Can we make class shields even?
-
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Stalwart385 wrote: »I would prefer it to be setup like this:
All class sheilds are based on magicka
- Socrs have by far the strongest and most efficient because Hardened Ward is the purest shield.
- DKs are weakest because it is a group shield, and they have a class heal.
- Templars somewhere in the middle because it deals damage. The potential of the Radiant Ward in the right situation could be approaching Hardened Ward. They also have a class heal to consider.
All non-class shields are based on health.
- This prevents shield stacking.
- It gives high HP builds somewhere to look.pvpaddict42 wrote: »ZoS, can you please give breath of life or Dragonblood to Sorcerer ? Not ? Hm, I see.
No instead sorcerers get bolt escape, increasing mobility and giving the ability to get out of bad situations more quickly, similar to how nightblades get Shadow Cloak. In some situations it's more ideal and useful than heals, less so in others. Damage absorption shields however are in three classes, yet one class is scaling from a different source from the other two and it creates a problem. So level the playing field at least in terms of how the game mechanics are working.
Except Sorcerers lost Bolt Escape again, it's not feasible as an escape or mobility skill anymore now, only as a short aoe stun.
Huh? So being able to use it 5 times to move away that is not an escape mechanic? That moves you well away. With a cost for doing so. Sorry easy mode got a little harder
You have no clue about this game, which I can easily see after reading your 4 double posts.
Use Bolt Escape 5 times, you'll be out of Magicka and it will take enemies 5 seconds max to catch up and then you're done. It's impossible to escape with Bolt Escape and if you say otherwise, then YOU're the one who is biased, uncapable to run a few steps (or too lazy) and has nothing on his mind than seeing other classes being nerfed to death because you are uncapable.
Don't dare teaching me, clueless one.Edited by Dracane on August 9, 2015 10:02AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Okay... well I always kill blinking Sorcs.
I will never understand, why people don't get it. What do you think, why Sorcerers shield scales of Magicka ? Because he is a mage, he has no self heal so he needs better protection ?
What do you think, why DKs and Templars shield scales of health ? Because they have strong self heals and don't need a strong shield. But Templar tanks need a strong shield, because their self heals are less effective when they have high health but low Magicka. So their shield scales of Health.
Same goes for DK, both classes are excellent tanks.
Your argument is hollow because sorc healing ward >> DK's GDB and Templar Breath of Life.
I agree, healing ward is far superior to GDB or Breath of life, never denied that, never said anything else.
I hate Healing Ward.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭I tried a sorc on pts becausec I don't have one on life but try this one for escaping: 4x be and then boundless storm for 4 secs I was able to port through whole shadowfen to get the mana regen mundus stone without ever being too low on magicka I guess with higher regens you could even do 5 or 6 times be before you have to use boundless stormPC,EU, EP
Der-über-Zwerge-springt (Argonian, Magplar), Surtur Velothi (Dunmer, Magdk), Jaqene H'ghar (Imperial, Stamblade), Puppyslayer (Orc, Stamdk), Dagoth Era (Dunmer, Magblade), Æthmon Trevas (Altmer, Magsorc), Der-Zuletzt-Lacht (Argonian, Magden), Sir-Lanzeflott (Redguard, Stamplar)1 -
Laggus✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Stalwart385 wrote: »I would prefer it to be setup like this:
All class sheilds are based on magicka
- Socrs have by far the strongest and most efficient because Hardened Ward is the purest shield.
- DKs are weakest because it is a group shield, and they have a class heal.
- Templars somewhere in the middle because it deals damage. The potential of the Radiant Ward in the right situation could be approaching Hardened Ward. They also have a class heal to consider.
All non-class shields are based on health.
- This prevents shield stacking.
- It gives high HP builds somewhere to look.pvpaddict42 wrote: »ZoS, can you please give breath of life or Dragonblood to Sorcerer ? Not ? Hm, I see.
No instead sorcerers get bolt escape, increasing mobility and giving the ability to get out of bad situations more quickly, similar to how nightblades get Shadow Cloak. In some situations it's more ideal and useful than heals, less so in others. Damage absorption shields however are in three classes, yet one class is scaling from a different source from the other two and it creates a problem. So level the playing field at least in terms of how the game mechanics are working.
Except Sorcerers lost Bolt Escape again, it's not feasible as an escape or mobility skill anymore now, only as a short aoe stun.
Huh? So being able to use it 5 times to move away that is not an escape mechanic? That moves you well away. With a cost for doing so. Sorry easy mode got a little harder
You have no clue about this game, which I can easily see after reading your 4 double posts.
