Returning player: Are there plans to fix the champion system?

Mr.Turtlesworth · August 2015

I really want to play this game but I only have 80 champion points and thus will be complete poop compared to everyone else and hopelessly behind everyone... I REALLY want to play but honestly i don't want to invest a bunch of time into this game if im going to get kicked from every PvE group and get 1 shotted in pvp...

lagrue · August 2015

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

I really want to play this game but I only have 80 champion points and thus will be complete poop compared to everyone else and hopelessly behind everyone... I REALLY want to play but honestly i don't want to invest a bunch of time into this game if im going to get kicked from every PvE group and get 1 shotted in pvp...

If people kick you from PVE groups then you simply need to find better groups or assemble on on the forums.... unless of course you really aren't prepared for the dungeon - but if you can survive and still get kicked then you just need to find cooler people. I don't even have 80 points and I get through most dungeons fine (group and public).

As for the 1 shotted in PVP - I seriously doubt that would happen. I went into VR14 Cyrodiil at VR1 and I was able to handle players many levels above me, and was able to survive their attack (more realistically you die in 3-4 hits).

PVP scales you to whatever the Campaign's difficulty is, so you really shouldn't worry much about being underleveled for it.

DragonxTortoise · August 2015

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

To be honest I think something like the The Witcher or DragonAge would suit you better if you don't want people to be stronger than you.

Mr.Turtlesworth · August 2015

DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

To be honest I think something like the The Witcher or DragonAge would suit you better if you don't want people to be stronger than you.

I'm a long time mmo player and i've never seen an mmo with a system this broken. It needs to have a cap. It isn't fair to new/returning players as they will never be as good as anyone that has been playing longer than them.

jeevin · August 2015

DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

To be honest I think something like the The Witcher or DragonAge would suit you better if you don't want people to be stronger than you.

So much derp right there. The Champion System rewards grinding far more than any other form of play in game. So everyone should grind mindlessly to get on the level?

Domander · August 2015

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

To be honest I think something like the The Witcher or DragonAge would suit you better if you don't want people to be stronger than you.

I'm a long time mmo player and i've never seen an mmo with a system this broken. It needs to have a cap. It isn't fair to new/returning players as they will never be as good as anyone that has been playing longer than them.

That's true in many MMO's

I would counter point to say that it's not fair to veteran players to have new players quickly be equals.

failkiwib16_ESO · August 2015

You will regardless of champion points get the chance of getting 1shotted in pvp. However, for pve nobody asks about your amount of champion points, unless you join óne of the better raid guilds. Even there, the limit is usually put around 100cp.

People join this game and play as new players, nobody is expected to have maxed out cp if they recently hit max level rank. Most players I know got around 200-400cp by dungeoning, not grinding, and they got no issue with joining up with new players.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · August 2015

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

I really want to play this game but I only have 80 champion points and thus will be complete poop compared to everyone else and hopelessly behind everyone... I REALLY want to play but honestly i don't want to invest a bunch of time into this game if im going to get kicked from every PvE group and get 1 shotted in pvp...

They stated that they are going to put in a seasonal cap on how many champ points you can distribute on abilities, and they are going to make it really fast to catch up if you are far behind the cap.

This is something they will do pretty fast they say, but don't expect it until after imperical city.

Kloud · August 2015

It's not broke it's how the game is now played take it or leave it

Zorgon_The_Revenged · August 2015

DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

To be honest I think something like the The Witcher or DragonAge would suit you better if you don't want people to be stronger than you.

Or, a better way to look at it, this is a game and games are supposed to be enjoyed. Being a massively multi player game, there are lots of players and finding players with your play time/play style/character level might take time but can be the most rewarding part of the game.

rager82b14_ESO · August 2015

No thanks, I only have 8 points right now as I am coming back to the game, and I like the thought of a system with no cap.

Always having a carrot to chase that I can go at my own pace>none. This system is fine, and a cap would ruin it.

Sausage · August 2015

Go play. 1 month, 3 cp per day, is 90. Keep that up like 2 month and you're near the top. 4 star in the forums and only 80 CPs, thats embarrassing, son.

