Controlled testing of major bug: +percentage increases. Results!

glavius · August 2015

Read alot about some shields and puncturing strikes doing more damage than intended.
So I decided to test it myself.
Here are the results, including test numbers below.

Abilities found bugged so far:
Hardened ward, steadfast ward (and morphs), dampen magic, puncturing strikes (and morphs)
+25% dmg vs fire for vamps
+% healing (from champ or skills)

Abilities with +percentage increase tested and not affected by bug (working as intended):
+% dmg from champion lines.
+% resist from champion lines
-20% aoe dmg from blade cloak
Crystal fragments (the proc), might of the guild passive, reverse slash (and morphs)
-15% dmg from dizzying swing (minor maim)
+x% dmg from racial
dawnbreaker+60% dmg vs vamps
+10% invisible dmg from racials.

Untested:
Reactive armor set -35% dmg taken when CC'ed. This might end up at effective 15% dmg taken (50% reduction battle spirit+35% reduction from set)

Weird results:
Blade cloaked target hit by puncturing strikes. blade cloak effect calculated first then puncturing strikes modifier added after. 50% pvp dmg, reduced to 40% dmg taken with blade cloak up, but 140% modifier added=180% dmg taken.

Test results if you like to check the numbers yourself, bugged skills only because I'm lazy:

Hardened ward tooltip value 3986 in cyrodiil. Tooltip value in pve area 7972. Actual value 6617. Basically cyrodiil value is pve area tooltip value *0.33+cyrodiil tooltip value. It should be cyrodiil tooltip value *1.33=5301. Basically 25% more shield due to bug.

Steadfast ward tooltip 1540 in cyrodiil. Actual value varied from 9024 to 10318. This is due to steadfast ward scaling all the way down to 1% hp.
Basically the calculation is the same as for dampen and hardened ward. Actual value is up to pve tooltip value * 3+cyrodiil tooltip value. This also indicates a bug in the tooltip saying its increased up to 300%. The actual increase is up to 200%, or another way to update the tooltip would be to say its value was 300% of base value.

Dampen magic tooltip value 4506 in cyrodiil. Tooltip value in pve area 9012. Actual value 8291. Basically cyrodiil value is pve area tooltip value *0.42+cyrodiil tooltip value. It should be cyrodiil tooltip value *1.42=6398. Basically 30% more shield due to bug.

Puncturing strikes tooltip value: 440. actual damage 836. It should be doing 440+140%, so 440*2.4=1056*0,5 battle spirit=528 dmg. But instead it does 440*1.9=836 dmg (damage after battle spirit=0.5+1.4 modifier= 1.9 total modifier. or 58% more damage than intended.)

Vamp damage taken from lightning/cold force shock 440
vamp damage taken from fire force shock 660

Basically 50% more damage taken. Note that tooltip is 25%, but calculation is base dmg taken in pvp 0.5+0.25 vamp vulnerability=0.75 dmg taken in pvp. This is 50% more than the 0.5 dmg taken other players get.

Note on live we also take exactly 50% more damage from being vamp. Calculation is base dmg taken 0.8+0.4 vamp vulnerability=1.2 dmg taken in pvp. This is 50% more than the 0.8 dmg taken other players get.

glavius · August 2015

Forgot to add calculations for +% healing. But basically, if you get +8% healing, it's calculated as 0.5 base in cyrodiil+0.08=0.58 modifier.
This gives you an actual 16% increase to healing. (0.58/0.5=1.16 or 16% more)

Erock25 · August 2015

This is good stuff and ZOS needs to fix these issues ASAP so we can actually test some balance. @ZOS_GinaBruno I know I tag you a lot but this here needs to be the number one priority.

olsborg · August 2015

Wonder what zos has to say about this. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Derra · August 2015

Really good testing here. I knew about all the shield modifiers being calculated the wrong way - guess one could have figured it was the same for jabs on templar.

Thank you for your effort - lets all hope ZOS fixes all of the above.

kkampaseb17_ESO · August 2015

Shameless bump so that devs can fix all these.

Bashev · August 2015

Nice job OP!
Does ZoS have a test team? Does they expect that all the bugs should be found by the players? On top of that in order to find such bugs you really have to rely on Addons.
I am wondering how many bugs related to the skills are in this game? If all these bugs that OP listed are true, I bet that all the combat code is terrible.

Xantaria · August 2015

Spambump this thread. And I'm 100% sure there are TONS of similar issues. Zenimax should just delete the whole code for their math and start from scratch. penetration ... percentages ... EVERYTHING is bugged.

glavius · August 2015

Found a few more abilities that need testing:

Molten weapons
Major mending (Igneous shield)
Critical charge
Howl of agony
Minor protection buff (circle of protection, supression field)
Nova
Backlash
Death stroke
Consuming darkness
Scourge harvester set

ZOS_GinaBruno · August 2015

Thanks, @glavius! We'll make sure to pass this along so the team can check it out.

kkampaseb17_ESO · August 2015

Thanks for passing this Gina. These bugs need fixing. But you also need to keep an eye on Sharpened Maces bug. There is a whole thread dedicated on it here on PTS forum.

