Maintenance for the week of April 13:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 13
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 13
Bolt Escape..............
Ducere
✭
......About to kill a sorcerer?! He bolt escapes 100m away, stacks shields, regens to max health. . . . . . .
"Your concept of me doesn't change anything, but my concept of you."
- I am not a ESO Pro Grinder:
- Ducere, DK VR1
- Beasial, Sorc 29
- Vocere, NB 38
3
-
OzJohnD✭✭✭✭yep ... nerf bolts !
Everyone knows the phenomenon of trying to hold your breath underwater - how at first it's alright and you can handle it, and then as it gets closer and closer to the time when you must breathe, how urgent the need becomes, the lust and the hunger to breathe. And then the panic sets in when you begin to think that you won't be able to breathe - and finally, when you take in air and the anxiety subsides...that's what it's like to be a vampire and need blood.
Francis Ford Coppola - BS Dracula: The Film and the Legend8 -
Mos-De-Atmo✭✭✭They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.
So each cast will cost 50% more if used within 4 seconds and it will just keep increasing...
http://esoacademy.com/news/update-7-patch-notes-summary/#update-7-skills-changesEdited by Mos-De-Atmo on July 30, 2015 5:19AMESO Academy - Up To Date Info, Guides and Tips For The Elder Scrolls Online
- ESO Skills
- ESO Item Sets
- ESO Builds4 -
JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.
Which may have some impact, but is missing the point. The problem is not with the cost, not with some N-th bolt escape. The problem is the second bolt escape immediately after the first. If a sorc pulls this off while fighting another class, he is out of combat and can simply walk away, or regen and try again (i.e. cancel fights he is about to lose and cherry pick fights he will win).
There needs to be cooldown, not increase in cost.7 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭......About to kill a sorcerer?! He bolt escapes 100m away, stacks shields, regens to max health. . . . . . .
Yeah, it is very annoying. I can never kill a sorc not even a V1 because of that
But.... I am a NB. MOST of the times I can also just cast WARD, then cloak and run away using Dark stalker passive and double take.. plop, full health and back in business. And this will be even better in 1.7 when detect potions don't work on me cloak. even if stamina build you can cast unlimited vigor if you have that. even in stealth you can cast vigor without popping out of stealth.
DK's just stand in their banner and pop their green dragons blood orwhatever it is called while flapping their wings and nobody comes close.
Templars just seem to run never out of health unless caught off guard.
So to be it seems almost every class can do something similar.٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."10 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭yep ... nerf bolts !
why do you illustrate screws than?
thats what bolts look like:
spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"6 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I wonder what he would portrait then when it was "Bolts and nuts"٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."1 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Because clearly a nerfed bolt is a screw. I got it.GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.2 -
Kammakazi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.
So each cast will cost 50% more if used within 4 seconds and it will just keep increasing...
http://esoacademy.com/news/update-7-patch-notes-summary/#update-7-skills-changes
But each cast already is 50% more after each consecutive cast? (I'm on console)1 -
Sleep✭✭✭✭......About to kill a templar?! He burst heals himself to max health. . . .
......About to kill a nightblade?! He disappears and regens to max health. . . .
......About to kill a dragonknight?! He bashes you with his shield and kills you instead. . . .3 -
Sleep✭✭✭✭......About to kill a templar?! He burst heals himself to max health. . . .
......About to kill a nightblade?! He disappears and regens to max health. . . .
......About to kill a dragonknight?! He bashes you with his shield and kills you instead. . . .6 -
Flaminir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ok... so 100metres away you say? That's 7 bolts...
1st Bolt: 3k magicka cost (Approx)
2nd: 4.5k
3rd: 6k
4th: 7.5k
5th: 10k
6th: 12.5k
7th: 15k
58.5k total magicka cost. (How many Sorcs you know with that kind of mana pool just out of interest? I'm not sure I've ever seen it myself).
And that's best case scenario assuming the stacking is from the base cost and not from the previous activation.
Obviously I'm taking your flippant comment very literally here with the 100 metres thing... but I'm making a point.... with the stacking an average sorc will likely get 2 to 3 bolts at most when they need it.
Sorcs rarely start bolting away at full magicka, so the new changes will cripple the use of the skill to 'Escape'. It'll become a repositioner mid fight, that's about it. And with the double nerf of the ball only lasting 1.5 seconds its even worse.
