Imperial City - Why should we pay for content we may not be able to access?

sagitter · August 2015

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

Apparently your alliance has to have a certain number of keeps to get into the Imperial city. If you don't happen to have access to the right buff server, you won't be able to get to the content you paid for.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202328/there-cannot-be-access-gates-to-the-imperial-city-paid-dlc#latest

Does this seem wrong to anyone else? What is the point of this? I understand this is supposed to be a "hardcore PvP" expansion, but how many people are going to pay for content they can be locked out from?

If all 3 sides have access at the same time (like on PTS right now) it is just a gank fest and nothing PVE wise can even be accomplished. But when you add the control mechanics of alliances locking out other alliances the PVE inside actually becomes controlled and things can be done and accomplished inside. Yes your side maybe locked out at times BUT when you do have access you can go there and actually get stuff done. PVPwise it is also better because the enemy alliance zergs get killed off and the only fighting you will encounter is small skirmishes that are much more balanced.

This system was done in Darkage of Camelot with an allianced controlled Dungeon called Darkness Falls and the system worked very well and was the best experience I ever had in an MMO. It gave you a valuable prize to fight over on the battle field.

So what you're saying is that in order to access the content you have paid for, you have to spend hours in Cyrodiil trying to get the requisite number of keeps, and then you'll have access to PvE rewards since someone else will get locked put. This seems to be a recurring theme with ZoS' game design: forcing players to spend a painful amount of time on things they don't want in order to get to things they do want.

This makes no sense since this is supposed to be a PvP update. I understand that IC is a gank fest right now, that's the way the content is designed. It's supposed to encourage smaller scale PvP, not offer a PvE reward for PvP griefing. How many PvPers are going to say "Thank goodness we have Cyrodiil locked down, now I can PvE in the IC in peace." Very few. The PvPers want PvP, not another PvE zone (which is all IC is when you lock out the other alliances).

Nothing about this makes any sense. Pay for content that you can't always access (which is a factor to people who have jobs / school / family / IRL obligations), having to spend hours of time to even attempt to get that access, needing to be opportunistically available for when the access is available, all for the privilege of what is nothing more than another PvE zone because you've locked the other alliances out.

I've played the IC content, it's a well designed environment that is fun enough when you're in the mood for a gank fest. There needs to be a rethink about the fundamental premise and availability. Another PvE zone is not a reward the PvPers want, and many players don't have the time to invest in PvP to get to that PvE content. Additionally, this is supposed to be a PvP update, where is the second 'p' when they've been locked out of the content?

First you dont get to have everything when you want it just because you paid for it. You paid for the game but you cant just go to any zone right away just because you want to. You cant have legendary gear just because you want it. Like everything else in teh game you have to work towards it and earn it. The IC is no different your working towards it with your alliance and trying to get it as a reward.

Having access to IC is a reward for winning in Cyrodiil. Its an accomplishment, something to aim. An actual reason to hold your home keeps in Cyrodiil. It gives purpose and makes things exciting. When you can actually lose something it makes it more important and special to you. When you do lose it there is balancing mechanic in place to help you get it back. Your HOME territory and the enemy allaince losing half their army to access the IC.

Paid content.... Your paying for the oppurtunity to compete for the prize of the IC just like you compete, level, farm and work for everything else in the game. When your side has access to IC you can go there. When you dont have access you can try to get it back and help your alliance or just go do something else while you wait for your alliance to get it back, Your NOT" forces to spend hours of time". Its not like the game stops for you just because you dont have IC access.......

You want 24/7 access to the IC, which sounds good. But trust me its not. You can go there 24/7 but you cant get anything done. You know how hard it is to do the PVE content or farm stones with enemy zergs coming around the corner every 2 minutes and you lose all your stones each time. You want access to your paid content fine, but you will never get to do it. and no PVE players will ever go there. Now you have the system where you fight for control. Yes you will not have access alot of times BUT when you do you can actually do the content. its very simple. Fight in Cyrodiil, do Trials, vet dungeons, gather, whatever But eventually you will see the message that your alliance has IC access, now its exciting! you can go there and clear out the enemy, you can do the content, and farm stones. its actually an adrenaline rush and can even change your plans for the night.

