So I Guess The Only Way For DC on Haderus To Win Is To Cheat

Bezilar · August 2015

LOL, this again. Make scroll carriers on same alliance killable but display yellow maybe?

Joy_Division · August 2015

yodased wrote: »

This is moot.The only way that they could do this after 2.1 goes live is to spend 300k AP and switch two characters around.

They will not be able to port to a player in cyrodil and have characters from different alliances in the same campaign again. Never again I say , never again.

Wrong.

yodased · August 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

This is moot.The only way that they could do this after 2.1 goes live is to spend 300k AP and switch two characters around.

They will not be able to port to a player in cyrodil and have characters from different alliances in the same campaign again. Never again I say , never again.

Wrong.

No it's not. Its exactly like this on the Ps4 and in the patch notes for the next patch so uhhhh bye

Publius_Scipio · August 2015

This whole thread made me laugh. Especially the part where I realized Vis went to law school and specialized in MMO games.

If only I could hit the agree or awesome buttons on my own posts.

Takllin · August 2015

yodased wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

This is moot.The only way that they could do this after 2.1 goes live is to spend 300k AP and switch two characters around.

They will not be able to port to a player in cyrodil and have characters from different alliances in the same campaign again. Never again I say , never again.

Wrong.

No it's not. Its exactly like this on the Ps4 and in the patch notes for the next patch so uhhhh bye

Group queue.

You're welcome.

Reverb · August 2015

yodased wrote: »

This is moot.The only way that they could do this after 2.1 goes live is to spend 300k AP and switch two characters around.

They will not be able to port to a player in cyrodil and have characters from different alliances in the same campaign again. Never again I say , never again.

Do you have any idea how much AP avid AVA'ers have? If somebody is really dedicated to being a ****head, 300k is a very small price to pay. If I had 300k less AP the next time I logged in, I doubt I would even notice. This will be more true in 2.1 where the top-end sets are only bought with tv stones, making AP nearly useless (except for siege).

Sadly, griefers are gonna grief, 300k is in no way cost prohibitive, and the OPs point is not moot.

FENGRUSH · August 2015

Sounds like an AD player making an offering to The Lord FENGRUSH for mercy upon his faction. Nothing wrong with this.

Vis · August 2015

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

If only I could hit the agree or awesome buttons on my own posts.

And yes, anyone agreeing with me cannot possibly exist because you're the only one people can ever agree with. Narcissist much?

Ezareth · August 2015

MAOofDC wrote: »

So Today 8/2/15 at about 8pm EDT AD was retaking Alessia back from DC. Some guy who wasn't in any of the AD groups rushed in and grabbed the scroll just before it was flipped and proceeded to run it towards the blues. We followed asking him in zone chat and tells what the hell he was doing. He didn't respond to us, and the blues didn't attack him but did everything they could to slow us down. When he was finally too far away from us to pick it back up he stopped and they killed him and got the scroll. Only after I told him that I reported him did he respond by calling me names and admitted that indeed he was a DC player running an alt with the express purpose of helping DC recapture the scroll. He even bragged about being the best DC player on the NA server. One has to wonder how good someone really is if they need to cheat to achieve their goals. He then proceeded to tell me that it happens all the time and there wasn't a damn thing we could do about it but only after he heaped some more abusive language on me.

People who do this *** need to be banned!!! Griefing is not allowed according to the rule laid out by ZoS. But since ZoS couldn't be damned according to him he will escape punishment. But I'm sure is I named and shamed him on the forums my ass would feel the ban hammer double quick.

That's OK the Current AD Empress of Chillrend took the scrolls from our gates without taking the keeps first on a map that barring our last two keeps was entirely yellow. I haven't seen most of the top 20 DC back on the campaign since then and the campaign has been pretty much dead short of the occasional off-campaign guild zoning in to farm the zergbads.

There are exploiting/cheating garbage-cans in every campaign on every faction.

Yonkit · August 2015

Isn't this coming from the faction that stacked 100+ people in Alessia and spammed meteors repeatedly to protect their last emp keep for days when tripwyre was emp? Now they're complaining about griefing? How cute.

