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[Videos] Sorcerer and other feedback

Zlater
Zlater
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Hey guys I spent a stack of time on the pts today trying a few different skills and doing a bunch of different things. Here is some early feedback on the changes we've seen in 1.7:

I put the old thread in a spoiler so the new part can be seen, I wanted to highlight this part because my old findings aren't considered important.
1.7.1
Good Stuff:
-The change to empowered ward is a welcome change, I personally see it being used still just about never, because temps are now even better healers; but for anyone wanting to play a sorc healer its quite nice as really no DPS should be using the 1.6 version.
-Dark Exchange had a change for the better, but still needs improvement. Dark exchange has a long and deadly animation now, it is important the the restore happens at the beginning of the animation, this way it can be utilized in a rotation with animation clipping. There has been a couple of times I've gone to use it and accidentally animation clipped it with no restore and have subsequently died.
-I didn't spend a lot of time with it, but I feel Encase feels just perfect now. I use this quite a bit for tanking on live.
-Energy Overload is sweet, finally I can actually see my magicka going up! I feel like this is going to be one of the next on the ZOS nerf hit list after after we've finished digging graves for bolt escape and hardened ward though. Don't make this change if your going to nerf if in 1.8! I cant express this enough.
-Daedric Prey morph is only useful for PvE, I don't know how better to say this, so I am just going to say it: I don't wanna use any stupid Pets! Stop trying to make me! There is only a minority that want to, though I do support them. Yeah I get someone wants to be a beast master or maybe they are just into those internet movies with beasts, unfortunately 95% of humanity isn't. If you like pets, that's cool, I like when someone plays with a restoring twilight, but its not why I chose a sorcerer.
-Critical strikes with pets, I actually think this should have been in all along, I'm glad you fixed this and thanks.
-Pets also take 50% less damage, a group of 4 can also each have 2/3 shield stacking pets each with damage reduction buffs. I haven't tried this and kinda want to, I wonder if they might actually be the next thing for the nerf hammer.?
-Mage's wrath - I feel like this is the "in light of the real harsh nerfs we're laying out for sorcs again" I get it but don't get it, of everything that might need a buff you chose this? Thanks I guess ^^

Here's a video of the new Dark Exchange in action:
https://youtu.be/h9gmFcDD3LM
I'm using Dark Deal to block-cast against this pack of trash. By wearing 3 reduce spell cost rings I can keep my stamina up with a very small magicka sacrifice. I really like using this now because it can even restore my health by a significant amount, but please make it heal at the start of the cast, not after the animation has finished.

The Neutral:
-The winged twilight does have access to a very rare buff that it can share with your entire group, I don't mind that you nerfed this a little bit.

The Bad:
->>>Bolt Escape<<<
When I first played the beta I distinctly remember a player using bolt esacpe in cyro like "horses are for newbs." Ever since then I decided to play a sorc and have loved it. Overall sorcerers are pretty useless for any of the major roles in ESO, but rather have taken on a fourth role, that of utility and support role. Whether it was negate, bolt escape, overload, restoring twilight or whatever, if there's a cool trick a class could bring to the table, it was often a sorc. But it wasn't restricted, seeing anyone doing something really cool and really creative made me fall in love with game. The first time I saw a DK takeflight to the top of a tower, man I almost wet my self, but you should have seen me drool, it was soooo COOL! Or when a healer used right of passage to get everyone across a stupidly aoe'd keep wall, or when a DK used chains on an immovable enemy to get himself to the top of a wall, or when my horse was slower than a sneaking nightblade vampire, or when a couple guys could stop a whole zerg at a stairwell just by using oil pots! This creative use of game stuff was what made me fall in love with it, I loved that I could be a bow using sorcerer in end game content or a nightblade had found a way to become one of the craziest tanks ever.