You steal words from my mouth +1

Mighty_oakk · August 2015

I'm guessing after a few days of mayhem it will return to how it is now with buff campaigns.

firstdecan · August 2015

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

Apparently your alliance has to have a certain number of keeps to get into the Imperial city. If you don't happen to have access to the right buff server, you won't be able to get to the content you paid for.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202328/there-cannot-be-access-gates-to-the-imperial-city-paid-dlc#latest

Does this seem wrong to anyone else? What is the point of this? I understand this is supposed to be a "hardcore PvP" expansion, but how many people are going to pay for content they can be locked out from?

If all 3 sides have access at the same time (like on PTS right now) it is just a gank fest and nothing PVE wise can even be accomplished. But when you add the control mechanics of alliances locking out other alliances the PVE inside actually becomes controlled and things can be done and accomplished inside. Yes your side maybe locked out at times BUT when you do have access you can go there and actually get stuff done. PVPwise it is also better because the enemy alliance zergs get killed off and the only fighting you will encounter is small skirmishes that are much more balanced.

This system was done in Darkage of Camelot with an allianced controlled Dungeon called Darkness Falls and the system worked very well and was the best experience I ever had in an MMO. It gave you a valuable prize to fight over on the battle field.

So what you're saying is that in order to access the content you have paid for, you have to spend hours in Cyrodiil trying to get the requisite number of keeps, and then you'll have access to PvE rewards since someone else will get locked put. This seems to be a recurring theme with ZoS' game design: forcing players to spend a painful amount of time on things they don't want in order to get to things they do want.

This makes no sense since this is supposed to be a PvP update. I understand that IC is a gank fest right now, that's the way the content is designed. It's supposed to encourage smaller scale PvP, not offer a PvE reward for PvP griefing. How many PvPers are going to say "Thank goodness we have Cyrodiil locked down, now I can PvE in the IC in peace." Very few. The PvPers want PvP, not another PvE zone (which is all IC is when you lock out the other alliances).

Nothing about this makes any sense. Pay for content that you can't always access (which is a factor to people who have jobs / school / family / IRL obligations), having to spend hours of time to even attempt to get that access, needing to be opportunistically available for when the access is available, all for the privilege of what is nothing more than another PvE zone because you've locked the other alliances out.

I've played the IC content, it's a well designed environment that is fun enough when you're in the mood for a gank fest. There needs to be a rethink about the fundamental premise and availability. Another PvE zone is not a reward the PvPers want, and many players don't have the time to invest in PvP to get to that PvE content. Additionally, this is supposed to be a PvP update, where is the second 'p' when they've been locked out of the content?

First you dont get to have everything when you want it just because you paid for it. You paid for the game but you cant just go to any zone right away just because you want to. You cant have legendary gear just because you want it. Like everything else in teh game you have to work towards it and earn it. The IC is no different your working towards it with your alliance and trying to get it as a reward.

Having access to IC is a reward for winning in Cyrodiil. Its an accomplishment, something to aim. An actual reason to hold your home keeps in Cyrodiil. It gives purpose and makes things exciting. When you can actually lose something it makes it more important and special to you. When you do lose it there is balancing mechanic in place to help you get it back. Your HOME territory and the enemy allaince losing half their army to access the IC.

Paid content.... Your paying for the oppurtunity to compete for the prize of the IC just like you compete, level, farm and work for everything else in the game. When your side has access to IC you can go there. When you dont have access you can try to get it back and help your alliance or just go do something else while you wait for your alliance to get it back, Your NOT" forces to spend hours of time". Its not like the game stops for you just because you dont have IC access.......

