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Bolt Escape..............
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Troneon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A well known pvper was testing this on PTS yesterday and even with his crazy OP build he could only manage about 6+ bolts before running out completely...
Personally I think gap closers/escape skills should only be able to be used once or twice every minute or so. So you atleast have to be tactical about using them, not just spam them.
There is way too much skill spamming in ESO...Edited by Troneon on July 30, 2015 1:02PMPC EU ADMaster Crafter - Anything you need!!High Elf Magicka Templar Healer/DPS/TankTrials / Dungeons / PVP / Everything3 -
grumlins✭✭✭......About to kill a templar?! He burst heals himself to max health. . . .
......About to kill a nightblade?! He disappears and regens to max health. . . .
......About to kill a dragonknight?! He bashes you with his shield and kills you instead. . . .
This^^ people are acting like there isn't a cureall per class.4 -
JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.
Which may have some impact, but is missing the point. The problem is not with the cost, not with some N-th bolt escape. The problem is the second bolt escape immediately after the first. If a sorc pulls this off while fighting another class, he is out of combat and can simply walk away, or regen and try again (i.e. cancel fights he is about to lose and cherry pick fights he will win).
There needs to be cooldown, not increase in cost.
Magick Nightblades if built right can chase a bolting mage down on foot.
Frankly, these speedbuilds could stand a nerf as well, as they aim for the same combat reset meta by different (no bolt) means. I suspect NBs dominate the noob compaign at least in part precisely because it is possible to reach similar outcome with lower tier (and therefore more readily available) skills, compared to typical trollsorc build.1 -
Techlisp✭✭✭I usually bolt into the enemy and then do the beg for mercy emote.This post will not take you an unusually long time to read.
PS4. EU. EP.4 -
mrskinskull✭✭✭✭Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.
Which may have some impact, but is missing the point. The problem is not with the cost, not with some N-th bolt escape. The problem is the second bolt escape immediately after the first. If a sorc pulls this off while fighting another class, he is out of combat and can simply walk away, or regen and try again (i.e. cancel fights he is about to lose and cherry pick fights he will win).
There needs to be cooldown, not increase in cost.
Yeah even the night blade can only cloak for a min. The zerg will find you eventually.
Bolt escape seems to exhaust your enemies stamina as they sprint after you and weakens them for round 2.2 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »
So to be it seems almost every class can do something similar.
The difference is that BE is a multi-utility spell that:
Provides positional advantage
Effectively removes Sorc from combat to apply shield stack while absorbing all incoming projectiles <- only absorb spell projectiles but not destro heavy attacks - and opens you to hard hitting/ccing gap closers
works through all CC (no need to use stam except for blocking) nope the only cc types it "ignores are snares and roots wich are practically the same - every other cc form denys its usage
has AOE stun for controlling combat
has no effective counter <- any gapcloser, any non magica range attack, and any magica range attack if the sorc used streak wich will be more common thx to the destroying of BoL
DK standing in standard can be feared and beat down <- you cant fear him out of its standart if hes not *** as even with full walking range the standart radius is still bigger - good luck in trying to burst him down with the dmg reduction standarts aply to you...
NB can be revealed by AOE damage, dots, magelight, detection potion, flare
BE is and has been ridiculous in it's synergy and complements to Sorc skills. We'll see what happens after IC but I think the situation will be worse with a reduced ability to cut through their health before shields are applied. IMO ZoS has a love affair with sorcs and always has. BE definitely needs to be reworked. Less effective ball, less effective stun or new effects altogether would be a welcome change. I don't know what the answer is. If the exponential increase in magicka cost makes the spell useless then that also isn't a good solution IMO....we'll see.
so many flaws...
none the less i´m killing more sorcs than dks and templars combined as they are much easier to kill than those pesky bunkers when you have some burst. the changes done with 1.7 will make the few really good sorcs stronger as their healthpool will not be gone in a blink of an eye once you have depleted their shields .
Yessir!
And the people that are crying about Bolting do not understand that for the most part the Sorcs are squishy as heck. Unless played by skilled hands they are easy to kill! This "nerf" is NOT going to solve your issues if every sorc you meet can get away every time as you say...... Then you are doing it wrong!
Edited by Funkopotamus on July 30, 2015 10:23PMAnything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington1 -
Minnesinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭......About to kill a sorcerer?! He bolt escapes 100m away, stacks shields, regens to max health. . . . . . .