Some skills that we love are really strong, and they are meant to be like that! Why should all of the class skills be stuck in some sort of a messed up communist regime where every class is exactly the same, only differentiated by their visual effects? I'm glad that sorcs can't heal them selves like the other classes can, I'm glad that nightblades cant shield stack like the other classes can. I'm glad that templar's don't have access to any decent aoe cc abilities and I'm glad the DK's make the worst group healers. We chose the class for the cool things the class could do, not because of the visual effects. This inspired creativity and a sense of ownership. This all changed with 1.6, because softcaps weren't ideal for usage with champion points, ZOS removed them; but kept hardcaps for everything as they are the maximum you could possibly achieve in that skill line, so without limitations on stats or limitations on skills, things got crazy, right? The reply is to nerf or re-balance skills to make them all equal, but the issue is that the player base hates this! As a player I hold my skills closely and more personally than anything else about my build. The gear, the stats and the champion point selection are only there to compliment my skill choices, as 1.7 comes around the attitude change becomes more apparent, watch this video, it shows it very clearly.

https://youtu.be/agez9BaQddY
Pay attention to how the cost for a vr15 item piece is 13 mats and a vr16 is 130mats!!!!!! Or how the best equipment is locked behind the wall of the IC. This is the first time in the ESO history that skills' and game mechanics' (shield stacking) natural work around was a 5 piece armor set, not even the shrouded armor trick compares to this. A player doesn't need skill (cc's) anymore, they just need the right armor. Oh and what was that 2 piece glass cannon set that made me wanna puke? Also why does a purple item cost 10x more tel var stones than its blue replica?

Something I noticed in too is that a vr16 on the PTS the same as a VR14 in live. There is no VR16 coming in 1.7, its just a huge nerf to every veteran and an additional gear grind to get back to where you were as a VR14 in 1.6, check the stats on your stuff my friends.

Anyway back onto the Suicide bolt dilemna, I don't like to bring critism without a solution. My understanding is that nightblades are annoyed because they can't gank sorcs, and it so happens that Eric is a nightblade player. Here is my proposed solution. Bolt escape must remain as an escape tool! At the moment if you stop at one you are just setting yourself up for a stupid gap closer, CC and death combo. Ok I agree, ball of lightning was over powered, and how op, well I took it to the extreme to show you:

https://youtu.be/D3_eoMnaTqc
So I guess quite a bit, but keep in mind that's only after I took it to SO to try out solo, in normal gameplay its not so OP at all, just a bit annoying in PvP. Trust me, theres no other class that gets more annoyed by BoL than another sorcerer. I think if ZOS has fixed it to allow it to absorb projectiles that have already started casting or have been launched, it might be a bit better, but they ofc haven't done that, because that would mean a buff for a sorc :P My solution is to increase the jump distance of ball of lightning, streak is still usable for its stun, but BoL is useless atm. If you take it to a 28m warp that is enough to get away from most casters and still not have to spam it. You can also remove the ball completely so you don't have to fix it, which wasn't going to happen anyway. It would be like one morph is good for dealing with melee and the other for ranged.

-I've noticed the magicka management has become quite a bit trickier if it wasn't tricky enough, maybe its just my sets but I would also like to request that you bring the magicka regen of the storm calling passive capacitor to be more in line with the refreshing shadows passive, perhaps with all these upcoming shield nerfs allow it to give you max magicka aswell? I believe passives should be very different but hold the same weight between the classes.

-Imperial city has bought in a battle spirit change, but is it too much. I found that molag bal's forces drop your shields wayyy too fast, it wont take long for a nb to figure out all he has to do is fear or scatter shot a sorc into a group to kill them. No set required. I think damage shields are a really good direction and has a really cool dragon age guard feel to it. I know you want to stop ganking and 1-shots, I actually believe damage shields are the best way to do it. Embrace them and instead of nerfing them, buff them. Here's my proposal:
Buff the duration of bone wall and make it scale off your max stamina instead of your max health. With all of this physical damage going around in 1.7 I think NB's will find use for this and it might finally be what stam sorcs are looking for in PvE.
Also bring in some serious changes to healing ward and ward ally, so that it is a healing skill not a self-defense skill. Consider moving the initial heal from healing ward to ward ally, removing the lock on ward ally so that it will heal any 2 allies including your self, and reduce the ward time of healing ward to make it heal much faster.
Why cant shields be your solution instead of the current battle spirit buff?
Oh and it doesn't make any sense to allow shields be crit, ok yes they would be really strong especially considering what I just said, but please give us some lore to accompany this.

-Surge hasn't been buffed, we never could hit anything faster than once every 0.3 seconds without a DoT. So now it's like it's just salt getting poured into the surge wound left from 1.6.

-I'm not sure if you saw the animation clipping Easter egg I left you in the videos. From all impression I don't think you think this is an exploit, I would just like to hear an official statement on the overload / BA clipping, can we use it or not? Now that I have said it and pointed it out, if it is in 1.7 expect me to be using it to my hearts content and publicly encouraging others to do so too.

