cheap spammable dps in pvp: suprise attack and biting jabs

xylena · August 2015

NB surprise attack is often doing 8-9k a hit, that's over a third of most people's health bar and absurd for a cheap spammable instant cast that can hit several times while an opponent is feared and/or cc breaking... surprise attack needs to be doing no more than the same 4-5k damage that something like lava whip usually hits for... meanwhile, NB killers blade is still useless, needs its damage buffed and needs to do physical damage to synergize with stam builds (also a stam move doing "magic" damage is silly)

damage stacking bug on biting jabs aside, its damage needs to be in line with wrecking blow, snipe, crystal frags, and of course the magicka puncturing sweep morph... it should definitely hit hard since it leaves you open while channeling, but also shouldn't waste your opponent in 2 casts

stam DK and stam sorc both need a spammable class DPS move, their build options are really badly limited right now

IxskullzxI · August 2015

Really looks like the damage nerf didn't fix anything. Just kept what was already op still op, while making weaker skills worthless. Like surprise attack hitting so hard while whip is a joke compared to it.

Strider_Roshin · August 2015

IxskullzxI wrote: »

Really looks like the damage nerf didn't fix anything. Just kept what was already op still op, while making weaker skills worthless. Like surprise attack hitting so hard while whip is a joke compared to it.

The damage for surprise attack is just fine, and the whip is just as powerful unless you're a stamina user.

Alcast · August 2015

You forget that surpr attack is INSTANT while jabs is a slow 1.1s channel...

Also, the cheapest and strongest skill in game is still unstable flame, DoT tho.

xylena · August 2015

Really looks like the damage nerf didn't fix anything. Just kept what was already op still op, while making weaker skills worthless. Like surprise attack hitting so hard while whip is a joke compared to it.

yep, burst moves are still incredibly strong, meanwhile sustained dps builds/tactics no longer exist in pvp... surprise attacks were hitting for 12k on live and killed you in 2 hits, now on PTS they hit for 8k and kill you in 3 hits... nobody is hitting lava whips for 8k that i've seen, nor should they

Rook_Master · August 2015

With the changes to block and healing, sustain is gone.

Whoever bursts harder wins.

actosh · August 2015

Dot cant be spammed. Gues who kills faster nb with instant surprise attack or someone reliant on a heavy magicka build to get the whip to do some dmg.

Jabs is ok, since it is a channel where u do dmg while channeling.
Same goes for flurry rapid strikes
Wb should be an instant without the cc or empower buff. While u wind it up everybody got time to block dodge or cc u.
More important: Jabs and Surprise Attack dont require u to wear a specific weapon ^^

Dracane · August 2015

Can this damage be considered 'DPS' ? It's more like burst. Fast, strong burst. DPS-Burst

tplink3r1 · August 2015

Can someone PROOF they are being hit for 10k+ by Jabs? I have never seen my Jabs deal so much damage.

kaithuzar · August 2015

xylena wrote: »

NB surprise attack is often doing 8-9k a hit, that's over a third of most people's health bar and absurd for a cheap spammable instant cast that can hit several times while an opponent is feared and/or cc breaking... surprise attack needs to be doing no more than the same 4-5k damage that something like lava whip usually hits for... meanwhile, NB killers blade is still useless, needs its damage buffed and needs to do physical damage to synergize with stam builds (also a stam move doing "magic" damage is silly)

damage stacking bug on biting jabs aside, its damage needs to be in line with wrecking blow, snipe, crystal frags, and of course the magicka puncturing sweep morph... it should definitely hit hard since it leaves you open while channeling, but also shouldn't waste your opponent in 2 casts

stam DK and stam sorc both need a spammable class DPS move, their build options are really badly limited right now

"Like Wrecking Blow" seriously??? I got crit for 7k wrecking blow when I'm wearing 7 gold heavy ... While my 2.3-2.6k sp dmg nb is hitting incapacitating strike ult for 3-6k .... QQ MOAR

Also make sure to stress you are talking about "surprise attack" NOT concealed weapon.