Use Bolt Escape 5 times, you'll be out of Magicka and it will take enemies 5 seconds max to catch up and then you're done. It's impossible to escape with Bolt Escape and if you say otherwise, then YOU're the one who is biased, uncapable to run a few steps (or too lazy) and has nothing on his mind than seeing other classes being nerfed to death because you are uncapable.
Don't dare teaching me, clueless one.
It will take who 5 secs to catch up to a Sorc that bolted 5 times? Interested to see that unless..its another Sorc and guess what they will be out of Magika then too. Every one elses gap closers need to used when in range after your first bolt. How do you think its impossible to escape with BE now. Have you even seen PTS!!1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Stalwart385 wrote: »I would prefer it to be setup like this:
All class sheilds are based on magicka
- Socrs have by far the strongest and most efficient because Hardened Ward is the purest shield.
- DKs are weakest because it is a group shield, and they have a class heal.
- Templars somewhere in the middle because it deals damage. The potential of the Radiant Ward in the right situation could be approaching Hardened Ward. They also have a class heal to consider.
All non-class shields are based on health.
- This prevents shield stacking.
- It gives high HP builds somewhere to look.pvpaddict42 wrote: »ZoS, can you please give breath of life or Dragonblood to Sorcerer ? Not ? Hm, I see.
No instead sorcerers get bolt escape, increasing mobility and giving the ability to get out of bad situations more quickly, similar to how nightblades get Shadow Cloak. In some situations it's more ideal and useful than heals, less so in others. Damage absorption shields however are in three classes, yet one class is scaling from a different source from the other two and it creates a problem. So level the playing field at least in terms of how the game mechanics are working.
Except Sorcerers lost Bolt Escape again, it's not feasible as an escape or mobility skill anymore now, only as a short aoe stun.
Huh? So being able to use it 5 times to move away that is not an escape mechanic? That moves you well away. With a cost for doing so. Sorry easy mode got a little harder
You have no clue about this game, which I can easily see after reading your 4 double posts.
Use Bolt Escape 5 times, you'll be out of Magicka and it will take enemies 5 seconds max to catch up and then you're done. It's impossible to escape with Bolt Escape and if you say otherwise, then YOU're the one who is biased, uncapable to run a few steps (or too lazy) and has nothing on his mind than seeing other classes being nerfed to death because you are uncapable.
Don't dare teaching me, clueless one.
It will take who 5 secs to catch up to a Sorc that bolted 5 times? Interested to see that unless..its another Sorc and guess what they will be out of Magika then too. Every one elses gap closers need to used when in range after your first bolt. How do you think its impossible to escape with BE now. Have you even seen PTS!!
People pretend Sorcerers can escape with Bolt Escape only, which is a big lie !
On live, there is no reason to follow a blinking Sorcerer, because he can blink a long distance and will still have some Magicka to protect himself and to fight back.
But on pts, there are reasons to follow a blinking Sorc. Let him burn his Magicka with Bolt Escape spam, follow him and enjoy your free ap.
I usually follow them with Boundless Storm and then it happens.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »I tried a sorc on pts becausec I don't have one on life but try this one for escaping: 4x be and then boundless storm for 4 secs I was able to port through whole shadowfen to get the mana regen mundus stone without ever being too low on magicka I guess with higher regens you could even do 5 or 6 times be before you have to use boundless storm
You are aware that your Magicka regenerates faster outside of combat ?Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »I tried a sorc on pts becausec I don't have one on life but try this one for escaping: 4x be and then boundless storm for 4 secs I was able to port through whole shadowfen to get the mana regen mundus stone without ever being too low on magicka I guess with higher regens you could even do 5 or 6 times be before you have to use boundless storm
You are aware that your Magicka regenerates faster outside of combat ?
Shure but I ported over the mobs in Shadwofen too so I was in combat 50% of the time and did not have the magicka regen from the mundus stone yet. I also did this later in the imperial city too. I just died once because I had a freeze the rest of the time I was always able to get away from the enemy no matter how many they were.PC,EU, EP
Der-über-Zwerge-springt (Argonian, Magplar), Surtur Velothi (Dunmer, Magdk), Jaqene H'ghar (Imperial, Stamblade), Puppyslayer (Orc, Stamdk), Dagoth Era (Dunmer, Magblade), Æthmon Trevas (Altmer, Magsorc), Der-Zuletzt-Lacht (Argonian, Magden), Sir-Lanzeflott (Redguard, Stamplar)0 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pls no. That "let's make all thing even" *** turned world of you-know-what into disgusting *** for butthanded people.Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.0 -
Birdovic✭✭✭✭✭@Laggus
@Darnathian
I suggest you to read my long post with lots of answers people have when complaining about Sorc, including Bolt Escape therefore,too. It is on Page 3 of this Thread.