I must be honest if it weren't for all of the Night Blades on the forums complaining about sorcerers and shield stacking I think this would be a great update, but I'm still really concerned about the general ZOS direction.

I really love the new bosses and think the PvE side has been amazing so far, Great work ZOS I'm impressed. Although combat and PvP are in shambles at the moment, the new content, the dungeons and Imperial City are AMAZING! :smiley: Have a look:

https://youtu.be/xOT4FVnGayQ
In here I'm trying out a bit of sorc tanking in 1.6 with my template character. It's really fun and that boss you see us fighting at the end was soo cool, it took me a while to figure out what was going on but it was fun and boy did he hit hard! I didn't even notice the smurf photobombing us, this was our first peek in, It was so much fun! I can definitely see this becoming one NB big gank fest a couple months after it goes live, but for now it is really enjoyable :dizzy:

If you are reading this please also check my post here for an issue I have found with a few particular item sets.

edit to do some spell checks and added some more stuff to my post

1.7.3
So I've been playing a stamina sorcerer and you know that in 1.7.2 it was a huge deal of fun, right now, while it still is in PvE, its horrible in PvP, and I don't think that has anything to do with the class. Have a look and tell me if I'm doing anything wrong.

Gear:
1 piece Molag Kena
2 piece Nobels conquest
5 pieces of Powerful assault (5 shield breaker for PvP)
3 pieces of agility 2 re-enchanted for Weapon Damage, 1 reduced cost.

Skills PvE:
Wrecking Blow
Critical Rush
Thundering Presence
Resolving Vigor
Bound Armaments
Flawless Dawnbreaker

Bombard
Arrow Barrage
Evil Hunter
Critical Surge
Bound Armaments
Energy Overload
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Streak
Dark Deal
Evil Hunter
Critical Surge
Bound Armaments

Skills PvP:
Executioner
Critical Rush
Defensive Rune
Resolving Vigor
Radiant Magelight
Soul Assault

Bombard (for dealing with NB's and Mobs)
Scorching Flare
Evil Hunter
Critical Surge
Radiant Magelight
Pack Leader

I don't know too much on what the snot is going on, but I'm still seeing people dropping ults faster than lightning and WHAT HAPPENED TO CLOAK!?!? I mean not a newb, I'm not going to lie, this isn't a L2P thing at all, this is madness! Freak I'm not going to call nerf, though I think its fair to say that in 1.7.3 that someone has just injected Magicka NB's with some sort of stupid potion! Just slotting 1 anti-cloak isn't enough anymore! You have to use a whole bloody bar just to counter NB's now :cry: Look maybe its just me and I really suck, so is anyone else having this issue especially with 1v1?

I do however want to say thanks for making Defensive Rune a Instant cast, without I'd be deaded twice over every time, could you actually make it so it does hit every time you take damage though? At the moment its only after a couple of hits that it'll finally proc, could it be more instant? I don't know how DK's and Temps deal with Cloak now :/ I guess in time we'll eventually find some way to pull a NB out of cloak and keep him out, then have our glorious lead combat designer fix it and buff NB's again so they can get around it.
In PvE though Stam Sorcs are having tremendous amounts of fun and its finally starting to feel right :dizzy:

Here are some quick notes:
Please Please do a quick improvement on Dark Deal and Dark Exchange, make it instant cast or make it twice as strong.
You know that's all I can say needs to be fixed, otherwise, good job :D

Oh and I did slot The shadow this time around, I think I like the Warrior a little better still, but the DPS difference was only around 200-300. The shadow, I don't know how to say it, just felt more fun, you really knew when you were crit hitting... And it felt so good :D But I will be going back soon.

2me760j.png
Edited by Zlater on August 28, 2015 2:37PM
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  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
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    I don't think any Sorcerer on these forums could have made a better post than this. Thank you, I enjoyed reading it. You've brought up some very important points. I hope the right people read this and take it into serious consideration (:
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
  • Dracane
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    You brought up some good points. I don't agree with everything, but it's a good post :)
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Zlater
    Zlater
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    I don't think any Sorcerer on these forums could have made a better post than this. Thank you, I enjoyed reading it. You've brought up some very important points. I hope the right people read this and take it into serious consideration (:

    Aww thanks, can you believe I spent all day putting this together? I just hope people will read it and like it ^^
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    www.redfurconnect.com
  • Zlater
    Zlater
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    Dracane wrote: »
    You brought up some good points. I don't agree with everything, but it's a good post :)

    Oh what would you suggest?
    Ask for an invite to the greatest network of guilds ever. Redfur Trading, Redfur Exchange and Redfur Army!

