NB's are KING in Imperial City

Vatter · August 2015

If you haven't already I would highly suggest making or leveling up a NB for IC. It will be LIGHT YEARS beyond all other classes. lets take a look at why.

1. Most of the NB's are stacking armor penetration. All will have 25-30k armor penetration so even wearing 7 pieces of reinforced heavy armor and 100 CP's in heavy armor will give you no protection. Your armor will be reduced to 0. *(this seems to have been addressed)

2. Fear is without a doubt the best CC ability in the game. No other skill comes remotely close to it. It has a long animation so CC breaking is delayed and it even goes through block. THEN has an after effect of reduced speed AND reduced damage.

3. Shadow cloak mixed with path of darkness is the ultimate escape. You cannot target them, cannot attack them because they will be immune if you use detect pots, can't catch them (unless your a sorcerer then all you will be doing is aggroing npcs or use the insanely expensive retreating maneuver in which case you will just aggro npc's AND be short on stamina.) Mage light is worthless.

4. The damage reduction doesn't seem to be effecting the class at all. Because of the opportunity for so many escape options they are still stacking weapon damage through the roof. only requires an extra shot or (god forbid) 2.

5. Despite what many people try and say they can heal themselves more then fine. momentum, resolving vigor, resto staff bubble works better then my honor the dead.

LETS SUM UP.
1. unable to mitigate their damage
2. unable to block their damage
3. can't lock them down.
4. can't target them
5. best escapes (vanish)
6. cheapest ultimate
7. best mobility
8. best passives
9. able to fully heal themselves.
10. biggest damage dealer.

Definitely Roll a NB for IC. its a win.

I think a lot people are getting tired of this. except the nb community who of course will say L2P. To be quite honest I don't think I'll purchase IC with the state that classes are in. But thats just me.

Teiji · August 2015

I will wear 7/7 heavy armor and I shall look heroic as I do so!

Let the Nightblade menace come! I shall throw myself upon their blades a million timers over, they shall fear my unwavering, stoic 7/7 heavy armor warrior!

Let them reduce our armor to zero, let Sharpened be bugged even more with Imperial City, the heavy armor warrior enthusiasts with our Immovable Brute, stamina regen drinks and negative damage shall be unrelenting in our heroism.

Let them take our Alliance Points, let them choke on our Tel Var Stones, they shall never calm our fury nor have our souls!

@zos_eric if you give Dragonknight a stamina whip I shall buy you a drink! It's the only way us 0 heavy armor warrior-knights have a chance against the Nightblade menace.

Radburn · August 2015

Has the sharpened mace bug been addressed... ever? That is my main concern and it isn't exclusive to NB's.

MrGrimey · August 2015

So many false statements, I wouldn't know where to start

silky_soft · August 2015

Radburn wrote: »

Has the sharpened mace bug been addressed... ever? That is my main concern and it isn't exclusive to NB's.

Next pts patch

Vatter wrote: »

/snip

L2P

SkylarkAU · August 2015

9.9 times out of 10 when a NB jumps my unshielded sorc out of stealth with a fear/surprise attack combo I still have time to cc break and get my shield up without dying - this will be even easier in 1.7 so my response to OP is l2p.

In the case of macro NBs tho, well.. ಠ_ಠ

olemanwinter · August 2015

SkylarkAU wrote: »

9.9 times out of 10 when a NB jumps my unshielded sorc out of stealth with a fear/surprise attack combo I still have time to cc break and get my shield up without dying - this will be even easier in 1.7 so my response to OP is l2p.

In the case of macro NBs tho, well.. ಠ_ಠ

HAHA. excellent.

So, when you die to a NB you assume they use macros. And then you filter out that data and reach the conclusion that you kill 9.9 out of 10 NBs.

Classic.

SkylarkAU · August 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

SkylarkAU wrote: »

9.9 times out of 10 when a NB jumps my unshielded sorc out of stealth with a fear/surprise attack combo I still have time to cc break and get my shield up without dying - this will be even easier in 1.7 so my response to OP is l2p.

In the case of macro NBs tho, well.. ಠ_ಠ

HAHA. excellent.

So, when you die to a NB you assume they use macros. And then you filter out that data and reach the conclusion that you kill 9.9 out of 10 NBs.

Classic.

HAHA. righto.

Nice twist though.

lol.

