Dedicated Tel Var Stone System Feedback Thread

Menelaos · July 2015

If ZOS wants players to lose 100% of their TV stones to other players killing them, they are under obligation to provide a lag-free and exploit-free PVP zone. If they don't there will always be people being very vocal about risk/reward; and they will be rightly vocal.

Zyle · July 2015

My experience: I was able to get about 30 minutes of lag free PTS in a group of 4, assuming it was because not a lot of people had finished downloading at the time. That was mostly spent exploring, running into random bosses, until we decided to leave the sewers. We were lag-free for a couple minutes, then we ran into a 15-20 man AD group in the "Arena" area. 2 of us crashed immediately, the other 2 of us were hunted down by the AD group and lagged to death. Once the two of us were able to load back in, we were both dead.

My thoughts: I can lose 100% of my stones in lag-free PvP and not be upset. I can lose 1% of my stones because of laggy PvP and be incredibly upset. If you guys can fix the lag and promote smaller groups, this will be gold. If it goes live and is destroyed by lag, no one will want to enter IC, and the few people that do go and farm gear will make millions. I don't even want to think about pledges in IC if it will be this laggy.

Very cool idea ZOS, just please...please implement it correctly.

PS: Holy vigor spam, batman!

Zahne · July 2015

I am disappointed that so many players decided that 'testing' means camping the doors as people come in and nothing else

Enodoc · July 2015

Zahne wrote: »

I am disappointed that so many players decided that 'testing' means camping the doors as people come in and nothing else

However, if that behaviour has been revealed through testing, ZOS may be able to do something about it before launch (if it is counter to what they were intending). For example, they could put a five-metre PvP dead zone around the doors, or a 20-second PvP immunity to someone who has just come through it.

dsalter · July 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Zahne wrote: »

I am disappointed that so many players decided that 'testing' means camping the doors as people come in and nothing else

However, if that behaviour has been revealed through testing, ZOS may be able to do something about it before launch (if it is counter to what they were intending). For example, they could put a five-metre PvP dead zone around the doors, or a 20-second PvP immunity to someone who has just come through it.

or do what i said previously, 4-8 invincible guards that hit very hard that see stealth circled around the spawn with enough breathing space of about one calatrops AoE, so to get into snipe range would get the guards to grip you in and talons you.

Cuyler · July 2015

I spent about an hour killing npcs with a bunch of others in the sewers until I acquired about 500 stones. I was just looking around mostly and getting a feel for the nerf to set bonuses and my DK specifically when I stumbled across one of the ladders to the ? district.

Not knowing where I was I took a look at my map when all of a sudden a DC player came down the ladder. He/she didn't see me and I took advantage killing them and looting ~900 stones. I immediately felt horrible as I realized I unwittingly spawn ganked this player for a sizable TV stone payout.

Point is, this took zero effort.....was not a challenge....yet....was rewarding.

Moving up the ladder to the IC proper I crashed...relog...que...run back...waded through sewers....ladder...crash again...repeat ad infinitum....Finally just as I gave up on IC proper, in a twist of karmic justice I was ganked upon spawning into the sewers and lost all my stones...

Respawned...a little disenchanted, went back to killing the npc mobs...engage mini-boss and was ganked at the last second by an EP player waiting in stealth as the npcs wittled my HP down....lost stones again. Totally disenchanted at that point, I logged back to live.

Suggestions:
1. Find a way to eliminate spawn ganking at every spawn location. (this has always been super lame) or make tv stones unlootable within a certain radius of a spawn spot.
2. Make it so an enemy player must do more damage than the npcs to receive any TV stone payout.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · July 2015

Zahne wrote: »

I am disappointed that so many players decided that 'testing' means camping the doors as people come in and nothing else

ZOS is encouraging this bad player behavior with the 100 % looting of the TV stones. It is as bad as the AP farming. I don't think that dropping the percentage to 50 % is going to save it. With the VR15-16 mats only obtained from the IC, there is really no need to level as the prices are going to be through the roof.

I tried to explore the IC for three hours last night but I crashed so very often. I then tried to get a group for the white gold tower, but no one wanted to do the dungeons.

I loved the way the city looked, but between the lag, crashes and gankers, it was unenjoyable. I only was able to bank a few stones due to it being before the majority of the players being able to finish downloading.

Why ZOS wants to encourage griefing which is against their own rules, I will never understand. Yes, purposely ganking is griefing in my opinion.

