DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

To be honest I think something like the The Witcher or DragonAge would suit you better if you don't want people to be stronger than you.

I hate these posts. The game is an entertainment medium, and its goal should be popular appeal. You don't get popular appeal by appealing to only a minority of players who have nothing to do except play video games all day. The game progression should be designed around the amount of time that normal people who go to school or jobs have to put into the game. There's plenty of other infinite grind games for people who have nothing better to do, this game does not need that mechanic. It's more fun to play when you're at a competitive level with other players, which means capping progression at some point.

Anyone who has a sense of entitlement over the amount of time 'invested' in a game, or feels that time spent should be rewarded into perpetuity at the expense of other players, is basically just 'chasing the dragon.' There's other MMOs for you, this one should be fun for more people.

DenMoria wrote: »

Meh. Doesn't matter. As long as I'm happy and comfortable, I could care less if little Mr. HS got it. Sure it might hurt, but, meh. It doesn't really matter to me. I'm not competitive by nature. Of course, if the got rid of me and put little Mr. HS in my place, I can pretty much guarantee that Little Mr. HS wouldn't make it to the end of the week. If you think I'm kidding, you really, really better not cross me. In 50 years, there are always a few bodies in the basement.

This is why I never join guilds.

TheBull wrote: »

Math math math

These are interesting numbers, and useful to see. Now, let me ask you- what affect does the first 300-360 CPs have on your overall health, magicka and stamina vs 1000 / 2000/ 3000/ 3600 CPs? Is the bulk of the return for those stats also within the first 300, or will players using CP continue to see solid gains well into their grinding?

We see what the overall stat gain is for the first 360, but what are the exact gains going from say 361 to 1000? 361 to 2000? What would you be looking at if you evenly distributed your points?

I'm not trying to put you on the spot, btw. I know you were just relaying information from another user. If you personally do not know, that's fine, but this is an open ended question for anyone willing/knowledgeable enough on the exact math to answer.

Sylance9 wrote: »

so how would you feel if at your place of employment, someone in highschool got the same job/salary as you. After you spent years working for it all because he felt entitled to it?

First of all, that happens everywhere, every day. You can be the janitor of a court house for 40 years and the new grad lawyer fresh out of law school is going to make more money than you. No other people in the world think they deserve more simply because they have been there longer besides MMORPG players.

The current chess world champion is Magnus Carlsen, he's 24. He beat Viswanathan Anand, 45, for the title. Anand had been playing chess when Carlsen was still crapping in his hands and wiping in on his face.

Usain Bolt holds the world record in the 100m sprints, there are most definitely runners that have been running a lot longer than he has that can not beat his record.

The Grammy doesn't go to the singer who's been around the longest.

Any game that allows players that have been logged in longer than others to have significantly more powerful characters simply because they "called dibs" is a sad game. It appears ESO wants to be that kind of game. Real players can't take such a game seriously. It'd be like the Cardinals demanding they win every super bowl by default simply because they are the oldest team in the league, no one would take that seriously.

Thunder wrote: »

Sylance9 wrote: »

so how would you feel if at your place of employment, someone in highschool got the same job/salary as you. After you spent years working for it all because he felt entitled to it?

First of all, that happens everywhere, every day. You can be the janitor of a court house for 40 years and the new grad lawyer fresh out of law school is going to make more money than you. No other people in the world think they deserve more simply because they have been there longer besides MMORPG players.

The current chess world champion is Magnus Carlsen, he's 24. He beat Viswanathan Anand, 45, for the title. Anand had been playing chess when Carlsen was still crapping in his hands and wiping in on his face.

Usain Bolt holds the world record in the 100m sprints, there are most definitely runners that have been running a lot longer than he has that can not beat his record.

The Grammy doesn't go to the singer who's been around the longest.

This might be the single most amazing post I've seen on this, or any video game, forum to date. I would make the entire thing my signature, if I could.