You want 24/7 access to the IC, which sounds good. But trust me its not. You can go there 24/7 but you cant get anything done. You know how hard it is to do the PVE content or farm stones with enemy zergs coming around the corner every 2 minutes and you lose all your stones each time. You want access to your paid content fine, but you will never get to do it. and no PVE players will ever go there. Now you have the system where you fight for control. Yes you will not have access alot of times BUT when you do you can actually do the content. its very simple. Fight in Cyrodiil, do Trials, vet dungeons, gather, whatever But eventually you will see the message that your alliance has IC access, now its exciting! you can go there and clear out the enemy, you can do the content, and farm stones. its actually an adrenaline rush and can even change your plans for the night.

So, you're saying that the inability to access a product you paid for because other players have locked you out is the equivalent of leveling up in the regular game? That's a poor analogy. A better analogy is buying a home or a car and not being able to use it because homeless people are blocking the door and will stab you if you try to enter.

Without 24/7 access, IC is just a PvE zone. This is supposed to be a PvP update. It's supposed to be hard to get anything done. Without the threat of enemy zergs coming around the corner all you have is more PvE content. Trying to 'get something done' with the constant threat of being ambushed is more of an 'adrenaline rush' than waiting around for a message that IC is finally available. Without those enemy zergs, IC is just a grind for TV stones and the collectibles that get you into the varying doors.

If I'm paying for content, I want access to it on my schedule. If my plans for the evening ever change because of something that happens in a video game, it's time to hang up the internet and find a 12 step program.

xeoneexb14_ESO · August 2015

It's quite apparent people don't seem to realize how IC works. This is VERY reminescent of an area from a game called Dark Age of Camelot. The area was Darkness falls. Accessing it was based on holding more outposts/keeps than the other 2 factions. This is almost exact here. However seeing as the Frontier area's were static area's and not based on seperate servers, I don't know how this is going to work. I personally don't think they should restrict access based on how many keeps there are, simply because all you'd hve to do is find a campaign where your faction holds more keeps and just go in, making it pointless to have it restrict access in this manner. I do think they should make it accessible by everyone at any given time. And I think it should be 1 static server instead of whichever campaign your server is hosted on. I for one would outright refuse to pay for the DLC if they make it so you have limited access based on how many keeps your faction holds.

Needless to say I'm weary about how ZoS will handle this. Alot of what they have been deciding has made me VERY leary towads their game as a whole. While I still do play it from time to time, I don't play it seroiusly like I did when I first started at release. PvP is still a muddled joke and you can't even begin to enjoy it unless you are a fully decked out vr 14, or now vr 16? I can't even keep up with how many levels/ranks their are I play so little. The bottom line is, I think this will make or break the game. These kinds of decisions remind me of SWTOR in a way. I still play that game from time to time but not hardcore like I did, same as I am with ESO. It's a shame really.

Pirhana7_ESO · August 2015

So, you're saying that the inability to access a product you paid for because other players have locked you out is the equivalent of leveling up in the regular game? That's a poor analogy. A better analogy is buying a home or a car and not being able to use it because homeless people are blocking the door and will stab you if you try to enter.

Without 24/7 access, IC is just a PvE zone. This is supposed to be a PvP update. It's supposed to be hard to get anything done. Without the threat of enemy zergs coming around the corner all you have is more PvE content. Trying to 'get something done' with the constant threat of being ambushed is more of an 'adrenaline rush' than waiting around for a message that IC is finally available. Without those enemy zergs, IC is just a grind for TV stones and the collectibles that get you into the varying doors.

If I'm paying for content, I want access to it on my schedule. If my plans for the evening ever change because of something that happens in a video game, it's time to hang up the internet and find a 12 step program.[/quote]

Did you ever play Darkage of Camelot and experience its Darkness Falls dungeon? If not, it is the excact same system that IC is using. The brought the whole idea to ESO because the same DEVs used it in Darkage of Camelot and EVERYONE loved it. It worked very well and created countless good MMO experiences. It creates very exciting scenerios with its mechanics. PVP is still inside of it but its not a zerg war or gank fest. This system creates a rush to clear out the enemy as well as the other side making a last stand. Small groups and stealth still remain and ambush and hunt. It just becomes a better pvp and PVE environment. Access changes hands quit often every few hours.