Thunder · August 2015

DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

Tragically, it appears most MMO developers agree with you. To understand why I find this rational tragic, one need only consider how ludicrous this would be when applied to other game genres.

Call of Duty for example:

Of course you barely scratched me with those 10 head shots and I one shot you with an AoE attack that was merely pointed in your general direction, I've got 10K hours in game n00b! L2PADLED!!! (learn to play all day long every day).

21jws10 · August 2015

@DragonxTortoise I really didn't like the witcher, couldn't stand it.

rager82b14_ESO · August 2015

Thunder wrote: »

DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

Tragically, it appears most MMO developers agree with you. To understand why I find this rational tragic, one need only consider how ludicrous this would be when applied to other game genres.

Call of Duty for example:

Of course you barely scratched me with those 10 head shots and I one shot you with an AoE attack that was merely pointed in your general direction, I've got 10K hours in game n00b! L2PADLED!!! (learn to play all day long every day).

Other types of games are not MMOs.

In the older days, Mud games. You invested time into the game you got reward.It was less about what others had, and more about your own personal story. When PVP became a factor. There was skills that help people escape, the people invest into because from a common sense stand point. This war veteran that is coming down on you is scary, and you who just been killing goats for skins has nothing on him. You learn to do things to live.

MMOs started becoming boring when they wanted every thing to be fair. In a good rpg world, just like real life. Things are not fair, and the ones who spend more time should have a edge.

The perfect mmo to me is.

1) Many paths to power for all types of play styles no right way to play. (crafters/soloers/groupers/raiders) they all play a role in the world.

2) Ever changing world. Some thing that no mmo got really right yet.

3) Fast content updates. (some do some don't)

Coming from someone who has a heavy mud back ground. The RPG elements of games has been taking a turn for the worse. Your personal story does not matter as much. People stop looking up to players who are powerful and spent a lot of time ingame. Instead, they call them names or no lifers. Now people want a "fair" chance with minimal effort.

*sighs* times sure are changing.

Thunder · August 2015

In response to Rager...

What is an RPG?

There's a smudge of black on one end, a speckle of white on the other, and an ocean of gray inbetween.

I think what an RPG should be is better defined by what qualities a great RPG player would exemplify rather than getting bogged down into specific game mechanics. I don't think a great a RPG player should be required to have lightning fast reflexes coupled with laser precise targeting, yet a great RPG player should indeed be required to do a great deal more than stand in one spot while spamming the same OP ability over and over again.

To me a great RPG player strategically analyzes situation on the battlefield and tactically employs a sequence of abilities that synergize with their character build to efficiently combat the enemy while mitigating as much incoming damage as possible through position and defensive stance.

When I envision the ultimate RPG scenario, I see a player diving out from underneath a giant maul just as an enraged boss is about to pound them into lunch meat, and with their last drop of power they strike back felling the mighty foe. Like a champion MMA fighter, while the timing and position of their every move was crucial to victory, ultimately it was their choice of attack in each instance that was of pinnacle importance.

Bruce Lee on the left, Mike Tyson on the right, a true RPG hero would be Indiana Jones.

I think the best an MMORPG can do is keep any eye on each end of the spectrum and attempt to plot a course right down the middle. In my opinion, uncapped stats achieved through relentlessly grinding easy content is on a collision course with Farmville.

rager82b14_ESO · August 2015

For myself. RPG and immersion is two sides of the same coin. The combat is just the fluff in the rpg area. What matters for myself is more of how the world works and how it comes to life/tells story.

For example.

Crafting, and selling items plays a major part of a world. The economy of the world in a sense. Now we have this game who uses a guild system to sell items and such. From a rpg stand point that is neat, but like all things. There should be a balance.
What makes a new virtual world fun, is the economy of that world. How hard people work, the time they willing to spend/invest into the crafting. With that being said, the word that a lot of people hate. "convenience" also plays a heavy part on what a world is. The ah system leans to heavily on one side and not the other. I don't like that. (but i am sure many do. This is all my personal taste.)