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  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Zlater wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    You brought up some good points. I don't agree with everything, but it's a good post :)

    Oh what would you suggest?

    The main point is mage's fury. It's the most lackluster Sorc skill in my opinion.

    This one second delay between the cast and the actual hit is horrible
    The 20% limitation is not appropriate. Each other execute in the game procs at 25%, if not higher.
    In dungeons, those nightblade have already killed a target below 25% until I can even lift my hand and then it takes 1 second until the bolt finally arrives. The target is already dead until that happens.

    Another huuuge problem is, that Mages Fury is so unreliable. You might have recognized, that when you apply mages fury and bring an enemy below 20%, it doesnt blow up instantly. Thats because mages fury checks every second if the target is below 20%. This and the 1 second delay between cast and hit makes it unuseable for me in pvp, as player have already healed themselves.

    And this 1 second is enough for other DDs in dungeons to kill the target. I cannot explain how much I dislike Mages Fury, it's just a bad ability and even if it procs, I would expect it to be a promised kill, considering this low 20% limitation. It rarely kills though. And the 10% boost won't change anything (sorry for the long text, but I wanted to say this since over 1 year <3 )

    Edit: Also, it procs when the enemy is at 18% health, not at 19%. Doesn't matter you would say.... but this is a huuuge difference. Don't know how often I had enemies at 19% but it just wouldnt proc
    Edited by Dracane on August 1, 2015 8:25AM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • k2blader
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    Just wanted to say thanks, that's a lot of interesting info and opinion there. :-)

    The point of different classes is they are different-- a primary difference between sorcs and non-sorc classes is the latter were designed to be moreso in melee range. So keeping that in mind, other classes' abilities to enhance their own defense/survival make sense as they are. Rather than nerfing all shields across the board or giving every class a "Hardened Ward equivalent" Zeni should look toward buffing up defensive class skills (that need it) with additional mitigation/heal effects.
    Disabling the grass may improve performance.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    You know what I don't understand ? Sorcs are asking for a spammable class ability every day.
    Mage's Fury would be the perfect solution. Don't understand why they don't increase the initial bolt damage to be on par with other spammable abilities and make it critable already (the bolt cannot crit for some silly reason)
    I couldn't care less about the execute. I can simply use any other abilitiy to deplead this liddle bit of health. And faster, because mages fury takes too long to arrive at the target.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Zlater
    Zlater
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Zlater wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    You brought up some good points. I don't agree with everything, but it's a good post :)

    Oh what would you suggest?

    The main point is mage's fury. It's the most lackluster Sorc skill in my opinion.

    This one second delay between the cast and the actual hit is horrible
    The 20% limitation is not appropriate. Each other execute in the game procs at 25%, if not higher.
    In dungeons, those nightblade have already killed a target below 25% until I can even lift my hand and then it takes 1 second until the bolt finally arrives. The target is already dead until that happens.

    Another huuuge problem is, that Mages Fury is so unreliable. You might have recognized, that when you apply mages fury and bring an enemy below 20%, it doesnt blow up instantly. Thats because mages fury checks every second if the target is below 20%. This and the 1 second delay between cast and hit makes it unuseable for me in pvp, as player have already healed themselves.

    And this 1 second is enough for other DDs in dungeons to kill the target. I cannot explain how much I dislike Mages Fury, it's just a bad ability and even if it procs, I would expect it to be a promised kill, considering this low 20% limitation. It rarely kills though. And the 10% boost won't change anything (sorry for the long text, but I wanted to say this since over 1 year <3 )

    Edit: Also, it procs when the enemy is at 18% health, not at 19%. Doesn't matter you would say.... but this is a huuuge difference. Don't know how often I had enemies at 19% but it just wouldnt proc

    Wow you don't mind if I note down your study somewhere? I've never looked into mages fury in depth so it's great that you have, I like that i can pew and kill with it, but now you making me think 10% might make up a little for the delay in checks.

    @k2blader thanks, I don't like this whole nerf damage or nerf shields thing, its kinda like getting shot and then putting a band aid over the hole. "There its better," sure its something, but it doesn't change that that chunk of lead is still lodged in my leg. If we want to address all of the issues in a way thats the most beneficial I believe we need properly find where these problems came from instead of just using band aid measures, like the battle spirit buff. These blanket changes affect other things too, I made a thread here explaining how it's destroying some of our old and awesome PvP sets further.
    Ask for an invite to the greatest network of guilds ever. Redfur Trading, Redfur Exchange and Redfur Army!

