Dedicated Imperial City Dungeons Feedback Thread

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · July 2015

Hi everyone!

We hope you are enjoying the Imperial City DLC game pack and base-game patch on the PTS, and would appreciate your feedback for the Imperial City Prison and White-Gold Tower dungeons. Answering the following questions would be especially helpful:

What did you think about the difficulty in Normal mode?
What did you think about the difficulty in Veteran mode?
What did you think of the loot?
What was your favorite boss (in either Dungeon) and why did you enjoy it?
What gave your group the most frustration?

If you haven't played the dungeons on PTS yet, we encourage you to do so. We recommend starting on Normal mode to experience the content, then try out Veteran mode if you're looking for a real challenge.

Thank you!

Fecius · July 2015

1. In my opinion, normal is pretty good. It's not too hard but not too easy.
2. Speaking about WGT: I guess that for a 4-people dungeon it's really nice! Wow, I was so happy to try it. The only sad thing for me is that the amout of CP will auto-nerf it with time. But it has a lot of new mechanics for this game, and it makes me hope that next trial will be unforgettable!
3. To tell the true, I've found not that much valuable loot yet, but I know one thing. Most of the brand new sets got really useful stats and it's what we needed. But it's early to talk about 5th set bonuses. Time will show. On paper it's O.K.
4. Molag Kena is good. It's easy to understand but hard to pass. On the contrary The Planar Inhibitor is hard to understand but so fun to play with.
5. The most frustration... Well some of us are sad that we have to play template characters. But as for me, I'm frustrated about the fact of my 500CP and it would not be THAT fun on live as it was for 300CP character.

Here is short video of boss fights with our group. We are for EU Megaserver so have to use 300 CP templates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv8Pv2D8yME

P.S.: Next time I will talk more about ICP Veteran as soon as we run it.

Enodoc · August 2015

Question; is it possible to get a Bronze key from either of the two new pledges if you do only the minimum in the Normal version dungeon, or is Silver the lowest you can get anyway?

ZOS_The_Adoring_Fan · August 2015

Great question, Enodoc. Silver Keys are indeed the base reward in these two dungeons for pledge completion. The Gold Key can only be earned in veteran mode, but if you kill all three bosses then you will get the Silver key, regardless of version. There is no Bronze Key reward for these.

omfgitsbatman · August 2015

My impressions of the vet dungeons:

White Gold Tower is amazing. Beautifully designed graphically. The encounters are very unique and fun. They are pretty difficult, but not impossble for a decent group. The flame atro boss is pretty tough and will probably be the largest hurdle for most groups.

Prison - What I have seen looks pretty cool. I have now been in vet prison on 4 different nights- 3 of them being with the same group. I have a group of people that can do anything on the live server with extreme ease. We have attempted the 2nd boss of Vet Prison at least 100 times using every strategy we can think of. The only strategy that has come close to working is ignoring all mechanics and burning the boss as fast as possible using 3 dps and 1 tank no healer.
The most successful that we have been on any other tactic is having 2 people throwing bombs at the humanoids and 1 person dpsing the atros and the boss. This way is very flawed though because of tenderize. If any group member gets tenderized, it has the potential to go bad very quickly. If it's one of the bomb crew, you fall behind on the bombs and get overrun with atros. If it's the atro dps, then the atro enrages. If it's the tank, then he can easilly die while being tenderized and beat on by an atro.

It is not worth throwing the bombs at the atros unless you can wipe out humanoids in the process. The bombs simply don't do enough damage to warrant losing a dps to them unless it's for the humanoids.

I can frankly say that if my group was having this kind of trouble, it will be impossible for 99% of other groups.

I don't think either of these dungeons will be doable by any sort of pick up group for a long time. They take a lot of coordination that make voice chat all but mandatory.

Dunkmeister · August 2015

We just tried Vet White Tower Vet again last night and the pinion mechanic on boss 3 is still SUPER buggy. The boss would aggro the wrong person at the start of the fight on occasion despite the right person clicking the pinion. When party members would click on the pinion, the animation locks your character so you cant dodge the fire aoes on the pad, sometimes it took multiple spams on the pinion to get it to activate. It's just not ready to go live. You really need to spend some time on this boss fight and clean it up before it goes live. It's still so damn buggy, and with only 2 dungeons for PVE'rs to play on in this upcoming patch its only fair that you do give it some time and fix these issues.