I have the feeling it could help you alot with understanding a sorc and why there cant be much more nerf.Attempt and Thoughts to Overhaul Scaling, Attribute System and Enchantments
Improving the Sorcerer class: Ideas
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of Combat to feel awesome"0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »I tried a sorc on pts becausec I don't have one on life but try this one for escaping: 4x be and then boundless storm for 4 secs I was able to port through whole shadowfen to get the mana regen mundus stone without ever being too low on magicka I guess with higher regens you could even do 5 or 6 times be before you have to use boundless storm
You are aware that your Magicka regenerates faster outside of combat ?
Shure but I ported over the mobs in Shadwofen too so I was in combat 50% of the time and did not have the magicka regen from the mundus stone yet. I also did this later in the imperial city too. I just died once because I had a freeze the rest of the time I was always able to get away from the enemy no matter how many they were.
Then you're probably lying or exaggerating. You cannot blink through half of Shadowfen without taking a long break.
You can port a few times and then you're out. Of course you can move a long distance, when you only blink 1 or 2 times and then wait 4 seconds and do it again. But this won't be enough to escape in pvp.
I'm not saying, escaping isn't possible at all. But it is NOT possible with bolt escape only, never.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭pvpaddict42 wrote: »Right now there is a big disparity in class damage absorption shields and a lot of it is due to what resource pool they scale from. Sun Shield and Obsidian Shield (and their various morphs) scale off health where as Conjured Ward ( and it's morphs) not to mention non-class shields like Steadfast Ward and Annulment scale off magicka. This allows sorcerers specifically to double dip benefits by scaling up their defenses the more they increase their offense and resource spending power, where as the other class absorption shields are forced to either have weak/sub par shields in order to increase their resource allocation pool (actually have the juice to perform actions) or increase their health to beef up their shields, but then have little resources to perform actions.
As Conjured Ward is the only class shield that is not scaling off health, how about that get changed to be in line with the other shields, and if you wanted to change the non class shields to work off health as well, I think that would be good as well. Alternatively, if you don't want to go that route, then switch Sun Shield and Obsidian Shield over to scale off magicka as well. As it is, sorcerers can increase their defense substantially while ALSO allowing them to be able to spam the shield over and over again pretty much infinitely because everything is based around one resource pool, but the other shield classes are forced to split their resource pools preventing them from ever achieving any similar sort of level. This magicka based scaling on shields is also the cause of the very often mentioned topic of shield stacking.
In short, either make all the shields scale health or make them all scale off magicka. There have been many attempts to "fix" the shield stacking problem, which results in continued hammers to the class shields, but as long as this fundamental difference is there, you're just going to destroy the health based shields while only scratching the magicka ones. Having played a Templar for a very long time, I am rather unhappy that not only is the true source of the issue not being addressed, but yet am seeing double reductions in skills (Blazing shield which not only is losing shield absorption, but also is having it's damage reduced, so that instead of doing 50% reduced damage, it's doing 25% reduced damage...seriously...wtf). Please fix this, thank you.
I think the templar shield was designed to help templars tank, where the sorc shield was to help a DPS sorc survive. I don't mind if they change templars shield to scale off magicka, wouldn't bother me in the slightest.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American1 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »I tried a sorc on pts becausec I don't have one on life but try this one for escaping: 4x be and then boundless storm for 4 secs I was able to port through whole shadowfen to get the mana regen mundus stone without ever being too low on magicka I guess with higher regens you could even do 5 or 6 times be before you have to use boundless storm
You are aware that your Magicka regenerates faster outside of combat ?
Shure but I ported over the mobs in Shadwofen too so I was in combat 50% of the time and did not have the magicka regen from the mundus stone yet. I also did this later in the imperial city too. I just died once because I had a freeze the rest of the time I was always able to get away from the enemy no matter how many they were.
More importantly, how many players did you manage to kill? I cant imagine many sorcs will be joloing around IC without actually trying to kill players/npcs, collecting loot and achieving something.
