Set Bonus Exploits Must Be Fixed

xANTIxMATTERx · August 2015

So glad to hear they are focusing on knocking out these exploits. As a veteran player, I pride myself on never partaking in them as I'm sure most of you in this thread do as well. It bothers me deep down that there are TONS of people walking around like they are beasts at this game when in reality they have cheated/exploited their way to achieving things. How can someone even feel good about their in-game accomplishments when it's all based upon exploits? Blows my mind...

Also, Imperial City is amazing. I just hope you devs know that Orsinium is expected to have AT LEAST one new trial if not more so that the PVE players aren't bored out of their skulls. Seriously great job ZoS, keep it up!

timidobserver · August 2015

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

So glad to hear they are focusing on knocking out these exploits. As a veteran player, I pride myself on never partaking in them as I'm sure most of you in this thread do as well. It bothers me deep down that there are TONS of people walking around like they are beasts at this game when in reality they have cheated/exploited their way to achieving things. How can someone even feel good about their in-game accomplishments when it's all based upon exploits? Blows my mind...

Also, Imperial City is amazing. I just hope you devs know that Orsinium is expected to have AT LEAST one new trial if not more so that the PVE players aren't bored out of their skulls. Seriously great job ZoS, keep it up!

If I were them I would do a mini patch that expands the current trials(new difficulty, new bosses, or something.) Nothing heavy, just alterations to make the current content more attractive to keep doing. Maybe an additional vet dungeon or two on top of that. That way PVE doesn't have to wait until December/January for any content at all.

xANTIxMATTERx · August 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

If I were them I would do a mini patch that expands the current trials(new difficulty, new bosses, or something.) Nothing heavy, just alterations to make the current content more attractive to keep doing. Maybe an additional vet dungeon or two on top of that. That way PVE doesn't have to wait until December/January for any content at all.

I completely agree. Scaling all trials to V16 would give people plenty to do and make for a fun and exciting environment on the trials leaderboards. Not to mention it would open up a whole bunch of new gear opportunities. If all the current trials pieces could be attained at V16, then that would add even more diversity to gear specs and builds and create even more fun for PVErs. All they need to do is fix the exploits that are leading us to the next leaderboard wipe and then scale everything up and this game would be in GREAT shape.

ToRelax · August 2015

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

So glad to hear they are focusing on knocking out these exploits. As a veteran player, I pride myself on never partaking in them as I'm sure most of you in this thread do as well. It bothers me deep down that there are TONS of people walking around like they are beasts at this game when in reality they have cheated/exploited their way to achieving things. How can someone even feel good about their in-game accomplishments when it's all based upon exploits? Blows my mind...

Also, Imperial City is amazing. I just hope you devs know that Orsinium is expected to have AT LEAST one new trial if not more so that the PVE players aren't bored out of their skulls. Seriously great job ZoS, keep it up!

I saw a map of the planned Orsinium at some point, that included an unnamed trial...

Alcast · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

It is imperative that these exploits are patched before IC goes live. People are using this to get double-mundus, Necropotence buff and god knows what other buffs it works with without even wearing the sets. I have yet to see anyone from ZoS Acknowledge this bug yet alone mention that a fix was in the works for it.

I'm tired of fighting people who I know are using these exploits and will even admit they are using them because "everyone" is using them. It's breaking the competitive environment that is necessary for an enjoyable PvP experience.

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can we get some kind of response on this? The rampant abuse of this exploit is getting ridiculous.

So you are saying that bug works with all the sets??

jeez, have to test dat lol

Radburn · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Should be fixed in the next PTS build.

Should does not inspire confidence in me. Then again it is better then saying it's fixed, when it is not.

These type of exploits are heinous in a competitive game and need to be given top priority. As was mentioned people will adopt these exploits and convince themselves using them is ok because everyone else does. Even if you're like me and refuse to use any of the exploits, just knowing about them helps you counter them (somewhat).