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  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Zlater wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    You brought up some good points. I don't agree with everything, but it's a good post :)

    Oh what would you suggest?

    The main point is mage's fury. It's the most lackluster Sorc skill in my opinion.

    This one second delay between the cast and the actual hit is horrible
    The 20% limitation is not appropriate. Each other execute in the game procs at 25%, if not higher.
    In dungeons, those nightblade have already killed a target below 25% until I can even lift my hand and then it takes 1 second until the bolt finally arrives. The target is already dead until that happens.

    Another huuuge problem is, that Mages Fury is so unreliable. You might have recognized, that when you apply mages fury and bring an enemy below 20%, it doesnt blow up instantly. Thats because mages fury checks every second if the target is below 20%. This and the 1 second delay between cast and hit makes it unuseable for me in pvp, as player have already healed themselves.

    And this 1 second is enough for other DDs in dungeons to kill the target. I cannot explain how much I dislike Mages Fury, it's just a bad ability and even if it procs, I would expect it to be a promised kill, considering this low 20% limitation. It rarely kills though. And the 10% boost won't change anything (sorry for the long text, but I wanted to say this since over 1 year <3 )

    Edit: Also, it procs when the enemy is at 18% health, not at 19%. Doesn't matter you would say.... but this is a huuuge difference. Don't know how often I had enemies at 19% but it just wouldnt proc

    I agree its unreliable, the delay is very annoying and the 20% hp execute range is strange to say the least.

    The fact that it stays on the target for 4 seconds can be very usefull though, it can be used to set up insane burst dps with cfrags, curse, prox deto, flawless dawnbreaker, meteor etc.

    On live I can literally kill someone with a single burst without having to use my ulti, with high spell dmg curse (9k) and cfrags (12k) gets most players below 20% health, mages fury takes care of the rest.

    The problem is that this skill isnt usefull for all builds, it would be nice to have one morph which does instant damage, like whip for example. Its strange that all sorc skill seem to be focussed on burst damage, this makes sorcs dangerous in pvp but dps sorcs in pve score below par.
    PC - EU (AD)
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  • Dracane
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    I tried to use Mages Fury in PvP, it's not usefull. As I said, one force pulse has the same effect but faster. 20% health is around 4000 health for the average player. I don't need Mages Fury to take care of this. In fact, Mages Fury totally messed up my entire playstyle. It also happened a lot, that even when it blew up, the enemy just survived it all the time. It's not reliable and gets worse with the 50% reduction in pvp (which goes for all abilities though)

    Because I was too focused on using it, a mistake. It's not that I never received kills with it. Probably even kills, that I wouldn't have been able to get without it. But I don't sacrifise 1 slot for an abilitiy, that is barely usefull. If they would at least increase the execute range and the behavior of this abilitiy to make it a usefull execute.

    Or take care of the initial bolt to make it an option to things like force shock.
    Edited by Dracane on August 1, 2015 11:23AM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Jar_Ek
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    Agree with op about surge, changing the CD to 0.1 seconds should smooth the heals out so that you should rarely miss a big heal without removing dots. At the very least it could be tested?

    Agree about dark deal needing to be animation cancellable or maybe be a 2 tick effect 30% on activation, 70% on ability end. Currently it is a little unwieldy, esp as sometimes you think it's finished but it hasn't...

    Quite like your bolt escape suggestion, increased range and short duration ball of light might be okay even with the massive cost stacking mechanic.

    Pets still need to be usable as a stamina build, atm the only useful one is the clannfear for the heal and off tanking. If pets scaled with magicka or stamina then deadric prey and empowered ward might have a use in some stamina builds...

    As a stamina sorcerer I will step away from commenting on shields as we don't really use them that much, except maybe brawler in mob packs.
  • Ahzek
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    The fact with dark deal is that it has a cast rime of 1 second now. Instead of asking to change the animation/timing you ask for the ability to become instant cast.
    This is a huge difference, since an ability with cast time like deal now can be bashed and forces your charackter to drop block. I agree an instant cast dark deal would be better, especially from a PvP perspective, but in PvE this would essentially revert their change with stamina regen while blocking, allowing sorc tanks infinite stam with no real drawbacks.
    Jo'Khaljor
  • Dracane
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    Ahzek wrote: »
    The fact with dark deal is that it has a cast rime of 1 second now. Instead of asking to change the animation/timing you ask for the ability to become instant cast.
    This is a huge difference, since an ability with cast time like deal now can be bashed and forces your charackter to drop block. I agree an instant cast dark deal would be better, especially from a PvP perspective, but in PvE this would essentially revert their change with stamina regen while blocking, allowing sorc tanks infinite stam with no real drawbacks.

