Can we make class shields even?
pvpaddict42
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Right now there is a big disparity in class damage absorption shields and a lot of it is due to what resource pool they scale from. Sun Shield and Obsidian Shield (and their various morphs) scale off health where as Conjured Ward ( and it's morphs) not to mention non-class shields like Steadfast Ward and Annulment scale off magicka. This allows sorcerers specifically to double dip benefits by scaling up their defenses the more they increase their offense and resource spending power, where as the other class absorption shields are forced to either have weak/sub par shields in order to increase their resource allocation pool (actually have the juice to perform actions) or increase their health to beef up their shields, but then have little resources to perform actions.
As Conjured Ward is the only class shield that is not scaling off health, how about that get changed to be in line with the other shields, and if you wanted to change the non class shields to work off health as well, I think that would be good as well. Alternatively, if you don't want to go that route, then switch Sun Shield and Obsidian Shield over to scale off magicka as well. As it is, sorcerers can increase their defense substantially while ALSO allowing them to be able to spam the shield over and over again pretty much infinitely because everything is based around one resource pool, but the other shield classes are forced to split their resource pools preventing them from ever achieving any similar sort of level. This magicka based scaling on shields is also the cause of the very often mentioned topic of shield stacking.
In short, either make all the shields scale health or make them all scale off magicka. There have been many attempts to "fix" the shield stacking problem, which results in continued hammers to the class shields, but as long as this fundamental difference is there, you're just going to destroy the health based shields while only scratching the magicka ones. Having played a Templar for a very long time, I am rather unhappy that not only is the true source of the issue not being addressed, but yet am seeing double reductions in skills (Blazing shield which not only is losing shield absorption, but also is having it's damage reduced, so that instead of doing 50% reduced damage, it's doing 25% reduced damage...seriously...wtf). Please fix this, thank you.
As Conjured Ward is the only class shield that is not scaling off health, how about that get changed to be in line with the other shields, and if you wanted to change the non class shields to work off health as well, I think that would be good as well. Alternatively, if you don't want to go that route, then switch Sun Shield and Obsidian Shield over to scale off magicka as well. As it is, sorcerers can increase their defense substantially while ALSO allowing them to be able to spam the shield over and over again pretty much infinitely because everything is based around one resource pool, but the other shield classes are forced to split their resource pools preventing them from ever achieving any similar sort of level. This magicka based scaling on shields is also the cause of the very often mentioned topic of shield stacking.
In short, either make all the shields scale health or make them all scale off magicka. There have been many attempts to "fix" the shield stacking problem, which results in continued hammers to the class shields, but as long as this fundamental difference is there, you're just going to destroy the health based shields while only scratching the magicka ones. Having played a Templar for a very long time, I am rather unhappy that not only is the true source of the issue not being addressed, but yet am seeing double reductions in skills (Blazing shield which not only is losing shield absorption, but also is having it's damage reduced, so that instead of doing 50% reduced damage, it's doing 25% reduced damage...seriously...wtf). Please fix this, thank you.
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Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZoS, can you please give breath of life or Dragonblood to Sorcerer ? Not ? Hm, I see.Edited by Dracane on August 3, 2015 6:42PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.8 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hardened Ward isn't the issue, Healing Ward is. Healing Ward scales off of health not Magicka. If anything healing ward is too strong which is why all Magicka NBs and Sorcs are so hard to kill right now when they're spamming that.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
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pvpaddict42✭✭✭ZoS, can you please give breath of life or Dragonblood to Sorcerer ? Not ? Hm, I see.
No instead sorcerers get bolt escape, increasing mobility and giving the ability to get out of bad situations more quickly, similar to how nightblades get Shadow Cloak. In some situations it's more ideal and useful than heals, less so in others. Damage absorption shields however are in three classes, yet one class is scaling from a different source from the other two and it creates a problem. So level the playing field at least in terms of how the game mechanics are working.4 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭pvpaddict42 wrote: »ZoS, can you please give breath of life or Dragonblood to Sorcerer ? Not ? Hm, I see.
No instead sorcerers get bolt escape, increasing mobility and giving the ability to get out of bad situations more quickly, similar to how nightblades get Shadow Cloak. In some situations it's more ideal and useful than heals, less so in others. Damage absorption shields however are in three classes, yet one class is scaling from a different source from the other two and it creates a problem. So level the playing field at least in terms of how the game mechanics are working.
