Tel Var Tombstones - An Alternative to Autolooting

Enodoc · August 2015

@wraith808 came up with a suggestion in the Tel Var Stones Feedback thread that I thought deserved its own thread. The basis of this is that a common piece of feedback from PTS is that gaining TV stones is not very clear - you know what your total is, but you don't really know how many you're getting per kill, or even when you're getting them.

For PvE mob/NPC kills, this is easy to address - instead of automatically being given TV stones for the kill, you should be able to loot the enemy for them just like you do for gold and items. The numbers would be the same, but you'd actually see the stones you're getting for each kill. This would mean you would have a clear indication of how many stones would enter the system from that kill. You'd also have the option to not take them, if you didn't want them.

PvP was my sticking point - but wraith808 suggested a clear and concise solution - player tombstones. Whether they are literal "tombstones" or not would be open for experimentation - for example, perhaps a pool of Azure Plasm would be more appropriate - but the essence of the suggestion remains. When a player dies in the Imperial City, they would leave behind an object that their killer would be able to loot for their TV stones, rather than having them transferred directly. The dead player would lose the appropriate amount (whether that be 100%, 80%, 50%, or whatever) when they die, but the killer would only receive them after going to the "tombstone" to loot them. This would mean killers would have to expose themselves from their hiding places in order to receive their rewards, rather than just accumulating them from the shadows without much risk. As an added bit of interest, I would also suggest that, if the dead player manages to get back to their "tombstone" before the killer loots the stones, that they would be able to recover them for themselves.

In short, an active looting system for Tel Var Stones would have numerous benefits over the current autolooting, as it would be more intuitive, more immersive, and more interesting, while still retaining the full purpose of the system.

Rastoric · August 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

As an added bit of interest, I would also suggest that, if the dead player manages to get back to their "tombstone" before the killer loots the stones, that they would be able to recover them for themselves.

Of course this would make "tombstone camping" a thing, but I like the concept

Enodoc · August 2015

monsterblitz wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

As an added bit of interest, I would also suggest that, if the dead player manages to get back to their "tombstone" before the killer loots the stones, that they would be able to recover them for themselves.

Of course this would make "tombstone camping" a thing, but I like the concept

True, but the killer would know that the kill-ee may come back, and the kill-ee would know that the killer is likely to still be around. The tombstone itself wouldn't be around for very long either - it would have the same despawn timer that an enemy NPC corpse does, since it would be functionally identical to one.

Tavore1138 · August 2015

I'd make it moe challenging for looters, give it a 3 minute timer during which the corpse can release or not.

During the timer the killer sees the lootable corpse highlighted an can come in and press 'F' too trigger a looting animation. If completed they get the stones.

If the player who dies releases the lose whatever percentage is evetually the baseline.

If the stay and either the looter is too chicken or they have a team of allies Willing to defend their remains then they keep their stones.

Keep it being a team game and make gankers take some risk.

Aunatar · August 2015

monsterblitz wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

As an added bit of interest, I would also suggest that, if the dead player manages to get back to their "tombstone" before the killer loots the stones, that they would be able to recover them for themselves.

Of course this would make "tombstone camping" a thing, but I like the concept

Isn't that risk&reward? Isn't that a counter to gank-camping?
This is a great idea and should be considered by the devs. Plus, getting the enemy's stones instantly does not make any sense at all.

Hiero_Glyph · August 2015

I suggested this originally and based on PTS I think it should be 10% autoloot (at least some reward for getting a kill), 90% claim from corpse (since this is where the risk comes from). I don't know if autoreturning unclaimed stones is possible or not but a marker should be placed giving each player a chance to reclaim their stones.

UrQuan · August 2015

I was chatting with someone in my guild, and she suggested that it would be good if you had to do some mechanism similar to resurrecting a fallen player in order to claim the TV stones from your kill. This would work nicely with the tombstone concept - the stones stay there until someone takes the time to collect them by holding down a key for long enough, being vulnerable to attack the whole time. It would definitely require testing, but it sounded like an interesting idea to me - adds a level of risk to trying to get those stones off an enemy.

wraith808 · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

I was chatting with someone in my guild, and she suggested that it would be good if you had to do some mechanism similar to resurrecting a fallen player in order to claim the TV stones from your kill. This would work nicely with the tombstone concept - the stones stay there until someone takes the time to collect them by holding down a key for long enough, being vulnerable to attack the whole time. It would definitely require testing, but it sounded like an interesting idea to me - adds a level of risk to trying to get those stones off an enemy.