    To be honest, I thought, it would work this way :) I thought, we could blockcast it, which would result in Sorcs being the best tanks. But I tested it, it doesn't work

    I agree that this is a bit over the top. But it should still be an instant cast, that still requires you to drop block. Or maybe restore 50% stamina on activation and 50% at the end of the channel. Because this way, it's too risky and unhandy in pvp
    Edited by Dracane on August 1, 2015 2:24PM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Master_Kas
    Master_Kas
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    Dracane wrote: »
    You know what I don't understand ? Sorcs are asking for a spammable class ability every day.
    Mage's Fury would be the perfect solution. Don't understand why they don't increase the initial bolt damage to be on par with other spammable abilities and make it critable already (the bolt cannot crit for some silly reason)
    I couldn't care less about the execute. I can simply use any other abilitiy to deplead this liddle bit of health. And faster, because mages fury takes too long to arrive at the target.

    Agree with this. Each class should have its instant spammable DPS skill.

    Want this on my sorc :< ZOS make it happen

    Edit: OP good points, and ty for the videos :)
    Edited by Master_Kas on August 1, 2015 3:09PM
    EU | PC
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Master_Kas wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    You know what I don't understand ? Sorcs are asking for a spammable class ability every day.
    Mage's Fury would be the perfect solution. Don't understand why they don't increase the initial bolt damage to be on par with other spammable abilities and make it critable already (the bolt cannot crit for some silly reason)
    I couldn't care less about the execute. I can simply use any other abilitiy to deplead this liddle bit of health. And faster, because mages fury takes too long to arrive at the target.

    Agree with this. Each class should have its instant spammable DPS skill.

    Want this on my sorc :< ZOS make it happen

    Edit: OP good points, and ty for the videos :)

    I wish they would make this happen. It's so easy :)
    Sorcerers are meant to work with lightning and would give options to the overused crushing shock.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • LMar
    LMar
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    Great work Zlater :D I really like your inddepth testing. Agreed on the regen passives as well and Mage's Wrath feels like a waste of space on the bar if you can just do similar or more damage with other skills even if it is an execute!
    "If a stick of fish is a fish stick, it will stick like other fish sticks stick"
    "Taller races now sit in chairs correctly"
  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    Great post. I would point out some especially good passages if it weren't so many! :open_mouth:
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • Zlater
    Zlater
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    edit to do some spell checks and added some more stuff to my post
    Ask for an invite to the greatest network of guilds ever. Redfur Trading, Redfur Exchange and Redfur Army!

    www.redfurconnect.com
  • Zolron
    Zolron
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    Zlater wrote: »


    -Surge hasn't been buffed, we never could hit anything faster than once every 0.3 seconds without a DoT. So now it's like it's just salt getting poured into the surge wound left from 1.6.
    [/b][/color]

    Not sure if I understand this...isn't surge also now not being triggered by DOT`S ? That change combined with the lowered cooldown should make the crit surge impulse sorcerer viable again? Or am i missing something?
    Edited by Zolron on August 2, 2015 3:02PM
  • Jar_Ek
    Jar_Ek
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    @zolron You are missing the fact that the 100ms cooldown with prevent multiple heals from multiple targets. So impulse probably won't become viable as a healing mechanism. However I will try to test later.
  • Snit
    Snit
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    Great post.
    Zlater wrote: »
    ...and it so happens that Eric is a nightblade player

    This would explain quite a lot. Everyone's point of view is informed by their experiences.



    Edited by Snit on August 2, 2015 4:51PM
    Snit AD Sorc
    Ratbag AD Warden Tank
    Goblins AD Stamblade

  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Another ability morph which is a nice subject for some creative changes is daedric mines, the Daedric Tomb morph.
    Does anyone even use this ? Couldn't find any use for it so far. Thought it could be good to use it for burst rotations or so.
    But it's too expensive and too unhandy too use it frequently.

