Anyone else having Stamina Issues?

Ezareth · August 2015

Maybe it is my playstyle and the changes to blocking but I'm running out of Stamina non-stop on IC.

On live I have 3096 Stamina Regen and its extremely difficult for me to run out of stamina unless I let my drink expire and aren't paying attention..

With 2.1 and the nerf to WW and Refreshing Shadows I'm at *only* at 2440 Stamina regen even after switching most of my magicka regen champion passives to Stamina regen. If I try to do any blocking/bashing it seems I run out of stamina instantly and I'm popping Tri-pots at every cooldown and keeping Relentless Focus active most of the time as well. It seems like the actual *cost* has increased on some abilities or something. And no before anyone asks, I'm not spamming dodge roll, I'm rarely dodge rolling now, mainly just stamina attack abilities, occasional vigor and some strategic blocks/bashes.

Is anyone else having similar issues with stamina management as a Stamina char or have I just trained myself to be stamina inefficient on live? I had originally hoped to run Sword and Board but if blocking anything means I'm going to constantly run out of stamina I'll probably have to try switching back to bow or running Dual Wield instead. Considering how focused I am on stamina regen this is surprising.

OGLezard · August 2015

I dont know about stamina, but as a magicka user I seem to be having some issues maintaining magicka >_>

Erock25 · August 2015

I only have around 1500 stam regen and I'm not noticing many issues with regen playing a stam sorc.

Ahzek · August 2015

As a fresh stam sorc on PTS I found to be fine with about 2.3k stam regen and not run into issues unless I am severly outmatched/missmanaging my resources.
I do not even use pots most of the time (since im a poop poor khajiit that aint got no money on live and i dont want to fall into bad habits i cant sustain) and i still find it possible to sustain myself rather easily. If i am in dire ineed ill just throw out some heavy attacks and be done with it.
This might sound obvious, but do you maybe dodge too much ? The new dodge debuff is indicated as green glow on your feet, for all that did not notice/ wonder what that was.
Edit: should have read more carefully ^^ dodging not an issue then.

Ahzek · August 2015

Also they at the very least increased the cost for rally. If you were using that a lot for healing it might explain acertain stamina shortage

Ezareth · August 2015

Ahzek wrote: »

Also they at the very least increased the cost for rally. If you were using that a lot for healing it might explain acertain stamina shortage

Yeah I saw the momentum increase but I figured since I'm barely dodgerolling in 2.1 where on live I'm almost never *not* dodge rolling the savings would more than make up for it. The only thing I can think of is possibly the cost of bash was increased or perhaps instead of right mouse button - left click to bash I should be doing left mouse button right click to bash (so as to avoid blocking and taking the stam-regen penalty.

I really think they need to change the way the blocking penalty is working right now. The idea is to counter the right mouse button monkeys, not make it so that someone trying to bash a player casting a spell is costing themselves the cost of bash plus an extremely expensive Stamina regen tick (in my cast sometimes that's over 3K).

I think they need to make the penalty kick in if someone is holding block for more than 2 seconds or something similar.

Dracane · August 2015

I only have 700 Magicka regen and 500 stam regen and never run out.
Maybe it's not always the regen, but your own combat behavior.

FENGRUSH · August 2015

In short - yes I experienced similar issues. I played on PTS once but used my live build just to see how it felt on resource management. It doesnt go quick, but it doesnt feel like its coming back at the same rate even though I was making the same choices with the same setup. Something costs more I feel like maybe CC breaks.

All in all, I crashed about 8x in 20mins and then I was done with PTS.

Ezareth · August 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

In short - yes I experienced similar issues. I played on PTS once but used my live build just to see how it felt on resource management. It doesnt go quick, but it doesnt feel like its coming back at the same rate even though I was making the same choices with the same setup. Something costs more I feel like maybe CC breaks.

All in all, I crashed about 8x in 20mins and then I was done with PTS.

Yeah that was my first day on PTS exactly.

CC breaks could be it as well. I'm breaking free on Virtually every cooldown.

It just seems crazy that I can solo an emperor on live with this build and no run out of resources yet on PTS I'm dry after 30-40 seconds of fighting. I'll just have to run a detail cost analysis. I was hoping someone else on PTS had already narrowed it down since I've only spent 2 days playing on it so far.

Also it should be noted that I test out the new *198* stamina cost reduction enchants and they are in fact providing ~225.5 stamina cost reduction (magicka cost reduction is the same as well). No surprise there, the old ones said 200 but provided ~211.5 or so.

