@DDuke
@Philelectric

I made this video because someone on youtube comments was arguing with me that I was a noob who didn't know anything about PvP, because I claimed stamina nightblades were some of the strongest builds available atm. He said nightblades were weak.

DDuke wrote: »

These are not NB specific issues and I'm happy to see them fixed in the next patch (well, dmg shields are a question mark still).

But the true objective of the video is to show how broken stamina is, and doing that with a nightblade is the easiest thing ever. Keep in mind, I just finished levelling this character, I don't even have all the passives unlocked, I don't have vigor, I don't even have the combat buffs from the alliance rank passives, nor caltrops nor anything. Most of all my only PvP experience as NB was a couple hours on non Vet. I know good nightblades play 5 times better than me.
You are right, it's not a nb specific issue.

DDuke wrote: »

Also, 10k focused aims are on the low side. If you build for bow damage, you'll easily be critting 20k+ with them
Oh, and why don't you ask @Soulac how much damage a simple DW heavy attack can deal from stealth

The 10k lethal arrow wasn't from stealth. I did get focused aims for 22k, just didn't happen to be able to record for those particular ones. And yeah I also am barely reaching 300 CPs, i don't have 700 + like you

If you build for actual oneshot, killing with one single arrow is possible yeah. But if you plan on killing in under a second, using 2 skills + light attack, you can pretty much afford to reduce that focused aim dmg by half. Which means you can cut down on damage to get more sustain, better resists or whatever, and still kill people in under a second, because stamina is broken as hell.

Philelectric wrote: »

Lets assume the build used in the video is OP.

What I see is

Wrecking blow - Crit Rush - Rally - snipe - camo hunter( trying to showcase ''op'' stamblade burst on vamp with camo hunter...wtf)

You forgot executioner. You know, the skill that does 15K + damage? from out of stealth? Without an extra dmg boost from a prior wrecking blow or mage light? I'm sure it can go over 20k using those.

Oh and that BS ulti incapacitating strike with a ridiculous low cost of 50.

Philelectric wrote: »

There is also surprise attack, dual wielding have a ranged copy of it (flying blade). Cloak, asking a stamblade to not use cloak is like asking a sorc to not use shields.


''op'' burst from stealth is a rally + wrecking blow or snipe thing. ambush + surprise attack might look op aswell but every stam build can affort similar burst opener and magika sorc with 40k shields aswell.

Congrats you figured it out.

Philelectric wrote: »

On top of that there is many non vet/low vet players in the video. We can assume they are undergeared.

We can all say the burst from class/build XY is OP. The problem isnt the classes or the builds, the problem is the game itself. ttk since 1.6(2.0) is a myth. And you can add the free dmg buff+ healing from rally, the hardest hitting stealth opener known as wrecking blow and one of the best (might be the best) gap closer, crit rush.

So yeah, I agree the 2hands skill line is OP as puck.

Low ttk is not a problem for all classes or builds, just no.

Even a stealth opener on a light armor low level SHOULD NOT lead to death in under a second. It's toxic for any PvP environment. I mean ffs the guys i kill with wrecking blow die before falling back down on the ground. If you look closely you'll see the lvl 10 at the very start takes less dmg that the v14 with a decent PvP rank. Undergeared you say? Does it even make a difference? F*** no. Gear makes zero difference with sharpened maces.

Philelectric wrote: »

Edit: You can notice the broken armor pen from maces is being exploited to spread bad information just like nirn was use to spread the bad information about magika builds damage potential in PvP

Spreading bad information????? The point is to show that IT IS BROKEN, to show that it takes absolutely zero skill to do it, and that it's available to all. Nirn is another problem. Nirn is MANDATORY if you don't want to get oneshot from sorcs, and at the same time, it makes magicka builds who can't have 40 magicka hit like wet noodles (my magicka dk with 1.8k spell dmg and 31k magicka does crit whips for 3k on nirn stackers, and people try to defend 20k openers, woop woop).
There is nothing to mitigate sharpened maces, therefore I think it's 10 times more broken that nirn.

I've been playing dk since launch, I don't consider myself to be the best dk ever, but I am very experienced, and I'm sick of dying to complete *** since 1.6 who can get 7k wrecking blows on me when I'm blocking ( did I mention I have 35k armor when that happens? ). That's what made me lvl this NB just so I could make a video about it. I'm sick of instagibbing, and people thinking that it's ok because it's from stealth. This isn't a single player RPG. Killing in one second leaves no chance of defense for the target, it's not fun.

