New camera view issues... make people feel sick

Xael · July 2015

Randomly while sneaking I will go into first person view. This is going to cause someone to have a seizure and it's hella annoying. In fact I hate it. If this continues I can't see myself playing anymore it's causing a headache.

Epona222 · July 2015

I think it is intended, there was something in the patch notes about preventing the camera from doing something in certain areas with close walls.

I HATE it though, I do not want to be forced into 1st person and it makes me feel motion-sick. I actually prefer it the way it was (apparently this is a 'fix')

Xael · July 2015

Epona222 wrote: »

I think it is intended, there was something in the patch notes about preventing the camera from doing something in certain areas with close walls.

I HATE it though, I do not want to be forced into 1st person and it makes me feel motion-sick. I actually prefer it the way it was (apparently this is a 'fix')

@ZOS_GinaBruno

This is no good.
A lot of delves force this, especially when sneaking. Imp City is a tight place in some spots also, I can't handle this. This is something unwanted like your lighting patch of 1.2.4 that broke the game for over a month. Please, take this out or make it optional. The above poster even feels motion sick.

Domander · July 2015

Yeah, hate it.

Epona222 · July 2015

Xael wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

I think it is intended, there was something in the patch notes about preventing the camera from doing something in certain areas with close walls.

I HATE it though, I do not want to be forced into 1st person and it makes me feel motion-sick. I actually prefer it the way it was (apparently this is a 'fix')

@ZOS_GinaBruno

This is no good.
A lot of delves force this, especially when sneaking. Imp City is a tight place in some spots also, I can't handle this. This is something unwanted like your lighting patch of 1.2.4 that broke the game for over a month. Please, take this out or make it optional. The above poster even feels motion sick.

Just making it a tick box somewhere in the settings section of the menu would be absolutely fine - they already have the previous way it was, they made a new way of doing it, just let players choose. Options are good

Same with the new targeting visuals - some people like it, other people hate it, just give people the choice.

xaraan · July 2015

Yeah, this is terrible and very disorienting. Nearly got me killed several times.

Xael · July 2015

Yeah I got wrecked by it last night in one of the districts we were pvping in. Considering a lot of veteran pvpers know about using terrain to their advantage, this zone (imp city) is going to be ping-ponging us constantly due to buildings and a lot of duck and cover weaving in and out of fights and dodging mobs.

Robbmrp · July 2015

Xael wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

I think it is intended, there was something in the patch notes about preventing the camera from doing something in certain areas with close walls.

I HATE it though, I do not want to be forced into 1st person and it makes me feel motion-sick. I actually prefer it the way it was (apparently this is a 'fix')

@ZOS_GinaBruno

This is no good.
A lot of delves force this, especially when sneaking. Imp City is a tight place in some spots also, I can't handle this. This is something unwanted like your lighting patch of 1.2.4 that broke the game for over a month. Please, take this out or make it optional. The above poster even feels motion sick.

My wife and I had to quit playing after two hours in IC last night as we both started getting a headache. I'm not sure if it was due to the camera changes or what exactly. It kinds of defeats the point of a MMO though if you can't play it for more than 2 hours at a time....

SeptimusDova · July 2015

Gives me a migraine can only test in short periods of time. Having survived one aneurysm I tend to pay an almost hyper vigilance to any sudden migranes. I cannot play like this for much longer.

ZOS_RyanRuzich · July 2015

~A wild dev appears~

Could you provide a video example of the particular problem you're encountering, and bring up the map (and zoom out) during the video either before or after the issue?

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

ZOS_RyanRuzich wrote: »

~A wild dev appears~

Could you provide a video example of the particular problem you're encountering, and bring up the map (and zoom out) during the video either before or after the issue?

@ZOS_RyanRuzich , I have been writing a feedback megapost along the lines of my 1.6 one, but this was one of the items on that list. I come from a dev background myself, so I'll write it up in a QA style for easy identification. EDIT: Also, I will grab a video with shadowplay for you in around 15-20 minutes and post a link to it on youtube afterwards.

The issue occurs whenever the camera view clips against an object, be it terrain or props, that brings the camera distance from the player in third-person view to the minimum, it will toggle it into first-person view mode (on the live server, this currently results in the camera remaining in third-person, and just clipping into your character, which then is culled out of the view frustum by the client). When you then move out of that angle, it automatically reverts to third-person mode, not only changing the FoV during the transition into first-person originally, but also as it pops back to third-person and then slowly pans back out to the original view distance a player had the camera set to. The net result is disorienting, irritating, and as you can imagine, interferes with combat quite a bit, especially when panning the camera using the middle-click function. It affects all areas in the game, however, not just the Imperial City.