You want it changed without even trying it...... There is no point in even bringing it to ESO if its going to be changed to how you want it with 27/7 access. That defeats the whole purpose and point of it. You take away a huge mechanic of purpose in Cyrodiil aswell.

NephilimHero · August 2015

IIIMPIII wrote: »

Realistically imperial city should be a neutral zone with very strong guards keeping the peace. if you wanna try your luck by fighting others, deal with the guards, I think there should also be a Colosseum of some sort inside where people can duel it out if they want.

Realistically it's a made up fantasy world. Having guards to protect you from the PvP in the PvP area is just ridiculous. Quit trolling

firstdecan · August 2015

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

So, you're saying that the inability to access a product you paid for because other players have locked you out is the equivalent of leveling up in the regular game? That's a poor analogy. A better analogy is buying a home or a car and not being able to use it because homeless people are blocking the door and will stab you if you try to enter.

Without 24/7 access, IC is just a PvE zone. This is supposed to be a PvP update. It's supposed to be hard to get anything done. Without the threat of enemy zergs coming around the corner all you have is more PvE content. Trying to 'get something done' with the constant threat of being ambushed is more of an 'adrenaline rush' than waiting around for a message that IC is finally available. Without those enemy zergs, IC is just a grind for TV stones and the collectibles that get you into the varying doors.

If I'm paying for content, I want access to it on my schedule. If my plans for the evening ever change because of something that happens in a video game, it's time to hang up the internet and find a 12 step program.

Did you ever play Darkage of Camelot and experience its Darkness Falls dungeon? If not, it is the excact same system that IC is using. The brought the whole idea to ESO because the same DEVs used it in Darkage of Camelot and EVERYONE loved it. It worked very well and created countless good MMO experiences. It creates very exciting scenerios with its mechanics. PVP is still inside of it but its not a zerg war or gank fest. This system creates a rush to clear out the enemy as well as the other side making a last stand. Small groups and stealth still remain and ambush and hunt. It just becomes a better pvp and PVE environment. Access changes hands quit often every few hours.

You want it changed without even trying it...... There is no point in even bringing it to ESO if its going to be changed to how you want it with 27/7 access. That defeats the whole purpose and point of it. You take away a huge mechanic of purpose in Cyrodiil aswell.

[/quote]

Never played it, don't care. I'm not an internet addict who does nothing but play MMOs. I'm only playing this MMO because it's a TES title. There's already plenty of other games for children who have nothing else to do, this is supposed to be a game for an adult audience (i.e. people with lives outside of the internet). Nothing you have stated assuages concerns I have stated about the unavailability of content I have paid for. As a matter of fact, the only thing your response has done is reinforce those concerns, and reinforce the idea that the only time this content will be available is during opportunistic periods dictated by the performance of the compulsive, addicted player. If this is ZoS' new target market that's their decision, they should simply expect that their new content will only appeal to a marginal part of their audience.

And if you're referring to the same darkness falls as this post, I would assume that this is content no one will care about shortly after its release.

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/darkness-falls-the-new-ghost-town-of-daoc.250230038/

Mighty_oakk · August 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

So, you're saying that the inability to access a product you paid for because other players have locked you out is the equivalent of leveling up in the regular game? That's a poor analogy. A better analogy is buying a home or a car and not being able to use it because homeless people are blocking the door and will stab you if you try to enter.

Without 24/7 access, IC is just a PvE zone. This is supposed to be a PvP update. It's supposed to be hard to get anything done. Without the threat of enemy zergs coming around the corner all you have is more PvE content. Trying to 'get something done' with the constant threat of being ambushed is more of an 'adrenaline rush' than waiting around for a message that IC is finally available. Without those enemy zergs, IC is just a grind for TV stones and the collectibles that get you into the varying doors.

If I'm paying for content, I want access to it on my schedule. If my plans for the evening ever change because of something that happens in a video game, it's time to hang up the internet and find a 12 step program.