FENGRUSH · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

In short - yes I experienced similar issues. I played on PTS once but used my live build just to see how it felt on resource management. It doesnt go quick, but it doesnt feel like its coming back at the same rate even though I was making the same choices with the same setup. Something costs more I feel like maybe CC breaks.

All in all, I crashed about 8x in 20mins and then I was done with PTS.

Yeah that was my first day on PTS exactly.

CC breaks could be it as well. I'm breaking free on Virtually every cooldown.

It just seems crazy that I can solo an emperor on live with this build and no run out of resources yet on PTS I'm dry after 30-40 seconds of fighting. I'll just have to run a detail cost analysis. I was hoping someone else on PTS had already narrowed it down since I've only spent 2 days playing on it so far.

Also it should be noted that I test out the new *198* stamina cost reduction enchants and they are in fact providing ~225.5 stamina cost reduction (magicka cost reduction is the same as well). No surprise there, the old ones said 200 but provided ~211.5 or so.

I was going to but the crashes drove me nuts. Half of those crashes are logging in from crashes to click away UI problems and crashing right away.

What a mess!

Master_Kas · August 2015

Yes, compared to live .

Sitting on 2.4k stam regen in PTS, with template char and gear (except 3 air pieces I farmed in a dungeon)

With my normal gear I think I'll be able to push it to 2.6k atleast up to 2.7k will see if it makes any diffrence.

7 dodgerolls and my stam bar is depleted, that is without using any blocking/ccbreaking/attacking.

No more infinite rolling

EDIT: Cloak also fails alot on PTS. Luckily I didn't expect anything less this time either, just that with so few rolls and easily ruined cloak, things will get alot tougher for stamblades (and other stam builds ofc) with this new update. Buut I'll manage, somehow xD

Ezareth · August 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

In short - yes I experienced similar issues. I played on PTS once but used my live build just to see how it felt on resource management. It doesnt go quick, but it doesnt feel like its coming back at the same rate even though I was making the same choices with the same setup. Something costs more I feel like maybe CC breaks.

All in all, I crashed about 8x in 20mins and then I was done with PTS.

Yeah that was my first day on PTS exactly.

CC breaks could be it as well. I'm breaking free on Virtually every cooldown.

It just seems crazy that I can solo an emperor on live with this build and no run out of resources yet on PTS I'm dry after 30-40 seconds of fighting. I'll just have to run a detail cost analysis. I was hoping someone else on PTS had already narrowed it down since I've only spent 2 days playing on it so far.

Also it should be noted that I test out the new *198* stamina cost reduction enchants and they are in fact providing ~225.5 stamina cost reduction (magicka cost reduction is the same as well). No surprise there, the old ones said 200 but provided ~211.5 or so.

I was going to but the crashes drove me nuts. Half of those crashes are logging in from crashes to click away UI problems and crashing right away.

What a mess!

Yeah the first day I logged in I had that. 5 crashes in a row, couldn't even log back into IC.

Last night though I didn't crash once in about an hour and a half. The only addon I'm currently running is Foundry.

Ezareth · August 2015

Master_Kas wrote: »

Yes, compared to live .

Sitting on 2.4k stam regen in PTS, with template char and gear (except 3 air pieces I farmed in a dungeon)

With my normal gear I think I'll be able to push it to 2.6k atleast up to 2.7k will see if it makes any diffrence.

7 dodgerolls and my stam bar is depleted, that is without using any blocking/ccbreaking/attacking.

No more infinite rolling

Yeah damage is so low now that dodge rolling /blocking almost doesn't seem worth it. It's almost more stamina efficient to just outheal the damage instead of actively avoiding/mitigating it and if that is the case that is pretty damn boring.

I don't think anyone has really considered this but the cost of block remains the same as does the cost of dodge roll yet the damage they avoid is effectively reduced by ~37.5%.

Glory · August 2015

On a blocking build, I'm only running out of stamina to numerous enemies or significant CC breaking (I'm even considering running the immovable morph).

Stamina build, I actually have started speccing into more damage since my sustain was so high. The only time I ran out was when I started roll dodging too much.

It does feel like CC break is brutal on stamina management though.

Master_Kas · August 2015

Yeah damage is so low now that dodge rolling /blocking almost doesn't seem worth it. It's almost more stamina efficient to just outheal the damage instead of actively avoiding/mitigating it and if that is the case that is pretty damn boring.