The difference is the law student made an investment, and invested time in starting out at a higher position than a janitor. You wouldnt want a janitor who didnt spend time in school arguing your case in court would you? The janitor was fine with his job, and didnt want to spend any time trying to get a better career and settled with being just a janitor. the same applies here.

Im nowhere near 300 cp, and havent grinded it terribly so this is coming from someone who is underpowered to a majority of the people that are really playing hard core. Do I think people that invest time in advancing their CP should be rewarded? Yes. Do I get pwnd in PVP? Yes. Just because I dont have as much CP as them, and dont have time to be a hard core CP grinder doesnt mean they dont deserve it.

I am not for people who advance their CP with mechanics that are them basically macroing and not playing the game though.

Do I think there should be different tiers of pvp maybe based on CP levels? Yes. I also think there should be alternate ways to advance your pvp skills and earn AP like arenas or mini battles. But that is a different thread.

Sylance9 wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

To be honest I think something like the The Witcher or DragonAge would suit you better if you don't want people to be stronger than you.

And this is exactly the problem with MMOs. Unless you have a life where you can dedicate an inordinate amount of hours to these things, you will always be hopelessly behind. I enjoy ESO, but I learned a long, long time ago (okay a month ago), that I will never be able to compete in PvP - ever. I simply do not have the time in my life to dedicate to all the farming, grinding, huge time-suck, etc... that is required to get to the high VR levels, let along the CP system. At best I'll make VR1 perhaps by the end of the year and VR14 by 2019.

It's sad, but, it's the truth. All I can do is keep plugging along and hope that, someday I'll be able to compete, but, until then, I'll settle for the scraps I can get and enjoy the game for what it is.

Now, if they'd add text chat, maybe I could join some groups and not constantly *** them off because I can't "chat" with them. I'll just keep on trying and healing and dealing out damage when needed (and probably when it's not) and hope I've done the right thing.

I salute all you high level VR's and all you massive CP pointload folks, but I'll just have to look at Mount Olympus from the ground and worship the ground you walk on up there in the stratosphere!

so how would you feel if at your place of employment, someone in highschool got the same job/salary as you. After you spent years working for it all because he felt entitled to it?

This

Sylance9 wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

To be honest I think something like the The Witcher or DragonAge would suit you better if you don't want people to be stronger than you.

And this is exactly the problem with MMOs. Unless you have a life where you can dedicate an inordinate amount of hours to these things, you will always be hopelessly behind. I enjoy ESO, but I learned a long, long time ago (okay a month ago), that I will never be able to compete in PvP - ever. I simply do not have the time in my life to dedicate to all the farming, grinding, huge time-suck, etc... that is required to get to the high VR levels, let along the CP system. At best I'll make VR1 perhaps by the end of the year and VR14 by 2019.

It's sad, but, it's the truth. All I can do is keep plugging along and hope that, someday I'll be able to compete, but, until then, I'll settle for the scraps I can get and enjoy the game for what it is.

Now, if they'd add text chat, maybe I could join some groups and not constantly *** them off because I can't "chat" with them. I'll just keep on trying and healing and dealing out damage when needed (and probably when it's not) and hope I've done the right thing.

I salute all you high level VR's and all you massive CP pointload folks, but I'll just have to look at Mount Olympus from the ground and worship the ground you walk on up there in the stratosphere!

so how would you feel if at your place of employment, someone in highschool got the same job/salary as you. After you spent years working for it all because he felt entitled to it?

That analogy actually proves MY point... If you work 20 years and you reach the top of your profession, someone else who comes along and does the exact same thing as you, should achieve your status as well. You will both be the same. You will be more seasoned, and overall better at your job, but you will be the same rank. In ESO, its not like that. I'm not saying they should be the same, im just proving the flaw in your analogy. Also, in jobs, you have dreams/goals of achieving something and this is what keeps you going. In ESO... you can't have dreams of being the best pvper or for that matter a GOOD pvper as anyone that has played longer than you WILL be stronger than you. It nearly defeats the purpose of playing the game.