xylena · August 2015

Also, the cheapest and strongest skill in game is still unstable flame, DoT tho.

i loved unstable flame on live but on PTS spamming its 1-2k impact damage does nothing, and its 1k dots tickle compared to healing... stam DK can still very quickly burst kill you with wrecking blow spam into take flight, but that's a few measures harder to land than simply spamming 8k surprise attacks or bugged jabs

xylena · August 2015

"Like Wrecking Blow" seriously??? I got crit for 7k wrecking blow when I'm wearing 7 gold heavy ... While my 2.3-2.6k sp dmg nb is hitting incapacitating strike ult for 3-6k .... QQ MOAR

Also make sure to stress you are talking about "surprise attack" NOT concealed weapon.

yes, this thread is about the stamina surprise attack morph, not the magicka concealed weapon morph, which i haven't seen do nearly as much damage on pts

sharpened weapons (especially maces/mauls) still penetrate 20-30k armor, so against stamina builds there's still little difference between wearing heavy and being naked

Alcast · August 2015

Physical skills hit so hard BECAUSE 100% ARMORPENETRATION.

If those ZOS dudes fixed this already, those skills would not do the damage they do now, nor on live and Nor on pts.

Simple

But bc they cant fix that they nerf skills into the ground, gj

Reverb · August 2015

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Can someone PROOF they are being hit for 10k+ by Jabs? I have never seen my Jabs deal so much damage.

I have several screenshots I can attach when I get home of 10k biting jabs. There is one AD Templar whose jabs hit for 15-17k, but that build seems to have been at the expense of any resistance or mitigation, because he absolutely melts on contact. I'm sure it's fun to play around with, but I can't imagine that build would be very viable in the live environment.

actosh · August 2015

xylena wrote: »

Also, the cheapest and strongest skill in game is still unstable flame, DoT tho.

i loved unstable flame on live but on PTS spamming its 1-2k impact damage does nothing, and its 1k dots tickle compared to healing... stam DK can still very quickly burst kill you with wrecking blow spam into take flight, but that's a few measures harder to land than simply spamming 8k surprise attacks or bugged jabs

Oh so as Dks we can only burst when we use an ultimate with wb......sadly, this is true ^^

IxskullzxI · August 2015

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

IxskullzxI wrote: »

Really looks like the damage nerf didn't fix anything. Just kept what was already op still op, while making weaker skills worthless. Like surprise attack hitting so hard while whip is a joke compared to it.

The damage for surprise attack is just fine, and the whip is just as powerful unless you're a stamina user.

People are hitting for 10k+ with surprise attack on live. Good luck getting a whip to hit for that.

actosh · August 2015

Maybe fix armor pen once and for all or add a damn trait on armor to negate it.

OGLezard · August 2015

dont worry, in 9 months they will fix everything people are complaining about. Maybe everyone should try to get in on the guild summit stuff, where the elite of the elite are helping ZoS make their poor decisions..........lets start there.....

Ezareth · August 2015

I've been in several guild summits. It's pretty 1-way, and the players aren't really directing ZoS by any stretch. If you're lucky you make them aware of some bugs in the game but they're actually aware of how many things work in the game. Dont blame the "Elite" for this mess.

vortexman11 · August 2015

I hit that hard with whips, but only on vamps, still this shouldn't be possible

Rook_Master · August 2015

The Guild Summit was basically a PR campaign where the loudest internet personalities were invited to a secret cabal where they could be made to feel special for a few hours, and then go back to their followers and talk about it.

Essentially all of the information from these secret meetings comes from Atropos' notes which he released.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/10/eso-guild-summit/

timidobserver · August 2015

I am against nerfing biting jabs purely because zos is lazy about nerfs and would likely nerf the base skill rather than the biting jabs morph.

Iyas · August 2015

Everything is cheap and spammable...so dont blame it on this 2 skills only.