Zsymon · August 2015

Except Cloak doesn't make an NB immune to single target attacks.

IxSTALKERxI · August 2015

1. Any class can do this. (it's also getting fixed)
2. Petrify and Encase also work against blocking targets and unlike fear they can be used from range. Rune Prison is now instant cast which is pretty effective now since not many people hold block anyway (similar to agony).
3. There are many ways to break their cloak, gap closes, toss caltrops etc. It's also the classes main defensive ability...
4. Again, this is the same for all classes. Infact templar jabs damage doesn't get reduced by battle spirit as much as they should be (also getting fixed).
5. Once again, all classes can do this.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

We all knew this would be the case. Now we just have to wait for the developers to know.

Radburn · August 2015

silky_soft wrote: »

Radburn wrote: »

Has the sharpened mace bug been addressed... ever? That is my main concern and it isn't exclusive to NB's.

Next pts patch

I can't find confirmation on this, was it mentioned by the devs somewhere?

SkylarkAU · August 2015

Radburn wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Radburn wrote: »

Has the sharpened mace bug been addressed... ever? That is my main concern and it isn't exclusive to NB's.

Next pts patch

I can't find confirmation on this, was it mentioned by the devs somewhere?

It was but I can't find their post in the other threads now - seems to have mysteriously disappeared !

Varicite · August 2015

Hrm, OP is talking about one of those crazy full spell damage / full weapon damage / magicka / stamina NBs that spams cloak / path all day long while stacking armor pen and resto staff bubble and one-shotting dudes from full heavy armor.

Has OP regen, resources, damage, armor pen, bubbles, heals, etc. All at the same time.

Watch out guys.

Rinmaethodain · August 2015

I agree with OP.

Its obvious IC is NB paradise, the perfect ground for gankers, PVP DPSes. People who can burst out damage fast and in any chance of fail they will just run away, dissapearing behind a corner in side corridor.
You can deny that all you want, but the fact people are rolling NB just for IC like crazy, looking for cookie cutter builds and copying chars from online guides is evidence itself.

ZOS loves NB, ZOS loves DPS, thats why they designed IC the way they did. Also thats why ZOS is consistently removing and/or nerfing any threat to NBs to help them maintain supremacy. Unjustified nerfs to stamina regen while blocking, because OFC DPSes didnt like when any pve tank who dared to step feet into cyriodiil could survive their initial 1 key-ko macro. Soon probably we will see nerfs to health, because NB dont need health so ZOS will think, why would anyone else need it (and of course DPSes dont like when someone has lot of health because how would he dare to still be alive when they are supposed to one shot kill everything).

stewie_801 · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Could have sworn I already responded to this but I can't find my post!

We have a fix in for the next PTS build that resolves an issue with Battle Spirit where the damage/healing/shield values were not being calculated properly.

We're going to test this change before making any other changes to shields.

As an aside... we also fixed the armor penetration issue with the sharpened and piercing traits.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just want to confirm that Shadow Cloak is not immune to detection potions.

Gonna say it from someone whose main is a DK. L2P. It's not hard to fight a NB on PTS. I've done just fine with my DK doing it.
I have zero problem breaking out of fear. Is it a good CC? Yes. Can you beat a NB who uses it? I can just fine.

Laggus · August 2015

Radburn wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Radburn wrote: »

Has the sharpened mace bug been addressed... ever? That is my main concern and it isn't exclusive to NB's.

Next pts patch

I can't find confirmation on this, was it mentioned by the devs somewhere?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/205037/set-bonus-exploits-must-be-fixed/p1

Look for the dev posts in the thread I linked. Happy days!!!

Aunatar · August 2015

A crying NB army appears, to defend the class screaming as loud as possible to cover every other voice!

Draehl · August 2015

You're not wrong on some of the points, but path of darkness? I think you pulled that one out of thin air. Nobody uses it except in certain PvE fights and you can gain major expedition from other sources that last longer or provide better utility such as Double Take. Also, if they're in a full heavy armor they wont be able to sustain but a few shadow cloaks... Oh and healing Ward is currently bugged FWIW.

Stick to criticizing the burst/escape levels where you're most credible (armor piercing is OP right now) and don't try to make some massive list to make your argument look better, only to achieve the opposite. Again, your core point isn't wrong, but don't try to dress it up with all these other auxiliary points that aren't true or relevant.

