I think it would also be great that if you engage someone who is fighting a PvE mob then you only ever get the basic 20% loot from them - encouraging you to attack them after they are out of combat for greater challenge and reward.

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

I think it would also be great that if you engage someone who is fighting a PvE mob then you only ever get the basic 20% loot from them - encouraging you to attack them after they are out of combat for greater challenge and reward.

This one doesn't make sense. The mobs are placed so densely, players will usually be fighting them when you encounter them, and one shouldn't get penalized for attacking the enemy when coming around that corner.
Besides that, how should it work anyway?
Attacked players could simply attack NPCs or players try to escape when they see an enemy approaching but not attacking, forcing the potential attacker to kill the engaged players and not get as much out of it as he could.

ToRelax wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

I think it would also be great that if you engage someone who is fighting a PvE mob then you only ever get the basic 20% loot from them - encouraging you to attack them after they are out of combat for greater challenge and reward.

This one doesn't make sense. The mobs are placed so densely, players will usually be fighting them when you encounter them, and one shouldn't get penalized for attacking the enemy when coming around that corner.
Besides that, how should it work anyway?
Attacked players could simply attack NPCs or players try to escape when they see an enemy approaching but not attacking, forcing the potential attacker to kill the engaged players and not get as much out of it as he could.

Unless in a blob, people won't want to vastly increase their chances of losing 20% of their stones by aggroing a mob when combating a player. Fighting both is suicide most of the time. With a little tweak, the mob could be programed to take it's 10% as well in such situations making the loss 30% overall to discourage it further.

Also, if the decision on % looting level is made at the moment combat is initiated, aggroing mobs afterward they are attacked by a player to 'limit the damage' wouldn't help anyone, it would just make losses worse.

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

I think it would also be great that if you engage someone who is fighting a PvE mob then you only ever get the basic 20% loot from them - encouraging you to attack them after they are out of combat for greater challenge and reward.

This one doesn't make sense. The mobs are placed so densely, players will usually be fighting them when you encounter them, and one shouldn't get penalized for attacking the enemy when coming around that corner.
Besides that, how should it work anyway?
Attacked players could simply attack NPCs or players try to escape when they see an enemy approaching but not attacking, forcing the potential attacker to kill the engaged players and not get as much out of it as he could.

Unless in a blob, people won't want to vastly increase their chances of losing 30% of their stones by aggroing a mob when combating a player. (20% loss to the player, 10% loss to the mob).

Also, if the decision on % looting level is made at the moment combat is initiated, aggroing mobs afterward they are attacked by a player to 'limit the damage' wouldn't help anyone, it would just make losses worse.

You do know how the current looting systems works anyway, don't you?
Depending on the damage dealt or rather "contribution to kill", stones are split between players, groups and mobs, with the killed player keeping 90% of what goes to the mobs.

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Fearce wrote: »

What kind of a "carebear" thread is that? Imperial City is a PvP-Patch and made for PvP-Players. If you cant handle the ruleset simply shhhhh away. The carebear full pve dlc is next on the list.
Imperial city is rough and its made to walk the streets in fear all time because of losing the stones you have worked hard for. Its not a hippie commune where you share your love and peace hugs all day long!

thanks bethesda for that cruel pvp system. please dont listen to the guys in here and leave tel var stone drops like it is.

I can handle it fine, I like both PvP and PvE and engage in both successfully and regularly. The difference between me and you is that I want everyone to enjoy IC - not just PvP-fanatics who think demeaning other valid MMO playstyles with labels like 'carebear' is fine.

And on your other point, you are just plain wrong. It's a PvP AND PvE expansion.

Try reading the patch notes...

This patch is exactly what pvp players want. Im not a good one either but i do WANT the thrill of getting ganked all the time while carrying around a huge bunch of stones. There are allready a good way to get back to the safezone and store the stones. Why you beg for something that will simply ruin the whole thrill, fear, and cruel -character of that patch. I dont get the point.

Fearce wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Fearce wrote: »

What kind of a "carebear" thread is that? Imperial City is a PvP-Patch and made for PvP-Players. If you cant handle the ruleset simply shhhhh away. The carebear full pve dlc is next on the list.
Imperial city is rough and its made to walk the streets in fear all time because of losing the stones you have worked hard for. Its not a hippie commune where you share your love and peace hugs all day long!

thanks bethesda for that cruel pvp system. please dont listen to the guys in here and leave tel var stone drops like it is.

I can handle it fine, I like both PvP and PvE and engage in both successfully and regularly. The difference between me and you is that I want everyone to enjoy IC - not just PvP-fanatics who think demeaning other valid MMO playstyles with labels like 'carebear' is fine.