Methinks a lot of people will go back to Streak.Edited by Flaminir on July 30, 2015 8:55AMGM of the Unholy LegacyPC/EU/EP1 -
Azurulia✭✭✭yep ... nerf bolts !
Top is a nut stacking bolt.
Bottom is clearly screwed.
Edited by Azurulia on July 30, 2015 9:03AMCriminal Scum:
50 Breton Templar Healer: Olivine Azshara | 42 Orc Dragonknight Tank: Olivine Claremont | 50 Kahjiit Safe Cracker: Cracks-The-Safes | 50 Kahjiit Serial Killer: Cereal-The-Killer <Current Bounty: 1,231,318 gold>
"Whoever said crime doesn't pay clearly hasn't met Azu." -@Sloris1 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭You havent obviously seen a group of teleport sorc gankers working together. I think this nerf was deserved.Edited by Sausage on July 30, 2015 9:04AM1 -
Kammakazi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ok... so 100metres away you say? That's 7 bolts...
1st Bolt: 3k magicka cost (Approx)
2nd: 4.5k
3rd: 6k
4th: 7.5k
5th: 10k
6th: 12.5k
7th: 15k
58.5k total magicka cost. (How many Sorcs you know with that kind of mana pool just out of interest? I'm not sure I've ever seen it myself).
And that's best case scenario assuming the stacking is from the base cost and not from the previous activation.
Obviously I'm taking your flippant comment very literally here with the 100 metres thing... but I'm making a point.... with the stacking an average sorc will likely get 2 to 3 bolts at most when they need it.
Sorcs rarely start bolting away at full magicka, so the new changes will cripple the use of the skill to 'Escape'. It'll become a repositioner mid fight, that's about it. And with the double nerf of the ball only lasting 1.5 seconds its even worse.
Methinks a lot of people will go back to Streak.
Your numbers are off but a good sorc will never blink away that many times in quick succession. They'd blink maybe 3-4 times, wait 4 seconds then cast again.0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Knootewoot wrote: »
So to be it seems almost every class can do something similar.
The difference is that BE is a multi-utility spell that:
Provides positional advantage
Effectively removes Sorc from combat to apply shield stack while absorbing all incoming projectiles
works through all CC (no need to use stam except for blocking)
has AOE stun for controlling combat
has no effective counter
DK standing in standard can be feared and beat down
NB can be revealed by AOE damage, dots, magelight, detection potion, flare
BE is and has been ridiculous in it's synergy and complements to Sorc skills. We'll see what happens after IC but I think the situation will be worse with a reduced ability to cut through their health before shields are applied. IMO ZoS has a love affair with sorcs and always has. BE definitely needs to be reworked. Less effective ball, less effective stun or new effects altogether would be a welcome change. I don't know what the answer is. If the exponential increase in magicka cost makes the spell useless then that also isn't a good solution IMO....we'll see.0 -
Robotmafia✭✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »......About to kill a sorcerer?! He bolt escapes 100m away, stacks shields, regens to max health. . . . . . .
Yeah, it is very annoying. I can never kill a sorc not even a V1 because of that
But.... I am a NB. MOST of the times I can also just cast WARD, then cloak and run away using Dark stalker passive and double take.. plop, full health and back in business. And this will be even better in 1.7 when detect potions don't work on me cloak. even if stamina build you can cast unlimited vigor if you have that. even in stealth you can cast vigor without popping out of stealth.
DK's just stand in their banner and pop their green dragons blood orwhatever it is called while flapping their wings and nobody comes close.
Templars just seem to run never out of health unless caught off guard.
So to be it seems almost every class can do something similar.
gina commented in the PTS patch notes, further down after the responses that the potions will still see you with cloak onZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Robot Who Owes Money: Look into your hard drive and open your mercy file!
Donbot: File not found.
EU/PC0 -
iTzStevey✭✭✭Lol sorcs are gonna die ALOT in U7. Shields nerfed by 50%, meaning if you have a 15k shield it'll only be 7.5k in pvp, that ontop of only having 16k health or maybe 20k if you've managed it will make sorcs very weak. 7.5k shield +16k health is nothing in pvp. Especially when people are spamming 10k snipes. Pointless going stamina based as sorc is the worst stam based class in the game.