That said, the visuals on the dungeons are awesome. I do, really like the new mechanics (enraging flesh atros, phasing monsters, mini trash boss fights, lockbreaking, etc). Those are very cool. I like the challenge of the vet dungeons, but it just needs to run smoother and less buggy.

schroed360 · August 2015

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

My impressions of the vet dungeons:

White Gold Tower is amazing. Beautifully designed graphically. The encounters are very unique and fun. They are pretty difficult, but not impossble for a decent group. The flame atro boss is pretty tough and will probably be the largest hurdle for most groups.

Prison - What I have seen looks pretty cool. I have now been in vet prison on 4 different nights- 3 of them being with the same group. I have a group of people that can do anything on the live server with extreme ease. We have attempted the 2nd boss of Vet Prison at least 100 times using every strategy we can think of. The only strategy that has come close to working is ignoring all mechanics and burning the boss as fast as possible using 3 dps and 1 tank no healer.
The most successful that we have been on any other tactic is having 2 people throwing bombs at the humanoids and 1 person dpsing the atros and the boss. This way is very flawed though because of tenderize. If any group member gets tenderized, it has the potential to go bad very quickly. If it's one of the bomb crew, you fall behind on the bombs and get overrun with atros. If it's the atro dps, then the atro enrages. If it's the tank, then he can easilly die while being tenderized and beat on by an atro.

It is not worth throwing the bombs at the atros unless you can wipe out humanoids in the process. The bombs simply don't do enough damage to warrant losing a dps to them unless it's for the humanoids.

I can frankly say that if my group was having this kind of trouble, it will be impossible for 99% of other groups.

I don't think either of these dungeons will be doable by any sort of pick up group for a long time. They take a lot of coordination that make voice chat all but mandatory.

I did not try vet WGT so i can t talk about that.
But I Agree with all what you say on ICP. I ve experienced the same.I think that the mechanics are great in this fight but it may miss a bit of structure. I don t know what exactly...something like the wave of zombie poping on bossshealth % could be an idea.
Maybe we are just doing it wrong. I m in a hurry to get feedback on this fight. I only find 1 vidéo on YT of a group clearing it since the last change. Was under the impression that the number of zombie has been tuned down but nothing about that was stated.
In anycase i wonder if the lack of stream is in itself a feedback .

Contraptions · August 2015

As a mainly PVE player, here is my feedback. I'm pretty disappointed overall.

Aesthetics of both dungeons are nice, but again I find the Coldharbour art style boring. Never played Oblivion so nostalgia factor for me is zero.

As for the gameplay, normal modes are fun and doable (key word), even for a non-optimal group. I tried the veteran versions of both dungeons and I think that they are all terribly overtuned.

First, the health. The trash mobs have so much health that fighting them is just a chore. 400k for a normal mob? Really? Even the elite mobs in vCOA (the flame colossi) don't have so much health. Xivkyn healers also drop some ridiculous uninterruptible healing circle that turns even trash fights into DPS races. Our group of randoms got bored after the first two trash packs in WGT. The elite mobs, like the flesh colossi, have EVEN MORE health, and drop absolutely nothing. Reward for all that effort? Hah. Bosses are worse and feel like damage sponges. Save the time-wasting trial mechanics for trials please. I only care about "challenge" if the reward is worth it. And now, it is definitely not.

Next, the damage. Sigh. One shot skills and AOES from both bosses and trash. Most annoying was some electric arrow that basically one shots anyone it hits, yet has no visible casting animation or indication. Started fight, immediately dead. Nice. Again, bosses are worse.