Master_Kas · August 2015

LOL path of darkness. Please use it in imperial city you'll have all the mobs on your ass, breaking your cloak while you're invisible and "immune to single target attacks"

Sharpened maces fixed soon, and is that somehow a NB issue?

This thread, someone is very salty....

yeso112860 · August 2015

I think there is some truth in OP statements but mostly exagarated.
On the other hand I encountered some imbalance last night. We all know the flare thing Allince War -> Support -> 3rd skill. I believe noone uses damaging morph but lingering flare even that has limited usage but I decided to give it a try. First few NB's were running like chicken after getting hit by it. Hard to get a hit but once you get a hit hidden one would get burned, that was what I thought. But stamina NB's starts to chain roll (not much issue due to roll nerf).
Magicka NB on the other hand, can still spam cloak just to fail hiding but bloody single target attacks still keeps missing and NB keeps moon walking and killig while staying in lingering flare blanket.
I wonder if thats intended.And yes I have 2 low level NB's I intend to level up.

Fornacis · August 2015

Vatter wrote: »

If you haven't already I would highly suggest making or leveling up a NB for IC. It will be LIGHT YEARS beyond all other classes. lets take a look at why.

1. Most of the NB's are stacking armor penetration. All will have 25-30k armor penetration so even wearing 7 pieces of reinforced heavy armor and 100 CP's in heavy armor will give you no protection. Your armor will be reduced to 0.

2. Fear is without a doubt the best CC ability in the game. No other skill comes remotely close to it. It has a long animation so CC breaking is delayed and it even goes through block. THEN has an after effect of reduced speed AND reduced damage.

3. Shadow cloak mixed with path of darkness is the ultimate escape. You cannot target them, cannot attack them because they will be immune if you use detect pots, can't catch them (unless your a sorcerer then all you will be doing is aggroing npcs or use the insanely expensive retreating maneuver in which case you will just aggro npc's AND be short on stamina.) Mage light is worthless.

4. The damage reduction doesn't seem to be effecting the class at all. Because of the opportunity for so many escape options they are still stacking weapon damage through the roof. only requires an extra shot or (god forbid) 2.

5. Despite what many people try and say they can heal themselves more then fine. momentum, resolving vigor, resto staff bubble works better then my honor the dead.

LETS SUM UP.
1. unable to mitigate their damage
2. unable to block their damage
3. can't lock them down.
4. can't target them
5. best escapes (vanish)
6. cheapest ultimate
7. best mobility
8. best passives
9. able to fully heal themselves.
10. biggest damage dealer.

Definitely Roll a NB for IC. its a win.

I think a lot people are getting tired of this. except the nb community who of course will say L2P. To be quite honest I don't think I'll purchase IC with the state that classes are in. But thats just me.

1. Armor pen is going to be fixed

2.Immovable pots/break free/immovable heavy armor skill

3.Detect Pots (Immovable detect pots combines 2 & 3), snare skills, dots, aoe

4.I will admit they still hit hard, but now you have time to react (Speaking from a 5 light armor perspective)

5.Heal debuff

Dont forget this one
6.New and unexperienced NB's=Squish

Nightblades are not an easy class to play. I have alot of respect for those that play it well.

Farorin · August 2015

NBs are easy to kill in IC. Use a revealing flare or even an AOE when they try go cloak, then they have no defense.

With the decrease in damage taken, it is even easier to take them out, as they can't one shot or two shot anymore.

NBs are easier to counter than any of the other classes, so if you refuse to do the things needed to counter them when those options are clearly there, don't complain.

Aunatar · August 2015

NOBODY said armor penetration on sharp maces is going to be fixed. Devs said they are going to fix armor and spell penetration Champion Points

stewie_801 · August 2015

Aunatar wrote: »

NOBODY said armor penetration on sharp maces is going to be fixed. Devs said they are going to fix armor and spell penetration Champion Points

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Could have sworn I already responded to this but I can't find my post!

We have a fix in for the next PTS build that resolves an issue with Battle Spirit where the damage/healing/shield values were not being calculated properly.

We're going to test this change before making any other changes to shields.

As an aside... we also fixed the armor penetration issue with the sharpened and piercing traits.

Sharpened is on the weapons, piercing is the champion point. Straight from Rich.

