When will see Reduction to Physical Damage in Champion System?

Nifty2g · July 2015

I don't understand, if we have reduction to Poison, Disease, Magic, Flame, Frost, Shock and Damage over Time effects why was Physical Damage left out of the Champion System and still is. It just doesn't make sense, and Physical Damage builds will continue to get stronger and stronger because you can't mitigate any of the damage output against Mighty (Increase your physical damage by x%), Piercing (Increase the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by x%) and Precise Strikes (Increases the critical damage of your physical attacks by x%).

Zlater · July 2015

Almost all PvE damage is spell damage, I don't think it will be soon. But thanks for asking.

Nifty2g · July 2015

Zlater wrote: »

Almost all PvE damage is spell damage, I don't think it will be soon. But thanks for asking.

This is in regards to PvP, as Imperial City is based for the PvP player this is kind of a large issue? Which is why I posted on the PTS forums

Nifty2g · August 2015

@ZOS is there any word on this for balancing issues?

k2blader · August 2015

Great question.

Conveniently ignored by many..

Zeni is too busy nerfing magicka defensive abilities to care.

Nifty2g · August 2015

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler Please take a look into this issue. It's going to become a large problem as people start to progress even more with their CP

DisgracefulMind · August 2015

k2blader wrote: »

Great question.

Conveniently ignored by many..

Zeni is too busy nerfing magicka defensive abilities to care.

I think the shield nerfs would be far more justified if we were given the option to spec into physical resistance. As it stands, us magicka, light armor Sorcerers are in a situation where our class is about to be completely destroyed.

Give us physical resistance as an option in the CP trees, and the shield nerfs would be more tolerable...but as it stands, once they nerf shields even more, we're just going to be the "easy kills" everyone wants us to be again from pre-1.6. It's sad, really. :c

tplink3r1 · August 2015

When they increase the range of my melee abilities to 28 meters.

Artis · August 2015

Isn't armor increase kinda equivalent to those? And reduces physical damage?

Personofsecrets · August 2015

Who does better? The person with 100 champion points into physical damage increase or the person with 100 champion points into physical damage resistance?

k2blader · August 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Great question.

Conveniently ignored by many..

Zeni is too busy nerfing magicka defensive abilities to care.

I think the shield nerfs would be far more justified if we were given the option to spec into physical resistance. As it stands, us magicka, light armor Sorcerers are in a situation where our class is about to be completely destroyed.

Give us physical resistance as an option in the CP trees, and the shield nerfs would be more tolerable...but as it stands, once they nerf shields even more, we're just going to be the "easy kills" everyone wants us to be again from pre-1.6. It's sad, really. :c

Yep. The BE nerf is enough. For a ranged magic damage dealer, a mobility nerf is a significant nerf.

Before 1.6, how many sorcs actually wanted to be a "shield-tank" class-- but Zeni gave us no other viable options with light armor being so weak. Some will come along and say, "But NBs," to which the reply is, "Fear, Cloak (use your NB skills!)." As for DKs I think they blame sorcs for the reflective scales nerf. Templars seem the least hate-y of the bunch. lol

I dunno anymore. Not many fair minded non-sorcs around here. :-|

monkeymystic · August 2015

I have asked for this since the CP system went live, and I also warned ZOS that balance will be screwed once people get more CP, like we are seeing now on live with physical dmg being OP compared to all other types (and not just because of nirnhorn, but cp resistance).

For the balance of the game, it is CRUCIAL that physical dmg also get a resistance in CP tree, otherwise there will be a 25% difference between the two, which is crazy imbalanced.

And please for the love of god fix the abilities that suffer from 2x penalties also (Heal based on dmg done, which gets double nerfed)

DisgracefulMind · August 2015

k2blader wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Great question.

Conveniently ignored by many..

Zeni is too busy nerfing magicka defensive abilities to care.

I think the shield nerfs would be far more justified if we were given the option to spec into physical resistance. As it stands, us magicka, light armor Sorcerers are in a situation where our class is about to be completely destroyed.