The mechanics. Perhaps the only redeeming point of the two dungeons is that some of the boss fights have "interesting" mechanics, and there is a clear preference for "group vs group" style boss fights in these two dungeons. Although most of them just boil down to kill adds, avoid one-shot AOEs, DPS race. Been there, done that. Rinse, repeat N, where N>5 times since the damn boss has so much health. Yawn. Some boss mechanics don't even have visual indicators, like Adjudicator's absorb, so be prepared for some clueless bumbling about wondering why she heals herself (unless you die, only then will the game helpfully tell you that she heals herself if you kill adds too close to her. Psh.).

I didn't particularly enjoy any boss fight at all. All I saw was a ridiculously large health bar blocking my way to the next quest objective. Any interest in the fight or mechanics was swiftly killed, just like my character, by long drawn out fights that just seemed to go on and on, or when we wiped over and over. When I play I want to get things done, challenge notwithstanding, and wiping over and over is not fun. It is boring. Please perform a stat squish on all mobs in the vet versions of these dungeons. If you make things long and boring, players will find ways to skip as many fights as possible. Vet Darkshade, vet COH, vet COA, vet WS, vet FG, vet BC, vet Spindle, most people don't kill ALL the mobs because it isn't worth the effort. And here it's the same.

There is a line between challenging and tedious, and the way these dungeons are designed crosses the line way into tediousness. I do not want to spend so much time and effort killing trash, especially when the reward is a measly 98 gold. Same for bosses. The drops, from what I've seen from other people's runs, are nothing special, other than perhaps the rubbish trophy vault tokens (more RNG yay) and some rare sets. The rest is decon trash. Not worth the time, especially at the current difficulty. And you want to put these dungeons into the daily PLEDGE ROTATION? HAHAHA.

By the way, a player who doesn't purchase the whole sodding IC DLC cannot ever get the Molag Kena or Lord Warden helm right (since they're BOP)? If that's true, then this is the point where the DLC has become pay to win for me. Good luck for the live release ZOS.

Dunkmeister · August 2015

So we gave Imperial Prisons another shot today. Having a very tough time beating the second boss with the intended mechanics. The additional damage to the flesh atros from the grenades helps but we seem to get overwhelmed too easily. We're still experimenting with different strats but this fight seems too demanding with no room for error. You might want to revisit this some more in my opinion.

BuggeX · August 2015

Contraptions wrote: »

By the way, a player who doesn't purchase the whole sodding IC DLC cannot ever get the Molag Kena or Lord Warden helm right (since they're BOP)? If that's true, then this is the point where the DLC has become pay to win for me. Good luck for the live release ZOS.

Wy do you think this Monster Sets are musthaves? Valkyrn Skoria will still be the best for Dks, mostly cause its proc on shilds now.

Guardian Engine will be the most used Set in PVP together with Bloodspawn, there Setbonis are way better than flat more DMG

btw @ZOS, think about reworking some old, not often used Sets, and make them also nice Hybrid builds, IC is now the only way to get them. Now after so0 long and you finally buffed Hybrids close to apart to others, I for myself have ESO+ so idc, but players who doesnt, are forced to play like now, max Magicka/Stamina

Personofsecrets · August 2015

[*] What did you think about the difficulty in Normal mode?
[*] What did you think about the difficulty in Veteran mode?
[*] What did you think of the loot?
[*] What was your favorite boss (in either Dungeon) and why did you enjoy it?
[*] What gave your group the most frustration?

A.

I play as a tank and normal mode was lame. I didn't really feel like I was contributing because of how easy the dungeons were. That being said, it is normal mode, a mode I will not be doing, and has an important place in helping players get better.

B.

The adds and trash had too much health on Veteran mode. I really felt that when my group had just 1 low dps player. Fights against trash dragged on forever.

In White Gold Tower the Daedroth did way too much damage. It is a trash mob. It shouldn't be wiping the group. Yes, the content should be harder, but that obnoxious enemy is more powerful than the giant daedroth from the Banished Cells. The Titan in the the White Gold Tower also felt more powerful than his counterpart in Elden Hollow and even City of ash. At least the Titan wasn't as idiotic as the daedroth warriors.

C.

I'm not excited for the loot. Random traits and random armor types is frustrating, not fun. Not everybody likes the Diablo 3 drop system @ZOS_RichLambert . You all know that people want trait changes and you want people to feel good about their gear, but in a contradictory act have compounded the loot problem.