    Wouldn't it be possible, to change this in another ground AoE or so ? Something that really helps Sorcerer DPS for dungeons ? Hands down, nobody uses this morph :D It offers interesting options for some ideas.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Glantir
    Glantir
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    Sorcs have a focus on lightning spells and if i look on lightning npc mages there are some things i would like to see on my sorc, Chainlightning (maybe in an other form than the AA Mages one) or the Lightning explosion ^^.

    On live server I like mages furry in pvp because you can cast it and you have 4 seconds to bring your target under 20%
    nevertheless is mages furry a weak skill, other classes could execute at 25% (with full execute power) and even hit harder than we does with mages furry

    In my first white gold tower run, furry deals about 12k dmg (crit) but i have to use a template char, dont know what other classes do with execute but i heard 14k and more maybe its even with a good equiped char but we start to execute at 20% so mages furry need to be stronger than other execute skills in my opinion.
    Glantir Sorcerer ~ Ebonheart Pact (EU)
  • Zlater
    Zlater
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Ahzek wrote: »
    The fact with dark deal is that it has a cast rime of 1 second now. Instead of asking to change the animation/timing you ask for the ability to become instant cast.
    This is a huge difference, since an ability with cast time like deal now can be bashed and forces your charackter to drop block. I agree an instant cast dark deal would be better, especially from a PvP perspective, but in PvE this would essentially revert their change with stamina regen while blocking, allowing sorc tanks infinite stam with no real drawbacks.

    To be honest, I thought, it would work this way :) I thought, we could blockcast it, which would result in Sorcs being the best tanks. But I tested it, it doesn't work

    I agree that this is a bit over the top. But it should still be an instant cast, that still requires you to drop block. Or maybe restore 50% stamina on activation and 50% at the end of the channel. Because this way, it's too risky and unhandy in pvp

    You know when I did it I wasn't pulling in any actual numbers with it, the self heals it provides are really nice and a lack of block was likely to be disguised by that. I don't think it would be an issue if it did allow sorcs to block cast, being a tank on live too, I know sorcs shouldn't be block casting anyway, and if you really wanted to, it would come at a BIG loss. I really meant it more for DPS, I know when I'm DPSing in 1.7 I will still be choosing the mages guild option unless the healer is a bit too slack.
    Zolron wrote: »
    Zlater wrote: »


    -Surge hasn't been buffed, we never could hit anything faster than once every 0.3 seconds without a DoT. So now it's like it's just salt getting poured into the surge wound left from 1.6.
    [/b][/color]

    Not sure if I understand this...isn't surge also now not being triggered by DOT`S ? That change combined with the lowered cooldown should make the crit surge impulse sorcerer viable again? Or am i missing something?

    No it will only counts once within the 0.1 of a second that it hits. Before you could lay down lighting splash and get healed from there. Nothing really changes though, every sorc will still be using degeneration.
    Snit wrote: »
    Great post.
    Zlater wrote: »
    ...and it so happens that Eric is a nightblade player

    This would explain quite a lot. Everyone's point of view is informed by their experiences.



    Hehe yeah, you'll notice the guy before him was a DK player, talk about coincidence xP.
    Dracane wrote: »
    Another ability morph which is a nice subject for some creative changes is daedric mines, the Daedric Tomb morph.
    Does anyone even use this ? Couldn't find any use for it so far. Thought it could be good to use it for burst rotations or so.
    But it's too expensive and too unhandy too use it frequently.

    Wouldn't it be possible, to change this in another ground AoE or so ? Something that really helps Sorcerer DPS for dungeons ? Hands down, nobody uses this morph :D It offers interesting options for some ideas.

    It could be useful if you layer it down right after a gap closer :/ that's just what I'm thinking, but no one is using a gap closer on a sorc just yet.
    Glantir wrote: »
    Sorcs have a focus on lightning spells and if i look on lightning npc mages there are some things i would like to see on my sorc, Chainlightning (maybe in an other form than the AA Mages one) or the Lightning explosion ^^.

    On live server I like mages furry in pvp because you can cast it and you have 4 seconds to bring your target under 20%
    nevertheless is mages furry a weak skill, other classes could execute at 25% (with full execute power) and even hit harder than we does with mages furry

    In my first white gold tower run, furry deals about 12k dmg (crit) but i have to use a template char, dont know what other classes do with execute but i heard 14k and more maybe its even with a good equiped char but we start to execute at 20% so mages furry need to be stronger than other execute skills in my opinion.