Anyone can make a regen build with some cost reduction/engine guardian to get good magicka sustain, thats wonderful but it proves nothing. If you attack someone with such a build your attacks will slightly tickle at the most, your opponent will laugh, drink some coffee, hit harness magicka/vigor once and still survive. It will take ages to kill players/npcs which gives enemy players chance to set up a surpise attack or wait for reinforcements to arrive.
Now try the same thing with a high spell damage build (min 2.5k spell dmg buffed) while fighting a decent player, lets see how you sustain your magicka in a more realistic situation. Blinking multiple times with a regen build with a full magicka pool while being in combat 50% of the time is completely different than blinking while having 35% magicka, fighting a real player, being in combat 100% of the time and having sacrificed regen for damage.Edited by Septimus_Magna on August 9, 2015 2:57PMPC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »I tried a sorc on pts becausec I don't have one on life but try this one for escaping: 4x be and then boundless storm for 4 secs I was able to port through whole shadowfen to get the mana regen mundus stone without ever being too low on magicka I guess with higher regens you could even do 5 or 6 times be before you have to use boundless storm
You are aware that your Magicka regenerates faster outside of combat ?
Shure but I ported over the mobs in Shadwofen too so I was in combat 50% of the time and did not have the magicka regen from the mundus stone yet. I also did this later in the imperial city too. I just died once because I had a freeze the rest of the time I was always able to get away from the enemy no matter how many they were.
Then you're probably lying or exaggerating. You cannot blink through half of Shadowfen without taking a long break.
You can port a few times and then you're out. Of course you can move a long distance, when you only blink 1 or 2 times and then wait 4 seconds and do it again. But this won't be enough to escape in pvp.
I'm not saying, escaping isn't possible at all. But it is NOT possible with bolt escape only, never.
Read what I wrote before I put in boundless storm for 4 seconds to reset the costsPC,EU, EP
Der-über-Zwerge-springt (Argonian, Magplar), Surtur Velothi (Dunmer, Magdk), Jaqene H'ghar (Imperial, Stamblade), Puppyslayer (Orc, Stamdk), Dagoth Era (Dunmer, Magblade), Æthmon Trevas (Altmer, Magsorc), Der-Zuletzt-Lacht (Argonian, Magden), Sir-Lanzeflott (Redguard, Stamplar)0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »I tried a sorc on pts becausec I don't have one on life but try this one for escaping: 4x be and then boundless storm for 4 secs I was able to port through whole shadowfen to get the mana regen mundus stone without ever being too low on magicka I guess with higher regens you could even do 5 or 6 times be before you have to use boundless storm
You are aware that your Magicka regenerates faster outside of combat ?
Shure but I ported over the mobs in Shadwofen too so I was in combat 50% of the time and did not have the magicka regen from the mundus stone yet. I also did this later in the imperial city too. I just died once because I had a freeze the rest of the time I was always able to get away from the enemy no matter how many they were.
Then you're probably lying or exaggerating. You cannot blink through half of Shadowfen without taking a long break.
You can port a few times and then you're out. Of course you can move a long distance, when you only blink 1 or 2 times and then wait 4 seconds and do it again. But this won't be enough to escape in pvp.
I'm not saying, escaping isn't possible at all. But it is NOT possible with bolt escape only, never.
Read what I wrote before I put in boundless storm for 4 seconds to reset the costs
Then this debate was all for nothing
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Laggus✭✭✭✭pvpaddict42 wrote: »ZoS, can you please give breath of life or Dragonblood to Sorcerer ? Not ? Hm, I see.
No instead sorcerers get bolt escape, increasing mobility and giving the ability to get out of bad situations more quickly, similar to how nightblades get Shadow Cloak. In some situations it's more ideal and useful than heals, less so in others. Damage absorption shields however are in three classes, yet one class is scaling from a different source from the other two and it creates a problem. So level the playing field at least in terms of how the game mechanics are working.
Except Sorcerers lost Bolt Escape again, it's not feasible as an escape or mobility skill anymore now, only as a short aoe stun.
Huh? So being able to use it 5 times to move away that is not an escape mechanic? That moves you well away. With a cost for doing so. Sorry easy mode got a little harder[/quote]
You have no clue about this game, which I can easily see after reading your 4 double posts.
Use Bolt Escape 5 times, you'll be out of Magicka and it will take enemies 5 seconds max to catch up and then you're done. It's impossible to escape with Bolt Escape and if you say otherwise, then YOU're the one who is biased, uncapable to run a few steps (or too lazy) and has nothing on his mind than seeing other classes being nerfed to death because you are uncapable.