I don't think anyone has really considered this but the cost of block remains the same as does the cost of dodge roll yet the damage they avoid is effectively reduced by ~37.5%.

Need to do alot more testing tough, had alot of crashes yesterday and today so I've gave up for now .

Another thing I've noticed is that when you do get on low health, vigor + rally together seem to heal terrible. Like its very hard to get ur health back up. I think its time to ditch full stam regen and put alot more into mana regen and maybe even use a resto staff even as stam build. (To regain magicka, for cloaks/teleport shade or whatever utility ones stambuild uses)

TBois · August 2015

I've felt fine with my stam regen and even switched to food, before 2.6k now at 1.7k stam regen, but I have changed some things around to help with sustain, on my solo build i switched to DW (SnB not really necessary for me anymore after block nerf) and just use shuffle and let what hits me hit me, only dodging or blocking when I see high burst or CC coming my way. I'm trying whirling blades, which also grants 20% stam regen) instead of caltrops to proc ravager since steel tornado's radius is too large to proc it. I'm also trying out the new Dark Deal. So that is also a factor as I throw it in here and there and spam it if I'm getting close to running out.

Joy_Division · August 2015

Getting a lot of conflicting feedback. Some guild members told me that perma-blocking is *not* gone provided one spec for it. We will see about that.

My instinct tells me that you are so used to intensive stamina usage and not running out is why you are all of a sudden feeling a pinch. 600 regen is not insignificant and if your strategic block/bash just happen to coincide with the moment a tick happened, that will make a difference. That being said, I am wondering if bash and CC breaks cut stamina usage inadvertently since they are built off the block mechanic.

I still would have preferred a more scaling penalty that actually punished people who taped down their right mouse button. Such as stam regen begins at 50% while holding block and reduces 25% every second or so that you hold down block.

Ezareth · August 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Getting a lot of conflicting feedback. Some guild members told me that perma-blocking is *not* gone provided one spec for it. We will see about that.

My instinct tells me that you are so used to intensive stamina usage and not running out is why you are all of a sudden feeling a pinch. 600 regen is not insignificant and if your strategic block/bash just happen to coincide with the moment a tick happened, that will make a difference. That being said, I am wondering if bash and CC breaks cut stamina usage inadvertently since they are built off the block mechanic.

I still would have preferred a more scaling penalty that actually punished people who taped down their right mouse button. Such as stam regen begins at 50% while holding block and reduces 25% every second or so that you hold down block.

Yes I think something like that or something else to prevent the never release right mouse button behavior would be preferrable. I think it is stupid that it is (potentially) possible for a bash or even a break free to cost you a stamina regen-tick.

After least there needs to be an activation component. Like a 1-2 second delay before the stamina regen cut to zero kicks in. I don't think anyone would really complain if all the permablockers had to release block every 1-2 seconds to keep regen up. Would help on the issues people were having on the PvP side of things at well.

With the current implementation of block it is possible that a single block could end up costing you 1-4K stamina which is lame.

Alcast · August 2015

I noticed a lot more ppl had issues with Stamina due to them not CCbreaking/rolling out of my jabs

I like that, finally i can HIT smth with that skill, when it hits, it means ertain death to enemies

Erock25 · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Also they at the very least increased the cost for rally. If you were using that a lot for healing it might explain acertain stamina shortage

Yeah I saw the momentum increase but I figured since I'm barely dodgerolling in 2.1 where on live I'm almost never *not* dodge rolling the savings would more than make up for it. The only thing I can think of is possibly the cost of bash was increased or perhaps instead of right mouse button - left click to bash I should be doing left mouse button right click to bash (so as to avoid blocking and taking the stam-regen penalty.

I really think they need to change the way the blocking penalty is working right now. The idea is to counter the right mouse button monkeys, not make it so that someone trying to bash a player casting a spell is costing themselves the cost of bash plus an extremely expensive Stamina regen tick (in my cast sometimes that's over 3K).

I think they need to make the penalty kick in if someone is holding block for more than 2 seconds or something similar.

Just switch bash to a different key. The left+right click mechanic is clunky anyways. My bash/break free has been the V key since early access.

Ezareth · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

I noticed a lot more ppl had issues with Stamina due to them not CCbreaking/rolling out of my jabs I like that, finally i can HIT smth with that skill, when it hits, it means ertain death to enemies

I think Jabs is another issue altogether. Me and the person I was playing with were both unable to break out of jabs on separate occasions.