That's funny because I killed every single sorc that tried bolt escaping away from me last night...it was pathetically easy. Bolt Escape is no longer an escape. Once they bolt 5 times I know they're virtually OOM.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube2 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Okay... well I always kill blinking Sorcs.
I will never understand, why people don't get it. What do you think, why Sorcerers shield scales of Magicka ? Because he is a mage, he has no self heal so he needs better protection ?
What do you think, why DKs and Templars shield scales of health ? Because they have strong self heals and don't need a strong shield. But Templar tanks need a strong shield, because their self heals are less effective when they have high health but low Magicka. So their shield scales of Health.
Same goes for DK, both classes are excellent tanks.Edited by Dracane on August 3, 2015 6:58PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.2 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hardened Ward isn't the issue, Healing Ward is. Healing Ward scales off of health not Magicka. If anything healing ward is too strong which is why all Magicka NBs and Sorcs are so hard to kill right now when they're spamming that.
jep the 300% shield increasement needs to be changed into a 300% heal increasement in pvp (keep it as it is in pve)
(and completly deactivated for ward ally in pvp)
Edited by Tankqull on August 3, 2015 6:58PMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
pvpaddict42✭✭✭pvpaddict42 wrote: »ZoS, can you please give breath of life or Dragonblood to Sorcerer ? Not ? Hm, I see.
No instead sorcerers get bolt escape, increasing mobility and giving the ability to get out of bad situations more quickly, similar to how nightblades get Shadow Cloak. In some situations it's more ideal and useful than heals, less so in others. Damage absorption shields however are in three classes, yet one class is scaling from a different source from the other two and it creates a problem. So level the playing field at least in terms of how the game mechanics are working.
That's funny because I killed every single sorc that tried bolt escaping away from me last night...it was pathetically easy. Bolt Escape is no longer an escape. Once they bolt 5 times I know they're virtually OOM.
Bolt Escape is not a perfect defense anymore, which is the same with healing. How many times have you killed people that used a heal? Probably a hell of a lot. Healing and mobility don't guarantee wins or always surviving, they simply help. I get that sorcerers want to have their cake and eat it too, which is fine, just make sure that this option is there for the other classes which also have shields. As long as ZOS makes the mechanic work the same for all the classes, I don't really care either way.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭pvpaddict42 wrote: »pvpaddict42 wrote: »ZoS, can you please give breath of life or Dragonblood to Sorcerer ? Not ? Hm, I see.
No instead sorcerers get bolt escape, increasing mobility and giving the ability to get out of bad situations more quickly, similar to how nightblades get Shadow Cloak. In some situations it's more ideal and useful than heals, less so in others. Damage absorption shields however are in three classes, yet one class is scaling from a different source from the other two and it creates a problem. So level the playing field at least in terms of how the game mechanics are working.
That's funny because I killed every single sorc that tried bolt escaping away from me last night...it was pathetically easy. Bolt Escape is no longer an escape. Once they bolt 5 times I know they're virtually OOM.
Bolt Escape is not a perfect defense anymore, which is the same with healing. How many times have you killed people that used a heal? Probably a hell of a lot. Healing and mobility don't guarantee wins or always surviving, they simply help. I get that sorcerers want to have their cake and eat it too, which is fine, just make sure that this option is there for the other classes which also have shields. As long as ZOS makes the mechanic work the same for all the classes, I don't really care either way.
It's there. Harness Magicka and Steadfast Ward.
And on top of that, you have your excellent class heals and your own class shield also helps. Stop being greedy please.
You could have it all, but refuse to use it. Not ZoS' faultAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.1 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The templar's shield deals damage (despite how much it was nerfed) and the dk's shield is cast on allies as well. Is that a point to note or is it just "sorc's spam shields too much"?0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Templars spam heals and Jesus Beam, Sorcerers spam shields, DKs spam Wings and Whip, Nightblades spam cloak and deadly burst or roll dodge.
Everyone loves spamming
Edited by Dracane on August 3, 2015 7:12PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭Okay... well I always kill blinking Sorcs.