Don't dare teaching me, clueless one.[/quote]
It will take who 5 secs to catch up to a Sorc that bolted 5 times? Interested to see that unless..its another Sorc and guess what they will be out of Magika then too. Every one elses gap closers need to used when in range after your first bolt. How do you think its impossible to escape with BE now. Have you even seen PTS!! [/quote]
People pretend Sorcerers can escape with Bolt Escape only, which is a big lie !
On live, there is no reason to follow a blinking Sorcerer, because he can blink a long distance and will still have some Magicka to protect himself and to fight back.
But on pts, there are reasons to follow a blinking Sorc. Let him burn his Magicka with Bolt Escape spam, follow him and enjoy your free ap.
I usually follow them with Boundless Storm and then it happens.[/quote]
You see now I'm confused. Do you think because you have Bolt Escape that it should simply be a given that you escape?
On live you state no point in chasing a bolting Sorc but on PTS you say there is. Is your point that you should be able to get away everytime with the next update too and maintain the status quo? Which side of the fence are you going to land on? Your armour (assuming your light) is also getting a 100% boost next patch too by the way. Healing Ward math is being adjusted and like the devs said we'll see what this is like before they go back to looking at the crit damage to shields. I suspect they are keeping this in the pocket for a reason.0 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Do people even realise restro staff healing is almost same as templar heals for self healing? Combat prayer heals almost same as BoL and it gives armor and spell resist + bonus damage. And that healing ward is thousands times better than BoL. Templar mending passive has been nerfed big time in 1.6. It is no longer >>>>>>>> restro staf heals. Update yourself before making claims
This templar have heals argument is getting old seriously. Stop that. You sound funny.Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]3 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darnathian wrote: »Stalwart385 wrote: »I would prefer it to be setup like this:
All class sheilds are based on magicka
- Socrs have by far the strongest and most efficient because Hardened Ward is the purest shield.
- DKs are weakest because it is a group shield, and they have a class heal.
- Templars somewhere in the middle because it deals damage. The potential of the Radiant Ward in the right situation could be approaching Hardened Ward. They also have a class heal to consider.
All non-class shields are based on health.
- This prevents shield stacking.
- It gives high HP builds somewhere to look.pvpaddict42 wrote: »ZoS, can you please give breath of life or Dragonblood to Sorcerer ? Not ? Hm, I see.
No instead sorcerers get bolt escape, increasing mobility and giving the ability to get out of bad situations more quickly, similar to how nightblades get Shadow Cloak. In some situations it's more ideal and useful than heals, less so in others. Damage absorption shields however are in three classes, yet one class is scaling from a different source from the other two and it creates a problem. So level the playing field at least in terms of how the game mechanics are working.
Except Sorcerers lost Bolt Escape again, it's not feasible as an escape or mobility skill anymore now, only as a short aoe stun.
Huh? So being able to use it 5 times to move away that is not an escape mechanic? That moves you well away. With a cost for doing so. Sorry easy mode got a little harder
You have no clue about this game, which I can easily see after reading your 4 double posts.
Use Bolt Escape 5 times, you'll be out of Magicka and it will take enemies 5 seconds max to catch up and then you're done. It's impossible to escape with Bolt Escape and if you say otherwise, then YOU're the one who is biased, uncapable to run a few steps (or too lazy) and has nothing on his mind than seeing other classes being nerfed to death because you are uncapable.
Don't dare teaching me, clueless one.
And what do you think happens to us if we use mist form five times in a row? You all catch up clueless one. Lol. How can I be biased? I am a DK and have no escape, can't use my rediculous costing ultimate, soon won't be able to block, etc all because of the nb and sorc complaints.
The salt is strong from you. The fact that you still think you should be able to tank, kill everything, and then run off when it gets tough with no sacrifice is absolutely rediculous. You mAke your class look really bad.
Thank you Zos. Hearing these Demi gods whine for becoming mortal is awesome.0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darnathian wrote: »Stalwart385 wrote: »I would prefer it to be setup like this:
All class sheilds are based on magicka
- Socrs have by far the strongest and most efficient because Hardened Ward is the purest shield.
- DKs are weakest because it is a group shield, and they have a class heal.
- Templars somewhere in the middle because it deals damage. The potential of the Radiant Ward in the right situation could be approaching Hardened Ward. They also have a class heal to consider.
All non-class shields are based on health.
- This prevents shield stacking.
