Veteran White-Gold Tower dungeon is not player friendly

Fat_Cat45 · July 2015

So veteran White-Gold tower, what an experience. All I can say is any non min/max group will never complete this dungeon.

Starts out, reach the first mob group. Notice an enemy with 500k health, we think it's simply a tanky enemy. Nope, this enemy heals all allies around it for about 3% their hp every second with a ground AoE heal. Takes us about 90 seconds to clear a mob group, not even some mini boss. Then we reach the first main boss.

The first main boss took the group over 3 hours to experiment, theorize, and attempt the clear. We wiped about 50 times, mainly from the jailing mechanic. We thought the player took too much damage while being jailed. Eventually we did get it and continued through the dungeon.

Then we met more mobs with the 500k hp enemies in them, which are extremely overpowered in their own right. AoE heal for allies in the area, which almost heals above any dps put through. And this heal can not be interrupted, it is a ground AoE centered on the enemy. Then the other type is a ranger with lethal arrow shots, or the 'tank' which takes about 1/3 damage from all sources for it's 500k health.

We decided to die to mobs and run passed them all while in spirit form. We then reached the next boss right, the 3 dragonknights. This fight was pretty balanced. Except for each of the 3 bosses being able to use a Dragonknight Standard every 15 seconds, which did about 13k per second each. Other than that, it was a great battle, deciding which to focus and which to kite. Took us about 4 tries to complete that fight.

So then we moved on, and decided to revive walk passed all enemies. Then we arrived at the Planar Inhibitor. This boss is ridiculous in its own right. Multiple mechanics, way too many mob spawns if the group is not reactive, and a DoT which does almost 5k per second at highest strength. Heat Stroke is the name of it, and it is ridiculous. Took us about 50 tries to beat it throughout 4 hours.

The dungeon was fun and extremely well done, but the scaling of it is simply too high for any group without a voice chat to complete effectively. We eventually found out the mechanics to the bosses, but any normal group would probably not have the persistence for it.

We reached the final boss and one of our party members consistently crashed during a new mechanic by Molag Kena. So we also couldn't find a dps replacement for this boss, so we had to call it quits there.

My first opinion of this is that no group of players who do not seriously play PvE will complete the dungeon in the near future. This dungeon stomped all over a group of 4 players who have completed Vet DSA in under and hour as well as Sanctum Ophidia hard mode. V16 gear and more champion passives aren't enough for more laid back players to fill the power gap for this dungeon.

Has anyone else passed the 1st boss too? Because at the moment I do not know anyone else outside of my group who has progressed at all in this dungeon

lolo_01b16_ESO · July 2015

So you managed to learn how to do the new endgame content within less than one day and still think it's too hard?
As dsa and trials won't scale to v16 I'm very happy to hear, that there is a dungeon that will require some days to learn the new mechanics untill I can do it on a regular basis.

Alcast · July 2015

Nice, some challnge finally.

Do you expect to walk through it the first time easy peasy? I hope ppl will die 100x times before they complete it.

If you dont wanna die go play lv 10 dungeons

Fat_Cat45 · July 2015

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

So you managed to learn how to do the new endgame content within less than one day and still think it's too hard?
As dsa and trials won't scale to v16 I'm very happy to hear, that there is a dungeon that will require some days to learn the new mechanics untill I can do it on a regular basis.

I'm not saying it's too hard for my playstyle or who i play with. I feel like the group I ran it with will be able to complete it with about 5-15 wipes next attempt. I'm saying it will most likely be too much to handle for pick up groups, or players who do not min/max their stats, almost forever. Sort of like SO but just a veteran dungeon, content accessible to more players because group size is 4 instead of 12

Fat_Cat45 · July 2015

/

Epona222 · July 2015

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

So you managed to learn how to do the new endgame content within less than one day and still think it's too hard?
As dsa and trials won't scale to v16 I'm very happy to hear, that there is a dungeon that will require some days to learn the new mechanics untill I can do it on a regular basis.

I'm not saying it's too hard for my playstyle or who i play with. I feel like the group I ran it with will be able to complete it with about 5-15 wipes next attempt. I'm saying it will most likely be too much to handle for pick up groups, or players who do not min/max their stats, almost forever. Sort of like SO but just a veteran dungeon, content accessible to more players because group size is 4 instead of 12

But there are people who want that difficulty of content and that steep learning curve of a new dungeon with new mechanics.