Another example is Champion points. I love the thought of keep playing, doing my thing and becoming stronger over time. Level limits have been around, but from my personal view. Items should not be the only limits to power. As you fight more and more you should grow stronger. People always explain this as the player getting better at his rotation. A more ooc way of looking at things, but I feel like that takes away as well. I love a system that the more time you invest the stronger they become. This is his story, and saving the world is just the first step. Getting better gear is nice, but even when you become the best at a art. You spend your whole life advancing it and getting better.

When I was a beta testers. I asked them if they could some how make a random gen dungeon system, that players can adjust how hard or tough it is. Solo/duo/group..Go in and have fun. As you grow stronger, you can make the dungeons tougher, and feel yourself advancing. As you scale it up the dungeon give more reward/risk. The dungeons could be huge, or they could be like zones that people can enjoy. having some control.

Picture a system like that, and tie it in with champion points. How amazing that could be? Content that grows as you do.

mips_winnt · August 2015

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

I really want to play this game but I only have 80 champion points and thus will be complete poop compared to everyone else and hopelessly behind everyone...

I'm also a "returning player" and personally I think the Champion System is quite nifty as is, it adds a whole new dimension to character development and I was pleasantly surprised when I came back to ESO and found this new system. On the other hand I've never really cared how my characters compare to other players characters so perhaps I'm biased, best of luck may the CP's rain down from heaven upon you.

Calandrae · August 2015

I returned to the game after an almost six month break a couple of months ago. I still have less than 150 champion points (and had way less than 80 when restarting to play), but have managed to finish most of the PvE content just fine.

I play with skilled, mature and friendly people, nobody has ever questioned my participation because I have less CP than them. I play my role well and efficiently enough, that's all it takes.

This is a game and it's meant to be fun. If you get kicked out of groups only because of your champion points, then you need to find more sensible people to play with. I would suggest joining a suitable guild.

What comes to Cyrodiil, I don't like PvP. But I'm sure I would get one-hit killed even with a hundred more CPs.

Mr.Turtlesworth · August 2015

Sausage wrote: »

Go play. 1 month, 3 cp per day, is 90. Keep that up like 2 month and you're near the top. 4 star in the forums and only 80 CPs, thats embarrassing, son.

I achieved 4 stars well before the release of the champion system. I quit ESO after the champion system was released.

Tolmos · August 2015

Domander wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

To be honest I think something like the The Witcher or DragonAge would suit you better if you don't want people to be stronger than you.

I'm a long time mmo player and i've never seen an mmo with a system this broken. It needs to have a cap. It isn't fair to new/returning players as they will never be as good as anyone that has been playing longer than them.

That's true in many MMO's

I would counter point to say that it's not fair to veteran players to have new players quickly be equals.

I'm not sure I'd call Level 1 to VR14 "quickly"...

markt84 · August 2015

Kloud wrote: »

It's not broke it's how the game is now played take it or leave it

A system that rewards npc farming over actually playing the game, is broken

Tolmos · August 2015

To the OP: I understand entirely how you feel. As a newer player, I feel completely overwhelmed with the length of the grind that is ahead of me with the CP system. On top of that, the distance between myself and where the players who are currently grinding CP are feels downright insurmountable. And when the only advice that's supposed to make you feel better is "You're not supposed to be able to compete with players who have been around longer than you. Just hide in groups (in PvP) and follow in the wake of senior players if you don't want to die constantly", it's kind of hard to stay motivated.

I joined the game to do competitive PvP, but with the current system it's not really an option for me. Getting to VR14 and gearing up is one thing... but CP? That's another monster entirely.

I will say this- apparently the other day ZOS mentioned an incoming CP cap that will help newer players a TON by stopping grinders/botters from flying too far ahead of everyone else. This, combined with the possible CP free PvP campaigns a ZOS employee also mentioned will pretty much negate a lot of the issues with the system. Even if you don't come back now (trust me, I get it), hover around and see what they say.

Shimmer · August 2015

I suppose all of you who dont want to invest the time into points would like a "iwinbutton" like wow has. The champion system isnt broken. If you dont invest time, then no you wont be as good as others. Ive never seen anyone kick someone from a group because of champion point level...

DenMoria · August 2015

DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

To be honest I think something like the The Witcher or DragonAge would suit you better if you don't want people to be stronger than you.