Pangnirtung · July 2015

Zahne wrote: »

I am disappointed that so many players decided that 'testing' means camping the doors as people come in and nothing else

I don't like it but this is part of testing. It ruins the game.

Maybe it will be acted upon come the release?

I would happily see uber griefing and ganking on the PTS if it means a more playable game is released a month later.

OtarTheMad · July 2015

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

Zahne wrote: »

I am disappointed that so many players decided that 'testing' means camping the doors as people come in and nothing else

ZOS is encouraging this bad player behavior with the 100 % looting of the TV stones. It is as bad as the AP farming. I don't think that dropping the percentage to 50 % is going to save it. With the VR15-16 mats only obtained from the IC, there is really no need to level as the prices are going to be through the roof.

I tried to explore the IC for three hours last night but I crashed so very often. I then tried to get a group for the white gold tower, but no one wanted to do the dungeons.

I loved the way the city looked, but between the lag, crashes and gankers, it was unenjoyable. I only was able to bank a few stones due to it being before the majority of the players being able to finish downloading.

Why ZOS wants to encourage griefing which is against their own rules, I will never understand. Yes, purposely ganking is griefing in my opinion.

The goods news is with all this feedback they will probably change things pretty quick.

I love most of everything about this new update except this. Be interesting to see how they adjust going forward.

ZOS_RichLambert · July 2015

MissBizz wrote: »

@kaithuzar You don't really lose Tel Var stones in the dungeons. Your death recap tells you that, and once I noticed I took note of my TV count, and after I died, I checked again, and still had the same amount. As mentioned in ESO live you don't gain or lose stones in the dungeons, but I really hope the UI for the recap gets fixed so it doesn't make you think you are anymore.

This is indeed a UI bug and has been fixed.

Enodoc · July 2015

dsalter wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Zahne wrote: »

I am disappointed that so many players decided that 'testing' means camping the doors as people come in and nothing else

However, if that behaviour has been revealed through testing, ZOS may be able to do something about it before launch (if it is counter to what they were intending). For example, they could put a five-metre PvP dead zone around the doors, or a 20-second PvP immunity to someone who has just come through it.

or do what i said previously, 4-8 invincible guards that hit very hard that see stealth circled around the spawn with enough breathing space of about one calatrops AoE, so to get into snipe range would get the guards to grip you in and talons you.

I'll need to find out for myself how this all works, but I see your idea working well for the alliance-"safe" spawn points, but not really for the all-alliance doors.

Menelaos · July 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

For example, they could put a five-metre PvP dead zone around the doors, or a 20-second PvP immunity to someone who has just come through it.

They could also give the Sanctuary Flag buff/debuff they use on balconys and place these at or around zone doors.

takai.kurosawab14_ESO · July 2015

I'm pretty sure this has been beaten into the ground a few million times, but I'm going to say it again: Trying to keep Telvar Stones sucks.

Obtaining a few stones from killing NPCs (which may take a while if you're a healer main like me so you're not DPS oriented) will get you ambushed and completely gutted in less than thirty seconds by a lone sneaking player whose burst damage annihilates your health, rendering all your hard work futile.

I thought I could get away with nabbing 20-30 stones at a time and then banking them as quickly as I could would be a good idea, but I found out that you need a minimum of 50 to bank them at a time. This saddened me at first, then infuriated me when the 29 telvar stones I had were all taken not even two minutes later when I was insta-killed by a ganker sitting right outside the respawn points in the city.

I'm extremely frustrated that you can lose 100% of your telvar stones so quickly and so easily to zergs and gank squads and there's nothing to prevent them from completely obliterating you as you walk through. Yes I understand it's a PVP environment, but the risk is so extremely high for what little reward we get, especially considering how expensive the new materials are (last I remember it was 100 Telvar stones for 1 crafting material).

Imperial City is a ganker's paradise and a nightmare for those who aren't spec'd for the highest burst DPS in the game.

Enodoc · July 2015

Menelaos wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

For example, they could put a five-metre PvP dead zone around the doors, or a 20-second PvP immunity to someone who has just come through it.

They could also give the Sanctuary Flag buff/debuff they use on balconys and place these at or around zone doors.