People who find it too difficult can go and do a non-vet pledge. I am a more casual player and I really enjoy doing those.

Given that most of the game is quite easy, why begrudge the hardcore element something that will be a bit more of a challenge?

Anlaemar · July 2015

Great news. Can't wait to try it out.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Sorry, but there is difference between hard content

and OP content that was made hard just with screwing around with numbers and add heals everywhere to artificiality increase difficulty.

Talek · July 2015

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

So you managed to learn how to do the new endgame content within less than one day and still think it's too hard?
As dsa and trials won't scale to v16 I'm very happy to hear, that there is a dungeon that will require some days to learn the new mechanics untill I can do it on a regular basis.

I'm not saying it's too hard for my playstyle or who i play with. I feel like the group I ran it with will be able to complete it with about 5-15 wipes next attempt. I'm saying it will most likely be too much to handle for pick up groups, or players who do not min/max their stats, almost forever. Sort of like SO but just a veteran dungeon, content accessible to more players because group size is 4 instead of 12

So? VDSA before nerfing all pve content in 1.6 was also out of reach for 90% of the players and impossible to do in pub group, it's big suprise for me that zeni decided to create challenging pve experience in this game ever again (if it's really true, i'm gonna try this in weekend) considering how easy content and boss mechanics need to be to complete it on consoles with their *** controller.

asteldian · July 2015

Most vet dungeons on first runs seem totally out of reach to the players-when vet CoA came out my group thouht we would never get it done, yet no surpise we can now do it speedrun and deathless. I am glad this one is a step up by the sounds of it. Normal is the everyday crowd, vet is for those striving to be better.

Nifty2g · July 2015

Good, I'm excited to try this dungeon out been a very long time since I've played with a group that has wiped on a dungeon before

R3DTHR3AT · July 2015

Pretty good dung, u can easily complete it with medium expirienced players.

Fecius · July 2015

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

So veteran White-Gold tower, what an experience. All I can say is any non min/max group will never complete this dungeon.

etc. etc.etc.

Man, it is Hard Mode for this Dungeon. It should be that way! If you are not good in PvE - you can expirience all story in normal mode. It's all the same story, etc. Yesterday we've made a normal run on template champs (we are EU). And it was compleatable. We haven't try Vet yet, but I guess i would be happy it will perform at least some challenge.

The Uninvited · July 2015

Sounds like a 4-player version of Sanctum! I like it and look forward to getting wiped 100 times before being able to complete it.

KiriX · July 2015

DON'T TOUCH TO DIFFICULT OF VET.MODE!!!

Fat_Cat45 · July 2015

Fecius wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

So veteran White-Gold tower, what an experience. All I can say is any non min/max group will never complete this dungeon.

etc. etc.etc.

Man, it is Hard Mode for this Dungeon. It should be that way! If you are not good in PvE - you can expirience all story in normal mode. It's all the same story, etc. Yesterday we've made a normal run on template champs (we are EU). And it was compleatable. We haven't try Vet yet, but I guess i would be happy it will perform at least some challenge.

Wait a second... So is there actually no difference between normal and vet versions?

Because then my entire post is irrelevant if normal is simply a scaled down version of vet.

I haven't gone through it on normal before

MissBizz · July 2015

Heh, yeah I was invited with a group to try out this dungeon. We didn't get past the first boss, but know what? I don't mind. I would actually be disappointed if on the PTS we completed the dungeon. It's exciting to have a dungeon where it's actually tough. Not going to lie, I'm not the greatest, but I think it's bad when a group of 3 guys can carry me through all the other dungeons (including Vet CoA when I wasn't at level yet). I like the idea it really takes 4 people to complete it, and isn't something you can complete easily the first time around.

As someone else mentioned above, I'm sure in no time we will all get the mechanics figured out and be doing speed runs.

yodased · July 2015

well hot damn I'm getting on the PTS tonight.

Dungeon Dwellers: mount up.

HeroOfNone · July 2015

yodased wrote: »

well hot damn I'm getting on the PTS tonight.

Dungeon Dwellers: mount up.