Ezareth · August 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Also they at the very least increased the cost for rally. If you were using that a lot for healing it might explain acertain stamina shortage

Yeah I saw the momentum increase but I figured since I'm barely dodgerolling in 2.1 where on live I'm almost never *not* dodge rolling the savings would more than make up for it. The only thing I can think of is possibly the cost of bash was increased or perhaps instead of right mouse button - left click to bash I should be doing left mouse button right click to bash (so as to avoid blocking and taking the stam-regen penalty.

I really think they need to change the way the blocking penalty is working right now. The idea is to counter the right mouse button monkeys, not make it so that someone trying to bash a player casting a spell is costing themselves the cost of bash plus an extremely expensive Stamina regen tick (in my cast sometimes that's over 3K).

I think they need to make the penalty kick in if someone is holding block for more than 2 seconds or something similar.

Just switch bash to a different key. The left+right click mechanic is clunky anyways. My bash/break free has been the V key since early access.

I've thought of that as well and I may end up going that route but that doesn't solve the issue that the default UI presents for 99% of other players.

Tankqull · August 2015

have had the same problem while animation canceling via blocking, switched my blocking mousebutton with the direct bash (not the right+left button combo) button and now have way better stam management again. it seems the block even though not "activated" by an oponent attack cancels stamina reg ticks.

Ezareth · August 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

have had the same problem while animation canceling via blocking, switched my blocking mousebutton with the direct bash (not the right+left button combo) button and now have way better stam management again. it seems the block even though not "activated" by an oponent attack cancels stamina reg ticks.

Yeah that's what I was afraid of. I don't understand how they think this is OK.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any way you guys can at very least implement a 1 sec delay on the stam regen being set to zero to avoid this issue? It's really impacting the combat for anyone who is utilizing bashing/reactionary blocking unless they feel like remapping their keybindings.

Kas · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Also they at the very least increased the cost for rally. If you were using that a lot for healing it might explain acertain stamina shortage

Yeah I saw the momentum increase but I figured since I'm barely dodgerolling in 2.1 where on live I'm almost never *not* dodge rolling the savings would more than make up for it. The only thing I can think of is possibly the cost of bash was increased or perhaps instead of right mouse button - left click to bash I should be doing left mouse button right click to bash (so as to avoid blocking and taking the stam-regen penalty.

I really think they need to change the way the blocking penalty is working right now. The idea is to counter the right mouse button monkeys, not make it so that someone trying to bash a player casting a spell is costing themselves the cost of bash plus an extremely expensive Stamina regen tick (in my cast sometimes that's over 3K).

I think they need to make the penalty kick in if someone is holding block for more than 2 seconds or something similar.

imho assigning bash to a different key is a very good idea , anyway. much easier to bash-cancle and slightly fast for break free

Alcast · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I noticed a lot more ppl had issues with Stamina due to them not CCbreaking/rolling out of my jabs I like that, finally i can HIT smth with that skill, when it hits, it means ertain death to enemies

I think Jabs is another issue altogether. Me and the person I was playing with were both unable to break out of jabs on separate occasions.

Unable to break out bc you did not have resources or could you simply not CC break it? On PTS enemy jabs i encountered I did not notice such a problem as long as I had Stamina.

But usually my Javeling>Critrush>Jabs is a deadly combo if they cant break free asap. And they have to CC break from javeling AND dodgeroll out of jabs, so for Magicka builds bb stamina.

Ezareth · August 2015

Kas wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Also they at the very least increased the cost for rally. If you were using that a lot for healing it might explain acertain stamina shortage

Yeah I saw the momentum increase but I figured since I'm barely dodgerolling in 2.1 where on live I'm almost never *not* dodge rolling the savings would more than make up for it. The only thing I can think of is possibly the cost of bash was increased or perhaps instead of right mouse button - left click to bash I should be doing left mouse button right click to bash (so as to avoid blocking and taking the stam-regen penalty.

I really think they need to change the way the blocking penalty is working right now. The idea is to counter the right mouse button monkeys, not make it so that someone trying to bash a player casting a spell is costing themselves the cost of bash plus an extremely expensive Stamina regen tick (in my cast sometimes that's over 3K).

I think they need to make the penalty kick in if someone is holding block for more than 2 seconds or something similar.

imho assigning bash to a different key is a very good idea , anyway. much easier to bash-cancle and slightly fast for break free

Yeah it's been on my list of things to do for a long time, I've just not had much of an issue with the old setup.