Give us physical resistance as an option in the CP trees, and the shield nerfs would be more tolerable...but as it stands, once they nerf shields even more, we're just going to be the "easy kills" everyone wants us to be again from pre-1.6. It's sad, really. :c

Yep. The BE nerf is enough. For a ranged magic damage dealer, a mobility nerf is a significant nerf.

Before 1.6, how many sorcs actually wanted to be a "shield-tank" class-- but Zeni gave us no other viable options with light armor being so weak. Some will come along and say, "But NBs," to which the reply is, "Fear, Cloak (use your NB skills!)." As for DKs I think they blame sorcs for the reflective scales nerf. Templars seem the least hate-y of the bunch. lol

I dunno anymore. Not many fair minded non-sorcs around here. :-|

Templars are in a situation where their class needs to be significantly worked on, and they are being hit hard by the shield nerfs. I think all magicka users would be happy to have physical resistance added, and would not take the shield nerfs so offensively.

k2blader · August 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Great question.

Conveniently ignored by many..

Zeni is too busy nerfing magicka defensive abilities to care.

I think the shield nerfs would be far more justified if we were given the option to spec into physical resistance. As it stands, us magicka, light armor Sorcerers are in a situation where our class is about to be completely destroyed.

Give us physical resistance as an option in the CP trees, and the shield nerfs would be more tolerable...but as it stands, once they nerf shields even more, we're just going to be the "easy kills" everyone wants us to be again from pre-1.6. It's sad, really. :c

Yep. The BE nerf is enough. For a ranged magic damage dealer, a mobility nerf is a significant nerf.

Before 1.6, how many sorcs actually wanted to be a "shield-tank" class-- but Zeni gave us no other viable options with light armor being so weak. Some will come along and say, "But NBs," to which the reply is, "Fear, Cloak (use your NB skills!)." As for DKs I think they blame sorcs for the reflective scales nerf. Templars seem the least hate-y of the bunch. lol

I dunno anymore. Not many fair minded non-sorcs around here. :-|

Templars are in a situation where their class needs to be significantly worked on, and they are being hit hard by the shield nerfs. I think all magicka users would be happy to have physical resistance added, and would not take the shield nerfs so offensively.

If so that's cool. Honestly though on the forums, I really haven't seen any sympathy for the barrage of nerfs that directly impact sorcs-- in fact there's more of a smug "you deserve it" kind of attitude-- when even underpowered in 1.5 I never felt that way toward other classes.

Why don't people just look at what can be done or improved with their own classes instead of calling to nerf others.

Everyone can equip a resto staff. Yet people who cry about shields are almost always targeting the sorc shield. When there's good reason why sorcs need a good shield.

olsborg · August 2015

Been asking this myself. If ZOS could give a constructive answer as to why, that would be good.

DisgracefulMind · August 2015

k2blader wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Great question.

Conveniently ignored by many..

Zeni is too busy nerfing magicka defensive abilities to care.

I think the shield nerfs would be far more justified if we were given the option to spec into physical resistance. As it stands, us magicka, light armor Sorcerers are in a situation where our class is about to be completely destroyed.

Give us physical resistance as an option in the CP trees, and the shield nerfs would be more tolerable...but as it stands, once they nerf shields even more, we're just going to be the "easy kills" everyone wants us to be again from pre-1.6. It's sad, really. :c

Yep. The BE nerf is enough. For a ranged magic damage dealer, a mobility nerf is a significant nerf.

Before 1.6, how many sorcs actually wanted to be a "shield-tank" class-- but Zeni gave us no other viable options with light armor being so weak. Some will come along and say, "But NBs," to which the reply is, "Fear, Cloak (use your NB skills!)." As for DKs I think they blame sorcs for the reflective scales nerf. Templars seem the least hate-y of the bunch. lol

I dunno anymore. Not many fair minded non-sorcs around here. :-|

Templars are in a situation where their class needs to be significantly worked on, and they are being hit hard by the shield nerfs. I think all magicka users would be happy to have physical resistance added, and would not take the shield nerfs so offensively.

If so that's cool. Honestly though on the forums, I really haven't seen any sympathy for the barrage of nerfs that directly impact sorcs-- in fact there's more of a smug "you deserve it" kind of attitude-- when even underpowered in 1.5 I never felt that way toward other classes.