Lorkhan · July 2015

ZOS_RyanRuzich wrote: »

~A wild dev appears~

Could you provide a video example of the particular problem you're encountering, and bring up the map (and zoom out) during the video either before or after the issue?

man. just try to walk in the IC sewer tunnels. the video you ask will be a funny one, coz all the map have this ***

@ZOS_RyanRuzich i dont know how to provide a video, man. im sry.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Lorkhan wrote: »

ZOS_RyanRuzich wrote: »

~A wild dev appears~

Could you provide a video example of the particular problem you're encountering, and bring up the map (and zoom out) during the video either before or after the issue?

man. just try to walk in the IC sewer tunnels. the video you ask will be a funny one, coz all the map have this ***

@ZOS_RyanRuzich i dont know how to provide a video, man. im sry.

I'll be doing one shortly, as mentioned

. I got sidetracked a moment by RL.

Aquanova · July 2015

The camera in 3rd person moves on its own. I put in a ticket about this bug/feature dunno which it is, don't care. Get ride of it please, gonna alot of us killed. I don't see the need for changes to the camera! Did anyone else?

Merlin13KAGL · July 2015

It's a close quarters thing. Especially in the twisting tunnels between rooms in sewers.

It's caused by your camera view being forced to zoom way the hell in so you don't find yourself looking at the backside of a wall.

Happens in other places too (Keeps, PvE with lots of ornamental/environmental stuff about (lose the friggin' hanging moss already, or make it go away with grass disable))

If you're hugging the wall, the camera basically has to zoom in to where you are, resulting in the first person view, even though you're technically in 3rd.

You can try to temp fix it by zooming in a little more than usual.

(If you think of your camera as a balloon that's tied to your back, when you enter an area like that, it has no other choice but to jam in there with you.) Some games either clip (bad for lots of reasons) or have a haze of translucence where the wall normally would be. (Think limited view X-ray vision)

The latter could be implemented without drawing any critters or enemies in the process, only letting you see what you actually can see, while still allowing you to see yourself in 3rd person.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Video is encoding now for upload. It doesn't actually leave you in third-person settings, either, just to note. It does a full transition to the first-person view including animations, Field of View settings, and mouse movement speed.

Xeniph · July 2015

Yes, this is a must change. Like I said in another post, it is driving me bonkers.

I played around with it for a while and it really only seems to happen when crouching or invisible.

Also as stated previously, I would rather see nothing but wall than go into first person mode, ever.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

@ZOS_RyanRuzich / @ZOS_GinaBruno / @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

A video demo of the 3rd-person camera/1st-person camera transitions, causes, and a quick movement demonstration at the end to show it clearly including a dodge roll near a housing object and prop, is now live here and embedded below:
http://youtu.be/htp1xox2ywA

http://youtu.be/htp1xox2ywA

Thanks for looking!

Roselle · July 2015

I have actually noticed this more after it's been pointed out. Seems when the cursor reticule is near the wall or object, it zooms in... Doesn't it still do this on live?

Xendyn · July 2015

Epona222 wrote: »

I think it is intended, there was something in the patch notes about preventing the camera from doing something in certain areas with close walls.

I HATE it though, I do not want to be forced into 1st person and it makes me feel motion-sick. I actually prefer it the way it was (apparently this is a 'fix')

I think this was to help with the camera problems with setting up seige in certain areas?
Might be easiest to disable it anywhere but the main Cyro map if that's true. That's the only place you can use seige anyway.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2015

@Roselle, most definitely.

Very annoying in places like Vet EH corridors, CoH where chains hang everywhere, even round three of VDSA/DSA with all the moss of the overhangs.

They likely won't do the X-ray thing, as they'd have to have more graphics that didn't look odd when exposed. (If you've ever fallen through the world - who hasn't, you know what I mean.)

ZOS_RyanRuzich · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ZOS_RyanRuzich wrote: »

~A wild dev appears~

Could you provide a video example of the particular problem you're encountering, and bring up the map (and zoom out) during the video either before or after the issue?

@ZOS_RyanRuzich , I have been writing a feedback megapost along the lines of my 1.6 one, but this was one of the items on that list. I come from a dev background myself, so I'll write it up in a QA style for easy identification. EDIT: Also, I will grab a video with shadowplay for you in around 15-20 minutes and post a link to it on youtube afterwards.