I spent gold and materials creating what I thought would be an awesome Templar tank with Heavy armour, shield, high health. I was getting smacked so hard and didn't know what was going on until I learned about the sharpened mace exploit. Since that day I have run 5 light and rely on the only thing that can keep me safe - Elusive mist form. I do ok now, but it was a very steep learning curve to get my Templar to work in PvP.

There are plenty of people who do not know about these exploits within Cyrodiil and dip their toes into pvp thinking it will be ever so fun. They get annihilated, wonder wtf happened to them and leave never to return. I'll admit there is a L2P element, but it is impossible to determine how much that comes into play until you get rid of all the exploits that create an unbalanced playing field.

sagitter · August 2015

Bored of disinformation and whiners that are complaining about maces,because sypher started to use it and all copyed him, when before none was giving a fu about maces, here are my tests with nb in pvp vs an opponent with 19k armor resist:
2 sharpened swords: light attacks 2.3k , surprise attack 7.5k
2 sharpened mace: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.1k
1shap mace+1 sharp sword: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.2k

2 precise swords: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
2 precise maces: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
1 precise mace + 1 precise sword: light attack 2k, surprise attack 6.7k

You can see here , maces have nothing op, they should provide 20% armor penetration with passive, but it seems not working with precise trait. There are multiple things that help you stacking penetration, and maces are not that big:
maces, sharpned trait, debuffs like surprise attack or mark, champion passive, weapon enchanting.

Forgot to say these tests are on live , and not pts.

Alcast · August 2015

sagitter wrote: »

Bored of disinformation and whiners that are complaining about maces,because sypher started to use it and all copyed him, when before none was giving a fu about maces, here are my tests with nb in pvp vs an opponent with 19k armor resist:
2 sharpened swords: light attacks 2.3k , surprise attack 7.5k
2 sharpened mace: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.1k
1shap mace+1 sharp sword: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.2k

2 precise swords: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
2 precise maces: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
1 precise mace + 1 precise sword: light attack 2k, surprise attack 6.7k

You can see here , maces have nothing op, they should provide 20% armor penetration with passive, but it seems not working with precise trait. There are multiple things that help you stacking penetration, and maces are not that big:
maces, sharpned trait, debuffs like surprise attack or mark, champion passive, weapon enchanting.

Forgot to say these tests are on live , and not pts.

How many CP do you have in Piercing armor?

sagitter · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Bored of disinformation and whiners that are complaining about maces,because sypher started to use it and all copyed him, when before none was giving a fu about maces, here are my tests with nb in pvp vs an opponent with 19k armor resist:
2 sharpened swords: light attacks 2.3k , surprise attack 7.5k
2 sharpened mace: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.1k
1shap mace+1 sharp sword: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.2k

2 precise swords: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
2 precise maces: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
1 precise mace + 1 precise sword: light attack 2k, surprise attack 6.7k

You can see here , maces have nothing op, they should provide 20% armor penetration with passive, but it seems not working with precise trait. There are multiple things that help you stacking penetration, and maces are not that big:
maces, sharpned trait, debuffs like surprise attack or mark, champion passive, weapon enchanting.

Forgot to say these tests are on live , and not pts.

How many CP do you have any Piercing armor?

i have 10 cps in piercing armor , about 5% pen.

Laggus · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Should be fixed in the next PTS build.

Excellent thank you. How about the Overload bar bug/exploit?

Edit: Didnt see other response until after i posted this. Makes me very happy you are looking into it and finally acknowledging it (thats been around for months).

Alcast · August 2015

sagitter wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Bored of disinformation and whiners that are complaining about maces,because sypher started to use it and all copyed him, when before none was giving a fu about maces, here are my tests with nb in pvp vs an opponent with 19k armor resist:
2 sharpened swords: light attacks 2.3k , surprise attack 7.5k
2 sharpened mace: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.1k
1shap mace+1 sharp sword: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.2k

2 precise swords: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
2 precise maces: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
1 precise mace + 1 precise sword: light attack 2k, surprise attack 6.7k

You can see here , maces have nothing op, they should provide 20% armor penetration with passive, but it seems not working with precise trait. There are multiple things that help you stacking penetration, and maces are not that big:
maces, sharpned trait, debuffs like surprise attack or mark, champion passive, weapon enchanting.

