Major bug still in 2.1.1 +healing on self doubled in PVP areas

glavius · August 2015

Basically anything with +healing on self doesn't get affected by the battle spirit heal debuff.
Fix is important before it goes to live or we will see builds with insane healing.

glavius · August 2015

Rapid mending heavy armor passive
Argonian racial
Malubeth set
Quick recovery champ ability
+healing armor set bonuses

Possibly a few other things I haven't tested.

ScruffyWhiskers · August 2015

I don't know that it should to be honest. Take Swallow Soul. You get a +8% healing received bonus if you have it slotted. Let's say your buddy healer waves his or her magic healing stick and heals you for 1000. Battle spirit buff (ha, ha, ha) then cuts that in half. So 500 healing will be applied. Now your swallow soul should give you a magnificent 8% bonus to that 500 which equals 40 . So you get 540 healing from the stick shake. You want to cut the 40 in half and make it 20? Maybe i'm not reading your post correctly?

The big problem with these global dial adjustments is a huge lack of transparency for players and therefore a barrier to learning the game systems. You should be able to easily grok the game mechanics from the tool tips. Numbers on tool tips right now in PvP are mysterious and confusing. With a 20% modifier you could get away with this to some extent. Who is going to notice 600 points here or there? At this point though they have pulled the curtain around the great and powerful wizard and it's hard to peek inside.

Rook_Master · August 2015

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I don't know that it should to be honest. Take Swallow Soul. You get a +8% healing received bonus if you have it slotted. Let's say your buddy healer waves his or her magic healing stick and heals you for 1000. Battle spirit buff (ha, ha, ha) then cuts that in half. So 500 healing will be applied. Now your swallow soul should give you a magnificent 8% bonus to that 500 which equals 40 . So you get 540 healing from the stick shake. You want to cut the 40 in half and make it 20? Maybe i'm not reading your post correctly?

The big problem with these global dial adjustments is a huge lack of transparency for players and therefore a barrier to learning the game systems. You should be able to easily grok the game mechanics from the tool tips. Numbers on tool tips right now in PvP are mysterious and confusing. With a 20% modifier you could get away with this to some extent. Who is going to notice 600 points here or there? At this point though they have pulled the curtain around the great and powerful wizard and it's hard to peek inside.

Your math has actually proven to be wrong by people testing the PTS.

Percentage increases and decreases are additive. The order of operations matters.

So for 1000 healing, instead of:

(1 + .08)(1000*(.5)) = 540

You have:

1000*(.5+.08) = 580

This is actually a better return, and that is why now people are loading up on +% healing bonuses from CP and sets.

glavius · August 2015

100 points in quick recovery=16%. That means if you do a 100 value heal it should do 116 healing.
What really happens is it does 132 healing. (in PVP areas)
That means 100 points in that champ passive alone increases healing by 32%, which if you stack with 100 points in champ passive blessed for another 25% (this passive works as intended)
Now you suddenly have someone healing himself 57% more if he grinded alot of champ points, compared to someone who didn't.
In my book thats a pretty huge imbalance.

Now stack this with malubeth set, igneous shield or one of the other abilities that provide +incoming heals and nothing will be able to kill you 1 vs 1.

Rook_Master · August 2015

glavius wrote: »

100 points in quick recovery=16%. That means if you do a 100 value heal it should do 116 healing.
What really happens is it does 132 healing. (in PVP areas)
That means 100 points in that champ passive alone increases healing by 32%, which if you stack with 100 points in champ passive blessed for another 25% (this passive works as intended)
Now you suddenly have someone healing himself 57% more if he grinded alot of champ points, compared to someone who didn't.
In my book thats a pretty huge imbalance.

Now stack this with malubeth set, igneous shield or one of the other abilities that provide +incoming heals and nothing will be able to kill you 1 vs 1.

It seems you misunderstand the math as well.

If you have 100 CP in quick recovery, 16% increase to healing.

Then in Cyrodiil, if you do 1000 base points of healing, it will be:

1000*(.50 + .16)
1000*.66
660

The healing is not 'doubled', it is simply the order of operations not being done in the way it is implied in the descriptions. How the average person is supposed to comprehend that, and how you are supposed to test this on the PTS without addons, you have to ask ZOS.

ScruffyWhiskers · August 2015

Ah ok. Sorry I misread your post. I'm sure they will fix this. Since it's intuitively what you would expect. Probably just a misplaced parenthesis in the code

Point remains though that these math acrobatics imposed by the rather inelegant battle spirit (de)buff are impediments to good game design and game play.

glavius · August 2015

I understand how it's calculated. But it's a huge imbalance factor that will favor people with lots of champ points greatly.

Wreuntzylla · August 2015

glavius wrote: »

I understand how it's calculated. But it's a huge imbalance factor that will favor people with lots of champ points greatly.

And Argonians. But haven't we suffered enough?

I was thinking something like this for an Argonian Templar:

5pc Twilight's Embrace: 10% healing taken
5pc Healer's Habit: 8% increased Heals
2pc Scourge Harvester: 30% healing taken while procced beam holds
Quick to Mend: 9% healing taken
Quick Recovery: 15.8% healing taken at 100 points
Restoring Focus: 8% healing taken

So, about 72% when scourge procs.

Assuming no diminishing returns:

1000*(.50 + .72)
1000*1.22
1220

Twilights embrace bonuses are not terrible and healer's habit are great. Does scourge harvester still proc off of caltrops?

Of course, probably better to go to 10% in quick recovery (about 50 points) and put points into resists, etc.

Edit: Healer's Habit 8% not factored in.

Kartalin · August 2015

Rook_Master wrote: »

It seems you misunderstand the math as well.

If you have 100 CP in quick recovery, 16% increase to healing.

Then in Cyrodiil, if you do 1000 base points of healing, it will be:

1000*(.50 + .16)
1000*.66
660

The healing is not 'doubled', it is simply the order of operations not being done in the way it is implied in the descriptions. How the average person is supposed to comprehend that, and how you are supposed to test this on the PTS without addons, you have to ask ZOS.

660 is 32% more than the 500 healing that would have been received without quick recovery.