MaximusDargus wrote: »

There is no fix for CP because its not broken.

Players mentality is broken since they expect their character to be as good at first time of playing game as someone who was playing the game for over a year.

There are other things that need to be fixed, like finally adding PVP campaign without CP (because even if apparently everyone wants a challenge, PVPers will still cry when they fail and get killed by a "challenging opponent")

Your opinion is broken.

Let me preface this with, I don't really care all that much one way or the other about anything concerning ESO. I don't take this game seriously at all. I can't fathom how anyone could, especially with uncapped character stats that are earned as simply as running around in circles pressing the same button over and over again.

Now, back to that broken opinion of yours. First, your words don't even make any logical sense what so ever...

"Players mentality is broken since they expect their character to be as good at first time of playing game as someone who was playing the game for over a year."

What do you mean by first time playing game? Do you really think anyone logs in on a level 1 character and expects it to be as powerful as a geared VR14 character? Of course you don't, as obviously there's no one that ever even suggested anything even remotely similar to this. So what you really mean by "first time of playing" is someone with a freshly geared capped character, but you want to belittle the achievement of gearing and capping a character so you can play up the idea of running around in circles killing the same mobs over and over again 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, for a year as "earning" the right to have a more powerful character than everyone else.

The entire problem here is that the champion point system is something new. New for ESO, as well as new for any other MMORPG. Before the champion point system, ESO, like all other MMORPG's, had a cap, a point at which a character could gain no more power through stats for its stats were as high as possible and any further progress was only attainable through skillful use of the character's abilities by the player. This cap was blurry as hell because not all characters were built the same or geared the same, even at cap, but if Joe had more X than Bob it was because Bob had more Y.

With an uncapped system like the Champion Point system in ESO, there is no end. Character stats go up and up and up and never stop. If there were some form of governing factor to rein in this unchecked expansion perhaps it would seem less ludicrous. For example, if a player had to complete a long and arduous quest chain to be granted a CP, at least each CP would have to be, on some basic level, earned. As opposed to simply drinking XP pots and running around in circles killing the same mobs over and over for hours on end.

The worst part is what this system does to the player base. In other MMO's players complain about "the hamster wheel", having to run and run for what seems like an eternity. With the champion point system in ESO it's in fact an eternity! Bethesimax thinks so little of their player base that they literally incorporated an honest to goodness hamster wheel. I feel horrible for the people out there with social disorders who are compelled to run that wheel all day, every day. I am absolutely heartbroken for anyone under the age of 40 who plays ESO and is wasting the prime years of their life running in a virtual hamster wheel created by Bethesimax in a futile attempt to milk their last few remaining customers for every last drop they can get.

No, there is no defense for this system, what so ever. No one has offered any defense for the system because it is indefensible. It is clearly broken, despite being intentional.

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

To be honest I think something like the The Witcher or DragonAge would suit you better if you don't want people to be stronger than you.

I'm a long time mmo player and i've never seen an mmo with a system this broken. It needs to have a cap. It isn't fair to new/returning players as they will never be as good as anyone that has been playing longer than them.

There is an cap, you cant get more than 3600, its alot but its still means we all will reach it one day, hopefully this enqourage you a little

DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

To be honest I think something like the The Witcher or DragonAge would suit you better if you don't want people to be stronger than you.

Running around killing mobs like junkie is NOT PLAYING THE GAME it's BS!!!!!
I ll stay in game as long as i have plus acc No i won't become CP zombie like the most do

Only advice I can give OP is to find a decent guild. Pug for a while get to know some people and find a guild that works. Don't go for the elitist raiders, or the spamming "we have 490 members looking for more guilds" Spend your game time playing and finding a decent guild.
This will eliminate "getting booted for low CPs, gear etc." and if PvP is your thing find a guild oriented towards Cyrodil. This will allow you to do a lot more content, have more fun, and overall improve, cp, gear etc. much easier. You will never catch up to the 60+ hour a week crowd (nor should you).