The class is all about maneuverability. Part of the fun is to escape away to lead some unsuspecting victims to their demise. It is not like sorcs are top-notch in close quarters. You just have to know when to charge after them. Because this same issues has been raised multiple times I don´t think it is necessary to repeat how to beat sorcs.A is for Atronach.
B is for Bungler's Bane.
C is for Comberry.1 -
jkemmery✭✭✭✭Funkopotamus wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »
So to be it seems almost every class can do something similar.
The difference is that BE is a multi-utility spell that:
Provides positional advantage
Effectively removes Sorc from combat to apply shield stack while absorbing all incoming projectiles <- only absorb spell projectiles but not destro heavy attacks - and opens you to hard hitting/ccing gap closers
works through all CC (no need to use stam except for blocking) nope the only cc types it "ignores are snares and roots wich are practically the same - every other cc form denys its usage
has AOE stun for controlling combat
has no effective counter <- any gapcloser, any non magica range attack, and any magica range attack if the sorc used streak wich will be more common thx to the destroying of BoL
DK standing in standard can be feared and beat down <- you cant fear him out of its standart if hes not *** as even with full walking range the standart radius is still bigger - good luck in trying to burst him down with the dmg reduction standarts aply to you...
NB can be revealed by AOE damage, dots, magelight, detection potion, flare
BE is and has been ridiculous in it's synergy and complements to Sorc skills. We'll see what happens after IC but I think the situation will be worse with a reduced ability to cut through their health before shields are applied. IMO ZoS has a love affair with sorcs and always has. BE definitely needs to be reworked. Less effective ball, less effective stun or new effects altogether would be a welcome change. I don't know what the answer is. If the exponential increase in magicka cost makes the spell useless then that also isn't a good solution IMO....we'll see.
so many flaws...
none the less i´m killing more sorcs than dks and templars combined as they are much easier to kill than those pesky bunkers when you have some burst. the changes done with 1.7 will make the few really good sorcs stronger as their healthpool will not be gone in a blink of an eye once you have depleted their shields .
Yessir!
And the people that are crying about Bolting do not understand that for the most part the Sorcs are squishy as heck. Unless played by skilled hands they are easy to kill! This "nerf" is NOT going to solve your issues if every sorc you meat can get away every time as you say...... Then you are doing it wrong!
Really? You must be forgetting about shield stacking. I've critical rushed a sorc bolting away 5 times in a row and barely did any damage to him before giving up. He then turned and crystal fragged me. I didn't die and by then friends arrived and he bolted away from them0 -
Sneaky-Snurr✭✭✭✭✭I do believe BE is just a tad OP because of its capabilities:
1) Deals damage
2) Hard CC.
3) Adds distance by a considerable amount (i. to escape. ii. to regen and resume combat)
Unlike any other class abilities, BE is just OP compared to other class's defensive abilities. State any Class Abilities that provide the same benefits as BE does (as shown above). I bet you can't name any as there is none. The only skill that is similar (but doesn't come anywhere near) to BE is Magnum Shot and that is just a Weapon skill. Plus, MS effects can't be applied over and over to attempt a successful escape as you have to be in range to execute the ability.
I've never asked for a nerf but I feel that BE actually needs one. The removal of 1) or 2) given in the first paragraph would put BE on par with other defensive/escaping class abilities. I personally have no problems whatsoever with BE's escaping distance. It's just that the skill offers waay too much benefits. Not one Sorc leaves the skill out just like NBs with cloak (even though cloak is broken). It is just essential to their survival so essentially, I'm not asking to remove BE whatsoever. Just a request to tone it down by a bit. It's not like it'll be useless to Sorcs should the nerf I suggested is implemented.......About to kill a templar?! He burst heals himself to max health. . . .
......About to kill a nightblade?! He disappears and regens to max health. . . .
......About to kill a dragonknight?! He bashes you with his shield and kills you instead. . . .