    OOo... Chain lightning, when I hear that I think overload heavy attack :P I do like what you are thinking though.
    Ask for an invite to the greatest network of guilds ever. Redfur Trading, Redfur Exchange and Redfur Army!

    www.redfurconnect.com
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Another ability morph which is a nice subject for some creative changes is daedric mines, the Daedric Tomb morph.
    Does anyone even use this ? Couldn't find any use for it so far. Thought it could be good to use it for burst rotations or so.
    But it's too expensive and too unhandy too use it frequently.

    Wouldn't it be possible, to change this in another ground AoE or so ? Something that really helps Sorcerer DPS for dungeons ? Hands down, nobody uses this morph :D It offers interesting options for some ideas.
    @Dracane I actually switched back to this morph for PTS purposes.

    It's an easy 15k damage if you can get the enemy to step in all three. It works better in theory than in practice, especially in the narrower passageways coupled with CC (Encase or morph thereof). Plant it just right and they're gonna eat one immediately, and at least one more when trying to exit.

    I think Minefield probably has better potential, though, still protecting you from all sides and stacking neatly for up to ~25k if you place it in a tight spot, just right.

    It is costly, though.
    Edited by Merlin13KAGL on August 3, 2015 1:52PM
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • olsborg
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    Bolt Escape should stay an escape, but not a way to travel.

    If they are gonna keep the 50% stacking cost increase to BE, they should atleast increase the length of travel so it atleast MIGHT work as an escape now and not a ridiculously expencive way to set yourself up for gap closers.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Tankqull
    Tankqull
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Zlater wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    You brought up some good points. I don't agree with everything, but it's a good post :)

    Oh what would you suggest?

    The main point is mage's fury. It's the most lackluster Sorc skill in my opinion.

    This one second delay between the cast and the actual hit is horrible
    The 20% limitation is not appropriate. Each other execute in the game procs at 25%, if not higher.
    In dungeons, those nightblade have already killed a target below 25% until I can even lift my hand and then it takes 1 second until the bolt finally arrives. The target is already dead until that happens.

    Another huuuge problem is, that Mages Fury is so unreliable. You might have recognized, that when you apply mages fury and bring an enemy below 20%, it doesnt blow up instantly. Thats because mages fury checks every second if the target is below 20%. This and the 1 second delay between cast and hit makes it unuseable for me in pvp, as player have already healed themselves.

    And this 1 second is enough for other DDs in dungeons to kill the target. I cannot explain how much I dislike Mages Fury, it's just a bad ability and even if it procs, I would expect it to be a promised kill, considering this low 20% limitation. It rarely kills though. And the 10% boost won't change anything (sorry for the long text, but I wanted to say this since over 1 year <3 )

    Edit: Also, it procs when the enemy is at 18% health, not at 19%. Doesn't matter you would say.... but this is a huuuge difference. Don't know how often I had enemies at 19% but it just wouldnt proc

    agree whole heartly what i would like to see done to this ability is a significant increase of its base dmg to become a CS alike spammable ability with its finisher proc reduced to match the dmg of all other finisher abilitys.
    and the second morph should be a close range stamina version of that behavior with a reduced executioner so its slightly below other executioners (~20% weaker) as a compensation for not relying an two abilities.

    @OP really insightfull i hope the correct instances at ZOS realize this thread - but i doubt so :(
    Edited by Tankqull on August 3, 2015 5:12PM
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


  • Zlater
    Zlater
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    olsborg wrote: »
    Bolt Escape should stay an escape, but not a way to travel.

    If they are gonna keep the 50% stacking cost increase to BE, they should atleast increase the length of travel so it atleast MIGHT work as an escape now and not a ridiculously expencive way to set yourself up for gap closers.

    Exactly right :D
    Ask for an invite to the greatest network of guilds ever. Redfur Trading, Redfur Exchange and Redfur Army!

    www.redfurconnect.com
  • Zlater
    Zlater
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    I put some stuff I found when using my Stam Sorc, tell me what you think?
    Ask for an invite to the greatest network of guilds ever. Redfur Trading, Redfur Exchange and Redfur Army!

    www.redfurconnect.com
  • Master_Kas
    Master_Kas
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    olsborg wrote: »
    Bolt Escape should stay an escape, but not a way to travel.

    If they are gonna keep the 50% stacking cost increase to BE, they should atleast increase the length of travel so it atleast MIGHT work as an escape now and not a ridiculously expencive way to set yourself up for gap closers.

    Agree with this :)
    EU | PC
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