I will never understand, why people don't get it. What do you think, why Sorcerers shield scales of Magicka ? Because he is a mage, he has no self heal so he needs better protection ?
What do you think, why DKs and Templars shield scales of health ? Because they have strong self heals and don't need a strong shield. But Templar tanks need a strong shield, because their self heals are less effective when they have high health but low Magicka. So their shield scales of Health.
Same goes for DK, both classes are excellent tanks.
Pets, Dark exchane, surge and every dark magic ability heals yourself. So yea Sorcs dont have self heals...PC,EU, EP
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pvpaddict42✭✭✭Needless to say, the ones protesting are sorcerers as they realize how much this would effect things. That if nothing else should show how much this particular mechanic needs to be looked at. Please check into it ZOS and fix things up. Thanks.
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Jolinius✭✭I just hear sorcs on here complaining. Its obviously not fair for the other classes with damage shields. I have a v14 sorc ive been playing since beta and i only use 1 damage shield and its only 7k and i still destroy people but im not completely invincible. L2P.0
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Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭The templar's shield deals damage (despite how much it was nerfed) and the dk's shield is cast on allies as well. Is that a point to note or is it just "sorc's spam shields too much"?
jep no one is mentioning the 10man group situation
have 10 dks cast their shields = 30k+ shields on everybody
have 10 sorc cast their shield = 10-15k on everbodyspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Rayste✭✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »Okay... well I always kill blinking Sorcs.
I will never understand, why people don't get it. What do you think, why Sorcerers shield scales of Magicka ? Because he is a mage, he has no self heal so he needs better protection ?
What do you think, why DKs and Templars shield scales of health ? Because they have strong self heals and don't need a strong shield. But Templar tanks need a strong shield, because their self heals are less effective when they have high health but low Magicka. So their shield scales of Health.
Same goes for DK, both classes are excellent tanks.
Pets, Dark exchane, surge and every dark magic ability heals yourself. So yea Sorcs dont have self heals...
These are not viable in a PvP setting.
Addict, what class do you play if you don't mind me asking?
If shields are no longer viable, sorc becomes a free kill. The cry for nerfs need to stop.The Teach - AD Templar1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »Okay... well I always kill blinking Sorcs.
I will never understand, why people don't get it. What do you think, why Sorcerers shield scales of Magicka ? Because he is a mage, he has no self heal so he needs better protection ?
What do you think, why DKs and Templars shield scales of health ? Because they have strong self heals and don't need a strong shield. But Templar tanks need a strong shield, because their self heals are less effective when they have high health but low Magicka. So their shield scales of Health.
Same goes for DK, both classes are excellent tanks.
Pets, Dark exchane, surge and every dark magic ability heals yourself. So yea Sorcs dont have self heals...
No. The pet is very buggy and the heal is a channel that happens over a few seconds and is much weaker and lackluster than any other heal in the game. We're talking about REAL, direct heals that you can use all the time and they heal yourself for a large amount. Sorcerer has no access to such heals in his class arsenal.
Sorcerer has combat regeneration with Blood Magic and Surge (under given circumstances only) but not self heal compareable to Templar and DK heals.
If the pet would heal more frequently, for a larger amount, with a smaller cooldown and wouldn't require the Sorcerer to be under 35% health (and believe me, even then it mostly doesnt heal because it is just buggy) Then I would say yes, Sorcerer has an interesting heal.Edited by Dracane on August 3, 2015 7:41PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.1 -
pvpaddict42✭✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »Okay... well I always kill blinking Sorcs.
I will never understand, why people don't get it. What do you think, why Sorcerers shield scales of Magicka ? Because he is a mage, he has no self heal so he needs better protection ?
What do you think, why DKs and Templars shield scales of health ? Because they have strong self heals and don't need a strong shield. But Templar tanks need a strong shield, because their self heals are less effective when they have high health but low Magicka. So their shield scales of Health.
Same goes for DK, both classes are excellent tanks.
Pets, Dark exchane, surge and every dark magic ability heals yourself. So yea Sorcs dont have self heals...
These are not viable in a PvP setting.
Addict, what class do you play if you don't mind me asking?
If shields are no longer viable, sorc becomes a free kill. The cry for nerfs need to stop.