@Sleep Only problem is that cloak is broken and it still is in 2.1 (as tested in PTS) and it is most likely to not ever get a fix. Ever. Thus, rendering cloak to be sub-par compared to what it can actually provide in its full potential. Again, ZOS didn't fix what they have promised. It's barely a surprise nowadays. I just hope it gets fixed by the time 2.1 goes live.Edited by Sneaky-Snurr on July 30, 2015 10:54PMThe Order of the Shadows: Nightmare-
EP CP810 Nightblade
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AD CP810 Templar
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AD CP810 Dragon Knight
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AD Lvl 25 Sorceror
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DC Lvl 23 Nightblade
Shadow hide you. -Unknown
There is no clean fight in a war. -Shun Izaki1 -
OzJohnD✭✭✭✭
because sorcerers are screwed *sigh*Everyone knows the phenomenon of trying to hold your breath underwater - how at first it's alright and you can handle it, and then as it gets closer and closer to the time when you must breathe, how urgent the need becomes, the lust and the hunger to breathe. And then the panic sets in when you begin to think that you won't be able to breathe - and finally, when you take in air and the anxiety subsides...that's what it's like to be a vampire and need blood.
Francis Ford Coppola - BS Dracula: The Film and the Legend1 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »I do believe BE is just a tad OP because of its capabilities:
1) Deals damage
2) Hard CC.
3) Adds distance by a considerable amount (i. to escape. ii. to regen and resume combat)
It never does all this at once. Only Streak does damage, and even then you either do damage or add distance... not even considerable unless you bolt 3+ times.
Speaking of weapon skills, your list is pretty much in line with what BE counters do:
Shield Charge:
1) Deals damage
2) Hard CC
3) Closes distance
Critical Charge:
1) Deals damage
2) Snare or more damage
3) Closes distance
Sure these skills need a target, but that's exactly what a cooldown on BE would solve. You'd have time to react and charge.
EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws1 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.
Which may have some impact, but is missing the point. The problem is not with the cost, not with some N-th bolt escape. The problem is the second bolt escape immediately after the first. If a sorc pulls this off while fighting another class, he is out of combat and can simply walk away, or regen and try again (i.e. cancel fights he is about to lose and cherry pick fights he will win).
There needs to be cooldown, not increase in cost.
Magick Nightblades if built right can chase a bolting mage down on foot.
anyone able to press their right mousebutton while gapclosing is able to tear a sorc another hole into their backs...spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
Sneaky-Snurr✭✭✭✭✭Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »I do believe BE is just a tad OP because of its capabilities:
1) Deals damage
2) Hard CC.
3) Adds distance by a considerable amount (i. to escape. ii. to regen and resume combat)
It never does all this at once. Only Streak does damage, and even then you either do damage or add distance... not even considerable unless you bolt 3+ times.
Speaking of weapon skills, your list is pretty much in line with what BE counters do:
Shield Charge:
1) Deals damage
2) Hard CC
3) Closes distance
Critical Charge:
1) Deals damage
2) Snare or more damage
3) Closes distance
Sure these skills need a target, but that's exactly what a cooldown on BE would solve. You'd have time to react and charge.
@Merlight Shield Charge and Critical Charge are not by any means escape skills. Those are gap closers. I'm talking about escape skills my dear friend. And yes my mistake, it was supposed to be Streak not BE. Let me rectify my last post. I apologise for the confusion.
Actually, it does add a significant amount of distance. It only takes a Sorc exactly 2 bolts to be out of range of all attacks. Let me explain to you how this is possible;
-A Sorc streaks past through opponent X -> X is hard CC-ed and Sorc continues his/her 2nd streak -> X breaks free but the Sorc is out of range of attacking by the time X does so.
I do agree whole-heartedly on the cooldown suggestion though. That itself will render my nerf suggestions (removal of 1) or 2)) nullified. A big thumbs up to that.The Order of the Shadows: Nightmare-
EP CP810 Nightblade
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AD CP810 Templar
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AD CP810 Dragon Knight
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AD Lvl 25 Sorceror
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DC Lvl 23 Nightblade
Shadow hide you. -Unknown
There is no clean fight in a war. -Shun Izaki0 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭
[/quote]ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
WAIT, WAIT!!!! Help!
Does this mean that my DARK CLOAK DOT remover will not work? That seems kinda broke. I can see being detected, but to nerf the DOT remover from the morph seems bad.
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OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭0 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭......About to kill a templar?! He burst heals himself to max health. . . .
......About to kill a nightblade?! He disappears and regens to max health. . . .
......About to kill a dragonknight?! He bashes you with his shield and kills you instead. . . .
Get real, templar heals in 1v1 PVP are a joke, you can not out heal DPS in PVP, the time to kill is so fast that healing in PVP 1v1 is the worst thing a player can do.