As for the OP literally all you have to do is keep CC on a sorc, he'll either run out of stamina fast so you can perma stun him or die. So he can get away from a fight, get his bearings and then come back ready for another round, so what? EVERY person would do the same in a situation where he's losing.2 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Knootewoot wrote: »
So to be it seems almost every class can do something similar.
The difference is that BE is a multi-utility spell that:
Provides positional advantage
Effectively removes Sorc from combat to apply shield stack while absorbing all incoming projectiles <- only absorb spell projectiles but not destro heavy attacks - and opens you to hard hitting/ccing gap closers
works through all CC (no need to use stam except for blocking) nope the only cc types it "ignores are snares and roots wich are practically the same - every other cc form denys its usage
has AOE stun for controlling combat
has no effective counter <- any gapcloser, any non magica range attack, and any magica range attack if the sorc used streak wich will be more common thx to the destroying of BoL
DK standing in standard can be feared and beat down <- you cant fear him out of its standart if hes not *** as even with full walking range the standart radius is still bigger - good luck in trying to burst him down with the dmg reduction standarts aply to you...
NB can be revealed by AOE damage, dots, magelight, detection potion, flare
BE is and has been ridiculous in it's synergy and complements to Sorc skills. We'll see what happens after IC but I think the situation will be worse with a reduced ability to cut through their health before shields are applied. IMO ZoS has a love affair with sorcs and always has. BE definitely needs to be reworked. Less effective ball, less effective stun or new effects altogether would be a welcome change. I don't know what the answer is. If the exponential increase in magicka cost makes the spell useless then that also isn't a good solution IMO....we'll see.
so many flaws...
none the less i´m killing more sorcs than dks and templars combined as they are much easier to kill than those pesky bunkers when you have some burst. the changes done with 1.7 will make the few really good sorcs stronger as their healthpool will not be gone in a blink of an eye once you have depleted their shields.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
Flaminir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ok... so 100metres away you say? That's 7 bolts...
1st Bolt: 3k magicka cost (Approx)
2nd: 4.5k
3rd: 6k
4th: 7.5k
5th: 10k
6th: 12.5k
7th: 15k
58.5k total magicka cost. (How many Sorcs you know with that kind of mana pool just out of interest? I'm not sure I've ever seen it myself).
And that's best case scenario assuming the stacking is from the base cost and not from the previous activation.
Obviously I'm taking your flippant comment very literally here with the 100 metres thing... but I'm making a point.... with the stacking an average sorc will likely get 2 to 3 bolts at most when they need it.
Sorcs rarely start bolting away at full magicka, so the new changes will cripple the use of the skill to 'Escape'. It'll become a repositioner mid fight, that's about it. And with the double nerf of the ball only lasting 1.5 seconds its even worse.
Methinks a lot of people will go back to Streak.
Your numbers are off but a good sorc will never blink away that many times in quick succession. They'd blink maybe 3-4 times, wait 4 seconds then cast again.
Everybody will have a slightly different base cost depending on their setup.... 3k is a reasonable approximation as a starting point. Then 50% stacking each time from this base cost...
Of course if this is stacking based on the cost of the previous cast rather than base cost then the values will be even higher.
& you slightly missed the point..... the point was to illustrate rough figures for an average setup to show that its not going to be possible to bolt away & escape in most cases. Stam builds just run you down within a couple of bolts.... and 2-3 bolts is all most people are now going to get.
GM of the Unholy LegacyPC/EU/EP1 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Something went wrong
Edited by Knootewoot on July 30, 2015 10:39AM٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."0 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Ah to bad
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Flaminir , his numbers are at least as accurate as the OP's. (100m, eh, OP?)
It's the shortest 'gap closer' in the game, and why, from the safety of his 1000m vantage would he need to stack shields at that point?
I mean, from 10,000m, he's pretty well safe, right?
I say we nerf the OP. OP must be OP to scare a sorc that far that fast.
@Vizier , synergy with Sorc skills (really? Disintegrate + spell power joke bonus?)Knootewoot wrote: »
So to be it seems almost every class can do something similar.