Thanks for making the thread @Enodoc!

Yes, the time to loot addition was definitely a part of my original thoughts on it. The original idea came from the fact that this was supposed to be an extension of war- in war, there is looting. But the reason there is looting discipline in war is because during the looting (and pillaging) the forces are very much vulnerable. You can get around the negatives (have pickets to watch for enemies), but it takes planning, which is not typical of a gank squad nor a zerg.

The last thing that would make this totally awesome, and IMO break up some of mob mentality- TV stones 100% go to the person that loots the body. Whether that's the killer, or someone else. I originally thought that only the killer should get the opportunity for TV stones, but I think it makes it more contentious if anyone that loots the corpse gets the stones.

I do really like the addition of the ability to have some window where you can claim the stones off your own corpse. That's inspired!

sagitter · August 2015

agree, i prefeare an active looting instead of auto.

ToRelax · August 2015

I don't like it.
Not only for gankers it would be a problem to get stones from their kills before escaping, but anyone fighting outnumbered. When confronted with a force several times our size, my group will usually try to retreat step by step, the more overwhelming the enemy forces become. But what is it even good for killing all of them in the end if we had to leave their stones behind? In that case there is no point in holding any ground, better take no risk and run to kill the very few who follow that far.
As far as I can see, this change would incentivise large groups, in that players can cover their fallen comrade's stones.
That is exactly the opposite of what is needed now, especially in the Imperial City.

Farorin · August 2015

I personally enjoy the system how it is and would like it to stay how it is. It works, and it works well.

olemanwinter · August 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

You'd also have the option to not take them, if you didn't want them.

Color me confused. They don't even take up an inventory spot. Why wouldn't someone want them?

Enodoc wrote: »

This would mean killers would have to expose themselves from their hiding places in order to receive their rewards

This would also mean that anywhere near a spawn point (above or below ground) where "perpetual fighting" exists, you would perhaps never be able to gather your loot.

What happens when 4 EP players fight 6 AD players, and 5 AD die, but all the 4 EP die? Does the single remaining AD get all the stones from all the EP players that died, but even though more AD died (5) they all get to keep their stones?

Enodoc wrote: »

rather than just accumulating them from the shadows without much risk.

Is this honestly a problem lots of people are encountering? Getting killed by someone who disappears instantly? I've logged a lot of hours on the PTS and 90% of the time when I lose stones I watch the same people die and turn them back over in a matter of seconds or a couple minutes max. I NEVER see them just disappear. But maybe I've just been lucky. Or maybe I only lose to OP players that don't need to hide. lolol

Enodoc wrote: »

I would also suggest that, if the dead player manages to get back to their "tombstone" before the killer loots the stones, that they would be able to recover them for themselves.

That sounds like an amazing way to farm. It's like scroll farming in Cyrodiil but with a tombstone full of stones instead. Epic.......fail. :-/

Now, maybe I could get on board with this if it went the other way. You hold onto your stones UNTIL YOU RELEASE. That way if you get ganked and your buddy is coming up beside you he can either fight of the ganker or if the ganker runs away he can just revive you. In group combat, if your side is not yet defeated you could get revived and ultimately be victorious and keep your stones.

That idea, I would at least find compelling. But I can't really support the idea as currently expressed.
Honestly, this sounds like a very complicated solution to a very situational problem.

Tavore1138 · August 2015

@olemanwinter - Right now the surviving AD player would get all the loot anyway. In the proposed idea that player would be more liable to only be able to loot the players he killed and get the EP stones, the other 'wining' AD players might keep at least some of their stones... but equally some o0f the EP players might keep some of their stones if, for example, another EP team was approaching and the AD team needed to res and run before they got there.

In some ways you could argue it's a lot more 'realistic' as in an actual combat situation corpse looting is more likely to happen after a battle is completed not in the midst of the fighting AND it would be interrupted by a relieving force.

Darlon · August 2015

Don't like it.

This will only lead to bigger groups of people protecting each other's corpses. With this system the zergs will be running IC in no time...

Sharee · August 2015

I am not using a bow, and i get the vast majority of my kills at point-blank range (DW/2H).

I still think that the proposed system would be unfair to ranged combatants. They already are penalised (or are supposed to be penalized) for having long range by doing less damage (allright, allright, but it is supposed to work that way...)

olemanwinter · August 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

@olemanwinter - Right now the surviving AD player would get all the loot anyway.

Except you don't HAVE to remain engaged in combat until the "last man standing". With the proposed idea...you would.