Hell my weapon swap is set to my F1 key and I have no issues with that despite it being what most people would consider out of the way haha.

Ezareth · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I noticed a lot more ppl had issues with Stamina due to them not CCbreaking/rolling out of my jabs I like that, finally i can HIT smth with that skill, when it hits, it means ertain death to enemies

I think Jabs is another issue altogether. Me and the person I was playing with were both unable to break out of jabs on separate occasions.

Unable to break out bc you did not have resources or could you simply not CC break it? On PTS enemy jabs i encountered I did not notice such a problem as long as I had Stamina.

But usually my Javeling>Critrush>Jabs is a deadly combo if they cant break free asap. And they have to CC break from javeling AND dodgeroll out of jabs, so for Magicka builds bb stamina.

Unable to break free with full stam, which is something I haven't experienced with jabs in a long while. The templar just kept spamming them from full health to dead.

Could have just been the old can't break free bug that happens with all CC couple with the increased presence of jabs on 2.1.

Tankqull · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Also they at the very least increased the cost for rally. If you were using that a lot for healing it might explain acertain stamina shortage

Yeah I saw the momentum increase but I figured since I'm barely dodgerolling in 2.1 where on live I'm almost never *not* dodge rolling the savings would more than make up for it. The only thing I can think of is possibly the cost of bash was increased or perhaps instead of right mouse button - left click to bash I should be doing left mouse button right click to bash (so as to avoid blocking and taking the stam-regen penalty.

I really think they need to change the way the blocking penalty is working right now. The idea is to counter the right mouse button monkeys, not make it so that someone trying to bash a player casting a spell is costing themselves the cost of bash plus an extremely expensive Stamina regen tick (in my cast sometimes that's over 3K).

I think they need to make the penalty kick in if someone is holding block for more than 2 seconds or something similar.

imho assigning bash to a different key is a very good idea , anyway. much easier to bash-cancle and slightly fast for break free

Yeah it's been on my list of things to do for a long time, I've just not had much of an issue with the old setup.

Hell my weapon swap is set to my F1 key and I have no issues with that despite it being what most people would consider out of the way haha.

as i´m having rather big hands (my ex referred to them as shovels^^) im having a rather weired keyboradlayout aswell - and from DAOC i was used to have 40+ keys keybinds with multiple key modifiers to keep them in range so im used in utilizing the F keys aswell

Alcast · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I noticed a lot more ppl had issues with Stamina due to them not CCbreaking/rolling out of my jabs I like that, finally i can HIT smth with that skill, when it hits, it means ertain death to enemies

I think Jabs is another issue altogether. Me and the person I was playing with were both unable to break out of jabs on separate occasions.

Unable to break out bc you did not have resources or could you simply not CC break it? On PTS enemy jabs i encountered I did not notice such a problem as long as I had Stamina.

But usually my Javeling>Critrush>Jabs is a deadly combo if they cant break free asap. And they have to CC break from javeling AND dodgeroll out of jabs, so for Magicka builds bb stamina.

Unable to break free with full stam, which is something I haven't experienced with jabs in a long while. The templar just kept spamming them from full health to dead.

Could have just been the old can't break free bug that happens with all CC couple with the increased presence of jabs on 2.1.

Ye that f...Unbreakable CC bug...i hate it...

even more annoying is the endless root on the ground where you cant move anymore....

Ezareth · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I noticed a lot more ppl had issues with Stamina due to them not CCbreaking/rolling out of my jabs I like that, finally i can HIT smth with that skill, when it hits, it means ertain death to enemies

I think Jabs is another issue altogether. Me and the person I was playing with were both unable to break out of jabs on separate occasions.

Unable to break out bc you did not have resources or could you simply not CC break it? On PTS enemy jabs i encountered I did not notice such a problem as long as I had Stamina.

But usually my Javeling>Critrush>Jabs is a deadly combo if they cant break free asap. And they have to CC break from javeling AND dodgeroll out of jabs, so for Magicka builds bb stamina.

Unable to break free with full stam, which is something I haven't experienced with jabs in a long while. The templar just kept spamming them from full health to dead.

Could have just been the old can't break free bug that happens with all CC couple with the increased presence of jabs on 2.1.

Ye that f...Unbreakable CC bug...i hate it...

even more annoying is the endless root on the ground where you cant move anymore....

That supposedly was fixed in 2.1 (haven't had to do the old Panther rotation trick midcombat yet...I was actually getting pretty practiced at that). Or are you talking about another new bug?