D.

My favorite boss fight, by leaps and bounds, was the veteran White Gold Tower Elite Guard battle. Some of the best fights to tank involve controlling multiple enemies; fights like Longclaw, the Hive Lord, Yokeda Rok'dun, and the Axes of the Aetherian Archive Mage fight are all fights that really test a tanks mettle. Tanks need to manage their resources, manipulate multiple enemies, and watch out for powerful attacks - the Elite Guard didn't let down in any of those respects.

Philosophically, you know where I stand on the stamina regeneration nerf. I predict we will see less of these interesting fights, with multiple enemies, because it will be to hard for many tanks to maintain their stamina while tanking multiple enemies. Would you have made the Elite Guard a 4 enemy fight? It would be darn cool to have a 4 versus 4 battle, each side with a tank, healer, and 2 DPS, but I don't think tanks would be able to handle that many enemies after the nerf. I think the current best strategy will be for tanks to only hold two of the Elite Guard and that is fine, but think about how design space can be limited by the nerf.

Mechanically, it was nice to chose a target to focus on. The Elite Guard all seem to compliment each other in some way and that makes dividing to conquer a nice option. They also could deal damage that would be enough to kill players, but it didn't feel cheap like the Adjudicators traveling hands or Planar Inhibitors blue flame. There were also no gimmicks in the Elite Guard fight. I don't like having to lock pick in the middle of a battle and I don't like having to touch a magic sphere to get aggro. Those 'mechanics' are flawed attempts at makings players not just stack and burn, but the Elite Guard didn't involve any dinking around in order to not just be another tanks and spank. Gaining aggro on the enemies, being careful of losing health, and interrupting the enemies really made me feel that, unlike with the Adjudicator and Planar Inhibitor, I was making a difference as the tank. By the way, thank you for letting us crowed control boss enemies - that isn't something that we are ever able to do, but it really worked here. The only thing I would change mechanically is to have the remaining Elite Guard get stronger or do new attacks when one of their allies dies. That would keep the fight interesting as enemies fall and there is precedence for such a mechanic with the Flesh Atronarch Trio of Spindleclutch. Oh, I also don't think that one enemy should have out three Dragon Knight Standards, by themselves, at the same time.

Aesthetically, this fight was a real gem in the dirt pile of the new veteran dungeons. The start of the fight was swell. There was actually story that told us what was happening and why we were fighting the boss - they weren't just guarding a door. There is also something dreadful, but in an immersing and fun way, when waiting for a boss fight to start and watching allies turn into enemies. The same effect has made Praxin Douare if Veteran Spindleclutch one of my favorite battles. Most importantly was that, well, the Elite Guard members talk. The new veteran dungeons are really lacking in that department, but content needs memorable quips and taunts to stay engaging; the sayings are great for the ruby throne, for the empire, for Clivia Tharn!

E.

What gave my groups the most frustration was the Planar Inhibitor fight. The frustrating part to me was that I had to reconcile that fight with some of the developers opinions on tanking. Again, you already know that I don't think the stamina regeneration nerf is fun for tanks, but let's take a step beyond that. What makes the Planar Inhibitor fight fun for tanks? Not a single thing in my opinion and that is because tanking that fight isn't really viable. The orb aggro mechanic means that a normal tank is useless for long durations of the battle and a normal tank will not have enough DPS, reach, or maneuverability to reliably destroy portals. My groups put hours into this fight and I eventually switched to DPS, which I greatly dislike, but it made the fight much easier. We still didn't finish the battle.

Take this away - you can't claim to want tanking to be fun, but continue to make content where a tank isn't needed. You should already know how tanks switch to DPS on the Engine Guardian fight, but we have advanced past that mistake and you should know better. It isn't fun to have to totally switch roles during a dungeon and if you continue to make content where tanks aren't useful, then you words about wanting tanking to be fun and interactive are meaningless and just a cover for the truth of why you made the stamina regeneration nerf. If anything tanks not being needed or not having a big impact on battles in out-leveled content is the real reason why some people aren't having fun as a tank and it isn't because the tank has too much stamina. Trust me on that one.