Leandor · August 2015

@Enodoc Some thoughts to run around your head:

How do you handle the split? Similar to AP, the stones gotten from player kills are distributed to all players involved in the kill. Does everyone have to loot the "tombstone" or is it enough if one player does it and they get split out according to the normal rules?
If you make this animated, are the animations going to be interruptible? How can you get out in case you are attacked during the "taking" and need to defend yourself?
The longer the animation takes, the longer the stones must persist in order to give ample opportunity to get the stones.
What happens if you manage to defend a tombstone against enemies trying to loot them - will they go back to the initial owner or just disappear? In the second case, all stone cost would need revision since there is a high chance that not enough stones will be in circulation to ever buy anything.

Most of these could be resolved if you make the pickup immediate (press the key and you have them, no animation at all), have one person having to touch the stone only (which is necessary because as a healer in PvP, you seldom have the chance to be near the kill or have the time to run there to loot) and make them go back to initial owner automatically after 2 minutes or some such number.

On the other hand, these proposals would kinda defeat the purpose (e.g. to not being able to loot stones from spawn platforms, as discussed in the other topic, just group with one guy in stealth who will drop down, not engage in combat and loot for the group) for some things.

It may also become a problem in large scale battles, especially in the city districts where it literally takes no time to run back into combat and battles could last for a very long time. If you make the stones persist long enough for that kind of encounter, the ground would constantly be plastered with these.

Ace_SiN · August 2015

I'm all for Risk vs Reward games. I have to say I was surprised(and happy) that ESO was getting some type of risk added to its PvP content. It's a great idea, but the the risk is very one sided. I would say the problem is less about auto looting and more about the lack of risk for the ganker.

Example:
Player A farms up 200 stones in ~15 mins.
Player B kills Player A and immediately gets the stones
Player B lets the nearby mobs kill him within a few secs
Player B loses 10% of stones.
Player B safely banks 180 stones with 0 chance of Player A being able to get his/her stones back.

I'm more of Player B, admittedly. Why should I risk my haul when I can just pay my "ganking tax" and be on my way? Mobs should take a higher percentage when killing a player. I'm a hardcore PvPer, so i wouldn't mind if they took 100%, but I know that I'm probably in the minority for that. Regardless though, it needs to be raised.

Leandor · August 2015

Expanding on my previous comment: Even if you make it so that one group member can loot for all group members, what happens to the unorganized "solo-player-following.each-other-to-warzone"-zergs? These are not even grouped but potentially have 20, 30 or even 40 players eligible to loot a player. That tombstone will pretty much be there indefinitely, because in this case all have to loot individually.

All that said, I would really like to have a system that removes the autoloot-thing. If ways around those issues I listed are found, you have my vote, whatever that may be worth.

wraith808 · August 2015

Leandor wrote: »

@Enodoc Some thoughts to run around your head:
How do you handle the split? Similar to AP, the stones gotten from player kills are distributed to all players involved in the kill. Does everyone have to loot the "tombstone" or is it enough if one player does it and they get split out according to the normal rules?

If you make this animated, are the animations going to be interruptible? How can you get out in case you are attacked during the "taking" and need to defend yourself?

The longer the animation takes, the longer the stones must persist in order to give ample opportunity to get the stones.

What happens if you manage to defend a tombstone against enemies trying to loot them - will they go back to the initial owner or just disappear? In the second case, all stone cost would need revision since there is a high chance that not enough stones will be in circulation to ever buy anything.

Most of these could be resolved if you make the pickup immediate (press the key and you have them, no animation at all), have one person having to touch the stone only (which is necessary because as a healer in PvP, you seldom have the chance to be near the kill or have the time to run there to loot) and make them go back to initial owner automatically after 2 minutes or some such number.

On the other hand, these proposals would kinda defeat the purpose (e.g. to not being able to loot stones from spawn platforms, as discussed in the other topic, just group with one guy in stealth who will drop down, not engage in combat and loot for the group) for some things.

It may also become a problem in large scale battles, especially in the city districts where it literally takes no time to run back into combat and battles could last for a very long time. If you make the stones persist long enough for that kind of encounter, the ground would constantly be plastered with these.

@Leandor - I'll answer, from the perspective of my original thoughts on it.

(1) how do you handle the split?

You don't. Most of the groups that are roaming around making it 1vX are doing it out of self interest. They get a split of the goods automatically. Just like any other farming group. In my mind, you also take out the split. Whomever takes the risk of looting the corpse gets the goods.