Why don't people just look at what can be done or improved with their own classes instead of calling to nerf others.

Everyone can equip a resto staff. Yet people who cry about shields are almost always targeting the sorc shield. When there's good reason why sorcs need a good shield.

I agree completely with you. Completely. It fills me with a bit of rage that people don't look at the entire picture here. Shield stacking is available to everyone. Yes, even nightblades can stack healing ward and harness.

There is not sympathy for Sorcs because we became able to fight back after all the bullying pre-1.6. Since Sorcs are not easily one-shotted, people have an issue with it. No one has taken the time to see why a magicka Sorcerer would need their ward. We don't have a class heal, most of our attacks are easily mitigated, and with all the heavy physical damage in Cyrodiil, it's the only thing stopping us from dying in one hit. What happens when you can't get your ward up right away? You die in one or two hits. But no one takes that into consideration, because most people crying about the shield don't play sorcerer and have no idea how one is actually played.

I wish people would do as you have said, and look more into what can be done or improved with the class they mainly play, but, unfortunately, ESO has a forum community that seems to want to nerf everything they have any slight issue with. Sad times for Sorcs. :c

Wing · August 2015

I agree, and would love to see a physical mitigation CP ability put in the atronarch tree

Nifty2g · August 2015

Artemis wrote: »

Isn't armor increase kinda equivalent to those? And reduces physical damage?

It does, but then again so does Spell Resistance. There is a severe imbalance between the two, and abilities like Focused Aim reduce your max armor anyway. Same with maces and etc. It's heavily broken and I hope soon @ZOS do something about it.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO · August 2015

olsborg wrote: »

Been asking this myself. If ZOS could give a constructive answer as to why, that would be good.

Good luck. When asked about the justifi ation for the suge cooldown, they just gave a bs response. In order to answer a question about imbalances in the game, it would be required they recognize there is a problem.

Tankqull · August 2015

Artemis wrote: »

Isn't armor increase kinda equivalent to those? And reduces physical damage?

a 25% increase to 4k armor is not aquivilent to a 25% increase to 10000 dmg +25%more crit dmg+25%armor penetration (negating the increase entirley)

AhPook_Is_Here · August 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

I don't understand, if we have reduction to Poison, Disease, Magic, Flame, Frost, Shock and Damage over Time effects why was Physical Damage left out of the Champion System and still is. It just doesn't make sense, and Physical Damage builds will continue to get stronger and stronger because you can't mitigate any of the damage output against Mighty (Increase your physical damage by x%), Piercing (Increase the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by x%) and Precise Strikes (Increases the critical damage of your physical attacks by x%).

I'm going to point out the obvious, all 3 warrior trees have one method for improving physical resistance.

Nifty2g · August 2015

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I don't understand, if we have reduction to Poison, Disease, Magic, Flame, Frost, Shock and Damage over Time effects why was Physical Damage left out of the Champion System and still is. It just doesn't make sense, and Physical Damage builds will continue to get stronger and stronger because you can't mitigate any of the damage output against Mighty (Increase your physical damage by x%), Piercing (Increase the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by x%) and Precise Strikes (Increases the critical damage of your physical attacks by x%).

I'm going to point out the obvious, all 3 warrior trees have one method for improving physical resistance.

Fair point, I guess I'll write it in simpler terms to understand.

Medium Armor Focus, Light Armor Focus and Heavy Armor Focus Requires you to wear 5 pieces of medium armor, light armor or heavy armor and is a 25% increase based on your current armor, in simple terms that is nothing compared to Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned when going up against Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert you're able to mitigate the damage ouput from those. But when you're going up against someone with maxed out Precise Strikes, Piercing and Mighty, 25% armor increase of 7,000 for example is nothing. There is no output Damage Mitigation.