- It gives high HP builds somewhere to look.pvpaddict42 wrote: »ZoS, can you please give breath of life or Dragonblood to Sorcerer ? Not ? Hm, I see.
No instead sorcerers get bolt escape, increasing mobility and giving the ability to get out of bad situations more quickly, similar to how nightblades get Shadow Cloak. In some situations it's more ideal and useful than heals, less so in others. Damage absorption shields however are in three classes, yet one class is scaling from a different source from the other two and it creates a problem. So level the playing field at least in terms of how the game mechanics are working.
Except Sorcerers lost Bolt Escape again, it's not feasible as an escape or mobility skill anymore now, only as a short aoe stun.
Huh? So being able to use it 5 times to move away that is not an escape mechanic? That moves you well away. With a cost for doing so. Sorry easy mode got a little harder
You have no clue about this game, which I can easily see after reading your 4 double posts.
Use Bolt Escape 5 times, you'll be out of Magicka and it will take enemies 5 seconds max to catch up and then you're done. It's impossible to escape with Bolt Escape and if you say otherwise, then YOU're the one who is biased, uncapable to run a few steps (or too lazy) and has nothing on his mind than seeing other classes being nerfed to death because you are uncapable.
Don't dare teaching me, clueless one.
It will take who 5 secs to catch up to a Sorc that bolted 5 times? Interested to see that unless..its another Sorc and guess what they will be out of Magika then too. Every one elses gap closers need to used when in range after your first bolt. How do you think its impossible to escape with BE now. Have you even seen PTS!!
Don't mind him. The other sorc's bring up valid concerns or points. He just counters with whines and insults.0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭andypappb16_ESO wrote: »@Laggus
@Darnathian
I suggest you to read my long post with lots of answers people have when complaining about Sorc, including Bolt Escape therefore,too. It is on Page 3 of this Thread.
I have the feeling it could help you alot with understanding a sorc and why there cant be much more nerf.
I did. Valid points. I just don't have sympathy for him. He states in other posts about what dk's and temps have, gteen dragon blood, tanking, etc. all of which are being nerfed into the ground.
But God forbid his rediculouly op class can't be a tank, cannon, and still have the ability to run away with impunity.
I get it. It's tough to be unbiased. I remember when my dk was op. It was tough for me to see it. But you know when I realized it was?
It was when I realized every other class was all agreeing. Guess what? Everyone is agreeing here that sorcs (dk, temp, nb) are opEdited by Darnathian on August 9, 2015 5:24PM2 -
Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »I tried a sorc on pts becausec I don't have one on life but try this one for escaping: 4x be and then boundless storm for 4 secs I was able to port through whole shadowfen to get the mana regen mundus stone without ever being too low on magicka I guess with higher regens you could even do 5 or 6 times be before you have to use boundless storm
You are aware that your Magicka regenerates faster outside of combat ?
Shure but I ported over the mobs in Shadwofen too so I was in combat 50% of the time and did not have the magicka regen from the mundus stone yet. I also did this later in the imperial city too. I just died once because I had a freeze the rest of the time I was always able to get away from the enemy no matter how many they were.
More importantly, how many players did you manage to kill? I cant imagine many sorcs will be joloing around IC without actually trying to kill players/npcs, collecting loot and achieving something.
Anyone can make a regen build with some cost reduction/engine guardian to get good magicka sustain, thats wonderful but it proves nothing. If you attack someone with such a build your attacks will slightly tickle at the most, your opponent will laugh, drink some coffee, hit harness magicka/vigor once and still survive. It will take ages to kill players/npcs which gives enemy players chance to set up a surpise attack or wait for reinforcements to arrive.
Now try the same thing with a high spell damage build (min 2.5k spell dmg buffed) while fighting a decent player, lets see how you sustain your magicka in a more realistic situation. Blinking multiple times with a regen build with a full magicka pool while being in combat 50% of the time is completely different than blinking while having 35% magicka, fighting a real player, being in combat 100% of the time and having sacrificed regen for damage.
I used the light armor the template gave me so gold v14 cyrodiils light3x martial knowledge4x androitness2x and torugs pact 2x so no engine guardian for regen just the reg bufffood that was given and cost reduce glyphes on the jewelry.
So I had enough magicka and spelldamage for a decent shield and damage just a little low life compared to what Im used to on my other charactersPC,EU, EP
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Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You see now I'm confused. Do you think because you have Bolt Escape that it should simply be a given that you escape?