Ezareth · August 2015

These are not bugs.

This is how these mechanics have always worked and many players have made builds around those mechanics. I reported this back in 1.6.2.

Percentage modifiers are almost always additive in ESO.

Take the tooltip for Hardened Ward, it only shows that +33% bonus *after* you've cast it.

7972 *.5 (Battle Spirit) = 3986
7972 *. 5+.33(Battle Spirit + Hardened Ward Morph) = 6617

Practically everything in the game works this way. Their buffs and debuffs are *additive* not multiplicative because the calculations are all done in one place.

glavius · August 2015

Bug or not, it has made these abilities far stronger on pts compared to live.Most noticable the 58% dmg buff to puncturing strikes.

ThatNeonZebraAgain · August 2015

glavius wrote: »

Forgot to add calculations for +% healing. But basically, if you get +8% healing, it's calculated as 0.5 base in cyrodiil+0.08=0.58 modifier.
This gives you an actual 16% increase to healing. (0.58/0.5=1.16 or 16% more)

Leave it alone! Give us poor Argonians something to live for!

Ludof · August 2015

Please nerf Templar !!

Jar_Ek · August 2015

Bump

TheBull · August 2015

This answers my question "wth is going with biting jabs". As I thought damage mitigation affects have effect on jabs.

edit- Heck they make it worse. I'm willing to bet consume shadows performs the same way.

Rook_Master · August 2015

I guess this sort of thing is what happens when you apply heavy-handed methods like -50% damage to everything.

If this stuff makes it to live I guess we can safely plan our builds around it, since it probably won't be fixed until 1.8?

Ezareth · August 2015

Rook_Master wrote: »

I guess this sort of thing is what happens when you apply heavy-handed methods like -50% damage to everything.

If this stuff makes it to live I guess we can safely plan our builds around it, since it probably won't be fixed until 1.8?

I'm pretty certain this isn't something that can be "fixed". They have yet to ever make something that was additive in the past multiplicative.

glavius · August 2015

Inc fotm templars :-)

Ahzek · August 2015

@Ezareth they claim they will do just that woth healing ward now, so maybe there is hope.

Ezareth · August 2015

Ahzek wrote: »

@Ezareth they claim they will do just that woth healing ward now, so maybe there is hope.

Where was this mentioned?

I only see they said they were looking at some abilities that were double nerfed....which something also pointed out right after they announced the battle spirit buff changes.

SturgeHammer · August 2015

glavius wrote: »

Inc fotm templars :-)

There's been a noticeable uptick in the number of Stam Templars lately. A large portion of my deaths in the last few weeks have been to Massive burning light procs. Right now Templars have some huge burst damage from biting jabs.

Etharian · August 2015

Bumperssss

ZOS_JR · August 2015

Hi, everyone. We understand that people are going to want to make sure that this issue is seen, but it has already been acknowledged here. For that reason, we ask that players refrain from posting "bumps". Any further details or information that can be added would be helpful. Thank you!

tist · August 2015

ZOS should just remove all tooltip information because at this point nothing is accurate. It is up to the community to figure out the values apparently.

k2blader · August 2015

ZOS_JR wrote: »

Hi, everyone. We understand that people are going to want to make sure that this issue is seen, but it has already been acknowledged here. For that reason, we ask that players refrain from posting "bumps". Any further details or information that can be added would be helpful. Thank you!

That is an odd request as if someone posts any general thought or reply to any thread that counts as a "bump" regardless of the inclusion of the word "bump." I imagine details are helpful-- particularly for the playerbase so we know what is still messed up and can try to take that into account as we play-- but Zeni should be already finding, tracking, and fixing bugs independently of those posted on forums.

Just sayin'..

[edit]
Also, timely true fixes of bugs on the PTS should be occurring so players can get an accurate feel for any changes and can provide accurate feedback rather than saying and thinking "____ is OP" when it's really due to unfixed bug(s).

ZOS_GinaBruno · August 2015

Just to follow up, we did look into everything here and have identified some issues that we're working on fixing. Thanks again!

Stalwart385 · August 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to follow up, we did look into everything here and have identified some issues that we're working on fixing. Thanks again!

Thank you for keeping us informed.

Yiko · August 2015

Nice work, OP.

Mist form % damage reduction seems to interact in a similar way when hit by abilities such as Puncturing Strikes or Radiant Destruction. Perhaps it could use some testing too.

I think it's safe to say that although the way damage and shields are being calculated may not technically be bugs, they are most certainly not working as intended, especially considering the changes to Battle Spirit on the PTS.

58% more damage than intended on Biting Jabs? That explains a lot

Master_Kas · August 2015

@Ezareth I think shields are bugged man. Atleast hardened ward. On live my Hardened ward is 12k when I use buff foods. On pts with similar stats (tough nearly 100 cp less) its 10.3k.

with 35% shield nerf, shouldn't hardened ward be more like 7800-ish? :P

EDIT: Both in cyrodiil. Can provide pics tomorrow