My suggestion would be for ZOS to make use of Thick Skinned

Warraxx · August 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I don't understand, if we have reduction to Poison, Disease, Magic, Flame, Frost, Shock and Damage over Time effects why was Physical Damage left out of the Champion System and still is. It just doesn't make sense, and Physical Damage builds will continue to get stronger and stronger because you can't mitigate any of the damage output against Mighty (Increase your physical damage by x%), Piercing (Increase the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by x%) and Precise Strikes (Increases the critical damage of your physical attacks by x%).

I'm going to point out the obvious, all 3 warrior trees have one method for improving physical resistance.

Fair point, I guess I'll write it in simpler terms to understand.

Medium Armor Focus, Light Armor Focus and Heavy Armor Focus Requires you to wear 5 pieces of medium armor, light armor or heavy armor and is a 25% increase based on your current armor, in simple terms that is nothing compared to Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned when going up against Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert you're able to mitigate the damage ouput from those. But when you're going up against someone with maxed out Precise Strikes, Piercing and Mighty, 25% armor increase of 7,000 for example is nothing. There is no output Damage Mitigation.

My suggestion would be for ZOS to make use of Thick Skinned

...and my suggestion would be to wear some heavy armor.

Nifty2g · August 2015

Warraxx wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I don't understand, if we have reduction to Poison, Disease, Magic, Flame, Frost, Shock and Damage over Time effects why was Physical Damage left out of the Champion System and still is. It just doesn't make sense, and Physical Damage builds will continue to get stronger and stronger because you can't mitigate any of the damage output against Mighty (Increase your physical damage by x%), Piercing (Increase the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by x%) and Precise Strikes (Increases the critical damage of your physical attacks by x%).

I'm going to point out the obvious, all 3 warrior trees have one method for improving physical resistance.

Fair point, I guess I'll write it in simpler terms to understand.

Medium Armor Focus, Light Armor Focus and Heavy Armor Focus Requires you to wear 5 pieces of medium armor, light armor or heavy armor and is a 25% increase based on your current armor, in simple terms that is nothing compared to Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned when going up against Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert you're able to mitigate the damage ouput from those. But when you're going up against someone with maxed out Precise Strikes, Piercing and Mighty, 25% armor increase of 7,000 for example is nothing. There is no output Damage Mitigation.

My suggestion would be for ZOS to make use of Thick Skinned

...and my suggestion would be to wear some heavy armor.

So because the game is far unbalanced I'm forced to wear Heavy Armor and drop all my damage output which by the way, even in heavy armor it's going to do nothing against Focused Aim if you're able to do basic math.

PBpsy · August 2015

tplink3r1 wrote: »

When they increase the range of my melee abilities to 28 meters.

Ok. Cool. Now how about we reduce gap closers to 12m with a 33% stam cost increase per use and reduced snipe range to 14m. I would say fair deal.

AhPook_Is_Here · August 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I don't understand, if we have reduction to Poison, Disease, Magic, Flame, Frost, Shock and Damage over Time effects why was Physical Damage left out of the Champion System and still is. It just doesn't make sense, and Physical Damage builds will continue to get stronger and stronger because you can't mitigate any of the damage output against Mighty (Increase your physical damage by x%), Piercing (Increase the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by x%) and Precise Strikes (Increases the critical damage of your physical attacks by x%).

I'm going to point out the obvious, all 3 warrior trees have one method for improving physical resistance.

Fair point, I guess I'll write it in simpler terms to understand.

Medium Armor Focus, Light Armor Focus and Heavy Armor Focus Requires you to wear 5 pieces of medium armor, light armor or heavy armor and is a 25% increase based on your current armor, in simple terms that is nothing compared to Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned when going up against Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert you're able to mitigate the damage ouput from those. But when you're going up against someone with maxed out Precise Strikes, Piercing and Mighty, 25% armor increase of 7,000 for example is nothing. There is no output Damage Mitigation.

My suggestion would be for ZOS to make use of Thick Skinned

I get that you want another stat that is another multiplier in the damage calculation, but don't you think the system is totally wonky as it is? For Magic you have base spell resist and special damage resist as your defensive multipliers and you have spell penetration and specific damage type multipliers offensively. Melee is similar but without the additional defensive multiplier and with only penetration and damage as offensive multipliers on abilities with an additional multiplier on normal and heavy attacks.