I'm as nonplussed by nefarious scroll captures as the next, but yellow on haderus have been about as anti-competitive as possible for the past few weeks, so any protestations from them should simply fall on deaf ears as they nightcap the server once again.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Naming & Shaming]

FENGRUSH · August 2015

Yonkit wrote: »

Isn't this coming from the faction that stacked 100+ people in Alessia and spammed meteors repeatedly to protect their last emp keep for days when tripwyre was emp? Now they're complaining about griefing? How cute.

I'm as nonplussed by nefarious scroll captures as the next, but yellow on haderus have been about as anti-competitive as possible for the past few weeks, so any protestations from them should simply fall on deaf ears as they nightcap the server once again.

Yonkit of the order laying it down!

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

mrskinskull · August 2015

MAOofDC wrote: »

So Today 8/2/15 at about 8pm EDT AD was retaking Alessia back from DC. Some guy who wasn't in any of the AD groups rushed in and grabbed the scroll just before it was flipped and proceeded to run it towards the blues. We followed asking him in zone chat and tells what the hell he was doing. He didn't respond to us, and the blues didn't attack him but did everything they could to slow us down. When he was finally too far away from us to pick it back up he stopped and they killed him and got the scroll. Only after I told him that I reported him did he respond by calling me names and admitted that indeed he was a DC player running an alt with the express purpose of helping DC recapture the scroll. He even bragged about being the best DC player on the NA server. One has to wonder how good someone really is if they need to cheat to achieve their goals. He then proceeded to tell me that it happens all the time and there wasn't a damn thing we could do about it but only after he heaped some more abusive language on me.

People who do this *** need to be banned!!! Griefing is not allowed according to the rule laid out by ZoS. But since ZoS couldn't be damned according to him he will escape punishment. But I'm sure is I named and shamed him on the forums my ass would feel the ban hammer double quick.

Omg.

Your team must be really owning those guys for them to need to do this.

Congrats.

I take stuff like that as a compliment.

PS
What is to stop opposition friendly alts from flooding the enemy team?

The alts could do nothing or just quest as their home team swept across the land scape.

The alts would be preventing the normal home team from fairly defending themselves.

Last night I came across a very obnoxious player on chillrend.

He was obviously trolling and not really trying to play.

I am very sure that this was a false flag guy, just being obnoxious into area chat.

And before you say oh that's just area chat, no, I talked with him a bit because at first he just seemed uhm'. Ahh, slow.

After a bit, he tried to say he was just trolling for a YouTube clip.

What should be done regarding this behavior?

CitraBenzoet_ESO · August 2015

mrskinskull wrote: »

MAOofDC wrote: »

So Today 8/2/15 at about 8pm EDT AD was retaking Alessia back from DC. Some guy who wasn't in any of the AD groups rushed in and grabbed the scroll just before it was flipped and proceeded to run it towards the blues. We followed asking him in zone chat and tells what the hell he was doing. He didn't respond to us, and the blues didn't attack him but did everything they could to slow us down. When he was finally too far away from us to pick it back up he stopped and they killed him and got the scroll. Only after I told him that I reported him did he respond by calling me names and admitted that indeed he was a DC player running an alt with the express purpose of helping DC recapture the scroll. He even bragged about being the best DC player on the NA server. One has to wonder how good someone really is if they need to cheat to achieve their goals. He then proceeded to tell me that it happens all the time and there wasn't a damn thing we could do about it but only after he heaped some more abusive language on me.

People who do this *** need to be banned!!! Griefing is not allowed according to the rule laid out by ZoS. But since ZoS couldn't be damned according to him he will escape punishment. But I'm sure is I named and shamed him on the forums my ass would feel the ban hammer double quick.

Omg.

Your team must be really owning those guys for them to need to do this.

Congrats.

I take stuff like that as a compliment.

PS
What is to stop opposition friendly alts from flooding the enemy team?

The alts could do nothing or just quest as their home team swept across the land scape.

The alts would be preventing the normal home team from fairly defending themselves.

Last night I came across a very obnoxious player on chillrend.

He was obviously trolling and not really trying to play.

I am very sure that this was a false flag guy, just being obnoxious into area chat.

And before you say oh that's just area chat, no, I talked with him a bit because at first he just seemed uhm'. Ahh, slow.

After a bit, he tried to say he was just trolling for a YouTube clip.

What should be done regarding this behavior?

The game should be closed and nobody allowed to play. The possibility of people doing things others might not like is far too high.