Did you ever play Darkage of Camelot and experience its Darkness Falls dungeon? If not, it is the excact same system that IC is using. The brought the whole idea to ESO because the same DEVs used it in Darkage of Camelot and EVERYONE loved it. It worked very well and created countless good MMO experiences. It creates very exciting scenerios with its mechanics. PVP is still inside of it but its not a zerg war or gank fest. This system creates a rush to clear out the enemy as well as the other side making a last stand. Small groups and stealth still remain and ambush and hunt. It just becomes a better pvp and PVE environment. Access changes hands quit often every few hours.

You want it changed without even trying it...... There is no point in even bringing it to ESO if its going to be changed to how you want it with 27/7 access. That defeats the whole purpose and point of it. You take away a huge mechanic of purpose in Cyrodiil aswell.

Never played it, don't care. I'm not an internet addict who does nothing but play MMOs. I'm only playing this MMO because it's a TES title. There's already plenty of other games for children who have nothing else to do, this is supposed to be a game for an adult audience (i.e. people with lives outside of the internet). Nothing you have stated assuages concerns I have stated about the unavailability of content I have paid for. As a matter of fact, the only thing your response has done is reinforce those concerns, and reinforce the idea that the only time this content will be available is during opportunistic periods dictated by the performance of the compulsive, addicted player. If this is ZoS' new target market that's their decision, they should simply expect that their new content will only appeal to a marginal part of their audience.

And if you're referring to the same darkness falls as this post, I would assume that this is content no one will care about shortly after its release.

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/darkness-falls-the-new-ghost-town-of-daoc.250230038/[/quote]

I think the problem there are changes made to the content (similar to zos and craglorn?), not the accessibility.

Cazic · August 2015

Restricted access is a good idea, and it's a core element of how the IC is supposed to work. This will create more purpose and tension in Cyro, as well as a more dynamic battlefield. If one faction is controlling IC, their population will be concentrated there, giving the other factions a chance to bounce back. It's a cycle that will run its course several times a day, as others have mentioned.

Some of you seem to be blinded by the whole "I paid for this and you can't tell me how to use it" mentality. It is PvP driven DLC... if you're interested in IC then you're interested in PvP, and if you're interested in PvP then you'll WANT to go fight for the city if your faction doesn't have access to it. The desire to capture it is what drives the content and creates memorable experiences within it. If it's open 24/7 to everyone then it'll just be a gankfest full of randomness... like a constant keep siege but condensed into smaller areas. That doesn't sound all that fun.

Visemere · August 2015

it worked perfectly fine for Dark Age Of Camelot and Darkness falls, which operated in EXACTLY the same way...

lets just chill.

Teiji · August 2015

Remember you'll have to wait until Tel Var Stone weapons are added to Imperial City in a future update.

If this bothers you, don't purchase Imperial City until all IC content is in-game, whenever this will be.

It may be a wait similar to upper Craglorn release.

Tel Var Stone weapons not immediately available with Imperial City - expect upper Craglorn style update

sadownik · August 2015

Cazic wrote: »

Restricted access is a good idea, and it's a core element of how the IC is supposed to work. This will create more purpose and tension in Cyro, as well as a more dynamic battlefield. If one faction is controlling IC, their population will be concentrated there, giving the other factions a chance to bounce back. It's a cycle that will run its course several times a day, as others have mentioned.

Some of you seem to be blinded by the whole "I paid for this and you can't tell me how to use it" mentality. It is PvP driven DLC... if you're interested in IC then you're interested in PvP, and if you're interested in PvP then you'll WANT to go fight for the city if your faction doesn't have access to it. The desire to capture it is what drives the content and creates memorable experiences within it. If it's open 24/7 to everyone then it'll just be a gankfest full of randomness... like a constant keep siege but condensed into smaller areas. That doesn't sound all that fun.

It will create even bigger reason for buff campgains that we have now with actual buffs from pvp thats all.

Egonieser · August 2015

Wait just a god darn second!

I hate PvE content and grinding levels and XP, please ZoS remove the PvE part of the game and let me only play PvP and please force others to do so aswell!!11one Don't even think to cater for them, only cater to me and my preferred content ok?!
Please make the whole game PvP for me, because i paid for the game and pay a sub because i am soo entitled to it, or else i will not pay and maybe even quit!! How dare you not cater to me and allow others to play how they want, i don't want it that way!