The issue occurs whenever the camera view clips against an object, be it terrain or props, that brings the camera distance from the player in third-person view to the minimum, it will toggle it into first-person view mode (on the live server, this currently results in the camera remaining in third-person, and just clipping into your character, which then is culled out of the view frustum by the client). When you then move out of that angle, it automatically reverts to third-person mode, not only changing the FoV during the transition into first-person originally, but also as it pops back to third-person and then slowly pans back out to the original view distance a player had the camera set to. The net result is disorienting, irritating, and as you can imagine, interferes with combat quite a bit, especially when panning the camera using the middle-click function. It affects all areas in the game, however, not just the Imperial City.

@Attorneyatlawl

(But in all seriousness, thank you. With camera bugs, they can be so situational that accurately trying to identify the exact problem without video can be..difficult. QA-style write ups with video is awesome.

Looking forward to the megathread, should provide a nice bounty of bugs.

)

Lorkhan wrote: »

ZOS_RyanRuzich wrote: »

~A wild dev appears~

Could you provide a video example of the particular problem you're encountering, and bring up the map (and zoom out) during the video either before or after the issue?

man. just try to walk in the IC sewer tunnels. the video you ask will be a funny one, coz all the map have this ***

@ZOS_RyanRuzich i dont know how to provide a video, man. im sry.

@Lorkhan - Don't worry about the video

Camera related bugs are sometimes very hard to accurately describe, but very quick to understand with video. Seeing what the problem is gets everyone on the exact same page, so that we don't go thinking the problem is some other camera behavior.

SeptimusDova · August 2015

Thanks for looking into this Ryan. As it is I am complete with any more testing of 1.7 this is the second day of my \Camera induced migraine. I shall be away for a few days recuperating.

Again thanks for the review of this issue.

Attorneyatlawl · August 2015

ZOS_RyanRuzich wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ZOS_RyanRuzich wrote: »

~A wild dev appears~

Could you provide a video example of the particular problem you're encountering, and bring up the map (and zoom out) during the video either before or after the issue?

@ZOS_RyanRuzich , I have been writing a feedback megapost along the lines of my 1.6 one, but this was one of the items on that list. I come from a dev background myself, so I'll write it up in a QA style for easy identification. EDIT: Also, I will grab a video with shadowplay for you in around 15-20 minutes and post a link to it on youtube afterwards.

The issue occurs whenever the camera view clips against an object, be it terrain or props, that brings the camera distance from the player in third-person view to the minimum, it will toggle it into first-person view mode (on the live server, this currently results in the camera remaining in third-person, and just clipping into your character, which then is culled out of the view frustum by the client). When you then move out of that angle, it automatically reverts to third-person mode, not only changing the FoV during the transition into first-person originally, but also as it pops back to third-person and then slowly pans back out to the original view distance a player had the camera set to. The net result is disorienting, irritating, and as you can imagine, interferes with combat quite a bit, especially when panning the camera using the middle-click function. It affects all areas in the game, however, not just the Imperial City.

[.center][.img]http://i.imgur.com/xbpM92x.jpg[./img][./center]
(snip!)

Camera related bugs are sometimes very hard to accurately describe, but very quick to understand with video. Seeing what the problem is gets everyone on the exact same page, so that we don't go thinking the problem is some other camera behavior.

Definitely, they are

. I'm glad the video and writeup were* helpful! I've actually found a surprisingly low number of bugs with anything more than low to moderately low severity on the PTS, so far, although I have found a couple of ones higher than that

! I won't forget to include all of those bug reports in the thread

.

*Edited by a sleepy Attorney for grammar.

Xael · August 2015

ZOS_RyanRuzich wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ZOS_RyanRuzich wrote: »

~A wild dev appears~

Could you provide a video example of the particular problem you're encountering, and bring up the map (and zoom out) during the video either before or after the issue?

@ZOS_RyanRuzich , I have been writing a feedback megapost along the lines of my 1.6 one, but this was one of the items on that list. I come from a dev background myself, so I'll write it up in a QA style for easy identification. EDIT: Also, I will grab a video with shadowplay for you in around 15-20 minutes and post a link to it on youtube afterwards.

The issue occurs whenever the camera view clips against an object, be it terrain or props, that brings the camera distance from the player in third-person view to the minimum, it will toggle it into first-person view mode (on the live server, this currently results in the camera remaining in third-person, and just clipping into your character, which then is culled out of the view frustum by the client). When you then move out of that angle, it automatically reverts to third-person mode, not only changing the FoV during the transition into first-person originally, but also as it pops back to third-person and then slowly pans back out to the original view distance a player had the camera set to. The net result is disorienting, irritating, and as you can imagine, interferes with combat quite a bit, especially when panning the camera using the middle-click function. It affects all areas in the game, however, not just the Imperial City.