Soulac · August 2015

Vatter wrote: »

If you haven't already I would highly suggest making or leveling up a NB for IC. It will be LIGHT YEARS beyond all other classes. lets take a look at why.

1. Most of the NB's are stacking armor penetration. All will have 25-30k armor penetration so even wearing 7 pieces of reinforced heavy armor and 100 CP's in heavy armor will give you no protection. Your armor will be reduced to 0.

2. Fear is without a doubt the best CC ability in the game. No other skill comes remotely close to it. It has a long animation so CC breaking is delayed and it even goes through block. THEN has an after effect of reduced speed AND reduced damage.

3. Shadow cloak mixed with path of darkness is the ultimate escape. You cannot target them, cannot attack them because they will be immune if you use detect pots, can't catch them (unless your a sorcerer then all you will be doing is aggroing npcs or use the insanely expensive retreating maneuver in which case you will just aggro npc's AND be short on stamina.) Mage light is worthless.

4. The damage reduction doesn't seem to be effecting the class at all. Because of the opportunity for so many escape options they are still stacking weapon damage through the roof. only requires an extra shot or (god forbid) 2.

5. Despite what many people try and say they can heal themselves more then fine. momentum, resolving vigor, resto staff bubble works better then my honor the dead.

LETS SUM UP.
1. unable to mitigate their damage
2. unable to block their damage
3. can't lock them down.
4. can't target them
5. best escapes (vanish)
6. cheapest ultimate
7. best mobility
8. best passives
9. able to fully heal themselves.
10. biggest damage dealer.

Definitely Roll a NB for IC. its a win.

I think a lot people are getting tired of this. except the nb community who of course will say L2P. To be quite honest I don't think I'll purchase IC with the state that classes are in. But thats just me.

I'm bored, so let's go.

1) minor dmg debuff works fine on NB, also block works pretty well for 6 seconds.
In addition to that everyone can reach high armor penetration thanks to sharpened mace,nb is not special in that.
Nb got an ability which reduces your armor (major debuff). S&B got a skill which does the same so it's not unique.

2) as said above it works pretty fine. Every class got a fear-like ability ignoring block - and it's breakable.
A stun break isn't delayed under normal circumstances, it's just your latency and the game itself causing it sometimes.
Also fear is the most used one since it's AoE based, in 1v1 it's not better than other CCs.
You could also use immunity potions or roll in the moment a NB uses Ambush at you.

3) charge remove cloak, same with AoEs.
In case you don't have a charge, are you complaining about streak as well?

4) hit them out of cloak and you can. If you don't use skills for that or don't want to - deal with it.
Remember that Archers need to run a secondary weapon with melee abilities just to counter DK reflect.
The world isn't fair.

5) that your call vanish the best escape is stupid, you cant use it as escape mid battle since Sorcs will streak or have their AoE dot up, DKs got their AoE dot and Templars will jab you out of it. Against zergs it will break instantly since it's kinda buggy against many opponents.
Shadow Image is the best and if you don't know that please don't QQ about a class you don't know.

6) true, but it only deals slightly more dmg than our main dmg ability and is single target.
Also the cheapest is overload - also the most buggy one..
I'd rather have take flight in exchange for incapacitating strike since you can barely dodge it, deals a heck lot of dmg, is AoE, range and stuns. It's not all about the cost.

7) shadow image, yap. But based on situation sorc is equally good.

8) every class got good passives and I don't think NBs got the best.
We get recovery, DKs get instant ressources etc.
You could argue hours about it, but you can't simply say that NBs got the best.
That's not how it works.

9) we got a HoT which is only useful as Magicka build, but is useless against every build using shields and even then it won't heal you anywhere close to full health since it's ridiculous low.
Sap Essence is a small heal and based on the amount of enemys you hit. Mark will heal you for a huge amount if you kill your opponent - so it's nothing you can just easily get.
Nb has nothing comparable to BoL or Gdb - nothing.

10) based on what? Burst? Sure. Sustain? Ever heard of Templar DD? Templar is so underestimated.

NB is strong I won't argue about that, but the kings?
I call it now and you will see:
Wait for the good Templars as soon as pts go live and watch the world burn.

Armitas · August 2015

Vatter wrote: »

1. Most of the NB's are stacking armor penetration. All will have 25-30k armor penetration so even wearing 7 pieces of reinforced heavy armor and 100 CP's in heavy armor will give you no protection. Your armor will be reduced to 0.