We were in there. The trash isn't hard if you recognize the heal mechanic and pull them away from the healer. The mobs can all one shot, almost even the tank, if they don't block a red attack (should scale it to make a single hit survivableI think). The first boss was a pain but the lag was worse. Healers took a while to get to you and the damage in the cage was a bit much with said lag, and it's almost easier to let a guy die and res rather than pick the lock. We'll be in there tonight again, bur might want to scale it down to get more accustomed to the mechanics and to deal with the PTS lag handicap

HeroOfNone · July 2015

Oh, and @animexhero21_ESO was there as well taking with Vivian & Crispy bacon on one run, and the @MissBizz and Valid on another run.

Fat_Cat45 · July 2015

I'm still trying to find out if the normal version of this dungeon is the same as vet, basically how dragonstar arena is.

Because if vet version is the same bosses/mechanics/story as normal then my post is now irrelevant, and nothing in the dungeon should be changed then (besides a few feedback suggestions I have).

timidobserver · July 2015

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

So veteran White-Gold tower, what an experience. All I can say is any non min/max group will never complete this dungeon.

Starts out, reach the first mob group. Notice an enemy with 500k health, we think it's simply a tanky enemy. Nope, this enemy heals all allies around it for about 3% their hp every second with a ground AoE heal. Takes us about 90 seconds to clear a mob group, not even some mini boss. Then we reach the first main boss.

The first main boss took the group over 3 hours to experiment, theorize, and attempt the clear. We wiped about 50 times, mainly from the jailing mechanic. We thought the player took too much damage while being jailed. Eventually we did get it and continued through the dungeon.

Then we met more mobs with the 500k hp enemies in them, which are extremely overpowered in their own right. AoE heal for allies in the area, which almost heals above any dps put through. And this heal can not be interrupted, it is a ground AoE centered on the enemy. Then the other type is a ranger with lethal arrow shots, or the 'tank' which takes about 1/3 damage from all sources for it's 500k health.

We decided to die to mobs and run passed them all while in spirit form. We then reached the next boss right, the 3 dragonknights. This fight was pretty balanced. Except for each of the 3 bosses being able to use a Dragonknight Standard every 15 seconds, which did about 13k per second each. Other than that, it was a great battle, deciding which to focus and which to kite. Took us about 4 tries to complete that fight.

So then we moved on, and decided to revive walk passed all enemies. Then we arrived at the Planar Inhibitor. This boss is ridiculous in its own right. Multiple mechanics, way too many mob spawns if the group is not reactive, and a DoT which does almost 5k per second at highest strength. Heat Stroke is the name of it, and it is ridiculous. Took us about 50 tries to beat it throughout 4 hours.

The dungeon was fun and extremely well done, but the scaling of it is simply too high for any group without a voice chat to complete effectively. We eventually found out the mechanics to the bosses, but any normal group would probably not have the persistence for it.

We reached the final boss and one of our party members consistently crashed during a new mechanic by Molag Kena. So we also couldn't find a dps replacement for this boss, so we had to call it quits there.

My first opinion of this is that no group of players who do not seriously play PvE will complete the dungeon in the near future. This dungeon stomped all over a group of 4 players who have completed Vet DSA in under and hour as well as Sanctum Ophidia hard mode. V16 gear and more champion passives aren't enough for more laid back players to fill the power gap for this dungeon.

Has anyone else passed the 1st boss too? Because at the moment I do not know anyone else outside of my group who has progressed at all in this dungeon

Go away. Every time something even remotely challenging is added to the game the whining starts until they make it trivial to complete. It is one day after beta launched. Is it really a problem that by the second day you haven't mastered the new dungeons.

SIN-X · July 2015

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

So veteran White-Gold tower, what an experience. All I can say is any non min/max group will never complete this dungeon.

Starts out, reach the first mob group. Notice an enemy with 500k health, we think it's simply a tanky enemy. Nope, this enemy heals all allies around it for about 3% their hp every second with a ground AoE heal. Takes us about 90 seconds to clear a mob group, not even some mini boss. Then we reach the first main boss.

The first main boss took the group over 3 hours to experiment, theorize, and attempt the clear. We wiped about 50 times, mainly from the jailing mechanic. We thought the player took too much damage while being jailed. Eventually we did get it and continued through the dungeon.

Then we met more mobs with the 500k hp enemies in them, which are extremely overpowered in their own right. AoE heal for allies in the area, which almost heals above any dps put through. And this heal can not be interrupted, it is a ground AoE centered on the enemy. Then the other type is a ranger with lethal arrow shots, or the 'tank' which takes about 1/3 damage from all sources for it's 500k health.