HEALS are pointless 1v1 PVP and anyone thinking otherwise is seriously being foolish. I am not talking potions BTW just skill heals.
Edited by Skwor on July 31, 2015 9:51PM0 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.
So each cast will cost 50% more if used within 4 seconds and it will just keep increasing...
http://esoacademy.com/news/update-7-patch-notes-summary/#update-7-skills-changes
Will this be the third or fourth nerf/rework of bolt escape since beta? I forget now. Seems like ZOS doesn't really know what to do.1 -
Xendyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OrangeTheCat wrote: »Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.
So each cast will cost 50% more if used within 4 seconds and it will just keep increasing...
http://esoacademy.com/news/update-7-patch-notes-summary/#update-7-skills-changes
Will this be the third or fourth nerf/rework of bolt escape since beta? I forget now. Seems like ZOS doesn't really know what to do.
I know what to do!
All us sorcs need to just go lay down in front of enemy players so they can beat us to death at their leisure.
Seems to be the only way to make them happy.Lag is ruinin' my 'mershun!
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance - Socrates
Member of the Old Guard, keepers of the game's history
PC/NA4 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭AlOrangeTheCat wrote: »Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.
So each cast will cost 50% more if used within 4 seconds and it will just keep increasing...
http://esoacademy.com/news/update-7-patch-notes-summary/#update-7-skills-changes
Will this be the third or fourth nerf/rework of bolt escape since beta? I forget now. Seems like ZOS doesn't really know what to do.
I know what to do!
All us sorcs need to just go lay down in front of enemy players so they can beat us to death at their leisure.
Seems to be the only way to make them happy.
That is really what these people want.
Thing is, even with this 3rd/4th (?) nerf to BE, sorcs will still be killing.
I predict shortly after the update, the same ol' whingers will be back on the forums crying about sorcs-- still refusing to learn to play and instead expounding sorcs are "OP."
Disabling the grass may improve performance.3 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭......About to kill a templar?! He burst heals himself to max health. . . .
......About to kill a nightblade?! He disappears and regens to max health. . . .
......About to kill a dragonknight?! He bashes you with his shield and kills you instead. . . .
This^^ people are acting like there isn't a cureall per class.
Get a clue, a templar can not heal thru jack**** 1v1, there is no templar cureallEdited by Skwor on July 31, 2015 9:50PM0 -
ItsRejectz✭✭✭✭✭Guess op is a templar or dkXbox EU - GT: o69 Woody 69o
VR16 Sorc: Vlad V Impaler
VR16 Sorc: Yes it's Woody
VR16 NB: Prince of Wallachia
VR16 Templar: Sir Lancelot the Brave
VR16 DK: I'm Better Than You0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »I do believe BE is just a tad OP because of its capabilities:
1) Deals damage
2) Hard CC.
3) Adds distance by a considerable amount (i. to escape. ii. to regen and resume combat)
Unlike any other class abilities, BE is just OP compared to other class's defensive abilities. State any Class Abilities that provide the same benefits as BE does (as shown above). I bet you can't name any as there is none. The only skill that is similar (but doesn't come anywhere near) to BE is Magnum Shot and that is just a Weapon skill. Plus, MS effects can't be applied over and over to attempt a successful escape as you have to be in range to execute the ability.
I've never asked for a nerf but I feel that BE actually needs one. The removal of 1) or 2) given in the first paragraph would put BE on par with other defensive/escaping class abilities. I personally have no problems whatsoever with BE's escaping distance. It's just that the skill offers waay too much benefits. Not one Sorc leaves the skill out just like NBs with cloak (even though cloak is broken). It is just essential to their survival so essentially, I'm not asking to remove BE whatsoever. Just a request to tone it down by a bit. It's not like it'll be useless to Sorcs should the nerf I suggested is implemented.......About to kill a templar?! He burst heals himself to max health. . . .
......About to kill a nightblade?! He disappears and regens to max health. . . .
......About to kill a dragonknight?! He bashes you with his shield and kills you instead. . . .
@Sleep Only problem is that cloak is broken and it still is in 2.1 (as tested in PTS) and it is most likely to not ever get a fix. Ever. Thus, rendering cloak to be sub-par compared to what it can actually provide in its full potential. Again, ZOS didn't fix what they have promised. It's barely a surprise nowadays. I just hope it gets fixed by the time 2.1 goes live.