Bet it doesn't sound very appealing when i say it does it? But that's exactly what i read when OP and the rest of whiners post this nonsense, only in the opposite way.

ADarklore · August 2015

I have to laugh at people approving of the six-keep gated system by saying, "This is good because now you have to put in effort to gain access." Having to put in effort to gain access to something a person PAYS FOR in order to access in the first place doesn't seem logical... it is akin to having to pay TWICE. First you pay real money, second you pay with your 'effort' and if you happen to play during times when fellow alliance members are not highly populated, guess what, NO ACCESS to something you paid for. Not a good direction for a game that NEEDS to maintain a steady stream of income.

Winterpsy · August 2015

I'd like if there was a keep requirement for IC.

It'd motivate the players in different alliances to push harder and get some territory. Whenever I entered a campaign it was very lopsided. One of the alliances usually governing every region, every keep pushing back the others to the starter city.

I can still imagine that you can sneak into IC even if your faction does not control that side of the city. But with more risk. Gotto sneak through enemy territory after all.

Maybe added bonus instead of restriction when your faction holds some more keeps, or have control over a district entrance, like....uhm, TVS protection? Dunno.

ADarklore · August 2015

I'd be OK with a keep requirement if this was a FREE update... but I've never before, ever, heard of having to pay for something that had requirements and limitations on access... other than having to be a certain 'level' as in other MMOs.

firstdecan · August 2015

Egonieser wrote: »

Wait just a god darn second!

I hate PvE content and grinding levels and XP, please ZoS remove the PvE part of the game and let me only play PvP and please force others to do so aswell!!11one Don't even think to cater for them, only cater to me and my preferred content ok?!
Please make the whole game PvP for me, because i paid for the game and pay a sub because i am soo entitled to it, or else i will not pay and maybe even quit!! How dare you not cater to me and allow others to play how they want, i don't want it that way!

Bet it doesn't sound very appealing when i say it does it? But that's exactly what i read when OP and the rest of whiners post this nonsense, only in the opposite way.

There's a difference between a legitimate debate, and the hyperbole you have confused with a point. My question is legitimate: Why should I pay for content I can't access? So far, there have been 2 legitimate responses.

1 - There will end up being buff campaigns making the debate moot.

2 - Another game had similar content that saw some popularity but no one plays anymore.

Neither of these responses precludes the possibility of being locked out of content that a player has purchased.

ZoS makes some very unusual decisions, which includes forcing people to play content they don't enjoy in order to get to content they do (the forced PvE grind for PvPers). Amongst these unusual decisions is making a PvE zone a reward for PvP (which is all IC is when you lock out the other alliances).

If you have something to contribute, address the points that have been made. If your contribution is limited to your straw man hyperbole, please stay out of my thread.

If you want to examine my personal motives, realize that I have at least 2VR characters in every alliance. IF I choose to purchase this content, I personally will not be locked out of anything. That does not change the fact that locking out players from a product they have purchased will impact sales, reduce the number of participants in this content, and further the feelings of frustration and enmity that many players have,

My choice was to address this from the individual consumers perspective. Why should I pay for something I can't use? If you don't have an answer to that, you have nothing to contribute.

firstdecan · August 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

I'd be OK with a keep requirement if this was a FREE update... but I've never before, ever, heard of having to pay for something that had requirements and limitations on access... other than having to be a certain 'level' as in other MMOs.

Agreed.

AlnilamE · August 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

My choice was to address this from the individual consumers perspective. Why should I pay for something I can't use? If you don't have an answer to that, you have nothing to contribute.

The problem is that you are misinterpreting the product. If they decide to gate access behind holding keeps, then the 'holding keeps' becomes part of your content, just has "getting a group of 12 players in appropriate roles" is part of the content for running trials.

If you are not OK with that, then by all means, don't pay for the content. But this has always been known as a PvP-centric update, so having PvP be a part of it either in the form of an access gate or in the form of risk while inside IC is to be expected.