In order for this game to continue everyone must hire a lawyer and a religious figure, sign a binding contract that they will never do any action in the game that may confuse, or hurt anothers feelings or momentary progress, and then swear upon some holy artifact that if they break said contract their higher power may smite them (or punish how they see fit) immediately. Followed by ZoS banning them forever from the internet.

The End.

Yonkit · August 2015

I believe the point I"m making is that someone with a playstyle that is geared towards griefing playing on a faction that gears itself towards griefing complaining about other players griefing is... cute. No one thinks you're magically immunue to lag, but when it lags, you don't see me run out and spamming ambush/soul harvest with the hopes that lag will be in my favor and i might sneak a few kills in because everyone else has already stopped attacking/defending in order to let the server catch up a bit. I could do that. I could easily just sneak around in lag and kill everyone with less than 24k HP with wrecking blows, but it's both anti-competitive and continues to make the game worse in lag situations. Remove the lag and gankers can gank all day long. I remember the days when I would go around targeting crystallized in the middle of his big group and grin a silly grin when I two-shot him. It's fun and no one is complaining about that. In fact... I'm not complaining at all. I just find your obtuseness in this situation... cute.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Vis · August 2015

Yonkit wrote: »

I believe the point I"m making is that someone with a playstyle that is geared towards griefing playing on a faction that gears itself towards griefing complaining about other players griefing is... cute.

Your definition of griefing is off. Killing enemy players is not griefing, it's pvp. Otherwise I could argue any person who runs with a zerg is a griefer. Exploiting, cheating, and/or sabotaging your own team are forms of griefing. And just because you think the other team does it too, does not make it any more justified. I would not stand someone from AD doing the same. If I saw a DC player running a scroll back to AD, I would kill him and corpse jump until more DC came.

And to clear things up, the lag hurts me more than any zerg member. My NB is a glass cannon who depends on buffs, procs, and skills going off in very fast succession. All of which become near impossible in heavy lag. I have died more to lag preventing me from re-entering stealth after a failed teleport strike than any kills I have gotten. Those who die to me in lag would have died to me even faster without that lag. But again, whatever conspiracy works for you.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Joy_Division · August 2015

yodased wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

This is moot.The only way that they could do this after 2.1 goes live is to spend 300k AP and switch two characters around.

They will not be able to port to a player in cyrodil and have characters from different alliances in the same campaign again. Never again I say , never again.

Wrong.

No it's not. Its exactly like this on the Ps4 and in the patch notes for the next patch so uhhhh bye

Yes it is. Player has three characters.

Andy plays for AD and homes on Haderus
Eddie plays for EP and homes on Thorn
Donnie is player's "main" plays for DC and homes on Chill because his guild and guests on Azura's because his other friends home there.

Next campaign cycle, Donnie's guild gets sick of the lag and switches to Thorn.

What does Donnie do? Can;t switch with his guild because of the current restrictions. Can't drop campaigns and then reassign them because that option is unavailable. Since he can't actually play with his guild, he logs onto Eddie and does precisely what the OP described.

bosmern_ESO · August 2015

DC is bad lol

Ghostbane · August 2015

I thought mentioning the ToS was against the ToS?

Lexxypwns · August 2015

Traitors should be dealt with within the faction.

yodased · August 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

This is moot.The only way that they could do this after 2.1 goes live is to spend 300k AP and switch two characters around.

They will not be able to port to a player in cyrodil and have characters from different alliances in the same campaign again. Never again I say , never again.

Wrong.

No it's not. Its exactly like this on the Ps4 and in the patch notes for the next patch so uhhhh bye

Yes it is. Player has three characters.

Andy plays for AD and homes on Haderus
Eddie plays for EP and homes on Thorn
Donnie is player's "main" plays for DC and homes on Chill because his guild and guests on Azura's because his other friends home there.

Next campaign cycle, Donnie's guild gets sick of the lag and switches to Thorn.

What does Donnie do? Can;t switch with his guild because of the current restrictions. Can't drop campaigns and then reassign them because that option is unavailable. Since he can't actually play with his guild, he logs onto Eddie and does precisely what the OP described.

This is completely not the same thing. That means that the player will have to take an alt that they have and only play that alt as a spy for their "home" alliance at all times.