I think they should simplify the whole system, I'm not even sure what the order of operations is on most of these calculations and they aren't always what I expect to see in a tool tip.

Nifty2g · August 2015

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I don't understand, if we have reduction to Poison, Disease, Magic, Flame, Frost, Shock and Damage over Time effects why was Physical Damage left out of the Champion System and still is. It just doesn't make sense, and Physical Damage builds will continue to get stronger and stronger because you can't mitigate any of the damage output against Mighty (Increase your physical damage by x%), Piercing (Increase the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by x%) and Precise Strikes (Increases the critical damage of your physical attacks by x%).

I'm going to point out the obvious, all 3 warrior trees have one method for improving physical resistance.

Fair point, I guess I'll write it in simpler terms to understand.

Medium Armor Focus, Light Armor Focus and Heavy Armor Focus Requires you to wear 5 pieces of medium armor, light armor or heavy armor and is a 25% increase based on your current armor, in simple terms that is nothing compared to Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned when going up against Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert you're able to mitigate the damage ouput from those. But when you're going up against someone with maxed out Precise Strikes, Piercing and Mighty, 25% armor increase of 7,000 for example is nothing. There is no output Damage Mitigation.

My suggestion would be for ZOS to make use of Thick Skinned

I get that you want another stat that is another multiplier in the damage calculation, but don't you think the system is totally wonky as it is? For Magic you have base spell resist and special damage resist as your defensive multipliers and you have spell penetration and specific damage type multipliers offensively. Melee is similar but without the additional defensive multiplier and with only penetration and damage as offensive multipliers on abilities with an additional multiplier on normal and heavy attacks.

I think they should simplify the whole system, I'm not even sure what the order of operations is on most of these calculations and they aren't always what I expect to see in a tool tip.

No, I want them to add in another Damage Mitigation, because as it stands Stamina is far too strong and will only get stronger because you can not mitigate the damage as opposed to caster.
Yes the Champion System is wonky, I hate it

eliisra · August 2015

Artemis wrote: »

Isn't armor increase kinda equivalent to those? And reduces physical damage?

No, because there's also Spell Shield boosting spell resistance.

Both Spell Shield and the armor increase signs, are countered by people putting points into penetration signs, ignoring armor. The boost you get is also extremely minor, unless you're wearing heavy.

This while boosting your magic, poison or disase dmg 25% with Thaumaturge(templar+ NB), is balanced by the sign Hardy reducing that specific dmg taken with 25% when maxed.

Boosting your elemental dmg with 25% (sorc + DK), is balanced by the sign Elemental Defender, that reduces elemental dmg taken with 25%.

Boosting weapon dmg with 25% has no equivalent defensive sign. There's no way to mitigate that dmg using CP.

One might however argue that stamina based players needs to more dmg since they have less heals and shields. My stamplar will always be more squishy than my magicka templar, for example. Doesn't really matter how I build them.

Nifty2g · August 2015

eliisra wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

Isn't armor increase kinda equivalent to those? And reduces physical damage?

No, because there's also Spell Shield boosting spell resistance.

Both Spell Shield and the armor increase signs, are countered by people putting points into penetration signs, ignoring armor. The boost you get is also extremely minor, unless you're wearing heavy.

This while boosting your magic, poison or disase dmg 25% with Thaumaturge(templar+ NB), is balanced by the sign Hardy reducing that specific dmg taken with 25% when maxed.

Boosting your elemental dmg with 25% (sorc + DK), is balanced by the sign Elemental Defender, that reduces elemental dmg taken with 25%.

Boosting weapon dmg with 25% has no equivalent defensive sign. There's no way to mitigate that dmg using CP.

One might however argue that stamina based players needs to more dmg since they have less heals and shields. My stamplar will always be more squishy than my magicka templar, for example. Doesn't really matter how I build them.

They have access to class shields (minus nightblade) but slotting a shield and sword with maxed Mighty, Precise Strikes and Piercing you wont lose anything.
Vigor is now Assault Rank 5 and Repentance scales from your max stat, corrosive armor ignores 100% of your foes armor.