You will be able to run the 4-person dungeons from anywhere once you have discovered them, though.

And another thing, as long as you log off inside IC, I believe you will log back on inside it even if your faction doesn't technically have "access" to it at that time.

I've been on PTS while it was open access and honestly, I'd rather fight for a few keeps and then go in and enjoy some slightly quieter time. But you should go on the PTS and check it out yourself. It's all theoretical until you've been ganked five times while trying to do a quest.

firstdecan wrote: »

If I'm paying for content, I want access to it on my schedule. If my plans for the evening ever change because of something that happens in a video game, it's time to hang up the internet and find a 12 step program.

Me (logging in): I think I'm going to finish Auridon on my soc tonight.
Guildies: Hey, want to do the pledge today? We need a Healer/DPS.
Me: Sure! Let me grab it.

...do you have a 1-800 number for that 12-step program?

UrQuan · August 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

The problem is that you are misinterpreting the product. If they decide to gate access behind holding keeps, then the 'holding keeps' becomes part of your content, just has "getting a group of 12 players in appropriate roles" is part of the content for running trials.

Hmm, that might be the best argument I've seen for having access to Imperial City dependent on how your alliance is doing in Cyrodiil.

Having said that, I still don't think access should be blocked for anyone based on the map in Cyrodiil. I like the idea of Cyrodiil having a significant effect on Imperial City, but I'd vastly prefer it if there was still a way you could get there even if another alliance is completely dominating the map - but a much more dangerous way to get there, and when you do get there you're at a disadvantage because of buffs the opposing players get due to their control of Cyrodiil (maybe not direct buffs to stats, maybe some other form of advantage).

firstdecan · August 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

My choice was to address this from the individual consumers perspective. Why should I pay for something I can't use? If you don't have an answer to that, you have nothing to contribute.

The problem is that you are misinterpreting the product. If they decide to gate access behind holding keeps, then the 'holding keeps' becomes part of your content, just has "getting a group of 12 players in appropriate roles" is part of the content for running trials.

If you are not OK with that, then by all means, don't pay for the content. But this has always been known as a PvP-centric update, so having PvP be a part of it either in the form of an access gate or in the form of risk while inside IC is to be expected.

You will be able to run the 4-person dungeons from anywhere once you have discovered them, though.

And another thing, as long as you log off inside IC, I believe you will log back on inside it even if your faction doesn't technically have "access" to it at that time.

I've been on PTS while it was open access and honestly, I'd rather fight for a few keeps and then go in and enjoy some slightly quieter time. But you should go on the PTS and check it out yourself. It's all theoretical until you've been ganked five times while trying to do a quest.

I appreciate the response, but it still makes no sense. I've been on the PTS, IC is a gank fest. It's "guerilla style" close quarters PvP (using the term very loosely). That's the way the content is designed. If you can lock out other alliances, it's no longer PvP, it's just another PvE zone. If I wanted to fight for a few keeps and then do some "Quieter time" there's already existing PvE content for that.

I am not misinterpreting the product by any means. Gating access behind a certain number of keeps makes it a reward for PvP, not a PvP update. Take a look at this quote from one of the PTS threads:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2106600#Comment_2106600

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I love crawling around in the sewers, especially way deep down on the 3rd level. That rush you get when you see another player down there and have to decide to fight or flee. So awesome!

(No we don't have plans to make the sewers PVE only)

It's supposed to be hard (next to impossible?) to "get anything done" in there. We don't need easier content, this is more challenging content. Again, locking other alliances out just makes IC a PvE zone, which is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what ZoS is stating their intentions are.

AlnilamE wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

If I'm paying for content, I want access to it on my schedule. If my plans for the evening ever change because of something that happens in a video game, it's time to hang up the internet and find a 12 step program.

Me (logging in): I think I'm going to finish Auridon on my soc tonight.
Guildies: Hey, want to do the pledge today? We need a Healer/DPS.
Me: Sure! Let me grab it.

...do you have a 1-800 number for that 12-step program?