How often is this going to happen? He can't switch, won't get AP for his alt, how long will they stay in a campaign to not get champion points, not actually PvP, just troll the enemy?

That is a LOT different than being able to login to an alt and port to the same campaign your main was just in to troll the enemy.

The first way takes quite a lot of dedication and will hamstring the player into not progressing. The second way takes 30 seconds and allows this type of troll to be immediate.

MrGhosty · August 2015

I think what you maybe should be trying OP is to have TOS amended to include your very specific example.

You describe the action as griefing but others may not share your definition. Seeing as people have been salty about this exact behavior since early in the game's life span, I'm willing to wager ZOS doesn't consider it a violation. I've certainly never seen a mod say one way or another. I am sure they file it under emergent gameplay.

Even with the new patch coming in August, I doubt the changes will really stop a player from doing this if they truly want to. Your best bet to counter this is pass along to other guilds of your faction the name of that AD player and "burn their cover" as it were. The alternative is to just accept that this happens sometimes and while they are most certainly without honor, fools will be fools. The transient nature of this style of PvP means their actions will be pointless in short order.

Joy_Division · August 2015

yodased wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

This is moot.The only way that they could do this after 2.1 goes live is to spend 300k AP and switch two characters around.

They will not be able to port to a player in cyrodil and have characters from different alliances in the same campaign again. Never again I say , never again.

Wrong.

No it's not. Its exactly like this on the Ps4 and in the patch notes for the next patch so uhhhh bye

Yes it is. Player has three characters.

Andy plays for AD and homes on Haderus
Eddie plays for EP and homes on Thorn
Donnie is player's "main" plays for DC and homes on Chill because his guild and guests on Azura's because his other friends home there.

Next campaign cycle, Donnie's guild gets sick of the lag and switches to Thorn.

What does Donnie do? Can;t switch with his guild because of the current restrictions. Can't drop campaigns and then reassign them because that option is unavailable. Since he can't actually play with his guild, he logs onto Eddie and does precisely what the OP described.

This is completely not the same thing. That means that the player will have to take an alt that they have and only play that alt as a spy for their "home" alliance at all times.

How often is this going to happen? He can't switch, won't get AP for his alt, how long will they stay in a campaign to not get champion points, not actually PvP, just troll the enemy?

That is a LOT different than being able to login to an alt and port to the same campaign your main was just in to troll the enemy.

The first way takes quite a lot of dedication and will hamstring the player into not progressing. The second way takes 30 seconds and allows this type of troll to be immediate.

So you are wrong and won't admit it?

You seem to be under the impression that everyone has one home alliance that are loyal too and any other faction alts are level 10 recruits made with the sole purpose of griefing the other two factions.

Wrong, try again.

I have an EP alt Alliance rank 24, a DC alt Alliance rank 23, a AD alt Alliance rank 22. Was not inconvenienced or hamstrung one bit leveling them up.

I have these toons in different alliances mostly because the game's lag, server instability, shifting population imbalance makes it difficult to find good fights, what I care about much more than Faction loyalty or campaign rewards. I don't grief or spy. Not because I have high level characters that I care about, but because I think it's a crap thing to do.

As this thread has shown, not everybody has the same feelings regarding good sportsmanship/competition. There are a lot of people out there with high level crossed faction alts who are about to lose the ability to actually play these characters legitimately with their guild-mates and friends, which invites the sort of unlawful play the measures are intended to prevent.

yodased · August 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

words

So you are saying that you don't have alliance preference right? You are saying that you have no reason to specifically get on one of your "high level alts" to mess with you "main"

The issue here is you don't have a "main" or "alts" you have several characters in different alliances.

This goes against the concept of the O.P. where one person has a main in one alliance and alts in others made specifically to help that main.

When you leveled to ava 24 you were pvping for that faction, doing everything that entails. Defending keeps, taking scrolls etc.

This is not the player behavior being described here.

Joy_Division · August 2015

yodased wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

words

So you are saying that you don't have alliance preference right? You are saying that you have no reason to specifically get on one of your "high level alts" to mess with you "main"

The issue here is you don't have a "main" or "alts" you have several characters in different alliances.

This goes against the concept of the O.P. where one person has a main in one alliance and alts in others made specifically to help that main.

When you leveled to ava 24 you were pvping for that faction, doing everything that entails. Defending keeps, taking scrolls etc.