It's not a cry to nerf sorcerers, it's a request to fix a mechanic to a game ability that is being implemented unevenly to all the classes with it. Keep in mind when "nerfs" like damage shield reductions and what not get passed out by ZOS that effects all the classes, but the scaling source is a key factor. Even ZOS realizes that as they changed ultimates and a number of "stamina" based class skills to scale using something other than magicka. If Conjured Ward gets scaled to health like all the other class shields, that simply means that sorcerers that want to have greater survival might actually have to spend points in something other than magicka...like the other classes do. If you are going to push everything into magicka and spell power, that's what folks in the old days called the "glass cannon". It's a viable build, but it has it's drawbacks. Just because every sorcerer has been running around for months and months as "tankmages" doesn't mean when the mechanics are equalized they are just going to be free kills...unless of course those players are terrible and have been solely relying on disproportionate mechanics. In which, case, they will learn how to adjust and play better over time.2 -
Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »Okay... well I always kill blinking Sorcs.
I will never understand, why people don't get it. What do you think, why Sorcerers shield scales of Magicka ? Because he is a mage, he has no self heal so he needs better protection ?
What do you think, why DKs and Templars shield scales of health ? Because they have strong self heals and don't need a strong shield. But Templar tanks need a strong shield, because their self heals are less effective when they have high health but low Magicka. So their shield scales of Health.
Same goes for DK, both classes are excellent tanks.
Pets, Dark exchane, surge and every dark magic ability heals yourself. So yea Sorcs dont have self heals...
These are not viable in a PvP setting.
Addict, what class do you play if you don't mind me asking?
If shields are no longer viable, sorc becomes a free kill. The cry for nerfs need to stop.
Why are they not viable in pvp?
I mean I don't have a high lvl sorc myself so please eplain.
We are not saying that shields should be nefed into the ground but since templars and Dks can't block anymore it's just fair to look at your shields
PC,EU, EP
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Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭The templar's shield deals damage (despite how much it was nerfed) and the dk's shield is cast on allies as well. Is that a point to note or is it just "sorc's spam shields too much"?
jep no one is mentioning the 10man group situation
have 10 dks cast their shields = 30k+ shields on everybody
have 10 sorc cast their shield = 10-15k on everbody
Dk shields don't stack if I cast my ignious and another dk casts one mine will be replacedPC,EU, EP
Der-über-Zwerge-springt (Argonian, Magplar), Surtur Velothi (Dunmer, Magdk), Jaqene H'ghar (Imperial, Stamblade), Puppyslayer (Orc, Stamdk), Dagoth Era (Dunmer, Magblade), Æthmon Trevas (Altmer, Magsorc), Der-Zuletzt-Lacht (Argonian, Magden), Sir-Lanzeflott (Redguard, Stamplar)1 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭pvpaddict42 wrote: »Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »Okay... well I always kill blinking Sorcs.
I will never understand, why people don't get it. What do you think, why Sorcerers shield scales of Magicka ? Because he is a mage, he has no self heal so he needs better protection ?
What do you think, why DKs and Templars shield scales of health ? Because they have strong self heals and don't need a strong shield. But Templar tanks need a strong shield, because their self heals are less effective when they have high health but low Magicka. So their shield scales of Health.
Same goes for DK, both classes are excellent tanks.
Pets, Dark exchane, surge and every dark magic ability heals yourself. So yea Sorcs dont have self heals...
These are not viable in a PvP setting.
Addict, what class do you play if you don't mind me asking?
If shields are no longer viable, sorc becomes a free kill. The cry for nerfs need to stop.
It's not a cry to nerf sorcerers, it's a request to fix a mechanic to a game ability that is being implemented unevenly to all the classes with it. Keep in mind when "nerfs" like damage shield reductions and what not get passed out by ZOS that effects all the classes, but the scaling source is a key factor. Even ZOS realizes that as they changed ultimates and a number of "stamina" based class skills to scale using something other than magicka. If Conjured Ward gets scaled to health like all the other class shields, that simply means that sorcerers that want to have greater survival might actually have to spend points in something other than magicka...like the other classes do. If you are going to push everything into magicka and spell power, that's what folks in the old days called the "glass cannon". It's a viable build, but it has it's drawbacks. Just because every sorcerer has been running around for months and months as "tankmages" doesn't mean when the mechanics are equalized they are just going to be free kills...unless of course those players are terrible and have been solely relying on disproportionate mechanics. In which, case, they will learn how to adjust and play better over time.