:P

1-855-315-4766
http://freeaddictionhotline.com/tag/internet-addiction-help/

1-800-522-3784
http://www.addictionrecov.org/Addictions/index.aspx?AID=43

Volkodav · August 2015

sagitter wrote: »

I quote what I wrote in another thread:

sagitter wrote: »

I can make another example here: imagine that 1 alliance is nightcapping and zerging all inside the City,the others 2 alliance are suffering, they could organize a group to kick the nightcappers out conquering their keeps.This add new scenarios guys, more tactic,pvp mmo concept war need this ,believe me , I know this mechanic and played it for years, and is fun.

Yes it s a paid dlc, but only 2 months of sub than you have access unlimited for free.
Already a discussion here : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202328/there-cannot-be-access-gates-to-the-imperial-city-paid-dlc/p10

Yes you do get it free.However,if you want to KEEP it all,you must remain subed.It is taken away when you unsub.Which is why I still sub. From the beginning I knew this was the case.Problem is that now,those of us who dont care to get ripped up[ in PvP arent important to them anymore.They dont think they need us.The console and PvPers are all their focus now.So those of us who have been there from the start and enjoy PvE are snubbed.

firstdecan · August 2015

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

I quote what I wrote in another thread:

sagitter wrote: »

I can make another example here: imagine that 1 alliance is nightcapping and zerging all inside the City,the others 2 alliance are suffering, they could organize a group to kick the nightcappers out conquering their keeps.This add new scenarios guys, more tactic,pvp mmo concept war need this ,believe me , I know this mechanic and played it for years, and is fun.

Yes it s a paid dlc, but only 2 months of sub than you have access unlimited for free.
Already a discussion here : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202328/there-cannot-be-access-gates-to-the-imperial-city-paid-dlc/p10

Yes you do get it free.However,if you want to KEEP it all,you must remain subed.It is taken away when you unsub.Which is why I still sub. From the beginning I knew this was the case.Problem is that now,those of us who dont care to get ripped up[ in PvP arent important to them anymore.They dont think they need us.The console and PvPers are all their focus now.So those of us who have been there from the start and enjoy PvE are snubbed.

I appreciate your perspective, and I don't necessarily disagree, but this is a tangent from the thread topic. The focus should be the access restrictions and whether or not they are appropriate for paid content.

This is not a free update. You either have to buy the crowns for it, keep your sub active, or sub for two months and use your subscription crowns to buy the update.

Kill_On_Sight · August 2015

I think pay walling the ONLY NEW PVP CONTENT SINCE THE LAUNCH OF THE FREAKING GAME is a horrible idea. You can count on Zo$ to come up with bad ideas and cash grab. I used to play this game. Everyday. In cyrodiil because PVP was the STRONG POINT But I quit... Why? Because they wouldnt add anything new to it. Now I find out why... It's so they could hold off content so they could SELL IT TO CONSOLE PLAYERS. I bet their pvp server lag fix is still "Try not to all fight in one place"
Imperial city is what I was gonna come back to the game for. It's not that I can't afford to toss 25 dollars at it. It's that it's pretty disgusting in my opinion that they are pay walling it. You say they are a business they have to make money some how right? Well IC should have been in the game from the get go I am disgusted by this and most likely wont come back to lick their boot and pay their fee.

Try making content that shouldnt have been in the game from the start and paywalling it. Oh try to make sure that content is playable by everybody since they are gonna pay for it @ZOS. and to finish off my rant I'll leave it at this.... Quit bending PVPERS over a barrel and POUNDING THEM. You follow in the footsteps of most mmo's except the mmo's that decide to ignore pvp atleast add PVP TIER AND RAID TIER AND KEEP THEM SEPERATE. World of warcraft what do they do? They barely add any new pvp maps ever but they do add new pvp tier to fight for.

Pangnirtung · August 2015

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

The sheer fact that PvE content is gated behind PvP is stupid.

This.

This has got to be one of the most ridiculous things ZOS has done since beta.

It's PVE but it isn't. It's in a PVP area. Doh!