Separating this from the NB for the moment. I kind of think armor penetration should have a cap just as armor actually has a cap. Someone wearing a full set of heavy armor is making a significant sacrifice for it, they should not be left with nothing for it.

Draehl · August 2015

Armitas wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

1. Most of the NB's are stacking armor penetration. All will have 25-30k armor penetration so even wearing 7 pieces of reinforced heavy armor and 100 CP's in heavy armor will give you no protection. Your armor will be reduced to 0.

Separating this from the NB for the moment. I kind of think armor penetration should have a cap just as armor actually has a cap. Someone wearing a full set of heavy armor is making a significant sacrifice for it, they should not be left with nothing for it.

Or even someone going 2heavy. It's to the point thats completely useless in PvP due to all the armor pen. It should be viable to be a magicka or stamina bruiser by using 5 + 2 heavy, but it's useless.

DDuke · August 2015

Hey @Vatter, you got three new letters: one starts with an L, another with a 2 and last one with P. Should I open them for you?

Everything you just listed are either: bugs that will be fixed, (just like undodgeable concealed weapon/whip, sorc overload bar bug, double mundus etc etc) or easily countered skills.

Cloak? AoE, detection pot (which I still think shouldn't make your main defensive ability useless). Not to mention, stamina NBs built for damage can cast this ability maybe 5-6~ times before running completely out of magicka.
CCStamina Drain? Break Free - 120+ days /played and I've never been killed during a CC, as long as I had stamina to break free (or didnt get bugged). Again, you can cast fear maybe 5-6 times before running completely out of magicka as stamina NB.
Huge burst damage? Nerfed next patch, even more so as they are fixing Sharpened Mace, which actually makes me a bit worried for stam NB damage potential.
Mobility? Yes, NBs are supposed to be one of the more mobile & evasive classes, unlike DK & Templar. Yet, I believe they lose clearly on this department to sorc Bolt Escape.

Also, you make several false statements on your post...

Best damage dealers are actually DKs, unless you specifically mean stealth burst. For out of stealth burst, NBs are outclassed by both Sorcs & DKs.
Do you really mention resto staff in your post about stamina NBs? No self respecting stamblade uses restoration staff abilities, which scale with magicka & spell damage. This is not 1.5. Also, why do you think your Honor the Dead (which scales with the aforementioned magicka & spell damage) should work well in a stamina build?
If you build for weapon damage, you will deal tons of damage - correct. You will also have very bad sustain, which means you have to use that cloak & sneak you complain about, in order to survive. Or tons of heavy attacks. There is no infinite amount of resources (infinite roll dodges, block, dmg shields, heals, dmg) when playing a damage dealer NB.
Why on earth would you be using Path of Darkness (again, benefits of that skilll do not scale well for a stamina NB) to escape as a NB, when you have skills such as Double Take, Rapid Maneuvers or a simple Panacea of Speed available to you? Path of Darkness actually reveals where you're going if you use it with cloak, and requires you to stay on the path.
I would swap my Fear for a Petrify in a heartbeat, so no, it is not the "best CCStamina Drain without a doubt"

I hate to reiterate but... L2P.
Or atleast educate yourself about stamina NBs and how they play before commenting - your post shows you have no clue.

eliisra · August 2015

But that really depends on dominating playstyles in IC.

If it stays solo, small or mid scale at most, like on PTS, than NB's will be the most played and with more edge than other classes. Mainly because of how Cloak allows you disengage/engage and play around with all the NPC's. Having Shades for teleport and mobility, makes it even easier. On PTS I could cloak mid-fight and run into packs of mobs. If the opponents wanted to catch me, they needed to AoE, run after and basically aggro all the mobs I just pushed through. Complete nightmare scenario for templar or dk.

However that's very unlikely to happen. I sadly predict the zergs to invade IC. NB's will be as screwed as everyone else. Will be lag, AoE's all over the ground, Steel Tornado times hundred filling an entire alley having a lil AoE party. NPC's will be camped, dead already. Cloak will never ever work, because Caltrops covering the entire city.

Fornacis · August 2015

Aunatar wrote: »

NOBODY said armor penetration on sharp maces is going to be fixed. Devs said they are going to fix armor and spell penetration Champion Points

Sooner or later it will be fixed, just like the old Nirn spell pen exploit