I don't think I know of this Sanctuary buff on balconies... is that keep balconies? What does it do and when does it appear?

takai.kurosawab14_ESO · July 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Menelaos wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

For example, they could put a five-metre PvP dead zone around the doors, or a 20-second PvP immunity to someone who has just come through it.

They could also give the Sanctuary Flag buff/debuff they use on balconys and place these at or around zone doors.

I don't think I know of this Sanctuary buff on balconies... is that keep balconies? What does it do and when does it appear?

Sanctuary buffs appear in quest-specific areas that are flagged as non-PVP, to prevent players from ganking each other as they're trying to complete a quest in the IC.

However, the balconies of the respawn locations and crafting stations (in nobles district for example) are not flagged as non-PVP and thus do not give a sanctuary buff.

WhiskeyJac · July 2015

I lost 1100 stones in one go

, but it was fun so no problem there , but the gear we are aiming for are very situational , cast a certain spell , do this many attacks etc doesn't feel powerful at all.

wraith808 · July 2015

The 100% loss rate is mitigated by the speed at which you get them (a happy surprise). But I'm of a mixed mind about the equal split of the gained stones. I think it would definitely change the battleground (no pun intended) if the stones went to the kill shot. That way, gank squads would have a harder time justifying their existence. Reminds me sort of like the RPG Bushido where the Budo went to the killer. It definitely promotes the splitting of parties.

Also, we definitely need an immunity on zoning in. Nothing can be done about crashes, unfortunately, but zoning in is an easy fix that should be implemented IMO.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Two things I didn't like.

1) I don't like the insta-aquistion of Tel Var stones. I had no idea how many I got from a mob, a boss, or a player. I know there is the counter on the bottom right, but without actually seeing them in a loot screen, it was not easy to get a general sense of how many I had or how fast I was acquiring them. Especially is a fast paced and frenetic environment of the IC.

2) I think players should actually have to loot defeated players to acquire the Tel Var stones. As it is, one of the most infuriating ways to die is to be sniped by someone who stays at maximum range and targets you when you are not in a position to fight back. I get it this is legit in war, but there is a reason why in the Middle Ages, archers prisoners had their hands cut off (if not outright killed) and snipers are often put up against a wall and shot in contravention of the Geneva Codes. People should not just automatically get a windfall of hundreds or thousands of Tel Var stones from just getting a kill, but they should have to at least approach the corpse and fight for the reward.

QFT. I agree with BOTH of these points so much that I had to quote it. It would also be... interesting... if the looting was on a timer when started- it takes X seconds to search and loot the body. It is quite common in war that casualties occur while looting bodies. Replicating that risk wouldn't be out of place, IMO.

Dagoth_Rac · July 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

The 100% loss rate is mitigated by the speed at which you get them (a happy surprise). But I'm of a mixed mind about the equal split of the gained stones. I think it would definitely change the battleground (no pun intended) if the stones went to the kill shot. That way, gank squads would have a harder time justifying their existence. Reminds me sort of like the RPG Bushido where the Budo went to the killer. It definitely promotes the splitting of parties.

Also, we definitely need an immunity on zoning in. Nothing can be done about crashes, unfortunately, but zoning in is an easy fix that should be implemented IMO.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Two things I didn't like.

1) I don't like the insta-aquistion of Tel Var stones. I had no idea how many I got from a mob, a boss, or a player. I know there is the counter on the bottom right, but without actually seeing them in a loot screen, it was not easy to get a general sense of how many I had or how fast I was acquiring them. Especially is a fast paced and frenetic environment of the IC.

2) I think players should actually have to loot defeated players to acquire the Tel Var stones. As it is, one of the most infuriating ways to die is to be sniped by someone who stays at maximum range and targets you when you are not in a position to fight back. I get it this is legit in war, but there is a reason why in the Middle Ages, archers prisoners had their hands cut off (if not outright killed) and snipers are often put up against a wall and shot in contravention of the Geneva Codes. People should not just automatically get a windfall of hundreds or thousands of Tel Var stones from just getting a kill, but they should have to at least approach the corpse and fight for the reward.

QFT. I agree with BOTH of these points so much that I had to quote it. It would also be... interesting... if the looting was on a timer when started- it takes X seconds to search and loot the body. It is quite common in war that casualties occur while looting bodies. Replicating that risk wouldn't be out of place, IMO.