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

20k wrecking blow when fully buffed and going against someone in unoptimized armour is easily possible. Just most times it'll hit for 1/2 that.

A ) I don't think he was even fully buffed. I didn't see magelight toggle for the empower buff. Not to mention that he doesn't seem to use double mundus exploit etc. It could have been much worse.

B ) His target could have been wearing a lengendary quality heavy Alessias Bulwark set and it would have made 0 difference. He's got a sharpened maul equipped.

The target had 27k HP (which is much more than most) and still dropped dead in under 1". That's the fact. Everything else is excuses masking the fact that stamina dmg is out of control.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

wtb softcaps

(couldn't watch the video, but it fits nonetheless )

use proxy if you're in Germany :P

DDuke wrote: »

@Etaniel

I get why you think stamina is broken, but it's really more of an issue with Nirnhoned.

I am getting 25k+ Heavy Attack crits out of stealth on people without nirn on my magicka DK, and I can combo that with a 20k+ meteor if I so choose.

Just the other day I parked my DK on the platform at CWC, and literally one shot 5-6 leechers several times (they kept ressing each other) with heavy attacks & meteors.

Should someone be wearing nirn, those crits go down drastically. Where my whips used to crit 10-11k, they go down to 6k~


That's just how the game is. Also, the Sharpened Mace issue makes stamina builds deal 10%~ more damage than they would without the bug.


In fact, I'm really worried about both stamina builds' damage potential and survivability after the next patch, when both Sharpened Mace & Nirnhoned get fixed (a good thing, don't get me wrong).

You just pointed out that it's possible to mitigate magic damage, when it's not possible to mitigate physical damage, and also pointed out that the current physical damage output is only bugged by 10%? And you think that's normal?

DDuke wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

@Etaniel

I get why you think stamina is broken, but it's really more of an issue with Nirnhoned.

I am getting 25k+ Heavy Attack crits out of stealth on people without nirn on my magicka DK, and I can combo that with a 20k+ meteor if I so choose.

Just the other day I parked my DK on the platform at CWC, and literally one shot 5-6 leechers several times (they kept ressing each other) with heavy attacks & meteors.

Should someone be wearing nirn, those crits go down drastically. Where my whips used to crit 10-11k, they go down to 6k~


That's just how the game is. Also, the Sharpened Mace issue makes stamina builds deal 10%~ more damage than they would without the bug.


In fact, I'm really worried about both stamina builds' damage potential and survivability after the next patch, when both Sharpened Mace & Nirnhoned get fixed (a good thing, don't get me wrong).

You just pointed out that it's possible to mitigate magic damage, when it's not possible to mitigate physical damage, and also pointed out that the current physical damage output is only bugged by 10%? And you think that's normal?

No, I'm just saying it'll hopefully be balanced after bugs are fixed ^^

Issue is not with stamina builds per se, but these bugs that plague the game.

In fact, they might even have to buff stamina builds after these are fixed, who knows.
Having played several months without nirn as a stamina NB, I'm worried of what is to come.

Why? Considering the changes to Battle Spirit you will be receiving less dmg than a target with full nirn is receiving atm based on my calculations. Not much less mind, but franctionally.

Also now you can dodge all attacks and some of the nerfs that happened (like BE) might force the few pure glass cannon magicka builds into a more sustain build (i.e. less damage)

While there is no way of mitigating physical dmg but there's like 4 ways to mitigate magic damage, stamina builds will still deal more damage in comparison.

On paper you should be more tha fine, we'll see how that turns out. I'm also worried about my Sorcs burst damage.

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

20k wrecking blow when fully buffed and going against someone in unoptimized armour is easily possible. Just most times it'll hit for 1/2 that.

A ) I don't think he was even fully buffed. I didn't see magelight toggle for the empower buff. Not to mention that he doesn't seem to use double mundus exploit etc. It could have been much worse.

B ) His target could have been wearing a lengendary quality heavy Alessias Bulwark set and it would have made 0 difference. He's got a sharpened maul equipped.

The target had 27k HP (which is much more than most) and still dropped dead in under 1". That's the fact. Everything else is excuses masking the fact that stamina dmg is out of control.

You mean Rally instead of magelight? Also your HP math is a little off. But regardless, my post can apply to anyone who stacks weapon power enough to do serious damage like that. I did not know about Sharpened maul though, time to dust off my trusty old baseball bat.

