Ooooooh wow.... a manual on how to out zerg the oposition,

This is really really what we need in cyrodiil with the laaaaggggg fest it already is,

Goodluck with the zerging and enjoy being out zerged by the oposition as you have just given them all your knowledge,

There is more to PVP than that guide and the total zerg mentality,
Yes zerging is efficient and it "works" but really you have to be a moron,

NO THINKING envolved, just spamming the spells that the leader has told you to spam! Oh and i almost forgot,
you only spam it WHEN he tells you too,

NO THANK YOU,

Where is the part about having ten or so people spamming steel tornado with maces? Or purge purge purge?

@ventoux The theme colours came out difficult to read on some platform/browser combinations. I've swapped it for one that seems lighter / easier on the eyes. Please let me know if it looks ok now.

@Johngo0036 Where does it specify how to zerg? If you bothered to actually read what I wrote and comment intelligently rather than blather on about something irrelevant, you'd look less like an uneducated *** and might garner some respect from your peers and betters. If you think that this is all the knowledge that there is to have, then that goes to show why your performance is abysmal. Read through it and learn something, educate others on how to better themselves, or don't bother the rest of us with your poor excuses for trolling.

@umagon My intent was to help new players with basic principles - or longer term players who have never had the opportunity to pick them up. The current meta of 1/6 of the group healers, 2-3 disruptors and the remainder steel tornados is irrelevant, and as much as most of us dislike it, following the meta in medium to large groups tends to net more points than otherwise. There are groups from all three factions that do this, and I hope that things will be different in IC.

@Kloud I also prefer running in small groups (as I do when awake late evenings with RAGE). Unfortunately when fighting opponents made up of at least one if not two full groups of 24, to take them on and win more than 50% of the time a {1 of us to 2 of them} ratio if not a {2 of us to 3 of them} ratio works better. If you can succeed in map control using sub 8-person groups, then I tip my hat to you.. It seems as though for the past few months it's the zergs that win - and again I sincerely hope that things change in IC. This campaign I've made about half of my points in a group of 16, and the other half ganking or in sub 8-person groups.

Very, very good read. Recommended to any player before going into Cyrodiil. Enjoyed it and I'm AR8.

Johngo0036 wrote: »

Because i play the game and this is typical zerg mentality and play style,

@Johngo0036 More description would be nice - you still haven't made a valid point. Lets educate everyone on what part of that is zerg mentality. My personal belief is that this information applies the similarly to groups of 4 as it does for groups of 24. You obviously disagree, so cite which sections only apply to a zerg.

You should also define what you believe a zerg is, as there seem to be many possible - and all of them subjective - definitions. Some solo players define anything more than four people as a zerg, while others define a zerg as more than one full 24 person group. One also needs to keep in mind than randoms (some people call them PUGs though by definition a PUG is a Pick Up Group) will always run along side organized groups, so no matter the group size there will often be anywhere from 2 to 20 additional people in the same area.

Johngo0036 wrote: »

A zerg to me is ANY group of people(generally larger than 8) who run around in a group,
spamming AOE, CC, Healing and pretty much causing the servers to lag

That is a good definition, and I can agree with that. I would add the word "mindlessly", remove the number, and clarify the lag point, so our definition would be:

A zerg is any set of people who run around in a group, organized or not, who mindlessly spam arbitrary skills. The mindless spamming of area skills, be they healing, damage, or cc are known to cause lag.

By this definition you could have a small group zerging, or a group of 50+ zerging. That raises the issue of what do you consider a small group of 8 people who have randoms (I use the term randoms instead of PUGs, as by definition PUG is a group) following them around? I have often run groups of 8-10 where less than one minute after starting something, there are over a dozen randoms who show up - or another organized group who show up!

It would not be reasonable to require that every time other people show up that the group move away! They would spend all their time running away from their own faction.

Take a read through this thread (my post is #28 then another later on).

I've updated the DarkElves web site with a section on zerging (at the end). I would appreciate your critique and if there's anything else you, as someone who so pationately hates zerging, believe is missing from it.

Johngo0036 wrote: »

I KNOW that this is probably the best way to get AP and take keeps but really all you need is one GOOD leader and a bunch of muppets to follow him, He makes every call, In some groups it is so bad that you have to make your build exactly what the leader wants, Where is the fun in that, A bunch of muppets running around with a good leader who calls all the shots, No freedom to do what you want

I've tried a few combinations of the requirement to play with the skills and gear/build that are optimized or min/maxed. Unfortunately, there are a set of builds that will almost always do better than others. For gankers, there are four or five combinations of skills and gear, as for people in groups. Identifying the builds for each set of roles and responsibilities is challenging, as is keeping them always up to date with the latest theories and techniques. What I've done is developed a set of baseline builds that I've posted for everyone in my guild. There started out with two or three for each of magicka dps, stamina dps, disruptor, or healer, and I ask that anyone new pick one and start with that. If they believe that something different would be better, then that's GREAT, as everyone else can learn from it and the best players of that class / role can decide on if truly does improve the build. Over time, the baseline builds have evolved and they serve as reference guide for new players with us.

The issue other people have is that this information is not available to them, or they see it as being forced to conform to something they don't like or want to do. I recently had an issue with a long term player of the game, who learned some techniques from the developers before the game was officially released. Back in the day when the game was new, he was a great player. As the game evolved, techniques changed, gear changed, and the metas for min/maxing changed, he did not change. To this day he uses a build that keeps him alive longer than the less-skilled players, about equivalent to the skilled players, and his output is only about half to two thirds of that of the skilled players. He lost his temper at being told so, and quit the guild. We lost someone who had been friendly for a long time because he couldn't open his mind to the possibility that his build and play were not the best any more. Had he been able to prove it, we would have all been very happy to have more people use his build and technique, and would have updated our baselines and reference models for such.

This is the main reason some guilds require certain builds. It's not fun to have to spend so much time working with every single player to ensure that their builds are the best. If changing your gear around and using one or two different skills can make the group perform better (and you can all feel the difference in group performance), then it makes sense to do so. When you're running in a group, doing what's best for the group is the right decision. I personally run mostly support skills when in groups. When ganking or in a 2-3 person group I'll have you dead in 2 seconds. When in a group of 6 or more people, because I'm running support skills my groups has a greater chance of success, though I personally will probably not be the one to kill you.

Johngo0036 wrote: »

Suppose the game has been made for all to enjoy,

The challenge here is that ZOS has evolved the game such that the largest zerg prevails. We are all hoping that this changes in the next major patch.

Johngo0036 wrote: »

Your guide is pretty complete and has good tips and strategies in it, I am probably not badding your guide but i can see how people will use it to create MORE zerg groups

I find it more likely that the information in my guide will serve to wake people up about their own skill, and they'll begin to see that running in a mindless non-strategic large group isn't as good as smaller groups where everyone fulfils a need. Too many people don't know how much fun tactical groups are, and as they get better in the game, and play during times when their zerg isn't available they'll start to see that.