(2) If you make this animated, are the animations going to be interruptible? How can you get out in case you are attacked during the "taking" and need to defend yourself?

yes, the animation would be interruptible, by you and you alone. Sort of like the animation for rezzing. If you think, hey I'm almost at the end, and this guy's a scrub- then you take the chance. If you think, I'm getting my butt handed to me- you abandon and retreat.

(3) The longer the animation takes, the longer the stones must persist in order to give ample opportunity to get the stones.

Yes, that is true. The timing on it would need to be tweaked, but I don't see that as an insurmountable obstacle- just something to be tested.

(4) What happens if you manage to defend a tombstone against enemies trying to loot them - will they go back to the initial owner or just disappear? In the second case, all stone cost would need revision since there is a high chance that not enough stones will be in circulation to ever buy anything.

The stones can be looted by anyone. The killer, other allies of the killer, or other allies of the killee. They're free for anyone as long as the gravestone is there.

Sharee wrote: »

I am not using a bow, and i get the vast majority of my kills at point-blank range (DW/2H).

I still think that the proposed system would be unfair to ranged combatants. They already are penalised (or are supposed to be penalized) for having long range by doing less damage (allright, allright, but it is supposed to work that way...)

I think it's making them take a risk. Properly prepared, a bow user can take out a target without the opportunity for response. If they also don't have to take risk to get the stones (they magically appear as they do now), then the risk involved for the bow user is minimized. That's what I don't think is fair. Even as a bow user.

Leandor · August 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

The stones can be looted by anyone. The killer, other allies of the killer, or other allies of the killee. They're free for anyone as long as the gravestone is there.

While I don't agree with some of the points you make, I'll rather think more about it than comment now, except for this one.

This one I do not like at all. It will be a sport to let others, also from your own faction, engage in combat while staying aside (more hatred for cloak, btw) and then pick up the spoils while the other participants are engaged. That not only creates too much of an opportunistic environment, it also has a large potential to create a toxic environment even within your own faction.

No, I am firmly of the opinion that the tombstones shall only ever be visible and interactive for those that would get the stones in the current system, with the sole exception of the initial owner, who would get the option to recover them if he'd be back fast enough and the opponents didn't take them.

Tavore1138 · August 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

@olemanwinter - Right now the surviving AD player would get all the loot anyway.

Except you don't HAVE to remain engaged in combat until the "last man standing". With the proposed idea...you would.

True - and maybe that is how it should be?

Why should you be able to lurk around the edges of a fight, snipe someone at low health and then leg it with all their stones without taking the risk of having to come get the loot yourself.

Either people wanting looting are noble warriors seeking the rush of risk or reward or they are not... and if not the justification for even having the loot system starts to look a little shaky.

UrQuan · August 2015

I find the objections to this idea interesting, because almost without exception they are objecting to making the looting of TV stones much more like looting bodies on a battlefield in real life.

If you kill someone at range it's harder to loot their body? Yup. Just like in real life battles throughout history.

If you kill someone in an area where there's constant/nearly constant fighting it's harder to loot the body? Yup. Just like in real life battles throughout history.

If your side of the battle kills more people than the enemy side does, but they had more to start with and end up with some surviving to hold the battlefield they get to loot the dead and you don't? Yup. Just like in real life battles throughout history.

Enodoc · August 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

I don't like it.
Not only for gankers it would be a problem to get stones from their kills before escaping, but anyone fighting outnumbered.

That's the same risk as looting your rewards from mobs. Getting your reward from players shouldn't be any easier than that.

olemanwinter wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

You'd also have the option to not take them, if you didn't want them.

Color me confused. They don't even take up an inventory spot. Why wouldn't someone want them?

If you don't have any, enemies can't take them from you. If you don't want what they're selling in the Tel Var Stores, they're useless.

olemanwinter wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

This would mean killers would have to expose themselves from their hiding places in order to receive their rewards

This would also mean that anywhere near a spawn point (above or below ground) where "perpetual fighting" exists, you would perhaps never be able to gather your loot.

That's risk/reward. If you can't be bothered to take the risk to leave the spawn point to get the reward, you don't deserve one.

olemanwinter wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

I would also suggest that, if the dead player manages to get back to their "tombstone" before the killer loots the stones, that they would be able to recover them for themselves.