Forgot to say these tests are on live , and not pts.

How many CP do you have any Piercing armor?

i have 10 cps in piercing armor , about 5% pen.

put it to 0% and do the tests again

sagitter · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Bored of disinformation and whiners that are complaining about maces,because sypher started to use it and all copyed him, when before none was giving a fu about maces, here are my tests with nb in pvp vs an opponent with 19k armor resist:
2 sharpened swords: light attacks 2.3k , surprise attack 7.5k
2 sharpened mace: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.1k
1shap mace+1 sharp sword: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.2k

2 precise swords: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
2 precise maces: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
1 precise mace + 1 precise sword: light attack 2k, surprise attack 6.7k

You can see here , maces have nothing op, they should provide 20% armor penetration with passive, but it seems not working with precise trait. There are multiple things that help you stacking penetration, and maces are not that big:
maces, sharpned trait, debuffs like surprise attack or mark, champion passive, weapon enchanting.

Forgot to say these tests are on live , and not pts.

How many CP do you have any Piercing armor?

i have 10 cps in piercing armor , about 5% pen.

put it to 0% and do the tests again

it's a question or you have already tested it yourself? later i will anyway

Alcast · August 2015

sagitter wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Bored of disinformation and whiners that are complaining about maces,because sypher started to use it and all copyed him, when before none was giving a fu about maces, here are my tests with nb in pvp vs an opponent with 19k armor resist:
2 sharpened swords: light attacks 2.3k , surprise attack 7.5k
2 sharpened mace: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.1k
1shap mace+1 sharp sword: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.2k

2 precise swords: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
2 precise maces: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
1 precise mace + 1 precise sword: light attack 2k, surprise attack 6.7k

You can see here , maces have nothing op, they should provide 20% armor penetration with passive, but it seems not working with precise trait. There are multiple things that help you stacking penetration, and maces are not that big:
maces, sharpned trait, debuffs like surprise attack or mark, champion passive, weapon enchanting.

Forgot to say these tests are on live , and not pts.

How many CP do you have any Piercing armor?

i have 10 cps in piercing armor , about 5% pen.

put it to 0% and do the tests again

it's a question or you have already tested it yourself? later i will anyway

piercing affects armor penetration, so you have to set it to 0 to get propper tests. Talking Live server, dont know about PTS

sagitter · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Bored of disinformation and whiners that are complaining about maces,because sypher started to use it and all copyed him, when before none was giving a fu about maces, here are my tests with nb in pvp vs an opponent with 19k armor resist:
2 sharpened swords: light attacks 2.3k , surprise attack 7.5k
2 sharpened mace: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.1k
1shap mace+1 sharp sword: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.2k

2 precise swords: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
2 precise maces: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
1 precise mace + 1 precise sword: light attack 2k, surprise attack 6.7k

You can see here , maces have nothing op, they should provide 20% armor penetration with passive, but it seems not working with precise trait. There are multiple things that help you stacking penetration, and maces are not that big:
maces, sharpned trait, debuffs like surprise attack or mark, champion passive, weapon enchanting.

Forgot to say these tests are on live , and not pts.

How many CP do you have any Piercing armor?

i have 10 cps in piercing armor , about 5% pen.

put it to 0% and do the tests again

it's a question or you have already tested it yourself? later i will anyway

piercing affects armor penetration, so you have to set it to 0 to get propper tests. Talking Live server, dont know about PTS

May i add you friendlist, I'M on DC eu, Sagitter, so we could test it togheter if you want,but later, now i can't.

Alcast · August 2015

sagitter wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Bored of disinformation and whiners that are complaining about maces,because sypher started to use it and all copyed him, when before none was giving a fu about maces, here are my tests with nb in pvp vs an opponent with 19k armor resist:
2 sharpened swords: light attacks 2.3k , surprise attack 7.5k
2 sharpened mace: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.1k
1shap mace+1 sharp sword: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.2k

2 precise swords: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
2 precise maces: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
1 precise mace + 1 precise sword: light attack 2k, surprise attack 6.7k

You can see here , maces have nothing op, they should provide 20% armor penetration with passive, but it seems not working with precise trait. There are multiple things that help you stacking penetration, and maces are not that big:
maces, sharpned trait, debuffs like surprise attack or mark, champion passive, weapon enchanting.

