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[Request for Clarification] Usage of addons that perform multiple actions out of combat

Leandor
Leandor
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Dear support team,

please do not lock this topic on pretense of CoC violation. I, as a player using addons to modify the UI to suit my aesthetic needs, am just asking for clarification on the endorsement of a certain type of addons.

The addons I am referring to are those that allow menial tasks out of combat to be "convenienced" by automating it. Here, we are talking about tidying up a guild bank (Roomba's functionality to automatically stack things in guild bank), consumables crafting (Multicraft's functionality to allow the crafting of stacks of consumables without having to individually activate each process) or equipment changes (Outfitter's functionality to change equipment and skillset by a single action).

All of these only work out of combat or when and if you are interacting with bank/station/other. None of them do have any influence on combat gameplay.

Please give us a clear statement, whether the continued usage of addons like the ones mentioned above is endorsed by ZOS.
Edited by Leandor on July 28, 2015 8:57AM
  • KerinKor
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    I agree, this needs answering and not dealing with as your earlier thread was.
  • Leandor
    Leandor
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    I would seriously appreciate any kind of official statement on this. A simple "it's okay" or "it constitutes a circumvention of game mechanics that is not intended and will be blocked with the next major update. Until then, refrain from usage of these in order to prevent spurious bans" would be all right.
  • ZOS_MollyH
    Hi @Leandor ,

    Macros and addons that allow players to automate and perform multiple actions with a single keystroke is a violation of our Terms of Service. All examples you provided do fall under automation, and as such are not allowed via our Terms of Service.
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
    Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
    Staff Post
  • KerinKor
    KerinKor
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    So provide this facility as standard, stop making life more tedious than it already is for crafters!

    Stop pretending the crafting system is made "deep and meaningful" (as your pre-release hype-blog on crafting described it) by forcing players to mindlessly do this mindless chore, this is NOT 'playing the game'.
    Edited by KerinKor on July 30, 2015 5:34PM
  • Leandor
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    @ZOS_MollyH thank you for your confirmation. Since these addons are widely in use, may I ask you or one of your colleagues to make an official announcement in the Addon forum section to make authors and players aware of this change in policy?

    It would be highly unfair to ban players using these out of non knowledge for things that have been available and in use for a year or more.

    For completeness sake, I will also tag @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JasonLeavey and @ZOS_KaiSchober to get the community representatives in on this.
  • Leandor
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    @Ayantir, since this also concerns you, I tag you to make you aware of this topic.

    If anyone knows how to contact Roomba's author and the team that took over Wykkyd's tools, please do so. This needs to be spread around as quick as possible.
  • Leandor
    Leandor
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    I agree. It is what it is. This needs to be made public. May I ask you to make the addon community at esoui aware of this thread?
  • Leandor
    Leandor
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    I would also like to invite @ZOS_ChipHilseberg to this discussion as he seems to be largely responsible for the UI/Addon area.
  • driosketch
    driosketch
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    This is probably why you don't aways want to get rulings.
    Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
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  • Leandor
    Leandor
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    driosketch wrote: »
    This is probably why you don't aways want to get rulings.
    @driosketch And i kept quiet a long time. But after an incident which mentioning of on forums is forbidden, I needed the clarification for myself.
    Edited by Leandor on July 31, 2015 10:07PM
  • Splosh
    Splosh
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    Lol, Thank you Zenimax Support for clarification witch addons can cause harm.
    .....we recommend disabling all add-ons. Thank you for understanding.
  • Swarog
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    ZOS should remove API that allows TOS violation actions.
    Otherwise it's a trap for all fair players - you may use our API but we may ban you.
    $ Welcome to the new trade guild The Wolves. Our trader located in Wayrest. Join us! Send me mail or /tell to @swarog.
  • Swarog
    Swarog
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    Delete this post.
    Edited by Swarog on August 3, 2015 8:16AM
    $ Welcome to the new trade guild The Wolves. Our trader located in Wayrest. Join us! Send me mail or /tell to @swarog.
  • Leandor
    Leandor
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    Swarog wrote: »
    ZOS should remove API that allows TOS violation actions.
    Otherwise it's a trap for all fair players - you may use our API but we may ban you.
    Precisely. I hear more stories about it every day.

    Please make an announcement in the forums and in launcher to make people aware of your change in policy, @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JasonLeavey
  • Lettigall
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    ZOS_MollyH wrote: »
    Hi @Leandor ,

    Macros and addons that allow players to automate and perform multiple actions with a single keystroke is a violation of our Terms of Service. All examples you provided do fall under automation, and as such are not allowed via our Terms of Service.

    But this is still legal?
    Greetings *****,
    Thank you for contacting the Elder Scrolls Online. The use of macro's is perfectly legal. There is nothing wrong with using Macros, if you have a mouse or keyboard that can be set up with macro's and you wish to use them feel free. If you have any other questions or concerns please feel free to reply to this email.

    Warm Regards, Jon
    The Elder Scrolls Support Team.