That sounds like an amazing way to farm. It's like scroll farming in Cyrodiil but with a tombstone full of stones instead. Epic.......fail. :-/

Not sure how that would be farmable, or what anyone would be farming. It's exactly the same as it is now except that the killer has to actively go to recover the stones.

olemanwinter wrote: »

Now, maybe I could get on board with this if it went the other way. You hold onto your stones UNTIL YOU RELEASE. That way if you get ganked and your buddy is coming up beside you he can either fight of the ganker or if the ganker runs away he can just revive you. In group combat, if your side is not yet defeated you could get revived and ultimately be victorious and keep your stones.

That would be unnecessary. Your buddy would revive you and you'd loot your own tombstone to get your stones back.

Darlon wrote: »

Don't like it.

This will only lead to bigger groups of people protecting each other's corpses. With this system the zergs will be running IC in no time...

What's the benefit of protecting a corpse? If there are enough allies of the deceased, the killer won't get away anyway.

Leandor wrote: »

@Enodoc Some thoughts to run around your head:
How do you handle the split? Similar to AP, the stones gotten from player kills are distributed to all players involved in the kill. Does everyone have to loot the "tombstone" or is it enough if one player does it and they get split out according to the normal rules?

If you make this animated, are the animations going to be interruptible? How can you get out in case you are attacked during the "taking" and need to defend yourself?

The longer the animation takes, the longer the stones must persist in order to give ample opportunity to get the stones.

What happens if you manage to defend a tombstone against enemies trying to loot them - will they go back to the initial owner or just disappear? In the second case, all stone cost would need revision since there is a high chance that not enough stones will be in circulation to ever buy anything.

The split would occur automatically, just like it does with groups killing NPCs. Everyone has to loot the tombstone to get their reward.
I was thinking it would just be like looting a mob, so the only "animation" is bending down to the body and waiting for the loot window. If you have auto-loot turned on, this would be skipped as usual.
I was thinking the tombstone would persist for the standard length of time that a monster corpse does; not sure what that is, but it's probably 60-90 seconds.
If the tombstone is not looted by the killer or the original owner, the stones in it disappear. Yes this will remove stones from the system, but stones can disappear from the system through mobs killing players anyway.

wraith808 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

I am not using a bow, and i get the vast majority of my kills at point-blank range (DW/2H).

I still think that the proposed system would be unfair to ranged combatants. They already are penalised (or are supposed to be penalized) for having long range by doing less damage (allright, allright, but it is supposed to work that way...)

I think it's making them take a risk. Properly prepared, a bow user can take out a target without the opportunity for response. If they also don't have to take risk to get the stones (they magically appear as they do now), then the risk involved for the bow user is minimized. That's what I don't think is fair. Even as a bow user.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Why should you be able to lurk around the edges of a fight, snipe someone at low health and then leg it with all their stones without taking the risk of having to come get the loot yourself.

Either people wanting looting are noble warriors seeking the rush of risk or reward or they are not... and if not the justification for even having the loot system starts to look a little shaky.

Just wanted to add that I agree with these. The point of this proposal is to increase the risk for those people hiding at the edges, who are currently getting high rewards for low risk.

Ace_SiN wrote: »

I'm all for Risk vs Reward games. I have to say I was surprised(and happy) that ESO was getting some type of risk added to its PvP content. It's a great idea, but the the risk is very one sided. I would say the problem is less about auto looting and more about the lack of risk for the ganker.

Example:
Player A farms up 200 stones in ~15 mins.
Player B kills Player A and immediately gets the stones
Player B lets the nearby mobs kill him within a few secs
Player B loses 10% of stones.
Player B safely banks 180 stones with 0 chance of Player A being able to get his/her stones back.

I'm more of Player B, admittedly. Why should I risk my haul when I can just pay my "ganking tax" and be on my way? Mobs should take a higher percentage when killing a player. I'm a hardcore PvPer, so i wouldn't mind if they took 100%, but I know that I'm probably in the minority for that. Regardless though, it needs to be raised.

I agree with this. The current 10% "mob tax" seems to be removing the essence of the danger of getting back to base with your haul of stones. The "mob tax" needs to be higher so people are discouraged from using it as a quick escape. Perhaps lower difficulty mobs should give more stones to balance it, but I think the amount that is lost to a mob should be much closer to the amount lost to a player. For example - 50% loss in a PvE death, 75% loss in a PvP death.

wraith808 · August 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Ace_SiN wrote: »

I'm all for Risk vs Reward games. I have to say I was surprised(and happy) that ESO was getting some type of risk added to its PvP content. It's a great idea, but the the risk is very one sided. I would say the problem is less about auto looting and more about the lack of risk for the ganker.