@Attorneyatlawl (But in all seriousness, thank you. With camera bugs, they can be so situational that accurately trying to identify the exact problem without video can be..difficult. QA-style write ups with video is awesome. Looking forward to the megathread, should provide a nice bounty of bugs. )

Lorkhan wrote: »

ZOS_RyanRuzich wrote: »

~A wild dev appears~

Could you provide a video example of the particular problem you're encountering, and bring up the map (and zoom out) during the video either before or after the issue?

man. just try to walk in the IC sewer tunnels. the video you ask will be a funny one, coz all the map have this ***

@ZOS_RyanRuzich i dont know how to provide a video, man. im sry.

@Lorkhan - Don't worry about the video

Camera related bugs are sometimes very hard to accurately describe, but very quick to understand with video. Seeing what the problem is gets everyone on the exact same page, so that we don't go thinking the problem is some other camera behavior.

Please just have them remove this or make it optional. Like the lighting changes that broke the game for over a month (v1.2.4), players did not ask for this. I know several people, myself included, who will no longer play this game if this goes live.

@ZOS_RyanRuzich

Soleya · August 2015

@ZOS_RyanRuzich

Posted a video of the camera issue here:

https://youtu.be/Z_hpPULr0HY

The camera behaves quite differently when stealthed/crouched vs standing. I stealth a lot while playing, so it was really noticeable to me. It's nearly impossible for me to play unless I don't crouch at all.

Trayzard · August 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

@ZOS_RyanRuzich / @ZOS_GinaBruno / @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

A video demo of the 3rd-person camera/1st-person camera transitions, causes, and a quick movement demonstration at the end to show it clearly including a dodge roll near a housing object and prop, is now live here and embedded below:
http://youtu.be/htp1xox2ywA

http://youtu.be/htp1xox2ywA

Thanks for looking!

uhm? How is this a bug. It's in the game since release.
Pls dont change it, it's very useful. Or it least make it possible to still have this option.
And besides... you guys get motionsick because of a normal 1st person view? lol

Forztr · August 2015

PTS and live seem the same to me its just imperial city has more solid objects that can get between your character and the camera. If your cursor touches the object the camera zooms in so its in front of the object.

This is more pronounced in Imperial city when crouched because on average broken walls and street furniture are taller in imperial city than the rest of the game making it more likely on object will pass between your character and the camera.

Another point is that the cursor is always a set distance relative to your head so when you crouch you're effectively lowering the camera increasing the chance something gets in the way.

As someone who suffers from simulation sickness the best way for me to combat it is to stay zoomed out. Enclosed spaces with constant camera changes are a pain.

Two things that would help would be to design environments that weren't cluttered with objects that pass in front of the cursor and if I crouch the cursor remained positioned as if I was still standing, (effectively leaving a gap between head and cursor).

The Imperial City and sewers are never going to be a great place for people who suffer from motion sickness but those two things would help.

Menelaos · August 2015

I also tried to cover this in another thread as it literally drives me mad at times. There should be a 'don't force 1st person' camera setting or something. The more often this issue occurs the more irritated I get, downright to focus problems with my eyes.

Please amend!

Pudin · August 2015

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_RyanRuzich

Posted a video of the camera issue here:

https://youtu.be/Z_hpPULr0HY

The camera behaves quite differently when stealthed/crouched vs standing. I stealth a lot while playing, so it was really noticeable to me. It's nearly impossible for me to play unless I don't crouch at all.

I just had this problem right now. Its simple impossible to play with this thing. My head is going to explode!

This only happens with my Nightblade at the PTS... no idea how to fix it

ZOS_RyanRuzich · August 2015

Roselle wrote: »

I have actually noticed this more after it's been pointed out. Seems when the cursor reticule is near the wall or object, it zooms in... Doesn't it still do this on live?

@Roselle - It does, but the behavior on PTS appears to have a bug in it.

Xael wrote: »

Please just have them remove this or make it optional. Like the lighting changes that broke the game for over a month (v1.2.4), players did not ask for this. I know several people, myself included, who will no longer play this game if this goes live.

@ZOS_RyanRuzich

@Xael - It's a bug, fret not. This is why we put things on PTS, and why they live as long as they do on PTS. Thank you and your friends for helping us test and find bugs.

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_RyanRuzich

Posted a video of the camera issue here:

https://youtu.be/Z_hpPULr0HY

The camera behaves quite differently when stealthed/crouched vs standing. I stealth a lot while playing, so it was really noticeable to me. It's nearly impossible for me to play unless I don't crouch at all.

This is why we requested video...the issue in the above video is different than the one @Attorneyatlawl posted. Adding to the list to tackle

If people have other camera related bugs they've discovered, please post up videos if you can, and open up your map during the video. This allows us to recreate the bug and test the fix against the exact spot that was causing the bad behavior.