You forgot to add BE offers a stamina free continued mobility despite roots and snares....just saying.
good post.0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »I do believe BE is just a tad OP because of its capabilities:
1) Deals damage
2) Hard CC.
3) Adds distance by a considerable amount (i. to escape. ii. to regen and resume combat)
Unlike any other class abilities, BE is just OP compared to other class's defensive abilities. State any Class Abilities that provide the same benefits as BE does (as shown above). I bet you can't name any as there is none. The only skill that is similar (but doesn't come anywhere near) to BE is Magnum Shot and that is just a Weapon skill. Plus, MS effects can't be applied over and over to attempt a successful escape as you have to be in range to execute the ability.
I've never asked for a nerf but I feel that BE actually needs one. The removal of 1) or 2) given in the first paragraph would put BE on par with other defensive/escaping class abilities. I personally have no problems whatsoever with BE's escaping distance. It's just that the skill offers waay too much benefits. Not one Sorc leaves the skill out just like NBs with cloak (even though cloak is broken). It is just essential to their survival so essentially, I'm not asking to remove BE whatsoever. Just a request to tone it down by a bit. It's not like it'll be useless to Sorcs should the nerf I suggested is implemented.......About to kill a templar?! He burst heals himself to max health. . . .
......About to kill a nightblade?! He disappears and regens to max health. . . .
......About to kill a dragonknight?! He bashes you with his shield and kills you instead. . . .
@Sleep Only problem is that cloak is broken and it still is in 2.1 (as tested in PTS) and it is most likely to not ever get a fix. Ever. Thus, rendering cloak to be sub-par compared to what it can actually provide in its full potential. Again, ZOS didn't fix what they have promised. It's barely a surprise nowadays. I just hope it gets fixed by the time 2.1 goes live.
You forgot to add BE offers a stamina free continued mobility despite roots and snares....just saying.
good post.
As if stamina users haven't had their own special advantages throughout 1.6. lol
Not to mention, the nirn armor bug and the fact that the CP system favors stamina builds over magicka.
Disabling the grass may improve performance.1 -
Azalin76✭✭✭Lol sorcs are gonna die ALOT in U7. Shields nerfed by 50%, meaning if you have a 15k shield it'll only be 7.5k in pvp, that ontop of only having 16k health or maybe 20k if you've managed it will make sorcs very weak. 7.5k shield +16k health is nothing in pvp. Especially when people are spamming 10k snipes. Pointless going stamina based as sorc is the worst stam based class in the game.
As for the OP literally all you have to do is keep CC on a sorc, he'll either run out of stamina fast so you can perma stun him or die. So he can get away from a fight, get his bearings and then come back ready for another round, so what? EVERY person would do the same in a situation where he's losing.
But they are also nerfing damage done by 50% so that 10k snipe becomes only 5k0 -
sagitter✭✭✭✭✭bolt escape it's not so op, the real issue with sorcs is 15-20k hardened ward and stacking it with healing ward around 25-30k of shields, with high magicka regen that allows to spam shields and be offensive at same time, almost impossible to kill 1 vs 1 this kind of sorc,expecially if it's a good player in the current patch.1 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭bolt escape it's not so op, the real issue with sorcs is 15-20k hardened ward and stacking it with healing ward around 25-30k of shields, with high magicka regen that allows to spam shields and be offensive at same time, almost impossible to kill 1 vs 1 this kind of sorc,expecially if it's a good player in the current patch.
Your numbers are so off they're quite laughable.
Unless you're talking about a few known exploiters who happen to play sorcs..
Disabling the grass may improve performance.2 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭......About to kill a templar?! He burst heals himself to max health. . . .
......About to kill a nightblade?! He disappears and regens to max health. . . .
......About to kill a dragonknight?! He bashes you with his shield and kills you instead. . . .
This^^ people are acting like there isn't a cureall per class.
Get a clue, a templar can not heal thru jack**** 1v1, there is no templar cureall
Only people arguing against this nerf are those that were taking advantage of this skill. Simply enough those playing Sorc and werent using it to trollololol pvp fights will continue on like nothing changed.
By trying to draw Templars, Nightblades and DKs into this theyre trying to change the subject and make it seem as if Sorcs are now powerless and everyone else are the OP classes.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax1 -
LameoveR✭✭✭✭The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Sorcs now not so much OP than before.Edited by LameoveR on August 1, 2015 1:57AM0