I was kind of shocked that they added corpse looting that does not require, ya know, looting the corpse! That is part of the typical risk/reward of a corpse looting PvP style of game. Auto-magically having the loot transfer from the corpse to some player 50 meters away is lame. Want a sky-high KDR? Gank away. Want my stuff? Come get it, coward!

Menelaos · July 2015

takai.kurosawab14_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Menelaos wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

For example, they could put a five-metre PvP dead zone around the doors, or a 20-second PvP immunity to someone who has just come through it.

They could also give the Sanctuary Flag buff/debuff they use on balconys and place these at or around zone doors.

I don't think I know of this Sanctuary buff on balconies... is that keep balconies? What does it do and when does it appear?

Sanctuary buffs appear in quest-specific areas that are flagged as non-PVP, to prevent players from ganking each other as they're trying to complete a quest in the IC.

However, the balconies of the respawn locations and crafting stations (in nobles district for example) are not flagged as non-PVP and thus do not give a sanctuary buff.

Yes, I got that mixed up. They appear in the IC zones crafting stations and one of them (at least) has an accessible balcony. But what was said: They essentially block PVP but not PVE.

KayleeSeranada · July 2015

I was in the kitchen, thinking about the ideas/concerncs/etc. addressed in this thread, and an idea occurred to me that I think has really good potential:

What if there was a system implemented that lets the player decide how many TV stones they will lose? Of course, to balance the risk-reward, this same number would also be the maximum percentage of stones that they player could loot from both mobs and players.

What I'm imagining is maybe a slider, from 0-100. The player could pop it to 100 and get the full experience from the IC just as it is now - good TV stone drop rates, high thrill PVP content, and the high risk-reward that the IC expansion was designed to have.
More cautious players, though, could set it to just 50 or so. This would ensure that they keep 50% of their stones on death. The trade-off would come in the way that they would then only be allowed to loot up to 50% of stones from other players, and their mob drop rate would also be cut in half. So basically, they'd collect stones more slowly, but would have more security over them.
This system also caters to crafters or content tourists: they can just plop their bar to 0 and comfortably make their way over to a crafting station or to a district without having to worry about playing the meta right that moment.

With this system, players can choose their own risk-reward and it would ensure that it would be constantly balanced out for *every* player, giving us an overall better experience, and giving ZOS a more accessible DLC package (and more thus more sales).

I don't feel comfortable with the suggestions of just dropping the loot rate to 50% because it just feels like you're paying for a trip to the bank at that point, and it unbalances the risk-reward. This system, however, keeps it in check while simultaneously making the game more accessible to a wider range of players. Furthermore, this system fits well with the goals of the current system (to make a high-risk, adrenaline-pumping PVP experience) and still favours the more intense PVP'ers who would put their slider to 100 since they would get that nervous feeling while respawning when they go to check their TV stone amount to see if they have any dignity left to bank, not knowing if the got killed by someone who looted 20% of their stones or all of them, but giving them a chance to not have lost all of them.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · July 2015

KayleeSeranada wrote: »

I was in the kitchen, thinking about the ideas/concerncs/etc. addressed in this thread, and an idea occurred to me that I think has really good potential:

What if there was a system implemented that lets the player decide how many TV stones they will lose? Of course, to balance the risk-reward, this same number would also be the maximum percentage of stones that they player could loot from both mobs and players.
<snip>.

Just put in a toggle so that people that don't enjoy a player loot system can turn it off. Then they cannot loot other players, cannot be looted and they should also not get the multiplication bonus for having lots of stones in their inventory.

That way people who want to excitement and high risk can do it and people who hate the entire concept but still like pvp can have fun in IC too.

It also prevent griefers from having fun at the expense of others because all the people they can loot will be people who enjoy the risk and therefore they do not feeling griefed if they lose their stones.

It will ensure that all have fun on their own terms and prevent the poisoning of our community that the current system will cause.

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO · July 2015

One issue I didn't really anticipate with the TV stone system...is guilt. After hours on my DK in the city I wanted to gank a little on my nightblade. First guy I came across was soloing some of the mobs, which I thought impressive given how easily I was getting killed earlier. I was torn between what to do, because I know he was having fun and gaining stones, and I had the power to just completely ruin his day right now, knowing I'd get all he'd been working for. In the end, I decided to wait until he finished fighting and stalked him until his health was back to 100%, then attacked. I won, and I still felt bad. I don't want my games to make me feel guilty for playing them lol

Sentinel · July 2015

I spent quite a few hours scouring around the sewers with a few friends, mostly exploring and accepting the challenges.