Forgot to say these tests are on live , and not pts.

How many CP do you have any Piercing armor?

i have 10 cps in piercing armor , about 5% pen.

put it to 0% and do the tests again

it's a question or you have already tested it yourself? later i will anyway

piercing affects armor penetration, so you have to set it to 0 to get propper tests. Talking Live server, dont know about PTS

May i add you friendlist, I'M on DC eu, Sagitter, so we could test it togheter if you want,but later, now i can't.

ye sure

Sleeps-In-Trees · August 2015

Which overload bug are you guys referring to??

Aunatar · August 2015

So what about sharpened maces? We had confirmation on everything mentioned in this thread but sharp maces.

Night-claw · August 2015

Zos can you fix ambush to? plz im sick of every nightblade exploiting it to get into inner without breaking down postern plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz

Laggus · August 2015

Aunatar wrote: »

So what about sharpened maces? We had confirmation on everything mentioned in this thread but sharp maces.

ZOS_RichLambertZOS_RichLambert
mod
Could have sworn I already responded to this but I can't find my post!

We have a fix in for the next PTS build that resolves an issue with Battle Spirit where the damage/healing/shield values were not being calculated properly.

We're going to test this change before making any other changes to shields.

As an aside... we also fixed the armor penetration issue with the sharpened and piercing traits.

Alcast · August 2015

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

After doing a lot of testing of sets in the same way the Dual Mundus exploit works, I haven't found any other sets that retain when you replicate the way to trigger the Dual Mundus exploit.
Sets that I have tested so far (via the same steps as with dual mundus):
Way of the Air
Skirmisher
Ravager
Martial Knowledge
Beserker

I am continuing to test other possible exploits and immediately /bug reporting them the second I find them. I'm not sure if necropotence triggers the same way as the other, so there might be ways to get them to retain if there's a different way to trigger it, but I am unaware of it.

On the topic of these exploits, I'd like to urge people to report any players who actively use these exploits to their own gain (i.e, not ones who test it so they can report it/etc). Unfortunately Zenimax refuses any evidence you share if it uses addons that gather other player's Data such as FTC/S'rendarr/etc, so you can simply urge them to look at the players themselves- hoping they have the tools to look at these things internally.

It's extremely disappointing to have competitive play such as PvE Leaderboards and PvP combat totally ruined and stripped of all fun by people going out of their way to abuse these exploits to achieve things otherwise unobtainable. Here's to hoping that the days of exploiting are soon to be over, and we can finally see some real competition on fair grounds.

Tested Vicious Serpent and doesnt work, i guess you can add that to your list.

Soulac · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Should be fixed in the next PTS build.

SeptimusDova · August 2015

Ambush is the one that gets into the keeps?

Ezareth · August 2015

sagitter wrote: »

Bored of disinformation and whiners that are complaining about maces,because sypher started to use it and all copyed him, when before none was giving a fu about maces, here are my tests with nb in pvp vs an opponent with 19k armor resist:
2 sharpened swords: light attacks 2.3k , surprise attack 7.5k
2 sharpened mace: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.1k
1shap mace+1 sharp sword: light attacks 2.7k , surprise attack 8.2k

2 precise swords: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
2 precise maces: light attacks 2k, surprise attack 6.7k
1 precise mace + 1 precise sword: light attack 2k, surprise attack 6.7k

You can see here , maces have nothing op, they should provide 20% armor penetration with passive, but it seems not working with precise trait. There are multiple things that help you stacking penetration, and maces are not that big:
maces, sharpned trait, debuffs like surprise attack or mark, champion passive, weapon enchanting.

Forgot to say these tests are on live , and not pts.