This is not the player behavior being described here.

Because I am a high minded individual

Not everyone is such.

There are other loyalties to consider aside from faction-based, such as guilds and friends. Then there are adversarial relationships to consider. Someone in a similar position as me could log onto an alt with the express purpose of "getting even" or some other rationalization if we consider the OP's scenario. In fact, as it is likely that she could not play legitimately on an AD character in that campaign, griefing might be the *only* avenue available if people they like got screwed. Then there are people who just think its fun to do this sort of thing and laugh about it. The proposed campaign restrictions do nothing to preempt such actions and in a paradoxical way foster them as the legitimate/good sportsmanship route is no longer available.

What the restrictions will help deter is the level 10 recruit "spy." Sort of. Maybe. I've seen enough troll scroll runs the sort the OP describes to say that the greifer is not a level 10 recruit, rather has a high level build with the skills and passives necessary to succeed and survive getting to and then back to where it is they want to go. If the level 10 recruit spy is actually a competent player ... wouldn't they be better off running with their guild / faction? They are 90% of times at best conveyors of dubious or obvious information. We can all sit here and applaud ZoS for instituting measures to stop the feared level 10 recruit spy who was utterly irrelevant to how campaigns in Cyrodiil play out. But lets not pretend that for a moment the sort of griefing the OP describes is not possible or will not happen.

Lucky28 · August 2015

CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »

Yeah. Like the time DC brought AD a scroll as a kind gesture and also so EP would maybe not focus us all night. Which then turned into EP and AD dbl teaming us super hard and us losing everything. So yeah, interesting.

Dont worry AD. Your scrolls will be home soon enough when you Pvdoor haderus after NA is asleep. Which is fine. We want you to take stuff back so tomorrow night we have something to do.

When does that happen???. Seriously i'd like to know, i don't think i've ever seen EP and anyone working together, normally it's EP Vs everyone while Ad and Dc work together.

CitraBenzoet_ESO · August 2015

Lucky28 wrote: »

CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »

Yeah. Like the time DC brought AD a scroll as a kind gesture and also so EP would maybe not focus us all night. Which then turned into EP and AD dbl teaming us super hard and us losing everything. So yeah, interesting.

Dont worry AD. Your scrolls will be home soon enough when you Pvdoor haderus after NA is asleep. Which is fine. We want you to take stuff back so tomorrow night we have something to do.

When does that happen???. Seriously i'd like to know, i don't think i've ever seen EP and anyone working together, normally it's EP Vs everyone while Ad and Dc work together.

The bringing of a scroll to another faction as an act of kindness has not happened in quite some time. And was a rare thing.

The act of team orange/purple/green also rare but happends. Like last night in NA Haderus Faregyl farm yellow and reds fighting blue but not eachother. It was some fun fighting. Red sure was running routes around that farm haha yellow less organized but didnt seem to be the reds target.

Cant say they were actually working together but it sure looked like they were avoiding hurting eachother heh

Jules · August 2015

Whoever did this is a slimeball.

Grampa_Smurf · August 2015

You guys remember at start the enemy had DKs on the other side of the keeps dragging the enemy over the walls......all fair in War.

What some call exploits are mostly just players thinking outside of the box.

Rust_in_Peace · August 2015

Vis wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

I believe the point I"m making is that someone with a playstyle that is geared towards griefing playing on a faction that gears itself towards griefing complaining about other players griefing is... cute.

Your definition of griefing is off. Killing enemy players is not griefing, it's pvp. Otherwise I could argue any person who runs with a zerg is a griefer. Exploiting, cheating, and/or sabotaging your own team are forms of griefing. And just because you think the other team does it too, does not make it any more justified. I would not stand someone from AD doing the same. If I saw a DC player running a scroll back to AD, I would kill him and corpse jump until more DC came.

And to clear things up, the lag hurts me more than any zerg member. My NB is a glass cannon who depends on buffs, procs, and skills going off in very fast succession. All of which become near impossible in heavy lag. I have died more to lag preventing me from re-entering stealth after a failed teleport strike than any kills I have gotten. Those who die to me in lag would have died to me even faster without that lag. But again, whatever conspiracy works for you.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

AD screamers gonna scream.

Xiphyla · August 2015

Just move on and play the game , it's not like Zenimax going to give a damn *** about stuffs anyway.