchingly stupid not just for the classes effected but for EVERYBODY. Personally, I am even more angry because DK has been getting the shaft since the game was released and it only keeps getting worse along with legacy problems that arent even addressed such as useless passives and skills for every class and our self heal which was supposedly the most powerful skill ( vigor and rally were both highly superior to anything gdb or coagulated could do as well as the stam regen from gdb doesnt stack with POTIONS ).

Some of the changes in this patch I am looking forward to are the tel var stone system, I mean finally a token system, but they are even screwing that up making it a gank and flee paradise in imperial city feeding the zerg mentality lets all have fun getting wrecked by 30+ people taking your stones.

They just cant seem to make a win for people that is why there are continued arguments and troll posts all over the forums and lets not get it twisted the only people that are even partially happy about this patch are the idiots too thickheaded to learn how to play their classes resulting in them blaming it on the game, or the people with ulterior motives that just like to see people suffer for the sake of suffering.

Im giving this patch a chance, I made it through the farce that is 1.6 as my dk but I will just gain time to apply to other things in my life if I am forced to leave due to bad game management Ive already had over 1/2 of my friends and guildmates quit the game I can only see it getting worse with these changes.

Stalwart385 · August 2015

No stam regen for tanks and health regen is already the least used stat in the game. Mana regen is a tanks go to for sustaining block now. Cant imagine this was their original vision. My guess is this wont last long if it goes live. I'll focus on leveling and gearing my sorc for a while till we see the end result. I'll tank when needed but I dont want to go making sets just for something to change.

Darnathian · August 2015

Etharian wrote: »

LazyLewis wrote: »

Playing this game in every class and every style since day 1 I will go down on paper and say getting rid of Stam Regen while blocking will destroy this game and is the biggest nerf this game has ever faced. PvE and PvP both. Look at all the forums posts, look at everything everyone has being say since PTS was released. Please please don't do this.

LOL looka t the posts? like it or not... you guys are the minority. trying to spam post about stam regen.

You are what? 10 ppl here posting? there are what? thousands of ppl that do not even come here that would probably disagree with you.

So yes ZOS stand your ground, stick with your changes!

Probably? Nice argument.

bowmanz607 · August 2015

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Couple things:
We understand this is topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart. It will take some adjustment from certain play styles that some of you have grown accustomed to.

We look at feedback from multiple places. (/feedback, /bug, social media, other websites, guild meetings...etc) Not just forum posts.

Like Eric has said a few times, we're pretty happy with the change - there might be some tweaks, but overall this is something we feel is a really good thing for the long term health of the game.

Of course you are happy with the changes it is more than apparent that none of you actually play your own game. Look forward to a mass exodus of players following this patch, just like the 1.6 patch. Hope you enjoy your game of nerf bats now because sooner or later you wont have a job to swing them with.

unmmm really. 1.6 brought in a ton of people, so um ya no. apparently you think that everyone seems to think that this is a bad mechanic.based on the number of places in which ZoS gets their information from I find that it is a good balance of the player base that they listen too. with all the posts that start out like this one, there are just as many people in those posts supporting the change. moreover, it is way more common for people to yell on these forums about something they dont like then something they like. Your idead that everyone will just leave (and what the OP suggest) is based off the idea that the voices in the forums are the end all and be all of the eso community. that is simply wrong. in fact many players welcome the change. will it change builds...ofcourse it will. this is an mmo builds will constantly be changing an so will the game meta. if you do not like that then you are playing the wrong type of game. This allows for more active involvement in combat from the tanks in pve. this also opens the door for many new and diverse tanking builds along with new group mechanics while fighting in trials or DSA etc. for pvp, the change is obvious and stops perma-blocking. in fact, i tested out a magicka dk build with sword an board and i was able to block for sometime before my stamina was depleted and that was without using a potion or speccing anything into stamina. i only put about 20 points into reduce block cost. so, i can only imagine a tank actually specced out to block most of the time is able to do even with this change. moreover, in pve the bosses have animation ques for what and when the next attack will be. this gives time in between shots to stop blocking through in a light attack or heavy see the animation and block again. it really is not hat complicated it is all about timing. just as a dps needs to know th animations to be able to dodgeroll out of something before it hits you. the same idea is now spread to all roles. it requires higher situational awarness that is all. the people that will leave will do so b/c they are mad that their build and the way they learned to play will no longer work the same. that is ridiculous and i wouldnt want to play with those players anyway. many players will tweak or change their builds and practice those new uilds until they have what they want. 2 months down the road we wont even think twice about this change. good players will welcome the change and take on the opportunity to conquer a new challenge. other players it may take a little longer to figure out, but ultimately they will figure it out and it will become the norm. I ask you what is really the big issue here? you cant block forever? as it should be. it was a BS mechanic anyway. however, just as a perma-dodger can still spec to dodgeroll a hefty amount (way more then anyone needs), just as a perma-bolt escape player can still spec to bolt escape a ton (again way more than is needed), a perma-blocker can still well block for a long time (once again way more then is needed). except this time if you spec for those rolls, you will drasctically be lacking in other areas. this is how it should be. noone should be able to out dps another player while they are perma blocking. i will never get the outcry against this change. i welcome solid reasoning, but i have yet to find it. Bottom line is this makes the game much better all around, but wu=ill require some tweaking to get it right.