Thanks for the testing.

It is good to see the issue is indeed with sharpened and note maces themselves.

Septimus_Magna · August 2015

@sagitter Just out of curiousity, what quality sworda/maces were you using?

Personally I find a 20% damage increase (from 6,7k to 8,1k) for abilities against fairly heavy armored target a lot for just a trait, quite OP compared to other weapon traits. Dont forget that this damage scales up with high damage builds, even spells get this boost from ignoring the resist of the target. 10k cystal frags becomes 12k, 8k curse becomes 9,6k, 12k prox det becomes 14,4k etc. This cannot be working as intended, dont you agree?

dsalter · August 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Should be fixed in the next PTS build.

Awesome!

With the recent updates you've filled us in on 2.1 Is shaping up to be the best major content release since the launch of the game!

WIll the Overload toggle-exploit be fixed with the patch as well or is that hoping for too much? It doesn't have nearly as great of an impact but it's been around for ages.

Not in the next PTS patch, but we are working on a fix and plan to have it out before this update is published.

just tell them to run a scripted debuff that when you cast said toggle it checks your hotbar for the next 3-4 seconds every 0.25 seconds if the skill is on the current hotbar, if true then buff stays, if false then removes buff.
would work for all of them

ScruffyWhiskers · August 2015

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Ambush is the one that gets into the keeps?

You have to time the teleport strike (ambush) perfectly so you go in the door with the enemy player.

A much more common approach was using a chain pull on an NPC at an outpost where the geometry oddly let you grab one of the npc guards on the first flag between the side doors. Instead of the npc coming to you, you went inside. I remember a not about this being tidied up but not sure. Haven't seen it happen in a while but I haven't been playing as much.

OGLezard · August 2015

I would like to see zos actually ban people on the pts for exploiting and on the live server.......pts should have a little leeway but if they never /bug it then ban em. @ZOS_RichLambert I know you fine people are busy and all, but you need to seriously start kicking in with the bans on the live server that are being abused right now. I mean no offense when I say this, but people feel they can just walk all over this company by abusing exploits because you guys do nothing. If you do do something it's a 24 hour temp ban and the people go right back to ot.

It needs to be permanent bans. Enough is enough. I love the direction you are going with this game and I will continue to support this company!!! Sadly I only have so much patience when it comes to watching known exploiters dominate in pvp because they and everyone else knows ZoS will never ban them. Prove them wrong!!!!!

Emma_Overload · August 2015

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

So glad to hear they are focusing on knocking out these exploits. As a veteran player, I pride myself on never partaking in them as I'm sure most of you in this thread do as well. It bothers me deep down that there are TONS of people walking around like they are beasts at this game when in reality they have cheated/exploited their way to achieving things. How can someone even feel good about their in-game accomplishments when it's all based upon exploits? Blows my mind...

Also, Imperial City is amazing. I just hope you devs know that Orsinium is expected to have AT LEAST one new trial if not more so that the PVE players aren't bored out of their skulls. Seriously great job ZoS, keep it up!

If Orsinium has a Trial, it better be a SOLO Trial.

dRudE · August 2015

So glad this is being worked on

sagitter · August 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@sagitter Just out of curiousity, what quality sworda/maces were you using?

Personally I find a 20% damage increase (from 6,7k to 8,1k) for abilities against fairly heavy armored target a lot for just a trait, quite OP compared to other weapon traits. Dont forget that this damage scales up with high damage builds, even spells get this boost from ignoring the resist of the target. 10k cystal frags becomes 12k, 8k curse becomes 9,6k, 12k prox det becomes 14,4k etc. This cannot be working as intended, dont you agree?

Yes i agree that a trait 15-20% damage increase is op compared to others trait, mace itself seems ok and with precise trait seems working good but i should try with axes for neutral bonus, because sword got +5% dmg increase, anyway there isn't any 100% defence penetration with maces themselves, because when i use surprise attack or mark to debuff i do more damage.I should do some more tests, but idk if to wait Imperial City to do it. I forgot to say i was using blue quality weapons and no buffs.