    01/17/2015 06:03 PM


    If addon macros are illegal shouldn't same rule apply to mouse&keyboard macros?
    Some men just want to watch the world burn... I just want a cold beer!
  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    Seriously?

    I know you want constructive, but this is dumb zos.
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  • Leandor
    Leandor
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    @Lettigall please do not derail this topic. This is about addons that are created for the ZOS- provided addon API, thus something they (Zenimax) have a direct influence on. The case in point is that a restriction was placed retroactively and player base has not been properly informed.

    Please open a topic dedicated to your issue, in order to keep any and all official replies we receive here strictly on topic. Thanks for understanding.
  • Lettigall
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    Leandor wrote: »
    @Lettigall please do not derail this topic. This is about addons that are created for the ZOS- provided addon API, thus something they (Zenimax) have a direct influence on. The case in point is that a restriction was placed retroactively and player base has not been properly informed.

    Please open a topic dedicated to your issue, in order to keep any and all official replies we receive here strictly on topic. Thanks for understanding.

    You got your clarification, but @ZOS_MollyH mentioned macros and addons. And that answer is making confusion since it isn't specified if she meant only addon macros or all macros(including mouse&keyboard). It would be more informative that answer were given in 1 thread to avoid speculations.

    Note that response from support I received in February and it would be good to know if their attitude is changed in this time.
    Some men just want to watch the world burn... I just want a cold beer!
  • Leandor
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    Thanks mate. Really appreciate you letting me keep this thread single topic. :neutral:
  • lolo_01b16_ESO
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    @ZOS_MollyH Any chance that we get a positive list of all allowed addons? Up to now I thought that all addons that you could get on esoui would be allowed, but that seems not to be true.
  • ZOS_MollyH
    Greetings,

    Per our terms of service we do not provide support for any addons, which includes a list of "approved" addons.

    Our terms of service have always stated that automation is a violation of our TOS and CoC, and we do apologize for any misinformation that has been communicated previously.

    If you have specific questions regarding appropriate use, please feel free to contact support for further clarification!
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
    Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
    Staff Post
  • Swarog
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    ZOS_MollyH wrote: »
    ...automation is a violation of our TOS and CoC...
    Solution of this problem have to be supported by API restrictions, not just by the rules that can be accidentally violated.
    We are all walking by the edge using addons, which primary aim to automate something.
    I see just one comprehensive solution for now - not to use addons. But it's sounds insane.
    I do not want to break the law but I don't understand how to do that. Any addon may fall under restriction after it'll be updated and I'll even don't be notified about this.

    ZOS have to allow all addons and manage their policy via API restrictions. It will be simple, reliable and fair.

    ZOS should not ban us until good solution will be found.
    $ Welcome to the new trade guild The Wolves. Our trader located in Wayrest. Join us! Send me mail or /tell to @swarog.
  • Leandor
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    I do not understand the reluctance on ZOS' side. If they make this ruling, why not publish it so people using these addons since their creation (they existed at launch of PC version, partly) are made aware of this? The way it is now, the only people who could be banned for their use are the couple hundred who read this thread.

    Everyone else could rightly claim being uninformed. I am also kind of disappointed that none of the more prominent greens makes any announcement.

    If their API does allow automation, it is their fault if it gets used. Every update, there is tens of pages of changes and improvements to this API. If they do not condone addons like Roomba, why do they not change this API? Why do they make the players responsible and that in a way that they have to get punished before they learn about it?

    They only reply we got so far is by one of the forum moderators. I don't want to devalue your input @ZOS_MollyH, but I would like to hear from the responsible developer directly that this is ZOS' final ruling. AFAIK, that would be @ZOS_ChipHilseberg, but I tagged him before and got no response.

    Maybe it would help if this topic would be moved to the Addon section.
  • lolo_01b16_ESO
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    @ZOS_MollyH
    Well, thanks for clarification, it's the first time I see a ZoS member making a definite statement about the use of addons since I joined the forum in January 2014.

    Could you maybe post this in a more prominent place like the news section? I know it's not really something new, but I think all people should know how to deal with addons. As of now I assume that more than half of the people I met ingame use addons that allow some kind of automation and most of them won't read this thread and won't know that there is something wrong with the addons they use.
  • ZOS_MollyH
    Greetings,

    This information is available in the Code of Conduct and Terms of Service agreements that all players must read and agree to before entering the game. These rules have been in place since launch and restated in several threads since then.
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
    Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
    Staff Post
  • Swarog
    Swarog
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    @ZOS_MollyH

    Will you restrict API to prevent automation that violates TOS or COC?

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Demands / Threats]
    Edited by ZOS_Alex on August 4, 2015 4:56PM
    $ Welcome to the new trade guild The Wolves. Our trader located in Wayrest. Join us! Send me mail or /tell to @swarog.
  • Swarog
    Swarog
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    @ZOS_MollyH

    Answer my question, please.
    Tell us about plans to resolve current situation.
    $ Welcome to the new trade guild The Wolves. Our trader located in Wayrest. Join us! Send me mail or /tell to @swarog.
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