And on your other point, you are just plain wrong. It's a PvP AND PvE expansion.

Try reading the patch notes...

This patch is exactly what pvp players want. Im not a good one either but i do WANT the thrill of getting ganked all the time while carrying around a huge bunch of stones. There are allready a good way to get back to the safezone and store the stones. Why you beg for something that will simply ruin the whole thrill, fear, and cruel -character of that patch. I dont get the point.

Why use a word like 'beg'?

Can't you put an argument t together without trying to demean opposing opinions?

Dedicated PvP players need to understand this expansion isn't 'theirs', it is for the game and all it's players as a whole. The more people who play it the better, and if it remains entirely unsympathetic to PvE-centrics they won't buy it.

Now do you get the point?

Zourem wrote: »

Hey man great idea! This way people will risk bringing more tel var stones with them. And this is what we need. People need to carry more tel var stones with them!

Thanks for understanding the point. If it's a good idea to have a risk reward escalator for PvE fighting in IC, it will be good for PvP fights also.

If you can loot 100% without risking 1 stone yourself and then portal stone after a big win, earned by ganking a player engaged with a boss, then you just got a whole lot of stones without earning it with real skill and effort.

It's this minimal risk for massive reward that has Ganker & Griefer Inc. drooling so hard they can't understand the impact on the game as a whole. Seen it in so very many MMO's - such people are always the first to flee the scene when there is a challenge involved, or crow about their 'skillz' when they instakill an afk PvE'er.

Kas's idea means they would have to fight well and risk something significant to get the best reward, and that just isn't in their 'playbook' no matter how much they wail about PvP being best when it's ruthless etc.

So expect more such doubletalk.

Gotta say I like this idea, anything that makes the risk go both ways will make this a better system.

Fearce wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Fearce wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Fearce wrote: »

What kind of a "carebear" thread is that? Imperial City is a PvP-Patch and made for PvP-Players. If you cant handle the ruleset simply shhhhh away. The carebear full pve dlc is next on the list.
Imperial city is rough and its made to walk the streets in fear all time because of losing the stones you have worked hard for. Its not a hippie commune where you share your love and peace hugs all day long!

thanks bethesda for that cruel pvp system. please dont listen to the guys in here and leave tel var stone drops like it is.

I can handle it fine, I like both PvP and PvE and engage in both successfully and regularly. The difference between me and you is that I want everyone to enjoy IC - not just PvP-fanatics who think demeaning other valid MMO playstyles with labels like 'carebear' is fine.

And on your other point, you are just plain wrong. It's a PvP AND PvE expansion.

Try reading the patch notes...

Wow yeah cool lets just turn the whole patch into another full open world grind, where you can make agreements with other players when to farm stones. Lets just also implement /hug and /kiss commands to share your love with the other faction while inside the sewers .....

You need to step back and think about what I have stated before you post.

ALL TV Stones that can be PK looted come from PvE mobs originally, so the grind is there ANYWAY.

The current setup encourages WORSE stone farming...

And once again, what's with the 'hug and kiss' BS - try arguing the point why don't you?

Theres no space for argumentation clearly. You just want to get your pve head through the patchwall of bethesda. Your arguments are ***. The Devs allready stated that this system will be fearsome and adrenalin pushing. This is one of the few things that really works right now. There are Bugs and Exploits all over the place but the whole tel var stone system is enjoyable and EXACTLY what the devs have told us.
And if you would care about the "reading of things" you would allready know that such a huge change wont get into the game. Toning the system down in a way you want it to be will ruin the whole thrill in the game.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I love crawling around in the sewers, especially way deep down on the 3rd level. That rush you get when you see another player down there and have to decide to fight or flee. So awesome!

(No we don't have plans to make the sewers PVE only)

There is indeed no point in arguing with YOU, as you cannot/will-not read.

I am not a dedicated PvE'er or PvP'er - I play BOTH, I enjoy BOTH.

Stop characterising me as a dedicated PvE'er to try to prop up your weak and self-serving argument.

You also need to read more threads on these forums - and then you might not be so ready to claim that the suggested change here "will ruin the whole thrill of the game."

You do understand that what YOU enjoy most isn't the WHOLE game, and isn't agreed upon by ALL players, don't you?

As for the Devs... don't think for one minute their statements are set in stone - I could point to any number of U-Turns they have made after mistakes, and if PvE players don't buy the expansion in sufficient numbers they will have to bend over for the accountants at Zenimax and change it, because every study ever done into MMO player populations show casual PvE'ers are by FAR the largest single player group.