On live you state no point in chasing a bolting Sorc but on PTS you say there is. Is your point that you should be able to get away everytime with the next update too and maintain the status quo? Which side of the fence are you going to land on? Your armour (assuming your light) is also getting a 100% boost next patch too by the way. Healing Ward math is being adjusted and like the devs said we'll see what this is like before they go back to looking at the crit damage to shields. I suspect they are keeping this in the pocket for a reason.
Definately not I don't expect that and this has never been the case. I didn't escape everytime even when bolt escape had no nerf, escaping became more unlikely after the first nerf and now it's quite unlikely to escape.
I don't expect to get away all the time. I'm no the kind of Sorc who trolls Zergs anyway. I choose more wisely what I'm doing, so this nerf won't hit me as hard as many other Sorcs.Edited by Dracane on August 9, 2015 6:46PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »andypappb16_ESO wrote: »@Laggus
@Darnathian
I suggest you to read my long post with lots of answers people have when complaining about Sorc, including Bolt Escape therefore,too. It is on Page 3 of this Thread.
I have the feeling it could help you alot with understanding a sorc and why there cant be much more nerf.
I did. Valid points. I just don't have sympathy for him. He states in other posts about what dk's and temps have, gteen dragon blood, tanking, etc. all of which are being nerfed into the ground.
But God forbid his rediculouly op class can't be a tank, cannon, and still have the ability to run away with impunity.
I get it. It's tough to be unbiased. I remember when my dk was op. It was tough for me to see it. But you know when I realized it was?
It was when I realized every other class was all agreeing. Guess what? Everyone is agreeing here that sorcs (dk, temp, nb) are op
First, I am not a 'Him' and unlike most Sorcs, I have no sympathy for people like you, you tell ridiculous things about Sorcerers. Such as Bolt Escape being a great escape even in 1.7, which is not true. Everyone can now catch an escaping Sorcerer and if you don't, then something is seriously wrong with you. (I'm talking about bolt escape spammers. Using 2 blinks and use boundless storm to close the 4 second gap, then you still have good chances to succesfully escape. But it's not as effective as bolt escape spam)
I wanted Bolt Escape to get nerfed, I wanted Wards to be turned down a bit. It's not that I don't have insight for you and the others. I agree that Sorcerers are extremely annoying in 1,6, but there are limits. You exaggerate and all you want is your Nemesis class to get nerfed until it's free AP. That's what this Sorc QQ is all about and if other Sorcs play along, fine. I won't
Let's just wait for the next update and see how wards perform in Cyrodiil. Even if they are fine, people like you would still complain.Edited by Dracane on August 9, 2015 6:55PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭Wow so many assumptions about sorcerers flying around.
Sorcerers are not all op shield spamming, bolting PvP monsters... many play in pve, some are even stamina builds.
Although stamina built sorcerers are rare because there is nothing in the class to support stamina. This and the relative uselessness of heavy armour has pushed most sorcerers into light armour, where survival is entirely dependent on shields and escapes.
Now in pve they can do excellent survival dps, but not top tier straight up dps (well not for the average sorcerers)
In PvP they have excellent burst if timed well, good survival with shields and an escape. In IC the shields are currently bugged and magicka sorcerers are somewhat op because of it. However the sorcerers shield is required because they have 0 defensive passives, class heals are a bit difficult ult to use (or simply rubbish). Now should it scales with health? Maybe one morph - but let's see the effects of crits on shields and unbugged shields before we leap to conclusions.1 -
Laggus✭✭✭✭Wow so many assumptions about sorcerers flying around.
Sorcerers are not all op shield spamming, bolting PvP monsters... many play in pve, some are even stamina builds.
Although stamina built sorcerers are rare because there is nothing in the class to support stamina. This and the relative uselessness of heavy armour has pushed most sorcerers into light armour, where survival is entirely dependent on shields and escapes.
Now in pve they can do excellent survival dps, but not top tier straight up dps (well not for the average sorcerers)
In PvP they have excellent burst if timed well, good survival with shields and an escape. In IC the shields are currently bugged and magicka sorcerers are somewhat op because of it. However the sorcerers shield is required because they have 0 defensive passives, class heals are a bit difficult ult to use (or simply rubbish). Now should it scales with health? Maybe one morph - but let's see the effects of crits on shields and unbugged shields before we leap to conclusions.
I agree lets see whats the next patch does. ZoS have said they are not adding crit damage to shields now until they see how things go with the other changes they say they will make.0 -
Supernovas✭✭pvpaddict42 wrote: »ZoS, can you please give breath of life or Dragonblood to Sorcerer ? Not ? Hm, I see.