The difference is that BE is a multi-utility spell that:
Provides positional advantage
Effectively removes Sorc from combat to apply shield stack while absorbing all incoming projectiles
works through all CC (no need to use stam except for blocking)
has AOE stun for controlling combat
has no effective counter
DK standing in standard can be feared and beat down
NB can be revealed by AOE damage, dots, magelight, detection potion, flare
BE is and has been ridiculous in it's synergy and complements to Sorc skills. We'll see what happens after IC but I think the situation will be worse with a reduced ability to cut through their health before shields are applied. IMO ZoS has a love affair with sorcs and always has. BE definitely needs to be reworked. Less effective ball, less effective stun or new effects altogether would be a welcome change. I don't know what the answer is. If the exponential increase in magicka cost makes the spell useless then that also isn't a good solution IMO....we'll see.
Less effective stun? All 1.5 seconds of it?
With the update, the orbs last about 1/4 as long and the cost goes through the roof.
Every class has access to CC. Not every class has access to fear (unless someone wants to run in and synergize Webs in the middle of that DK's standard), so that's not exactly a prime example.
They've reworked a lot of stuff in the major - go to the PTS and check it out or check the notes. They've adjusted a lot of things that needed adjusting, both up and down, and several that actually make sense.
But this:
ZoS has a love affair with sorcs and always has.
This, by far, is my favorite part. :'( *LoL button, how I miss you so.*
This thread, like the 50 before it involves exaggeration, specialized builds, and a whole lot of L2P.Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS2 -
Flaminir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ok.... so I was working those numbers off the top of my head... just logged in to check, and its a fraction under 2k per cast at base for me.
Bearing in mind that's with 250 CP, and a lot of cost reduction glyphs etc..... so actually my original 3k estimate will still have been pretty close to the mark for a lot of people & I did say the costs would depend on your build/setup.
SO for me, assuming its scaling from base (& I haven't been on PTS yet to confirm.... if its from the previous cast then we really are screwed) this will scale (Approximately... remember its going to cost different amounts depending on your exact build):
Cast / Cost / Cumulative total
1st / 2k / 2k
2nd / 3k / 5k
3rd / 4k / 9k
4th / 5k / 14k
5th / 6k / 20k
Its basically adding an extra 1k cost cumulatively to each bolt.
Personally I'm planning on going with Streak now..... Bolt escape doesn't feel very 'escapey' anymore on paper... given the close quarter fighting I'm planning on going all out attack instead!
Edited by Flaminir on July 30, 2015 12:20PMGM of the Unholy LegacyPC/EU/EP1 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.
Which may have some impact, but is missing the point. The problem is not with the cost, not with some N-th bolt escape. The problem is the second bolt escape immediately after the first. If a sorc pulls this off while fighting another class, he is out of combat and can simply walk away, or regen and try again (i.e. cancel fights he is about to lose and cherry pick fights he will win).
There needs to be cooldown, not increase in cost.
Which means he is no longer defending the keep you are supposed to be attacking.
And if you are also adapting to the meta of stacking Nirnhoned, then his attacks are hitting you like wet noodles.
How about we not request to balance the game around your play styles.
3 -
Pman85✭✭✭✭crit rush cannot be out run by bolt escape nor pera-rolls. =DGuildmaster - Order of Stendarr [XB1] - Apply today!
Brought to you by Fishy Joe's....Ride the walrus!1 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The destruction of Ball of Lightning is enough tbh, now "escaping" sorcs can be hit a lot better. The 1,5s (buggy) lightning ball will absorb 1-2 attacks at most and is easily countered by any stamina based ability. Streak also has enough counters, all gap closers make the range of Streak pretty much useless. All classes both magicka and stamina builds have access to gap closers, except sorcs but they have bolt escape. So each class has the tools to respond when an enemy players uses bolt escape, its just a matter of setting up your build accordingly.
Edit: does anyone have test results of the cost increase for casting bolt escape multiple times in a row while being in combat? Im curious if it stacks based of the initial cost (lineair increase) or if it stacks based of the previous cost (exponential increase).Edited by Septimus_Magna on July 30, 2015 12:58PMPC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
Baronh2o✭✭✭Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.
Which may have some impact, but is missing the point. The problem is not with the cost, not with some N-th bolt escape. The problem is the second bolt escape immediately after the first. If a sorc pulls this off while fighting another class, he is out of combat and can simply walk away, or regen and try again (i.e. cancel fights he is about to lose and cherry pick fights he will win).
There needs to be cooldown, not increase in cost.
Magick Nightblades if built right can chase a bolting mage down on foot.
"Not all who wander are lost." - Tolkien0