If Zenimax hadn't put PvE rewards and advancement behind a PvP dominance wall, there wouldn't be an issue, but so far they have. They will need to modify the way they have done it if they aren't going to lose more paying customers - those that hate PvP.

Here's a heads-up - fewer customers means less money, means worse game, means more fail.

Either take the blinkers off or troll another thread.

Wooo, my name
Thanks for picking up the idea and putting it into a proper suggestion.
I also like your refinement, but imo any final numbers could well be left to ZOS' balancing.

On topic:
I'd really love to see risk go both ways. Tbh, it might actually make me play as a ganker on some twink. The thrill of battle with something on the line is something I really enjoy. On the other hand, I don't see myself joining the hordes of 1-min flys runnign from their own spawn towards enemies in order to get a few stones or die and repawn within seconds.

many aspects of IC are discussed heavily in this forum, but having palyed there for a while, my biggest issue is that it's fowards camps but a million times worse. especially in the districts, IC had a feeling of zero risk and zero reward (due to the recently killed timers). I made quite a number of kills in a group of three and got terribly few AP out of it (if IC is only 10k/h or something because only every ten'th kill is worth something, I'll really just camp the entrance in cyro or flip keeps to annoy and farm enemy randoms there). I had many fights where I felt liek the enemy gave up after 3 seconds only to reapwn and try again with a single combo (that failed due to the lowered damage).

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

I will start off by crediting Kas for this - I am just taking the idea, refining it and giving it it's own thread, as it richly deserves.

There are already TV stone drop multipliers for increasing risk/reward balance for PvE kills.

The same should apply to PvP kills in IC with some allowance for the negative impact of a 100% loot system.

Basic looting would be 20% of your opponents stones.

After that - you get an extra 20% added on for each multiplier you have based on carried stones.

In order to get a high % haul from a single PvP kill on a player loaded with stones, you will thus need to risk your own.

It's fair, and it negates the issue of campers with no TV stones on them hunting big single kill hauls and then running.

Please support this idea - it's the best compromise I can imagine for the suggested IC meta.

This would be a great solution if they don't set a "fixed" drop rate that everyone agree's with.

With some areas having such high density of mobs, I also worry a great deal about the abusability of skills like destructive Reach on a Fire Staff - any knockback skill can essentially turn a bunch on nearby mobs into your instant allies if your opponents CC immunity doesn't save them.

Being in a good fight and winning, just to be knocked back into 3 mobs which make the contest entirely one-sided is one thing, but to lose all your stones because of it.

Lame... and I'm speaking as one who uses a fire staff and that skill situationally when fighting on keep walls etc.

ToRelax wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

With some areas having such high density of mobs, I also worry a great deal about the abusability of skills like destructive Reach on a Fire Staff - any knockback skill can essentially turn a bunch on nearby mobs into your instant allies if your opponents CC immunity doesn't save them.

Being in a good fight and winning, just to be knocked back into 3 mobs which make the contest entirely one-sided is one thing, but to lose all your stones because of it.

Lame... and I'm speaking as one who uses a fire staff and that skill situationally when fighting on keep walls etc.

I'd worry more about all kinds of AoE skills that, even if the AoE damage/effect is just a side effect of the skill, will make all the mobs always focus the caster...

jep playing a sorc in IC su..s balls all the sorc spells contain some kind of ae effect pulling half of IC all the time while combating a player...

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

With some areas having such high density of mobs, I also worry a great deal about the abusability of skills like destructive Reach on a Fire Staff - any knockback skill can essentially turn a bunch on nearby mobs into your instant allies if your opponents CC immunity doesn't save them.

Being in a good fight and winning, just to be knocked back into 3 mobs which make the contest entirely one-sided is one thing, but to lose all your stones because of it.

Lame... and I'm speaking as one who uses a fire staff and that skill situationally when fighting on keep walls etc.

I'd worry more about all kinds of AoE skills that, even if the AoE damage/effect is just a side effect of the skill, will make all the mobs always focus the caster...

jep playing a sorc in IC su..s balls all the sorc spells contain some kind of ae effect pulling half of IC all the time while combating a player...

Then report it to Zenimax immediately so the six months they ignore the issue before fixing it starts as soon as possible.

did so aswell as wonky pet paths pulling the other half of IC :P

Beesting wrote: »

When you play on the pts a few days like 50 hours like i did you will quickly realise that there is an endless amount of tv stones and people will stop caring about losing them after the first week (which is enough to get the new gear set you want)

People will farm cp like maniacs though in those tunnels, being disturbed by other players is more of a nuisance than losing a few stones

This is what i predict based on my observations ^^

don´t be fearsome - xp will be annihilated before going live ^^ as