One thing that I enjoy a lot from the Tel Var system is the feeling of anxiety and the point when you get to about 500 stones where all you can think of is turning around and sneaking back. We had quite a few PvP encounters in the sewers, most of ours was dedicated to avoidance of them (when we were outnumbered), and ambushing like sized groups when we found them.

Overall during the night, I must have lost about 200 stones due to PvP player deaths

I gained closer to 500 due to player kills

And Overall with PvP and PvE, by the end of the night I had 2300 TVs banked.

I really enjoy the system so far. The rewards are much better for small groups than larger groups, but I don't think the incentive to have a small group always outweighs the large groups.

(I was ganked only once during the whole night. I had radiant magelight on me, but as it seems to many of the players about here, there might need to be more incentives towards small group fighting, less to ganking and zerging).

NobleNerd · July 2015

My suggestion for the TV Stone system is....

Have it start out at a smaller %... like about 15% drop if killed. Then if you continue to stay out in the PvP zones and are killed with in x amount of time it increases to 25%. There is still a risk/reward feature, but it makes it more enticing for players to chance their stay each time. For those who don't die easy even make a time limit to the % increase... so for every 30 min in the PvP zones the % can increase creating a greater risk.

Having it at 100% all the time is very disheartening for me personally. I was able to bank 200 stones and lost well over 2000 in my 2-3 hour play time last night.

*I was playing in a group the whole time. Being in a group does not guarantee you will keep those stones!

Takuto · July 2015

I think that rather than the flat percentage of stones lost there should be a sort of progressive tax on them. Such that it increases based on the amount you are carrying, from say 25-75%.

My example equation is as follows, where N is the number of stones you are holding:
N*0.25 +MAX(0,(N-100))*0.25 + MAX(0,(N-1000))*0.25

This means that you lose:
25% of first 100
50% of next 900
75% of any above 1000

Laplace · July 2015

Something needs to be done about gate camping. There's guilds camping the gates and making the zone practically inaccessible to other players. You can literally be killed due to loading screens. And that's not even getting into the unplayable levels of lag and latency.

Halke · July 2015

Menelaos wrote: »

takai.kurosawab14_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Menelaos wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

For example, they could put a five-metre PvP dead zone around the doors, or a 20-second PvP immunity to someone who has just come through it.

They could also give the Sanctuary Flag buff/debuff they use on balconys and place these at or around zone doors.

I don't think I know of this Sanctuary buff on balconies... is that keep balconies? What does it do and when does it appear?

Sanctuary buffs appear in quest-specific areas that are flagged as non-PVP, to prevent players from ganking each other as they're trying to complete a quest in the IC.

However, the balconies of the respawn locations and crafting stations (in nobles district for example) are not flagged as non-PVP and thus do not give a sanctuary buff.

Yes, I got that mixed up. They appear in the IC zones crafting stations and one of them (at least) has an accessible balcony. But what was said: They essentially block PVP but not PVE.

Wait, how do they not block PvE for you? When I was on respawns or on balconies I couldn't cast anything, I had that blue silenced aura around me. Since my stealth is cloaking, being fully silenced like that made it hard to get away from the gankers.

jcaceresw · July 2015

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

I lost 84, 14, 10, 4, 10, stones to a group of about 6 players running in circles around the inside of the Arboretum, I killed players got a few stones got killed lost stones, but it seem like players are already sizing up where to gank from, also camping the drop down, also players ganking at the sewer entrance waiting for people coming in with stones to bank.

I think might want to re-consider losing all the stones. Plus what about crashing issues, the client is not stable enough for players to be looted, bad enough you lose all the stones in combat but crash and return you just gave some one free stones and that kinda sucks.

I agree on all this. Had multiple crashes and AD people are ganking everyone in groups of 5-10 persons. They are near every entrance.

Instead of losing TV, I think they should be earned like AP do. To compensate, you can:

a) increase the cost of items on the TV vendors or remove/lower the multiplier
b) killing players or completing quests inside IC should not give AP
c) you can only get TV from completing quests and killing mobs. Bosses should give more TV.
d) The two new dungeons should give TV too

Docmandu · July 2015

Incredible... how STUPID are these people in designing this.. if spawn camping is possible, IT WILL BE DONE.

Antirob · July 2015

The stone sets need to be available in all armor types