WTB Magick based Dodge roll and Bash and other abilities that are being implemented unevently to all the classes.
In 2.1, Hardened ward isn't the issue. Healing Ward is. Other class shields have other utilities other than just being a damage shield.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube2 -
myrrrorb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭We could. It would be easy. ZOS already set the templates up with minor and major buffs/debuffs. We could even change how they work. Shields you from % of damage for example.
But do we want to? It makes sense for it to scale with how powerful you are. Same as damage, with ability and power factored in.0 -
Jolinius✭✭Just dont know why sorcs should have the most powerful shield and the best escape and just stack magic for damage and shielding.Meanwhile you get stuck in the open somewhere on your dk or temp with a puny 3k shield feeling like an ***. Also maybe some people want to play stam sorc.....scalig off health would make it viable for stam sorcs and fair for the other classes. You have bolt escape youll be fine.1
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Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just dont know why sorcs should have the most powerful shield and the best escape and just stack magic for damage and shielding.Meanwhile you get stuck in the open somewhere on your dk or temp with a puny 3k shield feeling like an ***. Also maybe some people want to play stam sorc.....scalig off health would make it viable for stam sorcs and fair for the other classes. You have bolt escape youll be fine.
Most Powerful shield is healing ward.
Best Escape is Greater Expedition + Sprint.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭
Not just gdb all heals were erfed by 50%PC,EU, EP
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Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
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That's because of the pvp debuff. Blood Magic has been nerfed from 8% to 4% (not that it was usefull on live)
People, Sorcerer has the strongest shield for a reason ! When will you finally stop complaining about it ? Sorcerer would be dead, if the shield would scale of Health and other classes would be extremeeeely overpowered if their shield scale of Magicka in addition to their strong defense and self heals.
I don't want to be biased, I want to understand you. But this is impossible, because you're asking for unreasonable things.Edited by Dracane on August 3, 2015 7:55PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.3 -
Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭
That's because of the pvp debuff. Blood Magic has been nerfed from 8% to 4% (not that it was usefull on live)
People, Sorcerer has the strongest shield for a reason ! When will you finally stop complaining about it ? Sorcerer would be dead, if the shield would scale of Health and other classes would be extremeeeely overpowered if their shield scale of Magicka in addition to their strong defense and self heals.
I don't want to be biased, I want to understand you. But this is impossible, because you're asking for unreasonable things.
Like a lot of ppl already said the problem is sorcs can just stack magicka and gain damage and defense at the same time while all others have to decide between more damage or more sustainPC,EU, EP
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Jolinius✭✭Just dont know why sorcs should have the most powerful shield and the best escape and just stack magic for damage and shielding.Meanwhile you get stuck in the open somewhere on your dk or temp with a puny 3k shield feeling like an ***. Also maybe some people want to play stam sorc.....scalig off health would make it viable for stam sorcs and fair for the other classes. You have bolt escape youll be fine.
Most Powerful shield is healing ward.
Best Escape is Greater Expedition + Sprint.
So ok healing ward right which scales off magic so as a dk or temp you put all points in magic it makes your healing ward better but still have a crappy 3k shield where as if your a sorc you have double the shields.Also as dk or temp your still standing in the open somewhere.But you know this.All i see is sorcs that know theyre op trying to keep themselves op.Havnt seen a valid argument yet.L2p.....0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DOES EVERYONE KNOW THAT HARDENED WARD IS CURRENTLY BUGGED AND GIVING TOO MUCH SHIELD???? If not then shut up. All of these people basing their opinions on currently bugged abilities is annoying. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! Healing Ward is bugged too and shielding too much.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points3 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭The templar's shield deals damage (despite how much it was nerfed) and the dk's shield is cast on allies as well. Is that a point to note or is it just "sorc's spam shields too much"?
jep no one is mentioning the 10man group situation
have 10 dks cast their shields = 30k+ shields on everybody
have 10 sorc cast their shield = 10-15k on everbody
@Tankqull ummm what? Since when do my shields (sorc) affect my allies lol are you trolling or being serious? If being serious, please stop spreading misinformation.....0