No no, he means magelight. I think rally gives the major brutality buff, 20% extra physical damage, while toggling mage light grants you the empower buff 20% extra dmg on next attack. So yeah, that wrecking blow could have gone up to 24k, and even higher possibly

Etaniel wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

20k wrecking blow when fully buffed and going against someone in unoptimized armour is easily possible. Just most times it'll hit for 1/2 that.

A ) I don't think he was even fully buffed. I didn't see magelight toggle for the empower buff. Not to mention that he doesn't seem to use double mundus exploit etc. It could have been much worse.

B ) His target could have been wearing a lengendary quality heavy Alessias Bulwark set and it would have made 0 difference. He's got a sharpened maul equipped.

The target had 27k HP (which is much more than most) and still dropped dead in under 1". That's the fact. Everything else is excuses masking the fact that stamina dmg is out of control.

You mean Rally instead of magelight? Also your HP math is a little off. But regardless, my post can apply to anyone who stacks weapon power enough to do serious damage like that. I did not know about Sharpened maul though, time to dust off my trusty old baseball bat.

No no, he means magelight. I think rally gives the major brutality buff, 20% extra physical damage, while toggling mage light grants you the empower buff 20% extra dmg on next attack. So yeah, that wrecking blow could have gone up to 24k, and even higher possibly

Huh, there was me thinking it was magicka attacks only.

Guess you learn something new every day. Have you tried focused aim/ambush to see if empower works on that too?

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

20k wrecking blow when fully buffed and going against someone in unoptimized armour is easily possible. Just most times it'll hit for 1/2 that.

A ) I don't think he was even fully buffed. I didn't see magelight toggle for the empower buff. Not to mention that he doesn't seem to use double mundus exploit etc. It could have been much worse.

B ) His target could have been wearing a lengendary quality heavy Alessias Bulwark set and it would have made 0 difference. He's got a sharpened maul equipped.

The target had 27k HP (which is much more than most) and still dropped dead in under 1". That's the fact. Everything else is excuses masking the fact that stamina dmg is out of control.

You mean Rally instead of magelight? Also your HP math is a little off. But regardless, my post can apply to anyone who stacks weapon power enough to do serious damage like that. I did not know about Sharpened maul though, time to dust off my trusty old baseball bat.

No no, he means magelight. I think rally gives the major brutality buff, 20% extra physical damage, while toggling mage light grants you the empower buff 20% extra dmg on next attack. So yeah, that wrecking blow could have gone up to 24k, and even higher possibly

Huh, there was me thinking it was magicka attacks only.

Guess you learn something new every day. Have you tried focused aim/ambush to see if empower works on that too?

Some of the kills in the beginning are focused aim + ambush. I know the editing makes it go fast but look closely :P Yes it does work

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

No need for Magelight, Ambush provides Empower.

If you Ambush and then use Wrecking Blow, yes your WB will be Empowered but the ambush has popped you out of stealth. So you granted your stealth bonus to your weaker attack of the two, plus with WB having 1" cast time you actually give them a chance to react and block/dodge the WB.

With Mundus Exploit, Sharpened Maul and full wpn dmg build you could probably push for 25k Wrecking Blows out of stealth. On vamps you can land +40k combos with Camo Hunter.

Good thing ML will not proc MotG come patch.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

Huh, there was me thinking it was magicka attacks only.

Guess you learn something new every day. Have you tried focused aim/ambush to see if empower works on that too?

Amateur!

Might of the guild passive works for all attacks, stamina or magicka. And yes sharpened maces/mauls ignore all armor, where have you been for the last 5 months?

Also my HP math is not off at all, thank you very much. The target has 26,913 HP which is pretty much 27k and yes, he dies in under 1".

I saw the WB for 20k, although could be wrong too.

Also knew about mace but not maul, been in care bear land since 1.6 hit so still flexing my bow snipe muscles again and learning new one shot or one sec mechanics

My Nvidia Shadowplay also did not work after the upgrade to windows 10, but uninstalling Geforce Experience and Drivers then reinstalling fixed it.

danno8 wrote: »

My Nvidia Shadowplay also did not work after the upgrade to windows 10, but uninstalling Geforce Experience and Drivers then reinstalling fixed it.

Tried that yesterday, didn't work.

Stikato wrote: »

Thanks for making this video and pointing out the ridiculousness of some current PvP mechanics.

I hope those of you that have taken advantage of these things feel like real rock stars.

Cyrodil is full of ganking rockstars