No instead sorcerers get bolt escape, increasing mobility and giving the ability to get out of bad situations more quickly, similar to how nightblades get Shadow Cloak. In some situations it's more ideal and useful than heals, less so in others. Damage absorption shields however are in three classes, yet one class is scaling from a different source from the other two and it creates a problem. So level the playing field at least in terms of how the game mechanics are working.
That's funny because I killed every single sorc that tried bolt escaping away from me last night...it was pathetically easy. Bolt Escape is no longer an escape. Once they bolt 5 times I know they're virtually OOM.
maybe u could recommend to these guys how u kill the sorcs?
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Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wow so many assumptions about sorcerers flying around.
Sorcerers are not all op shield spamming, bolting PvP monsters... many play in pve, some are even stamina builds.
Although stamina built sorcerers are rare because there is nothing in the class to support stamina. This and the relative uselessness of heavy armour has pushed most sorcerers into light armour, where survival is entirely dependent on shields and escapes.
Now in pve they can do excellent survival dps, but not top tier straight up dps (well not for the average sorcerers)
In PvP they have excellent burst if timed well, good survival with shields and an escape. In IC the shields are currently bugged and magicka sorcerers are somewhat op because of it. However the sorcerers shield is required because they have 0 defensive passives, class heals are a bit difficult ult to use (or simply rubbish). Now should it scales with health? Maybe one morph - but let's see the effects of crits on shields and unbugged shields before we leap to conclusions.
Agreed. Let's see how it works. After all, all we want is a balanced class system, where no class is totally superior which currently is the case with Nightblades and Sorcerers and where each class has a chance against the other when the player behind the screen knows what he is doing.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »Okay... well I always kill blinking Sorcs.
I will never understand, why people don't get it. What do you think, why Sorcerers shield scales of Magicka ? Because he is a mage, he has no self heal so he needs better protection ?
What do you think, why DKs and Templars shield scales of health ? Because they have strong self heals and don't need a strong shield. But Templar tanks need a strong shield, because their self heals are less effective when they have high health but low Magicka. So their shield scales of Health.
Same goes for DK, both classes are excellent tanks.
Pets, Dark exchane, surge and every dark magic ability heals yourself. So yea Sorcs dont have self heals...
None of those are reliable.
The reason shields aren't made equal is because all classes have different mashups of survivability skills that are or at least should be fundamentally equitable.
Also as an advocate for stamina sorcs I'd like to point out that we currently have no shields, whatsoever.Edited by Cathexis on August 10, 2015 12:15AMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
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Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
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Ultrawide ESO Adventure Screenshots - 7680 x 1080 Resolution
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Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »Okay... well I always kill blinking Sorcs.
I will never understand, why people don't get it. What do you think, why Sorcerers shield scales of Magicka ? Because he is a mage, he has no self heal so he needs better protection ?
What do you think, why DKs and Templars shield scales of health ? Because they have strong self heals and don't need a strong shield. But Templar tanks need a strong shield, because their self heals are less effective when they have high health but low Magicka. So their shield scales of Health.
Same goes for DK, both classes are excellent tanks.
Pets, Dark exchane, surge and every dark magic ability heals yourself. So yea Sorcs dont have self heals...
None of those are reliable.
The reason shields aren't made equal is because all classes have different mashups of survivability skills that are or at least should be fundamentally equitable.
Also as an advocate for stamina sorcs I'd like to point out that we currently have no shields, whatsoever.
Thats why we are asking to scale it from health. It can still scale better than blazing and ignious but it would be good for stam sorcs and there would be no mages running around with 14 k life in pvp still doing fine thanks to their shieldsPC,EU, EP
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Birdovic✭✭✭✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »
Thats why we are asking to scale it from health. It can still scale better than blazing and ignious but it would be good for stam sorcs and there would be no mages running around with 14 k life in pvp still doing fine thanks to their shields
@Springt-Über-Zwerge
As I suggested 2 people before, you also should read my Post on Page 3 (The HUGE one, cant miss it).
It answers many questions, including why Scaling on Health just CANT work for a sorc.
And I have to agree with you, scaling on Health benefits Stam Sorc BUT!
People dont understand its a little more than just changing the way a shield for sorc works and how it affects many other things.
Attempt and Thoughts to Overhaul Scaling, Attribute System and Enchantments
Improving the Sorcerer class: Ideas
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of Combat to feel awesome"0