And this is exactly the problem with MMOs. Unless you have a life where you can dedicate an inordinate amount of hours to these things, you will always be hopelessly behind. I enjoy ESO, but I learned a long, long time ago (okay a month ago), that I will never be able to compete in PvP - ever. I simply do not have the time in my life to dedicate to all the farming, grinding, huge time-suck, etc... that is required to get to the high VR levels, let along the CP system. At best I'll make VR1 perhaps by the end of the year and VR14 by 2019.

It's sad, but, it's the truth. All I can do is keep plugging along and hope that, someday I'll be able to compete, but, until then, I'll settle for the scraps I can get and enjoy the game for what it is.

Now, if they'd add text chat, maybe I could join some groups and not constantly *** them off because I can't "chat" with them. I'll just keep on trying and healing and dealing out damage when needed (and probably when it's not) and hope I've done the right thing.

I salute all you high level VR's and all you massive CP pointload folks, but I'll just have to look at Mount Olympus from the ground and worship the ground you walk on up there in the stratosphere!

Shimmer · August 2015

DenMoria wrote: »

DragonxTortoise wrote: »

Sorry but it's an MMO. MMOS require lots of time. Why should people who have put in more time be penalised because you don't want to invest time into the game.

To be honest I think something like the The Witcher or DragonAge would suit you better if you don't want people to be stronger than you.

And this is exactly the problem with MMOs. Unless you have a life where you can dedicate an inordinate amount of hours to these things, you will always be hopelessly behind. I enjoy ESO, but I learned a long, long time ago (okay a month ago), that I will never be able to compete in PvP - ever. I simply do not have the time in my life to dedicate to all the farming, grinding, huge time-suck, etc... that is required to get to the high VR levels, let along the CP system. At best I'll make VR1 perhaps by the end of the year and VR14 by 2019.

It's sad, but, it's the truth. All I can do is keep plugging along and hope that, someday I'll be able to compete, but, until then, I'll settle for the scraps I can get and enjoy the game for what it is.

Now, if they'd add text chat, maybe I could join some groups and not constantly *** them off because I can't "chat" with them. I'll just keep on trying and healing and dealing out damage when needed (and probably when it's not) and hope I've done the right thing.

I salute all you high level VR's and all you massive CP pointload folks, but I'll just have to look at Mount Olympus from the ground and worship the ground you walk on up there in the stratosphere!

so how would you feel if at your place of employment, someone in highschool got the same job/salary as you. After you spent years working for it all because he felt entitled to it?

TequilaFire · August 2015

Well a single player game you play for around 40 hours average and get to the highest level at the end and go to the next game.
An MMO if any good has no end and continues for years with the player advancing all along.
If we all reached top level of advancement in a couple of months, we would move on just like a single player game.

Acrolas · August 2015

Sylance9 wrote: »

so how would you feel if at your place of employment, someone in highschool got the same job/salary as you. After you spent years working for it all because he felt entitled to it?

But it's working out so well for Gravity Payments.

Oh, wait...

Kuroinu · August 2015

It's true that too many players of MMO games these days want to be max level asap. This is a sickness that needs to be cured with patience. Some player attitudes ruin the game they want to play by making impulsive threads and posts about what they don't like and eventually(albeit uncommonly) these opinions seep through to the games developers and a tweak or change occurs were there need not have been. Sometimes the best decision is not making one.

This isn't directed at any part of ESO, just at some types of players and understanding that making something easier isn't always making it better.

wrathofrraath · August 2015

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Go play. 1 month, 3 cp per day, is 90. Keep that up like 2 month and you're near the top. 4 star in the forums and only 80 CPs, thats embarrassing, son.

I achieved 4 stars well before the release of the champion system. I quit ESO after the champion system was released.

If only zos was tracking our xp that whole time...

Kozer · August 2015

I love the "Find a better group" and "mmos are supposed to take time" arguements that people use.

It takes time to find even 1 group. Now he has to go waste more of his time finding others.

Yes mmos are supposed to take time. But they should try to balance stuff. Its not fun coming back or starting a new mmo and finding out you have 100 levels to go to max. Or that you need to grind out a crazy amount of XP to get anywhere with it.