Erock25 wrote: »

Uuughh Rally is still much much much better than Critical Surge in PVP. It isn't even close. I'm walking around IC with 67% crit chance and using Critical Rush too and my healing is like 1/4 of what Rally gives me.

The problem is that at the moment critical surge doesn't heal you on blocking targets and it heals you for the normal damage on absorb shields (critical hits heal you on absorb shields but not based on the critical damage value rather the non critical value). I think that is why there is such difference.

The day they make critical surge heal you on blockbots will be the day I am a happy sorc, although with the current block nerf I think it should be better now.

I can't honestly think of ANY good reason why ZOS won't make ALL class skills scale off of what ever stat you have chosen.... A stamina based DW sorc should be able to rock a crystal frag that hits just as hard as a magicka staff wielder. Our weapon choices simply define our preferred playstyle, and since we are stuck choosing a "Class" instead of having all trees available, we should be able to use ALL of those class skills affectively.

My stamina Sorc wants Boundless Storm, NOT Thundering Presence.

The damage from lightning form is pretty poor and 5s is nothing, so I will magicka dump into boundless every time. If they changed thunderous presence so the morph effect was something other than a minor duration iñcrease then I may be interested depending on the change.

infracanisub17_ESO wrote: »

Dark Exchange gives a lot less resources back on the PTS compared to Live. You don't get the resources until after the animation cool down so it ends up being ~1.7 secs before resources are returned.

Plus the ability scales from Max health and stamina so gear doesn't improve the value versus live where it scales from total magicka and total max stamina.

Thundering Presence could give Minor Berzerk for the 8% increased damage. It also should tick the DoT every 0.5 sec for increased chances to Disintegrate.

I think the whole idea of needing a magicka dump is better though. Unless ZOS addresses more of the issues raised in these threads, Stamina Spec will be worse off in 1.7 than it is in Live currently. Sad.

FENGRUSH has said this. They do not believe Him!

Hmm thundering presence with a beserk buff might have unintended consequences, in that it gets used by magicka sorcerers in PvP to become even stronger. Maybe a protection buff or an endurance buff would be better - making it good for tanks and survivability?

Huggalump wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Hmm thundering presence with a beserk buff might have unintended consequences, in that it gets used by magicka sorcerers in PvP to become even stronger. Maybe a protection buff or an endurance buff would be better - making it good for tanks and survivability?

How funny would it be if stamina sorcs end up using the magic morph for the speed while magicka sorcs end up using the stamina morph for the damage

I would lol. Nothing much left to do after that. Isn't that the case with dark deal now for the stamina regen on magic builds?

I agree with most things about stamina sorcerer being not quite viable and magicka sort too strong for pvp.

The reason they are too strong is still the hardened ward.

I play magicka sorcerer and like Stam spec for a bit of fun occasionally and will do more when I get vigor.

My idea for a fix for the shields.. They should be major and minor like the other buffs.. Only use one major ward and minor at the same time. They definitely should not scale from your magicka or stamina, should be health and major could be 33% of max health and minor would be 15% just an idea. That would balance all classes. Except NB's who have no shield..
Obviously the shields from other sources would need to be looked at but the spiked bone shield could be minor for caster and major for allies..

I'm fine with thundering presence instead of the speed boost. I'm ok with stacking blink cost.

The only thing that will make this a stam sorc rework is adding a spammable stamina/weapon based attack ability. It's not a stamina sorc rework until that happens. Thundering presence as stamina, even passive, that's all small change in comparison.

DK and Templar are generally defensive with tankiness and heals. Nightblade and Sorcs are offensive. Nightblades with stealth and Sorcs with mobility. The same way nightblades have spammable stamina based attacks, stam Sorcs need one too.

Please undo the DoT change for surge! It cripples it's usage with dual wield because, for some god-forsaken reason, you classify flurry and its morphs as a DoT.

Especially with the cooldown reduction, the DoT change isn't even needed.

Erock25 wrote: »

From a PVP perspective, it has been nice that basically every Wrecking Blow crit is a heal. It was very frustrating on live to have a 12k Wrecking Blow crit and only get 400 healing instead of 7k heal because a Boundless Storm crits with 10% total spell crit. Things like that are a random occurrence but happens often enough to be very frustrating. I'd like to see how well Surge healed with dots working and the new 0.1 second cooldown (down from 0.25s). The only way Surge is overpowered is if it had no cooldown at all so AOE effects could bring back crazy burst heals the more targets you had. They should lower the cooldown as low as the engine can recognize so that all crit dmg besides AOEs heal.

It's also pretty awesome how much a lower cost and longer duration helps surge.

Just to inject some positiveness into the thread as well :P

i'm starting to feel ZoS dont care.
the "buff" for thundering shows they havent a clue about storcerers

Jar_Ek wrote: »

It will also help surge when shields can be critted, but until zos work out a way to prevent multiple simultaneous heals from aoe skills we will be stuck with a cooldown. However zos could at least let us test the lower cool down with DoT crit heals.

I think that surge on damage shields was accounted for before the release of path 1.6. I rememberSu in the 1.6.3 patch notes for PTS surge was given this:

Surge (All Ranks & Morphs): This ability can now trigger off of doing damage to player characters that are using damage mitigation shields.

Found here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/152188/pts-patch-notes-v1-6-3/p1

Even if this wasn't the case and heals are just being coded to work on shields surge healing feels like your trying to spit out a wildfire . I went ahead and did 17% healing from ritual + heavy armor, 25% increased healing from the Lord, and 25% critical damage + healing from the Atronach at 65% crit rating. Quite frankly it was underwhelming with vigor doing most of the heavy lifting. More prone to get you killed chasing those criticals than anything else.

Wrecking blow gives a good burst heal but the potential crit chance is lower and it certainly doesn't heal well in 1vx situations. Quite frankly I don't see sorc as a crit class. We have surge and exploitation. Nothing else really revolves around or boosts crit. Why rely on surge that takes constant damage up time and is reduced twice by battle spirit when you can build for more stable healing or damage shields that are only reduced once.

Personally I think the surge heals are a perk, I just use it as a damage substitute for rally when bow, dual wield, or swordboard swapping (which it is quite useful for). But the reality is surge as a healing spell is mediocre, and no amount of tweaks short of MAYBE removing the cooldown(which even then makes it only marginally better) will make it a reliable ability.

These are my key gripes about stamina sorcs:

(1) Low end burst damage, only sufficient when using wrecking blow or snipe

(2) Poor stamina sustain

(3) Limited healing options (Rally, Vigor -- that's it)

(4) Poor tactical abilities (no abilities that give an edge in 1vX)

(5) Sustained survival is largely dependent on not being hit, while at the same time having limited mobility, and no means to drop out of combat or avoid being hit (like cloak as an example) or absorb damage (shields for example)

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Since stam sorcs dont want thundering presence can I have it back and give them the speed morph please?

you'll hear no argument from me