We decided to die to mobs and run passed them all while in spirit form. We then reached the next boss right, the 3 dragonknights. This fight was pretty balanced. Except for each of the 3 bosses being able to use a Dragonknight Standard every 15 seconds, which did about 13k per second each. Other than that, it was a great battle, deciding which to focus and which to kite. Took us about 4 tries to complete that fight.

So then we moved on, and decided to revive walk passed all enemies. Then we arrived at the Planar Inhibitor. This boss is ridiculous in its own right. Multiple mechanics, way too many mob spawns if the group is not reactive, and a DoT which does almost 5k per second at highest strength. Heat Stroke is the name of it, and it is ridiculous. Took us about 50 tries to beat it throughout 4 hours.

The dungeon was fun and extremely well done, but the scaling of it is simply too high for any group without a voice chat to complete effectively. We eventually found out the mechanics to the bosses, but any normal group would probably not have the persistence for it.

We reached the final boss and one of our party members consistently crashed during a new mechanic by Molag Kena. So we also couldn't find a dps replacement for this boss, so we had to call it quits there.

My first opinion of this is that no group of players who do not seriously play PvE will complete the dungeon in the near future. This dungeon stomped all over a group of 4 players who have completed Vet DSA in under and hour as well as Sanctum Ophidia hard mode. V16 gear and more champion passives aren't enough for more laid back players to fill the power gap for this dungeon.

Has anyone else passed the 1st boss too? Because at the moment I do not know anyone else outside of my group who has progressed at all in this dungeon

yes several players have.....by no means a majority but many have

Reverb · July 2015

Read the title about vet WGT not being player friendly and thought "I'm OK with that". Read the entire 0P, and I'm still OK with that.

DisgracefulMind · July 2015

I'm so okay with this being difficult. I know myself and several other players CRAVE harder content, and here it is.

Fat_Cat45 · July 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

Go away. Every time something even remotely challenging is added to the game the whining starts until they make it trivial to complete. It is one day after beta launched. Is it really a problem that by the second day you haven't mastered the new dungeons.

How am I complaining? I already completed the dungeon.

My opinion is that the power scale is too high for even a slightly uncoordinated group with gold v16 gear and over 500 champ points. Any mistake during a boss will result in a wipe 99% of the time, any. Just like Dark Souls series.

However like I said above, I'm still trying to find out if the normal version of this dungeon is similar to how Dragonstar Arena works (same layout, bosses, most mechanics, plot between normal and vet). Because if that is true then the dungeon is fine how it is now, just a much much harder version of normal. But I still have yet to find this out.

My concern is a large majority of players won't be able to experience the continuation of the story and the plot, similar to how the normal/vet versions of all previous dungeons work (only if the above is not true).

timidobserver · July 2015

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Go away. Every time something even remotely challenging is added to the game the whining starts until they make it trivial to complete. It is one day after beta launched. Is it really a problem that by the second day you haven't mastered the new dungeons.

How am I complaining? I already completed the dungeon.

My opinion is that the power scale is too high for even a slightly uncoordinated group with gold v16 gear and over 500 champ points. Any mistake during a boss will result in a wipe 99% of the time, any. Just like Dark Souls series.

However like I said above, I'm still trying to find out if the normal version of this dungeon is similar to how Dragonstar Arena works (same layout, bosses, most mechanics, plot between normal and vet). Because if that is true then the dungeon is fine how it is now, just a much much harder version of normal. But I still have yet to find this out.

My concern is a large majority of players won't be able to experience the continuation of the story and the plot, similar to how the normal/vet versions of all previous dungeons work.

You are two levels off the cap and have none of the new sets or max level gear. The fact that you completed it at all on day 1 of beta means it is fine.

Maddux · July 2015

Im actually streaming our Trys in the White Gold Tower. Language is German but you can get some Impresions from the Dungeon and mute the Stream if you dont like the german Language

The Uninvited · July 2015

Damn, what's that MetalBlacky guy smoking?

ZoM_Head · July 2015

Tanked it with sucess twice today in normal mode.

Vet mode...virtually impossible on the harvester with all those adds and stam regen issues....

Manoekin · July 2015

Casuals