Xael · August 2015

Flame Whips hit for 11k crits... mine do right now. Depending on resists 7-8k is the norm for my whip crits.

k2blader · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Physical skills hit so hard BECAUSE 100% ARMORPENETRATION.

If those ZOS dudes fixed this already, those skills would not do the damage they do now, nor on live and Nor on pts.

Simple

But bc they cant fix that they nerf skills into the ground, gj

Is that arpen problem due to maces or is it across the board? Yesterday I was really hoping they'd have patched some of this stuff (and added in other nerfs they proposed) so it would be worth getting on the PTS..

Forcebuster · August 2015

So every person who gets hit by something now requests a nerf.I mean wth try find a way to counter things, with these update changes you can easily get your armor/spell resistance up to 30k+ also you can safely invest points into resistant since it doesn't resist ur crit heals that is alot of damage mitigation. Work on your builds instead complaining about people hitting harder and remember it is easy to get 6k-7k wep dmg now. My char was copied and it has 5k wep dmg atm without molag kena or the v16 equips which would probably add some 1k+ dmg. Also maces is not the problem that is why it was not fixed, it is the sharpned trait so if people want nerfs to that also expect your spell penetration to be nerfed as well.

Alcast · August 2015

k2blader wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Physical skills hit so hard BECAUSE 100% ARMORPENETRATION.

If those ZOS dudes fixed this already, those skills would not do the damage they do now, nor on live and Nor on pts.

Simple

But bc they cant fix that they nerf skills into the ground, gj

Is that arpen problem due to maces or is it across the board? Yesterday I was really hoping they'd have patched some of this stuff (and added in other nerfs they proposed) so it would be worth getting on the PTS..

Mainissue is that ZOS cant propperly do math and most things are getting MULTIPLIED instead of AGGREGATED(if this is the right word in english?) So whenever you have 2 stats it does smth like this:

Mace 10%*Sharpened7%=70% penetration

instead of
Mace 10%+Sharpened 14%= 24% penetration.

i guess, not 100% sure.

k2blader · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Physical skills hit so hard BECAUSE 100% ARMORPENETRATION.

If those ZOS dudes fixed this already, those skills would not do the damage they do now, nor on live and Nor on pts.

Simple

But bc they cant fix that they nerf skills into the ground, gj

Is that arpen problem due to maces or is it across the board? Yesterday I was really hoping they'd have patched some of this stuff (and added in other nerfs they proposed) so it would be worth getting on the PTS..

Mainissue is that ZOS cant propperly do math and most things are getting MULTIPLIED instead of AGGREGATED(if this is the right word in english?) So whenever you have 2 stats it does smth like this:

Mace 10%*Sharpened7%=70% penetration

instead of
Mace 10%+Sharpened 14%= 24% penetration.

i guess, not 100% sure.

Ugghh. Ok, thanks for the info.

The lack of fixes make it near impossible to tell WTH is working anymore. I mean, until it goes live, people find which bugs exist and suit them best and won't be fixed, and the new meta emerges for the next few/several months. lol

Itoq · August 2015

7/29-7/30 PTS.

Me: 5 LA 1 HA 1MA 1 Hand/Shield -or- 6 MA 1HA.

I do not believe that any of these were from stealth.

I have been 'one shot' by players from their stealth and I have been stun locked on PTS. Other player attack animations and sounds are still missing sometimes. Attacks are still occasionally piling up into one attack on the receiving client side. Most of these issues I was hoping might be fixed by the new/less LOS checks.

Alcast · August 2015

Itoq wrote: »

7/29-7/30 PTS.

Me: 5 LA 1 HA 1MA 1 Hand/Shield -or- 6 MA 1HA.

I do not believe that any of these were from stealth.

Holy mother of Biting Jabs

That damage is impossible to reach with realistic numbers xD

Seems they added a 0 too much in one of the levels of Biting Jabs , same issue like Flying blade

Zanen · August 2015

Jabs is bugged, going to be fixed.

Not seeing SA numbers that are out of line, 6K crits on a max burst build and only getting 3.5Kish against the wards everyone is running.