Example:
Player A farms up 200 stones in ~15 mins.
Player B kills Player A and immediately gets the stones
Player B lets the nearby mobs kill him within a few secs
Player B loses 10% of stones.
Player B safely banks 180 stones with 0 chance of Player A being able to get his/her stones back.

I'm more of Player B, admittedly. Why should I risk my haul when I can just pay my "ganking tax" and be on my way? Mobs should take a higher percentage when killing a player. I'm a hardcore PvPer, so i wouldn't mind if they took 100%, but I know that I'm probably in the minority for that. Regardless though, it needs to be raised.

I agree with this. The current 10% "mob tax" seems to be removing the essence of the danger of getting back to base with your haul of stones. The "mob tax" needs to be higher so people are discouraged from using it as a quick escape. Perhaps lower difficulty mobs should give more stones to balance it, but I think the amount that is lost to a mob should be much closer to the amount lost to a player. For example - 50% loss in a PvE death, 75% loss in a PvP death.

I agree with this also! Otherwise, you're just creating another instance of blood porting.

Leandor · August 2015

@Enodoc
Thanks for the replies. One direct remark: As you yourself said, a PvE death costs you 10% and takes you back to store your stones. A PvP death costs you all. Thus, making the tombstones disappear and remove all stones will have a ten times stronger influence on stone economy.

Disappearing is a bad idea.

Tavore1138 · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

I find the objections to this idea interesting, because almost without exception they are objecting to making the looting of TV stones much more like looting bodies on a battlefield in real life.

If you kill someone at range it's harder to loot their body? Yup. Just like in real life battles throughout history.

If you kill someone in an area where there's constant/nearly constant fighting it's harder to loot the body? Yup. Just like in real life battles throughout history.

If your side of the battle kills more people than the enemy side does, but they had more to start with and end up with some surviving to hold the battlefield they get to loot the dead and you don't? Yup. Just like in real life battles throughout history.

Full marks - if the devs want risk/reward play then this works - if they want to reward risk free chicken ganky styles then they should just admit it so we can withdraw our subs and punish them for spoiling the game.

Stalwart385 · August 2015

I think this is interesting and would probably prefer it but it comes with its own set of issues and wouldn't really fix anything.

I do like the idea mentioned here of not loosing your TV stones if you are rezed.

Sharee · August 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I don't like it.
Not only for gankers it would be a problem to get stones from their kills before escaping, but anyone fighting outnumbered.

That's the same risk as looting your rewards from mobs. Getting your reward from players shouldn't be any easier than that.

I have to disagree with you there.

Trying to loot a dead corpse in the middle of 4 enemy players is nowhere near the same risk as trying to loot a dead corpse in the middle of 4 mobs.

Enodoc · August 2015

Leandor wrote: »

@Enodoc
Thanks for the replies. One direct remark: As you yourself said, a PvE death costs you 10% and takes you back to store your stones. A PvP death costs you all. Thus, making the tombstones disappear and remove all stones will have a ten times stronger influence on stone economy.

Disappearing is a bad idea.

From what I have seen so far, the number of stones in the system is quite high, so I don't think an extra sink is much of a problem. But I agree with the principle of what you said, which is why I also think that the amount lost in a PvE death should be closer to the amount lost in a PvP death. Ideally, they would be the same (at, say, 50-67% for either).

Sharee wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I don't like it.
Not only for gankers it would be a problem to get stones from their kills before escaping, but anyone fighting outnumbered.

That's the same risk as looting your rewards from mobs. Getting your reward from players shouldn't be any easier than that.

I have to disagree with you there.

Trying to loot a dead corpse in the middle of 4 enemy players is nowhere near the same risk as trying to loot a dead corpse in the middle of 4 mobs.

Maybe so, but that's still the same risk as looting a mob corpse in the middle of 4 enemy players, which was what I was getting at.

Sharee · August 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I don't like it.
Not only for gankers it would be a problem to get stones from their kills before escaping, but anyone fighting outnumbered.

That's the same risk as looting your rewards from mobs. Getting your reward from players shouldn't be any easier than that.

I have to disagree with you there.

Trying to loot a dead corpse in the middle of 4 enemy players is nowhere near the same risk as trying to loot a dead corpse in the middle of 4 mobs.

Maybe so, but that's still the same risk as looting a mob corpse in the middle of 4 enemy players, which was what I was getting at.

I see. However, getting TV stones from mobs does not require you to actually loot them. You get the stones as soon as the mob dies, regardless of whether the corpse has any additional loot on it or not. So getting your TV stone reward from players isn't any easier than getting them from mobs, like you suggested.